I don't know if they do anymore, but stereos used to come with a "loudness" button on them. When engaged, it would boost the lower frequencies somewhat so that listening at lower volumes would sound (relatively) the same as when the volume was up. Something to do with the Fletcher-Munson curves of human perception of various frequencies at various sound pressure levels. That's what the 55hz speaker sounded like to me: a 75hz with the "loudness" button pressed. Mostly, anyway. The 55hz also sounded to me like it had a hair more top than the 75hz. That could very easily be due to a slight variance in mike placement between the two speakers, though. They both sound great, and perfectly capable of producing a good tone for me and the type of music I like to play. A decision about which to choose, for me, would depend on the sound of the singer and other instruments in the band, so as to sit well in the mix.
I have a pair of 1970 75Hz G12H-30 Greenbacks mixed with a pair of G12M-25 Greenbacks from the same era in a TVB 4x12 B cab. Sounds incredible, especailly when pushed hard. I get plenty of bottom end girth from that big B cab, and it cuts through nicely.
Do you have the G12-M 55hz speakers with the Pulsonic cones? Or were your speakers the G12-H 55hz? I have G12-M’s that are 55hz, I’ve heard the same era 75hz speakers and thought they sounded a bit sweeter. What’s your take on the comparison? Thanks, J
I agree with what you said Joe. The differences are subtle and mostly heard when you played chords. The 55hz seemed a bit muffled with chords, but equal to the 75hz when playing leads/single notes. But, at the end of the day, there wasn't a ton of difference between the two speakers.
Joe are these speakers in parallel? The reason I ask is because dampening will occur when mixing the two speakers, the resonance ends up getting closer together on each speaker. To what extent that happens I’m not 100% sure.
I just played in a studio where the producer had some 55Hz G12H30's from the 1970's. They were God Like. I know Jimmy Page used these live, and that's the impression I got from them. Man they awesome!
A friend of mine had a mystery cabinet in his storage. An old italian cab, totaly beat up and ragged. He had to move his stuff and didn't want the dead weight so he gave it to me. I opened the back and then went running for the fridge to get the champagne, there were 4 original greenbacks in there, two were eaten bij rats but two survived and were functional without issues. G12m-25w-16ohm - 75c/s Surrey, dated to '68. I rebuilt the cabinet into a 2x12, made a new baffle and now I'm in absolute heaven. Everything "they" said about these things sounding completely magical is true. They do. And then some. Because they live in a closed cabinet they have plenty of bass response, I suspect that if they were 55hz ones it might even be too much. Still, for live use i'd go with something else, I'd shoot myself if I were to blow these up. Not because of the value but I don't wanna loose the sonic extasy they provide. Ever.
Great video. I feel it depends on the amp as well. I run twin Blues Jr's Mk 2's in stereo, which always has had a bass issue due to a lack of low end. The 55hz addressed that problem, give me a complete sound. It's perfect for my blues tones!
Very interesting. Perfect timing for me too due to some consideration I've been doing. I'm of the opinion the the 55hz sounds flatter and the the 75hz was a bit more "scooped." It now makes even more sense to me now why EVH would pair his 75hz JBL's(? - I think they were JBL's) with 55hz black backs. I really think they compliment each other well. I have a Vox ac30hw2 and I recently purchased one of these 55hz heritage green backs to put in there and pair with an alnico blue I've had lying around. If the alnico overpowers it too much, I'll put one of the 75hz green backs back in until I find a heritage version of the 75hz. Makes me wish Celestion made a 55hz version of the 75 watt cream back. I'm custom ordering a 4x12 that I'll be loading with cream backs and now I'm really keen to mix two 75hz with two 55hz speakers. Unfortunately, I tend to prefer higher power (50 watts power handling or more) speakers and I typically only ever see 55hz Celestions come in speakers that are in the 20 to 30 watt range a'la green backs and old black backs. If anyone has suggestions of a company that offers a speaker with 50+ watts of power handling and a 55hz cone, I'd be interested to hear about it. Useful and informative video as always Mr. Perkins.
There wasn’t too much difference between the two, although the 75hz sounded a bit clearer and less muffled than the 55hz. But I can see why both would be appealing. I preferred the 75hz
Interestingly it seemed to change with playing style, aggressive chord work allowed me to hear a subtle difference. When I could hear a difference I always preferred the 75 cone. In a mix with bass guitar I'm thinking the 75 would probably be a tiny bit more distinct and easier to get a good mix.
According to Johan Segeborn, which is a RU-vidr/Greenback expert, the g12h75 was never used in a production Marshall Cabinet. So, except if Jimmy changed his speakers, the chances are that he used the 55hz.
Worth mentioning that loading the two different speakers into one cabinet will give you an incorrect outcome: when one is playing the other will act as a ' passive radiator' (used often in hifi speakers), and not only resonate at its own bass frequency, but load the playing speaker. And of course vice-versa. What you're hearing is a sort of 70% playing/30% not playing sound... not well explained, but I hope it makes sense....
I have both and the differenc is much more pronounced in the room. I have one of each in 1 by 12s which i use in tandem put . I set them up several feet away from each other and it's a very full spectrum sound.
Great comparison! I am thinking about my G12H-25 Greenback for a G12H30 Anniversary. Currently the Greenback is in my 65 Amps Marquee, in combination with a G12H30 55Hz Heritage. If anything, I am looking for an overall slightly less woody sound, so the Anniversary should tighten up the sound a bit.
The 55's have that midrange "haw" and are warmer and thicker. That's why Hendrix used them, and why players like Angus and most other guitarists used the more snarly 75's.
If you are a bedroom player or mostly play alone, I can see the 55Hz being used as it is a fuller sound. But if you are playing in a rock band scenario or with someone on keys, etc., the 75Hz to help tighten up the sound and minimize the potential for muddiness. I did prefer the 75Hz overall though. It had a certain sparkle to it. Nice demo.
Hey Joe. Up front I really enjoy your videos. I decided to make a comment on this one because this was the exact subject I was investigating maybe 7 or 8 years ago. I own 2 of both the 55Hz and 75Hz versions of the Celestion Heritage G12H in two 2 X 12 closed back cabs. I have a lot of cabs and speakers around here because I used to do written reviews before video reviews took over. Anyway ...... I found that with guitars sporting humbucker pickups the 75Hz versions were almost always my favorites. The one exception was when trying to get that ultra thick Carlos Santana tone. The 55Hz versions did this better. With any of my Strats or Telecasters the 55Hz was always the way to go. Telecaster bridge pickups sound much better using the 55Hz. I'm guessing Jimi, since he was most often using Strats, would have preferred the 55Hz. It gives a single coil more body while still retaining a nice amount of note / string definition. With humbuckers, especially in the neck position, it's very hard to find a set of pickups that won't get muddy through the 55Hz model. Oh ... I do agree with you that some adjustments to an amps settings can remedy most of these differences but it's still hard to get a neck humbucker to sound good using the cab with the 55Hz versions. I tested mine using Bruno Underground 30, Fender Concert and Mesa Mark III heads. Rick
Hi Rick - yep, I'd agree that 55Hz speakers are arguably more suited to single coils :-) But I'm sure you could get a 75Hz sounding 99% the same with a bit of low end EQ!
Hi Perky, great video as always. Yeah the differences are subtle and also in electronic terms doesn't change much, tho resonance can change a whole world. Resonance frequencies are the lowest gamma of the transducer where the coil impedance has a huge peak, so those frequencies will be transduced at a lower level. Also the speaker with the lower Fs will perform better low frequencies in a bigger enclosure but will pay in change a lower medium gamma. Using both Fs in a smaller box will produce the opposite effect. Hope it helps mate , see you at the next video!
I'm having a hard time following (electronic neophyte) but am interested in what you're saying. Might you be able to explain in slightly plainer/layman's terms what effect an equal mix of these frequency (55hz and 75hz) speakers might have in a typical "Marshall" style 4x12 straight cab? Ty.
@@AnodyneHipsterInfluencer Sure, sorry I tried to make it easier but ..it's a really structured subject. Let's say in a 4X12 cab Celestion Creamback/Greenback/Blackback would express slightly better their goodness if 75 Hz resonance (Fs) version , the lowest end emission they lack (compared to the 55 Hz ones) would be enhanced by a dramatically increased emitting surface. An equal mix of 55/75 can also be good tho results may change way more basing on where you put the low Fs speakers or even if you mix them in wiring like 2 75 Hz in parallel and the 55's in series and/or viceversa.
I have a Marshall 4x12 from -77 with Celestion G12M-25 Blackbacks 55hz and they sound fantastic with my Marshal JMP 2203.I think 55hz sound better with bright Marshalls.
I liked the 75hz better here because it had more of that upper mid definition that I like, but I can definitely see the appeal of the 55hz version. It's one of those things where even though it's only a small difference, it's a small difference that can matter a lot to us as guitarists. I wonder how the 55hz version sounds with a treble booster? ;)
Wow I am blown away to know that Celestion discontinued the Heritage series??? I gave up on buying original Pulsonic cones too much $$$ and too much unreliability , most speakers available today are beat up and not worth the risk. So I bought a 4 x 12 of the G12H55's. And G12M20's...I love these speakers, as time goes bye they will continue to break in and sound better and better. BTW these are the speakers John Mark of Trainwreck Amps recommends to all his buyers who do not have original Pulsonic or Blackbacks. Great video Joe... I like the 55's because I found the75's a tad to bright and fizzy like you said, but like the 75's in the Blackback 30's. The G12M20's are fantastic too. I think Page also used 55's too?
Thanks for the info Jerry :-) I'm guessing that because the 'standard' G12's are made in the UK again now, the Heritage series felt unnecessary to their lineup. But I'm glad I grabbed mine when I did :-)
Quite a few commenters say the 55hz is muddy with chords. If you listen to Alright Now , I can't imagine anyway you could characterize the guitar as muddy...but if you can, well then give me Paul Kossoff's muddy tone all day every day.
If your a guitar player, go with the 75Hz . That speaker mixes well with the bass guitar player during a live performance, also the 75Hz is easy to mix in the studio, you may not hear much of a difference now, but you will later.
The magnet size makes more difference, if you compare vintage G12H55hz to G12H75hz also compare vintage G12M75hz to G12M55hz then your apples to apples as your actually just hearing the cone difference, most people will test G12M75hz vs G12H55HZ, that larger magnet alters the way the speaker reproduce the frequencies
🤔75 hz less mids & a more focused natural warmth response 🤓 EVH ( early VH ) used the 30 watt 55 hz Blackbacks & on the 1st studio album & installed 2 - D120F JBL's top position in a 412 cab & 2 - Blackbacks at the bottom 🎸
To my ear, on my computer system, the low end sounds very different between the two. I would care alot if I were gigging live quite a bit, and then I would choose the one best suited to my rig, and the material I was playing.
It's hard get mids to sound woody with amp adjustments if the natural Woodiness is not there. I' have both of these speakers and to me they are not that similar. The EQ curve is quite different even in this video I can hear a substantial difference
I heard quite a difference. I'm confident that in a mix the 75Hz would be my favorite, but otherwise the 55Hz sounded more full. My guitarist is building a 2x12 and as his engineer I'd like one of each, but he's going with Celestion Creambacks. I noticed that you chose series wiring over parallel. I presume the Orange could handle 4, 8 or 16 ohm loads so this could be a good topic for the next Q&A (please)!
Hi Bill - my Dr Z's can give 4 ohm loads, but the JTM45 and Orange are just 8/16...I almost exclusively have 8ohm speakers here, so series wiring at 16 ohms lets me use the cab with (almost) any amp I own; whereas at 4 ohms I'd be limited to just the Z's :-)
Both sound pretty darn good. What was the room volume? Do you think these speakers would behave differently if you had the volume cranked to max? Thinking about how (or whether) these speaker handle breakup or cone cry etc.
Hey joe ive recently started watching and want to learn guitar, but dont want to spend too much money on one, do you have any suggestions for beginner guitars?
Yamaha revstar is a good starting point or Squire classic vibe strat or telecaster or a Eppiphone Les paul. What music style do you like as sometimes that could be a good indication of the style of guitar you'd be needing.
Great to hear you're wanting to start playing :-) It's been a long time since I looked at beginner guitars, but the two things I'd say are a) buy second hand, as you can get a better instrument for the same outlay as buying new, and b) look at what style of guitars your favourite musicians play, and go for something in that same ballpark....no point buying a BC Rich Warlock if you're a Beatles fan, for example! Best of luck with it :-)
I would assume that the 55hz would sound better with a brighter amp ? I’m thinking my jcm800 might sound better with the 55hz…any thoughts from anyone ? Would love to hear/read them….I’m currently looking for something to pair with a GK-85w celestion in my 2x12….trying to decide between a greenback of some sort or a V30….
Depends what you're trying to achieve, tonally - 'better' is a very subjective thing, and relative to the sound you already have. Very subtle differences between the two cones, though, and I'd wager you could dial them in to sound 80% the same with a couple of EQ tweaks.
Did you find the 55 to be piercing at higher volumes? I prefer that extra solid tone it has the 75 sounds more scooped but Iv seen multiple people say they had to get rid of theirs because it was too honky and peircing at higher volumes . I just think 75hz H speakers sound scooped and the 55hz version sounds like the solution for the frequency range of an h magnet but with the forwardness of an M Please let me know! - I did see someone who had both 16 ohm and 8 ohm 55hz speakers say the 16 were way honkier and harder to break in
Guitar players did not gradually adopt using 55hz chelestions they used them as soon as they were available. Both Hendrix and Jimmy page uses the 55Hz H30s and many others of that era and it was because the Marshall 1982 A and B cabinets came with 55Hz H30s orange and Laney cabs often had the 75hz H30 but Marshall used the 55Hz version in the 1982 cabs guys like Hendrix and page chose the 1982 cabs because they were rated for higher power handling. They were rated for 120 watts so one single 4 by 12 could be used with A 100 watt head which is why the 1982 cabs had the 100 symbol in the top right hand corner. As in safe for use with a 100 watt head.. they did not choose them for any tonal reason but rather they were the proper tool or the job .latter players used them simply because guys like Page and Hendrix used them .
Hello Joe! How are you? I have a retro 50 Orange and wanted to ask you, given your experience. I need a head that is lighter than the Orange, but I don't want to give up what it offers me, its sound. What amplifier do you think could give me what I need? I'm asking because I don't know people who have this amp. Greetings and congratulations on your channel!
Hi Patxi - hard to say I'm afraid...the Orange sounds as it does because of the components (transformers, etc) which are by their nature big & heavy. I suppose some of the smaller Orange heads will have a similar DNA, but the old Pics Only style amps are their own beast, and usually massive! :P Though perhaps something like the Tubesteader Sunkeeper running into a solid state power amp might get you close enough?
75 hz is what you expect, 55 hz is. Too muddy, but if you have a Ice picky or high treble amp a pair or a quad of 55’s will get you back in a decent zone.
