Its important to rememer the Hertiage G12M20 and Greenback Reissue G12M25 are reissues of different vintage Greebacks . The Greenback started out as the G12M20 and later became the G12M25 and both versions sound different . The G12M20s were made from 1965 to mid 1968 then spec and design changes were made in mid 68 such as changing the Voice coil formers and making changes to the doping . The 2 modern Greeback G12M reissues are representing different vintage Greenaback models . The differences you hear between these 2 reissues is in line with the differences you would hear between the 2 vintage versions
As an owner of original greenbacks (pre-Rola) I can say with hand on heart the Chinese one sounds nothing like an original. The heritage is quite close.
Ones that have aged have a tone from time and material, but likley don't even sound like one back in the 60s at time of production. The heritage is a tone reproduction of what you hear from an already old speaker.
Best comparison video of these speakers EVER! Thank you so much! I'm swapping the standard Greenback for a Heritage in my Z Wreck Jr. This week! The standard Greenback in this amp is just too "fizzy" and bright to my ears. Your comparison video confirmed what I've been hearing.
Thanks for the effort to put this together. The standard GB sounds great in an AC 30. The heritage does sound a little more full bodied, but not different enough to make me want to swap them out. Please keep the speaker comparison videos coming.
In the video I prefer the heritage, in my room I much prefer the Chinese though. There's a great video that Metropoulos did many years ago and in that video the Chinese was the closest to the real thing that he had. Great work as always Joe!
I agree with everything you said about the "eq differences" between those two speakers. The only time where i can say that one was better than the other was when you did the clean sound. In that instance the Heritage was "better", at least for me. I don't think one is better than the other BUT i think that they complement each other spectacularly and i really enjoyed the sound of both togheter.
It's nice to truly hear the difference. Thank you my friend . I'm using 2 g12m heritages and 2 greenback 25's tag says made in England on the normal greenback. Both sets are new and im experimenting with placement of each in the cab . The cab is a mesa oversized rectifier cab. I'm learning how much difference speakers make. I've tried quite a few different celestions in my marshall 1960b cab. It's so interesting to hear the differences
Thank you, Joe. My guitarist will be shopping for greenbacks soon for a homemade 2x12 so I liked & shared this video. Actually, I'm thinking that one of each wired in parallel would be ideal, I find that paralleling identical speakers exagerates the nonlinearity of the frequency response, but if the drivers are different then they may compliment each other electrically as well as acoustically.
Great comparison!! Really helpful!! …I’ve taken the plunge and ordered the Chinese version. From your comparison, I preferred the ‘less thick’ mids for the tone I’m looking for. A surprising difference, but both great sounding speakers!
I think that volume is a significant factor that’s often overlooked - I have a 4x12 with the Chinese speakers that I recently swapped out for the heritage - at low volume the heritage lack sparkle at the top and are a bit woolly at the bottom, a bit uninspiring maybe, while the Chinese are the reverse, maybe a bit fuzzy at the top but overall quite balanced and good to play with - when cranking the volume right up though the heritage are absolutely glorious, the detail emerges at the top end and the low end grabs your bowels, by comparison the Chinese speakers are hard to listen to for long periods without some ear fatigue, depending what you play they can be a bit shrill and are definitely fizzy. Clearly it’s very subjective and I’d recommend trying them out in store with different styles and at different volumes, and insist on turning them up! Go with your ears in the room and certainly don’t buy based on what you hear on RU-vid through phone speakers
Thanks Mike :) I was surprised just _how_ much thinner the standard Chinese one sounded. Is your experience that they sound closer to each other than they did in this vid?
i had all of them .the chinese was shrill tone.the heritage uk was kind of flat no response to the strings .still sounded ok.then i tried the original g12m from 1972 .and it stayed in the cab 6 years on now.no change .amazing tone and feel and response.it makes any guitar alive and as you kind of coming out from the speaker cone.cant xplain it.but there is a magic there in these cones.i was lucky to find nother g12m from 1972 mint unplayed and that went in the vault .the price of the original is crazy but its worth every penny.i dont think i can play another speaker.im in trouble .
I agree with what you said,when you ran em both together they complemented each other. I have a framus 4x12 cab,w/ 2 greenbacks and 2 vintage 30's(diagonal)& it's probably the best sounding cab I've ever owned, or heard for that matter..ta
Hi Joe, before you even finished the intro I rushed to check which version I had in my 1974x combo. I was pleased to discover it has the 'Made in England' version. At this point I am unaware of the tonal differences between the two and yet I remain content. I've had this amp for a few years and I like the sound of it. So, pressing the 'play' arrow, I await to be entertained and determined not to like the Chinese interloper. 😂 Update: OK, so I can definitely see a place for the thinner sounding import. It depends how much 'thump' or thickness you want in the sound. I always say "better to have and not need". You can always eq out the low end, but if it's not there in the first place...
Hi Kevin - Celestion say their 'standard' G12M is now made in the UK again, so that might be what you have. I'm not sure anybody ever fitted these Heritage reissues to amps as standard (especially Marshall), but I could be wrong on that!! You're absolutely right - I too think it's better to EQ things out that drastically boost frequencies; I think things tend to sound less 'artificial' like that. :-)
Marshall fitted the Heritage Series G12M into their handwired re-issue of the "Bluesbreaker" combo, right from 2005 (ish) when it was launched. The Heritage Series G12H(55) went into the 4x12 that was part of the same range.
The difference is smaller after a few years of use. I still prefer the chinese version in a two-channel amp with a Fender clean channel. In a 2*12, it pairs well with an Eminence CV-75.
Thank you for this video Joe - It's very useful to me as I recently purchased some heritage G12Ms, intending to put them in an old AC30 which has old G12M 'blackbacks' that sound like "you really got me" by the kinks.. as soon as I've got the amp serviced. The intention was to replace these with the closest sounding modern alternatives that are actually working correctly. In the mean time I put them in my Zilla 2x12 that I use with my AC50 (Celestion advised me not to worry about the 20 watt power handling with a 50 watt rig). I think since your Z-wreck is quite AC30 like, what I have established is - the heritage are a great choice for my old AC30 - but the AC50 is just naturally much darker and thicker sounding amp than the AC30, so it would probably benefit more from the classic series greenbacks instead.
Great to hear that it was a useful video Matt :-) Yep, I've heard that even though they say '20-Watts' (because that's what the very earliest ones were) they're actually rated at 25W, so likely fine with your AC50. The Heritage is definitely a thicker sounding speaker, so with an AC30 would be good at filling out the sound (I loved how it sounded in the Z-Wreck, even though I usually use Alnico speakers with it!) But yes, for a darker thicker amp the 'standard' G12M is probably much more suited. Really glad the vid helped with that choice :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic I guess this goes to show just how relative all this stuff is, because I definitely prefer the heritage over the standards in general, but I can imagine the standard series would be a bit more balance in my closed back cab that I use for the AC50, and as such, preferable for that particular rig. the heritages work fine but I think the classics would help to balance things out a bit better relative to the voicing of the amp. Of course part of me thinks I should keep the heritages in the cab, (I can then use them with a bunch of other amps too!), and splash out on a pair of reissue alnico blues for the AC30 to get it closer to "vintage correct" specification ;)
I agree about the EQ emphasis that you pointed out. I don't know about which sounds more like an old Sixties or early Seventies Greenback. The made-in-UK one, most likely. I think it's kinda unlikely that new Greenbacks are sounding like the originals from before the original cone manufacturer, Pulsonic, suffered a fire at their factory and the design and composition were lost. (Late 1973.) I've never heard any speakers from anyone that were able to recreate that sound. (Maybe it's just that _I_ haven't heard them.) However, there are many great-sounding speakers out there, and many come fairly close. Maybe check out Johan Segeborn's channel for lots of info and comparos and nerdy detail on this stuff.
The mic stand on the left is touching the speaker cab. This introduces more vibrations to that mic which means that the test isn't truly accurate. That said, I own both these speakers and they are slightly different.
@@JoePerkinsMusic similar. The Chinese GB's are more open and sparse in the top end. The Heritage GB's are tighter and Woodier in the upper mids and tops. I do prefer the Heritage but I'd bet most guitarist would pick it if not told. On a 4x12 cab the order you place the speakers also affects the sound. It's a complicated process.
I've owned both (as well as many other Celestions) and the only one of the two I have now is the Heritage. The Chinese one had a different EQ as heard here but the main thing was it's fatiguing to listen to over time... and didn't make you want to keep playing.
FWIIW I had an early 90's UK made GB and between that and more recent chinese made ones I've played the UK definitely had "it".It was warmer but not dull,there was sparkle at the end just the upper mids were more relaxed and the lower mids shone.I now own a US made Mojotone BV25 and I'd say it's somewhere in the middle between the Chinese and UK made GB but with a little fuller/tighter low end.The highs/upper mids are a little more present than the UK but not as much as the Chinese made.I really prefer the Mojotone version and the UK version.Who knows,with more breaking in the Chinese could sound as good?
Yeah definitely the UK celestion speaker sounds better it's a lot smoother and is raggedy and sizzley on the high end. It sounded like the EQ could have been turned up a little bit on the highs frequencies of the amplifier which would have made the uk greenback sound clearer.😊
The Heritage G12M is a 20W speaker and the standard G12M is a 25W so they are really not the same speaker. The ones made in China is done with the same parts and with the same manufacturing process. They even shipped the machines over to China. I much prefer the sound of the 25W. I think the 20W has a honkier sound when playing with distortion.
Don't quote me on this (check with Celestion!) but I _believe_ the Heritage is a 25W speaker too - it's just labelled as 20W for vintage accuracy in the graphics.
@@JoePerkinsMusic According to Celestion the Heritage is rated as a 20W speaker but can be used as a 25W without problem. However it has a different construction and a different tone. So you can’t really compare them. It’s more wich you like best.
Heritage for sure. Question though, were you recording both speakers at the same time even though different mics? If so, would not each mic pick up some ambience of the other speaker?
They were running together, but I did tests on the bleed before shooting the video and it was _SO_ minimal - zero audible difference to the close-mic recordings of each speaker.
I wouldn't have the foggiest what a vintage Greenback is supposed to sound like... but I'm finding myself unable to hate the Chinese 😳 it is a lot harsher, but I'm more into high-gain metal stuff so I'm thinking about all the possibilities of getting even bite-ier distortion out of it. I only found this video because I was looking up the Peavey 112-6 1x12, which comes with a Chinese Greenback, and wanted to know how different it was to the UK version... which is, to say, *very*, but at least it doesn't seem to categorically suck as much as the Chinese V30!
Sometimes " trashy" isn't the worst quality, but the improved harmonic depth is very noticeable on the Heritage. Both qualities at once would seem ideal. TBH , I wouldn't have expected such a profound difference.Either way,- and I hate patronizing Chinese product,- it's a great design.
What year is the speaker that is made in China? Celestion improved the quality of their speakers coming out of China considerably around 2022. It would be helpful to know if this is older than that
Hate to say, Joe, but give the post 2018 made in UK G12M reissue a try. I compared one to the G12M Heritage and I found the reissue thicker and yet more open sounding. Quite the contrary to what I hear here 😄.
The Heritage can't be an exact copy of the original 60s and early 70s Greens because the Heritage speakers use different cones . The originals had Pulsonic cones but those are no longer Available because the Pulsonic factory burned to the ground in Mid 73 and the Pulsonic recipe and production methods were lost and nobody has been able to successfully replicate the pulsonic cones . The tone is in the cone.
I use a single 12 Celestion NEO Creamback. According to Suhr and Pete Thorn it sounds like a vintage Greenback. This is ideal as it weighs half of a Greenback and takes 50 watts RMS so I can tote it around with my Plexi 50 head and leave the 4x12 at home. Heaven! LOL
@@michaelcraig9449 Well for a start, I take 2 pedal boards with 35 on each board. I take and use 10 guitars. Small clubs have small stages. I get a great sound, fat and punchy. Add to that I am 74. I am fit, and I put on a great show. BUT come the end of the night ...Tear down, then loading, then driving then unloading is already killer.
Standard and h could work for humbuckers, but the H works much better for singles in my opinion. The Chinese was way too thin and undefined for singles for my liking.
I'd agree - you could most likely EQ your way around that if you were using just one of the speakers, but the thickness of the Std will naturally suit single coils more, I think.
What is the best speakers to get the ultimate best plexi type tones, you know 1968-1971..Jimi, Allman Brothers etc.. That is what I am looking for. The hugest JIMI tones ever! Can you post up a video about that? Thanks
I think I'm the only one that prefers the Chinese version. It has an open vintage quality. The Heritage sounds stuffy and muddy. That bass is too much in a mix.
Thought the chinese one sounded better. UK had a blanket on it for the highs. China greenie would cut much better in a band. If you had done a blind test it would have been more interesting to see listener results.
Hi I'm looking for some information on a celestion I picked up like can you give a date or tell if it genuine any help would be appreciated celestion g12m-25 greenback 16 ohm HM16 t1221/03 celestion international ltd ipswich england
I think if Joe HADN'T labelled which speaker he was using, there wouldnt be so much gushing about the heritage. I thought the chinese had a nice cutting bite and the heritage sounded boxy and unremarkable. Perhaps it needed breaking in.
Um yeah, Celestion needs to stop making speakers in China. When I think of my Marshall JCM800 4x12, I don't think of Hong Hong. When I think of Hong Kong, I think of rubber toys.
Chinese made speakers sound laughably shite, sounds like a tinny trash can, I desperately want the UK made Vintage 30's but I just can't bring myself to buy the Rubbish Chinese reissues as they sound terrible, bloody shame that.
