English Translation (feel free to suggest corrections please): Interviewer: You rarely say flattering things about your conductor colleagues. (Quoting Celi) "Especially Toscanini, but also Furtwangler, had almost no understanding of music. And Karl Böhm never conducted a single note of music" Celi: Not in his life. No. Interviewer: (quoting Celi again) "Bernstein can fill a hall but that has nothing to do with music" What is your opinion of Karajan? Celi: It’s the most tragic case of all conductors. This young man could have achieved something. But he is sick with his unmeasurable vanity and arrived at the completely wrong knowledge about music. He became an unimaginably unmusical person. With him, not a single bar sounds right. I just saw his performance of Mahler’s 6th in Berlin. Where do you start? That‘s a man who understands nothing about baton technique. Reporter: But the public adores him Celi: Yes, that’s understandable. If you compare Coca Cola with wine, Coca Cola certainly wins. That’s not the right criterion. But that’s a criterion for this paltry theater-man. He said "A good conductor is someone who feels soul. For God’s sake!
Sponge mind TV, thank you so much for putting in the English translation, As it was very interesting to read what he was saying. I appreciate your help so much.
@@upsilon6358 Danke für die Kompliment! aber ich habe auch Hilfe bekommen von einem von meinen Freunden, einem Muttersprachler :) Wie auch immer, ist das Video faszinierend, oder?
@@SpongeMindTV yes, it really is. he is certainly a great conductor, but i think those mentioned are also conducting with heart and soul... and so producing wonderful music i love listening to!
Listen to his music, not his interviews! Celibidache, there’s no doubt in my mind, was an exceptionally great conductor. I grew up in Munich when he was head of the Munich Phil, and I had formative musical experiences with him conducting Bruckner, Schumann, Schubert, Tchaikovsky. Both in his rehearsals and coverts. His sense of architecture, his phrasing that allowed him to hold large arches of suspense even at a slow tempo, his emphasis on tonal beauty and balance and transparency, and his obsession with detail, while never losing the overall coherence of the piece out of sight - only the greatest musicians can do that. His musical temperament didn’t go with everything - I never liked his Beethoven much, nor his Mozart - but for composers that aligned with his temperament, the results were often extraordinary. But I do believe that he was first and foremost an instinctive musician, equipped with exceptional musicality and exceptional charisma - like all the greatest conductors. In this regard, he was not so different from somebody like Leonard Bernstein. His philosophy sounded great when you heard it coming directly from him, because you were captivated by his charisma. It does not make much sense though once you write it down. Starting with his claim that the way he did music was objectively correct, and that of other people was objectively wrong. There is no such thing. I understand that a musician needs to believe that what he or she does music is subjectively right, that there is no alternative to making music the way he does it at that very moment and in this very place, but this is tied to the specific person, it does not transfer to another. I would listen to his interviews for amusement, also for some insights, but always take them with a grain of salt. But listen carefully to his music.
It is known that K. Böhm became very upset when he learned about Celibidache's comments about him. He had also insulted Cl. Abbado (1933-2014),by saying that, "I could easily bear 3 weeks without food, than 3 hours hearing music conducted by Abbado."
Ioannis Prekas The slight against Böhm was indeed unjust, but his remarks about Abbado are pretty spot on, at least to my ears. His earlier recordings are quite good, but nearly everything from his later period is so lacking in rhythmic alertness. It all just sounds loved to death. His final Bruckner 9 is a mess.
@@echorrhea very good and wise comments on Abbado: if you have a look at the back of Bruckner's9th CD, you can realise it took 6 concerts (in two different acoustics) to create a single "live performance" take...Abbado, as one of the foremost Italian critics once remarked, had no conducting technique at all...
Abbado could make magic sometimes . I think much of his Lucerne Festival work at the end of his life was superb. Don't know what he means about Boehm, but he is correct about HvK!
In a 1969 interview the famed Australian born pianist Eileen Joyce said the greatest conductor she had ever worked with was Sergiu Celibidache. She said "he was the only one who got inside my soul".
A brilliant musician, teacher, thinker and conductor who unfortunately was a prisoner of his own egotism and jealousy. In addition, his inability to show compassion, empathy and kindness resulted in his becoming a caricature of himself.
Bisher hatte ich eine eher indifferente Meinung, was Celibidache anbelangt. Das hat sich geändert. Jetzt habe ich eine schlechte Meinung - jedenfalls, was den menschlichen und auch kollegialen Aspekt anbelangt.
I studied german for five years in my " Liceo classico " here in Italy: If you like classical music, to know or remember somethigs of that language is much important. Thanks again
Seems like most people criticizing Celibidache in the comment section never actually listened to the man's performances. There is no other explanation.
@@wei2190sd dude was a straight up egomaniac. I hate when musicians turn it into philosophy or something when they are merely entertainers. Play the right notes at the right time in the right way and you're good, enough of this grandiose bullshit.
The fact that he was a gifted conductor does not change the other obvious fact, that he was a spiteful, resentful, bitter egotistical man, who obviously needed therapy.
People say he was full of himself and arrogant. Think about he never wanted his work to be recorded. I guess that speaks something about him. Basically, he will be forgotten by history, in less time than other conductors, as his works are not there to be re-issued many many times. Think about that.
Celi ist nur in Paradoxen zu begreifen: Wie gelangt ein Mann zu derart grandiosen Ergebnissen, dessen Urteile über die Welt so fehlerbehaftet sind? Darauf muss man sich einlassen. Man kann seinen Bruckner VIII lieben und verehren, sollte ihn sich aber auch in Unterhosen vorstellen. Ein traumatisierter Mensch.
I admire Celibidache but to say that Böhm or Furtwängler did not understand or conduct a note of music is the most stupid thing to say and unworthy of such a great conductor
At the very beginning the reporter quoted Celibidache saying "Especially Toscanini, but also Furtwangler, had almost no understanding of music". And Celi didn't deny it.
@@juanuceda401 The reporter said that, not Celibidache. If you really want to know, what Celibidache thought about Furwängler, I recommend to google this article: "Wie ein Leuchtturm" (über Furtwängler) - Celibidache. It's in german, but deepl will do a great job. I quote: "He is unique, and I really consider my meeting with him, not personally, but as a listener, a grace." But also: "Furtwängler was not a good conductor, but he was a brilliant musician."
@@SpongeMindTV Yes, the reporter says that, but the quote is not correct. As I recommended to Juan Uceda, google the article "Wie ein Leuchtturm" (über Furtwängler) - Celibidache. This gives an accurate impression of Celibidaches thoughts about Furtwängler. In this way, I myself have heard him speak countless times about Furtwängler.
He is just telling the truth, it is like Einstein said, they don't understand theory of relativity, who understands the subtle Phenomenology of Music, not even Furtwaengler !
Karajan und Celibidache sind in punkto Eitelkeit etc. wohl auf derselben Stufe. Nur Karajan hatte es erstens nie nötig sich ständig über andere Kollegen auszulassen und sie zu beleidigen und zweitens ziehe ich fast jede Karajaneinspielung einer Celieinspielung vor. Celi hatte zwar sehr viel Sinn für Klang, aber leider hatte er überhaupt keine Begabung fürs Dramatische, deshalb sind so viele seiner Aufnahmen bräsig, langatmig, ohne Sinn für Kohärenz. Da er das wusste, hat er eben auch nur wenige Aufnahmen gemacht!
Maybe he was paranoia. And he was not able to do Oper at all. So, His aggressive criticism to Karajan and Böhm (apart from his unusual talent) is a proof that he really felt jealousy.
@@maumusa123 I seem. His tempo setting is not too dramaturgy on his own free from score for the composer's intention,, except for Bruckner in particular. I mean, it's too late extraordinary. Rather, in the case of Karajan, listening carefully, it is dug down faithfully to the score. We are searching for balance and depth on that. Celi can be seen as a rhetoric bent for its performance and one-time play. When Celi was young, I like it because it's more fresh and the orchestra ensemble is terribly clear and propulsive.
Well against Karajan he had a very personal, intimate wound. Celibidache was the conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic from 1945 to 1952, and then under Furtwängler until 1954. After Furtwängler died he hoped to be the next conductor... but then the musicians chose Karajan. It's very clear that Celi never realky got over this, he could never forget or forgive. As others said he was always an extraordinary conductor: he could be the best musician... but often not the best person. Specially in his last years.
@@anon-rf5sx really? i tought it was the complete oppisite… he seemed really friendly in his last years. also very calm and i felt like he tried more to represent the actual score
Hey just think how many languages he was able to speak, how he explained music: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TP8zkkUoIO8.html, etc. He was not able to do opera? :))), what you just said about Celibidache is only what you think and represents only you. (just think about it, all you just said, it came out of your brain...), you saying these horrible things because you been hurt (probably because you love the ones that Sergiu speaking about...without knowing Sergiu that much...).
Sergiu Celibidache is a genius and therefore he can't be understood. He is not arrogant he is just saying the truth !!! even if you like it or you do not like it !! it is the truth ...
you see: the problem with such arguments is that they can neither be confirmed nor refuted. "feeling soul" is a nonsense argument because any serious musician would be sure he "feels soul". but you cannot judge it objectively. in the same way claiming someone is right "because he is a genius" is bullsh*t. it's just plain arrogant, nothing else. let the public decide. that's not a question of coca-cola vs. wine because a large part of that public payed for guys like karajan or celibidache behaving like divas. in a sense, karajan was far better because he was able to play his part much more convincingly. celibidache's behaviour reminds me of established stage actors claiming they are better actors than robert redford or paul newman. just pure bullshlt, nothing else.
Bravo, bravo, BRAVO, Grande Maestro! Each word is 100% true. The ONLY man who had balls big enough to say the blank Truth. He expressed truth always, every time regardless of who was in front of him, fearless of any misunderstanding, disagreement, or any kind of false reverence. I have heard many of his sincere thoughts and it was such a revelation, every time so shocking, but SO RIGHT! Celi you were you are - no doubt whatsoever - the greatest conductor of the 20th century! The world would be completely different today if we had even a tiny percent of people like this great Human! Thank you Celi for being yourself, the man of a few words but each one full of grace, honesty, genuine humbleness, integrity and truth. We miss you Celi...
@@OfficinaEmotiva hör doch mal seine bruckner aufführungen mit den Münchnern an, ist mir doch scheiss egal was für eine Person das hinter dem musizieren ist. Vorallem ist er längst nicht mehr unter uns
@@OfficinaEmotiva vorallem dein Kommentar war lustig, da du gesagt hast er hätte die tempi von bruckner ignoriert obwohl in den Partituren nur sehr wenig begrenzte Tempos vorzufinden sind. Pure Ignoranz
Auf RU-vid gibt es einen schönen Film über H. v. Karajan (Herbert von Karajan - Maestro for the screen). Wenn man sich das anschaut und versteht, dann wird einem klar wie Recht Celibidache hatte. Das mag einigen nicht Recht sein und nicht gefallen was er sagt, aber verdammt nochmal es stimmt einfach!
bloß weil der eine selbstverliebter mainstream-heroe war, hat doch deswegen celibidache nicht recht?! wem bringt denn ein solcher vergleich zwischen zwei sich selbst überschätzenden diven etwas? hören Sie mal die beethoven-sinfonien unter bernstein bewusst, da können Sie celi und hvk vergleichsweise beide in einen sack packen und in den schrank stecken.
@@stxa2594 Sehr gut gesagt! Meine Bewunderung für den Kollegen ist mit diesem Interview vorbei. Ein arroganter Sack, genau wie der andere, der doppelte Nazi.
@@stxa2594Bernstein und Beethoven ? Da ist man doch lieber taub als dem mann auch nur bei einem Satz einer Beethoven Sinfonie zuzuhören, ein intelligenter Theoretiker der bernstein ohne zweifel aber klassik dirigieren damit hat er nichts am hut, wäre er doch nur bei jazz und seinen musicals geblieben er hätte damit großen erfolg gehabt.
@@EwicoCylinder Eieiei ... das ist so abgrundtief überheblich und unzutreffend, dass einem die Haare zu Berge stehen. Bernsteins Aufnahmen der Beethoven-Symphonien sind Referenzaufnahmen! P.S.: Noch etwas - Jazz und Musicals sind nichts Minderwertiges, wie Sie hier vielleicht implizieren wollen. Jemand, der ein Werk wie West Side Story geschaffen hat, steht gleichrangig neben Symphonikern oder Opernkomponisten.
Karajan hat es nie nötig gehabt so respektlos über einen Kollegen hinweg zu beleidigen. Das ist auch der Grund warum Celibidache nie an eine HVK heran kommen wird . Die Neidgenossenschaft ist groß!
Es handelt sich um metaphorische Vergleiche, mit denen Celibidache arbeitet, sowohl in der Musik als auch beim [rein deskriptiven, jedoch nicht pejorativen!] Kritisieren, offenbar verbale Relikte seines damaligen Philosophiestudiums - und das hat mit Beleidigungen nichts zu tun!
Captain Charty - I am sorry but I've been learning German only for a few years so my comprehension is poor... Did you mean what he said had nothing to do insulting?
Yes there is something about romanian and malicious !!! Romanians are deportated Italian Jail prisoniers, they were fornerly all italian criminals !!!@@bigbong620
A avut o fire dificilă si datorita faptului ca a avut viața grea si a fost dat la o parte cu ușurință! Oricum Brukner ul lui nu se da pe mezzo! Mahler se interpretează de catre marile orchestre ale lumii! Dar, mie și gusturile nu se discuta,nu imi place in mod deosebit Mahler!
Yes, Celibidache was egoistical. It goes with the job. Years ago, Leonard Slatkin was being interviewed. The interviewer complimented him, saying Slatkin wasn't the stereotypical egotistical conductor most people think of. Slatkin said he was as arrogant and egoistical as anyone, that you NEEDED a strong sense of your talent in order to convince an orchestra that your ideas are as good as the last conductor to do whatever music is on the program. In so many words, he said a quiet and "nice" conductor would be torn apart by an orchestra. He said all good conductors have very healthy egos - some of them just have better manners. Bruno Walter was a pussycat, but he knew how to be emphatic enough to get an orchestra to do things his way. Other conductor are just plain mean - they get the job done, yes, but they might not get invited back for a second engagement!
***** Not the composers suck but the collegues (other conductors as Toscanini, Furtwängler, Böhm, Bernstein and Karajan)! It's very interesting. He also answered the interviewer's "but he (Karajan) has success with it" by saying: "Of course, but that's not the criterion, if you'd compare a good wine to coca-cola coca would probably win!" True, isn't it?
MusikPiratCH Karajan conducted for Luciano Pavarotti on his return to stage, but Luciano is so overpowering that no one payed attention to the conductor.
Furtwängler was superb and unique! No one succeeded in reaching after him the philosophical depths and mysticism of musical thinking. Celibudache had claims even to exceed Furtwangler. But he made only the outward impression. In depth, Celibudache remained at the level of restrained hedonism - the limit of opportunity for a romanesque musician.
As an oriental tantrika, at first I admired Furtwaengler as the Conductor, recently, I did comparisons amongst 3 greatest conductors in my mind: Furtwaengler, Celibidache, Mravinsky, and the result is clear: Celibidache is the best, he has reached the celestial sphere which Furtwaengler sometimes reach ed but not always, and Mravinsky is far below. You need to be a metaphysician to comprehend this point. Celibidache is really a multi-dimensional philosopher of music, a modern Plotinus.
Su Toscanini mi espressi in termini simili a quelli del Maestro Celibidache in una chiacchierata informale con il Maestro Goodman. Ad ogni modo, concordo totalmente con Celi su i nomi che ha fatto.
Celi ist einer der größten Musiker des 20. Jahrhunderts. Menschen, die ihn als "Narr" oder "möchtegern musicus" bezeichnen sollten sich ernsthaft die Frage stellen, ob sie sich zukünftig weiterhin mit klassischer Musik auseinandersetzen sollen.
An absolutely horrible opinion. Basically, Celibidache led everything slower than anybody else. Some things he did are good, but he thought that he was a better conductor than anyone, while he was totally inflexible, stiff in his approach and did a lot of music like it was all the same.
Such an example of someone who ended up trivial. In younger day he was great but in his last years he simply sat on a stool and pointed his fingers at the orchestra. What an arrogant man to think that he has the definitive word. You never get success by begrudging the success of others.
So arrogant der Rumäne hier rüberkommen mag, so sehr hat er aber im Bezug auf Karajan recht. Karajan war eitel, hat das Orchester beim Dirigieren (gerade bei Auftritten) nicht angeschaut und hat vor allem immer das "Zeigen seiner Dirigentenfähigkeit" im Kopf gehabt. Er mag zwar etwas von Musik verstanden haben, aber, wie Celibidache richtig sagt, "er (Karajan) ist an seiner maßlosen Eitelkeit krank geworden". Da stimme ich zu. Bei Böhm allerdings wäre ich auch verwundert... Der war zwar auch eitel und vor allem cholerisch ohne Ende, aber dabei so pingelig und perfektionistisch, dass am Ende einfach was Tolles rauskommen musste. Celibidaches Probenarbeit sieht immer aus wie "Bilder malen" mit Noten. Problem: Nicht jeder Musiker versteht sein (Celibidaches) musikalisches Kopfkino und wird dadurch frustriert. Und, mit Verlaub, eine SCHLAGTECHNIK hat Celibidache auch nicht wirklich. Da sollte man mal Böhm sehen, der wirklich haargenau dirigiert und vor allem ein Timing-Spezialist sein muss.
B Burton yes of course. His musicianship was extraordinarily. He knew how to voice an orchestra, and understood the nuances of many styles of music. But like many conductors, he was self-absorbed to the point where he could only see the world through the prism of his own existence. To me this seemed at the time, and still today, as a shortcoming as it failed to capture the richness, diversity and interdependence of the environment in which he lived and worked. We all know people who place themselves at the center of the universe and no matter how interesting the individual the narrowness of this approach is constricting and ultimately monotonous and boorish. But I say this as someone who only had sporadic and ancillary contact with him. If one wants to discredit my observations on these grounds, I can only concede that my knowledge is incomplete and my observations limited. I suppose this could best be summed up by saying that his intellect, and musical sensibility, seemed enormous. His heart and emotional capacity seemed limited in comparison. My contact with him is now four decades old. I was neither a close friend nor his biographer. I only know the impressions he gave to me. I suppose I imagine that the comments I leave on RU-vid might be relevant, particularly as I was an eyewitness. But maybe I too am placing too great a value on my own ideas.
Christopher Wagner, Thank you so much for your reply to my question. This venue is not conducive to any in depth statements so I asked you to explain so I would have a more thorough understanding of what you meant. I have a short coming of not being able to read between the lines, so to speak. I admire Celibidache’s musical interpretation, knowledge and intelligence. You are absolutely right about personal impressions and observations, they are of utmost importance. You having had personal knowledge of him, I relish the chance to get a better feeling of him not only as a musician, conductor, performer, but as a person. Again, thank you for your response to my question. Stay well and safe. Greetings from Albuquerque, New Mexico. Bonne Burton
ccelibidache etait un grand chef mais il ne s'honorait pas en critiquant ses collegues ; on peut comprendre la jalousie envers karajan qui a eu la gloire que l'on sait
Certainement, c´etait là, cette gloire la que Karajan avait. Et aussi aujourd´hui, le monde de la musique classique sait ca très bien. Mais - quelle gloire est-ce que c´etait? Par example, Celibidache nous donne l´aspect que Karajan etait comme un acteur des theatres [il a fait beaucoup des filmes dans les qu´il etait le protagoniste - tandis que Celibidache n´a jamais eu cette intention, pas aussi avec des disques]. Et avec ca, l´Orchestre Philharmonique de Berlin a choisi Karajan par être populair comme lui-meme - qui a fait de la musique sans regarder l´origine de l´OEvre [Du moins, j´ai entendu l´histoire et l´opinion philosophique de Celibidache comme ca]. De cette facon, je pense qu´on peut voir la jalousie de Celibidache certainement, d´une part - mais d´autre part, je soupconne aussi que c´etait son attitude contre l´intention et l´aura narcisstique de Karajan comme Celibidache aussi dit ici, avec le mot "Eitelkeit": 0:29.
La gloire n'a rien a voir, les deux marstros étaient aussi connus, la différence c'est que Karajan a énormément enregistré mais celibidache pas du tout, donc si Celibidache insultes, ou du moins critique sévèrement Karajan c'est parce-que ce dernier n'avait d'après lui aucune compréhension de la musique. Le problème de Celibidache c'est qu'il a son point de vu, tres particulier, sur la musique, donc il critique tout ceux qui ne comprenaient pas la musique comme lui (a peu près tout le monde), de ce fait, au lieu de respecter le pt de vu d'autres conducteurs il prend sa vision pour la seule et unique conception de la musique possible.
Leider hat Celibidache Recht! He is right in almost all that he said. Nobody understood sound and music the way he did. He understood music like a philosopher which no other conductor did before. However, Bernstein was good.
and what, pray, makes you be the judge of that? I would prefer any (!) bernstein concert to the romanian's perfomances. and by the way: making music is no philosophy. you can be a splendid artist without any philosophical background. in the same way you can easily be an overrated interpret while insisting on some sort of philosophical depth. as a concert-goer I do know which of these two extremes I'd prefer...
Da sollten sich mal die zahlreichen Zuwanderer hierzulande ne Scheibe abschneiden: er spricht mit Akzent, aber sehr kultiviert! Oder Arthur Rubinstein, der nahezu perfekt deutsch sprach und sich beim Interview für seine bescheidenen Deutschkenntnisse entschuldigte. Dieses Land verkommt kulturell zum Entwicklungsland, die Meisten bejubeln das und halten klassische Musik für antiquiert. Es ist zum Heulen!
Sehr originell - ich habe doch schmunzel müssen. Leider bestätigt die Reaktion genau meine Kritik. Natürlich gibt es ein Leben ohne Celi. Wer mit seiner Art Musik zu machen nicht konform geht, kann natürlich sein Konzept ablehnen. Aber es ist etwas völlig Anderes, ob man sachliche Kritik übt oder aber sich so äußert, wie Sie es getan haben. Insoweit ist Ihre Reaktion, amüsant wie sie auch sein mag, leider völlig unangebracht.
I much prefer Karajan but, heard that Celibidache had an Oedipus complex, ( as displayed in this video clip) Arrogance is always a cover-up for deep seeded insecurity. I noticed all the really great artist are humble, you really have to pity him, he kind of has a cult-like following of people whose personalities are as crappy as his.
This is realy an arogant man. He doesn´t rech Bernstein to the knees as a conductor , neither Furtwängler or Karajan , and he speaks as if he is the oracle on conducting and making music, what a drag. I think this man was an interesting and good conductor, but he should have studies tempos on the pieces and then he has to know what real emotion is. I am sorry this interview made me angry, how dare he !!!!
Celibidache claims to be a buddhist. A real follower of this livefilosofical religion will never talk that bad and without any nuance about other people. Celibidache was an overrated conductor who tried in all different ways to put attention on himself. The conductors he mentioned (Bernstein,Böhm and Karajan),were much greater and much more interesting musicians than Celi himself.
Puh! As if Karajan didn´t try to put all attention on himself! And that is not interesting as you say that - that´s disgusting. This "actor" Karajan only was the protagonist in his self-produced movies, just to be present, just to be the mainstream conductor above all - but that had certainly nothing to do with real music [among the comments here, I´ve explained Celibidache´s argument and comparism between Karajan and Coca Cola. Take a look above. Unfortunately , it is in German, another one in French] Celibidache is right, there is no doubt. Over.
Es ist aber allgemein bekannt, daß Celibidache sehr eifersüchtig auf von Karajan und auf seine Karriere war, wie der große Klavierspieler Alexis Weissenberg es so richtig sagte.
un chef d'orchestre n'est pas grand chose sans un orchestre. alors les avis philosophiques ou autres d'un chef d'orchestre, c'est pareil aux avis et opinions des joueurs de foot. on s'en fiche. et puis, il ne s'agit que de musique, et de musiciens... tout ceci n'est pas grand chose en comparaison de la Vie, de la Nature, de l'Existence. Alors si les musiciens pouvaient s'en tenir à jouer, de même que les footballeurs... merci.
was für ein arroganter vollhorst. allein schon sein dummes geschwätz über musikaufnahmen bei anderen gelegenheiten zeigt, dass man ihn mit recht nie ernst nehmen konnte.
