CHARISMA CARPENTER: STRESS OF ADDRESSING THE TOXIC WORKPLACE ON BUFFY  

Especially what James Marsters added about him joining as Spike -- also on this podcast series.

I was a young woman during the Cordy pregnancy arc and it was pretty clear to me why her character suddenly went from being one of the most compelling in the show to one who was basically "fridged". I wish I was wrong about my suspicions, but it seems I wasn't. It's a shame, because Whedon was sold as a feminist, but it turns out that he was actually a petty, opportunistic POS.

Yeah I wasn't ever comfortable with how her story line played out even before I knew anything also.

Supposedly jw wasn’t allowed to be alone with Michelle tractenberg so

Damn I don’t really remember her

Yep. And we almost had something great with The Nevers, but Charisma's revenge put a stop to that. I get that the comments about her pregnancy were frustrating, but man. The response has seemed disproportionately punitive to a lot of people. Not just Joss.

I liked whedons shows but when I found out he wrote alien resurrection that was a black mark on him the justice league and the stuff that came out from that strike 2 and the stuff coming out on Buffy stuff strike 3 I say freak joss whedon

Yeah buffy was my favorite series growing up, i really hated to find this out about him

His JL stuff. That WW script he wrote. The shit about him his ex revealed. His holier than thou arrogance from first hand encounters from others... I've not liked him as a person for well over a decade

The wild accusations are in fact heartbreaking... and unbelievable. There are a bunch of actors and actresses who keep on working with Whedon, gladly signing onto new projects or just cameoing. What do they say? How can it be that like 90% of actresses keep on working for this "evil, evil guy"?

@@donaldduck830 Narcissists are well known for setting up the Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic. It's the ultimate high for power hungry dicks.

You’re so precious and sweet

I agree 👌

She comes across as surprised that this went over well. I'm surprised, too. Not that people are supporting a woman who was pregnant, but that people were so willing to blacklist a guy without the full story. She didn't want to work nights and weekends anymore. They had to cancel the epic villain arc they had written for her because it was supposedly physically demanding. Hard to rewrite around a pregnancy and reduces hours at the last minute.

She's had minimal aging in these past twenty years. Remarkable. She's freaking fifty years old!

well that's been her whole life so hopefully she's great at keeping up her looks and body. She's been the sexy girl on her shows, it's not like she was going to do any serious acting.

Well, she looked like she was 32 in Buffy, and she still looks 32 now that she's 50...

@@jakelover1731 Thats good for a white girl

@@Covingtonao she’s part Native American.

Botox is real-life vampirism

Supposedly he wasn’t allowed to be alone with Michelle tractenberg on buffy

@@jimbowlan5804 i'm a fan of his work and i have been since shit Buffy and if you really want to go back i even enjoy the (1992) film which is a comedy and if you know that ahead of time you will enjoy it more than if you expect it to be the same as the show. having said that though i enjoy his work and respect his work it really breaks my heart that here is a guy who has such strong women characters such as Buffy or Cordy for example. i may love his work but i didn't say i love the man the fact that he is like this at all and has a history is fucked up beyond belief. i respect the hell out of Ray and Charisma as well for speaking out about him. i was surprised as well that people from buffy and angel who worked both in front of the camera and if i'm not mistaken behind the camera as well. if i recall his wife Debra? i think her name was? who he was married to for years he if my memory is right cheated on her for years. so right there shows he doesn't respect women it's hard to believe that his fucking father or grandfather i forget which was a writer on one of the greatest tv shows of all time The Dick Van Dyke Show ( 1961-1966) i think he once said his grandfather was a writer in the 50's and 60's and his father was a writer in the 70's and 80's. so it's in the family blood so to speak. one wonders what they think of his actions? if they are even still around i mean.

@@rolandofgilead43 "it's hard to believe that his fucking father or grandfather i forget which was a writer on one of the greatest tv shows of all time The Dick Van Dyke Show ( 1961-1966)" Sounds like you are mixing up professional skill with personal character. One has nothing to do with the other - you can be an incredible artist yet still be the worst kind of cunt that humanity has to offer. Often they go hand in hand because success allows you to get away with a multitude of sins as it is always in somebody elses interest to keep you successful.

@@mnomadvfx sad but true I love Bill cosby his comedy album he is a comic genius but as a person well, Phillips spector another genius but a murderer go figure

You know, he is so harmful and toxic that like 90% of the actors and ACTRESSES who have worked with him in the past love to work with him again. How many Whedon projects were Summer Glau and Eliza Dushku (who sued CBS for misbehavior and got a settlement, so she is no shy wallflower!) and Fillion and others doing with him?

Did she, though? The only season that was altered was the last season. She was written into a bed because they had to make last minute changes when she informed Joss late that she was pregnant and could no longer work nights and weekends.

What did she go through?

What hell? How bad could it have been, seeing that almost all the others rejoined Whedon for other projects gladly?

​@@donaldduck830agreed. I still don't know what happened to her. She was on every season of Angel and most of Buffy.

Whedon should sue her. There was no substance to any of her allegations.

That doesn't make sense. Her pain? How was she harmed? I still don't know.

I don't think we were ready to hear it, unfortunately.

@@AndorianBlues I'm confused by a lot of this though........does it means she's actually telling the truth though?

@@darnellmajor8895 is she? Are you dumb? Yes it's true.

Did she? Got any links perhaps?

@@darnellmajor8895 I am very reluctant to weigh in on "he said - she said" stuff. But in this case there is a pattern: Joss Whedon is so terrible to work with that most people who worked with him... WANT TO WORK WITH HIM AGAIN. Look at Glau and Fillion. Or better yet, Dushku: She sued CBS when she was allegedly mistreated and left a series there, but kept on rejoining Whedon. She does not take crap from anybody but keeps on working with "toxic" Whedon. How toxic can he be, then? As much as I love Charisma, in this case I do NOT believe her and think that she just tries to regain relevancy via metoo, not noticing that it is not 2015 anymore.

Your timeline is off. The storyline everyone hates happened before her pregnancy. Her pregnancy only impacted the final season and she was written into a bed because she said she couldn't work nights and weekends anymore.

I wish her the best, too, and I love her, but I don't know how Joss Whedon traumatized her. She was written into a bed for one season of television when she said she couldn't work nights or weekends anymore because of her pregnancy and doctor's orders.

I respect Ashley Judd (spoke out against Weinstein from the start and got blacklisted for it). I don't respect a person who lost relevancy and now tries to regain the spotlight via wild accusations.

@@donaldduck830 exactly! She owes Joss Whedon her fame, but she didn't speak then. No, she took the abuse for the money, but now that is trendy she comes out. Well, also give him the money he made you back. Can't stand hypocrites.

​@@radupopescu2370yeah, but I don't even know if she took abuse. What abuse was there? This interview was supposed to clarify it, but I have more questions than ever. And she omits a lot. Like how she told the show her doctor said she couldn't work nights or weekends anymore. On a vampire show. It seems like she wanted her role reduced. It's confusing.

Exactly I love Cordelia and Angel and they ruined it🤬

@@binkyfaith Ikr 😢

Wait. What did they do to Cordelia? She was in every season of Angel. She did get written into a bed because a pregnant woman can't be put in the danger of doing a physically demanding villain role.

I like his interviews, but I wish he would have clarified further that what she was saying didn't amount to assault, or asked her if there's room for forgiveness since she was on every season of Angel.

Nah. A lot of the fans, while supportive of Charisma, are still supportive of Joss. I don't think he intended her any harm. I don't really know how she was traumatized. Her role in the final season may have been reduced, in part based on her own requests? Other than that, no idea what happened.

that would have been really fantastic

It’s interesting considering that Firefly and Serenity was the complete opposite as the cast and crew had a ton of fun with their bloopers. Could it be that it was too short lived to become a toxic workplace like Buffy and Angel? Or did the cast and crew (as well as Joss) have more chemistry on set? Now my head just hurts.. 😕

@@talynstarburst2l2l2l Its really hard to know unless the actors from those shows speak up. It couldve also been that the actors from those other shows decided not to be affected by Joss, and just stuck together as a team and motivated each other. Or Joss realized finally how destructive his attitude was... and toned it down. But it obviously came back for Avengers.

@@Alaby one actor did actually spoke up in a tweet responding to a tweet by variety on the recent Joss article “Ray Fisher Accuses Joss Whedon of ‘Abusive, Unprofessional’ Behavior on ‘Justice League’ Set” Alan Tudyk (who plays Wash) quote tweeted: “Wasn’t there, but I have known Joss for 17 years, I honestly can’t even imagine it and I have a pretty good imagination”. Tweet had 63.4K likes including a like by James Gunn. Ray Fisher reacts to it all and goes off on James Gunn for liking it.. Alan deleted the tweet and Gunn apologizes to Fisher for liking it. This was a couple of months ago.. the only time I saw a Firefly actor spoke up.

@@Alaby Scarlett Johansson had also spoke up in favor of Joss not long ago on the Avenger set.. but I can’t remember the details of it. Most have stayed silent.. probably due to the controversy of it all.

​@@talynstarburst2l2l2lyeah. And Ray Fisher's claims were debunked, which casts doubt on all of this. He said his skin was lightened by Joss for JL, but it wasn't. The whole movie was lightened because the studio said it was too dark. He was asked to say "Booyah!" but, Joss didn't write that line. When asked what Joss said that was racist, Ray Fisher told the investigators nothing. Maybe he commiserated with Charisma at that convention they met at, and she kind of felt emboldened to write that letter, but his allegations have fallen apart. Hers are vague and about reduced screen time, not assault. If Joss did fire her for being pregnant, that's kind of sh*tty, but he says he didn't, and he usually has integrity according to others. She was in every season of Angel. She did get written into a bed, but I read that she said her doctor said she couldn't work nights or weekends anymore, so what really happened? I'm sorry. I still feel for all of this stress she felt. I just don't know if it was technically "abuse."

David Boreanaz looks great still too. She was great as Cordy

Yeah. She was great as Cordelia. I'm surprised she was unhappy, too. I'm sure Joss was also surprised by all of this. I still don't know how she was traumatized.

So sad to hear this type of stuff was going on behind the scenes. Makes enjoying the show a little harder and surprising that such a great show was still able to be produced.

@couldn't think of a username I don't know about massively improved, my favourite arc of hers is right after Xander and Willow were outed. I miss that venom and we never really saw it on Angel, ever. An understandable turn after she gets a real sense of duty from the visions and that one time she had an unfiltered take on just how many people in LA are suffering.. but Lilah thoroughly eclipses her IMO

@@Onigirli he is probably referring to epsiode when she chooses to become half demon instead of normal happy successful life in order to help angel and those that need help a far cry from cordelia of season 1 episode 1 who is really quite mean character esp towards willow. Hence massive improved character almost.to point of being unrecognisable to her original persona

@@Onigirli i just rewatched both shows and i totally agree!! joss really wasn’t sure how to write her into the “good guy” character archetype working with angel while also keeping her “meanest bitch in sunnydale” vibe. nobody was as cutting as her in buffy. i loved her character development (up to the infamous point) but sunnydale cordy is underrated.

@@dwideschrude9025 if my memory is right the reason she did Angel at all when she was offered it was cause she grew tired of being the bitch like she had been on Buffy and wanted character development on Angel and so Joss gave it to her i can respect him for that. i do agree on what they did with her character what the fuck? i never did like how Angel Ended cause it needed to be 2 hrs long not one hour the same with Buffy but that wasn't Whedon's fault that was the networks they refused to give it to him

There's not many white women who would put their bank accounts at risk to back up a black man. Charisma Carpenter is to be commended. She would do Cordelia proud.

@@gabelogan5877 are you kidding? they all do in hollywood. its called virtue signaling. if you DONT do it you're screwed.

@@timothy790110 Lol. I love you trolls. Keep up the good work.

@@timothy790110 If you and traitor party don't bow to Nazi tRump ur screwed

@@lreyla In Hollywood it's the opposite, you have to be anti-Trump and pro-Pedophiles because the Pedophiles run Hollywood.

What did she go through?

Does it show that, though? I agree that she probably feels anxiety about this. I don't know that anyone meant her harm, though. We have no evidence of that.

Yeah. She & some friends were attacked by a guy before she was even on Buffy

@@kimberlyjeanne9456 she's even spoken about that as well

That I empathize with her for. I don't really get what happened with her and the crew of Angel.

I still don't know what happened.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I support Charisma, but was she abused? I mean, her role was reduced. It sounds like there were differences of opinion.

@@bmcharmed I never knew all of that happened . Kind of puts a downer on the show now ... a show which I loved .

@@ohmythatsweird Both BtVS and AtS have issues and most of those iisues stem from Joss. However, it helps to remember that TV shows are made by large collaborative efforts. There are plenty of good, talented people who helped create the good portions we love. Marti Noxon being a perfect example. Joss only wanted Wllow and Tara as college "experimentation" and didn't want to hire. Amber because he didn't find her skinny "bird-like" (in his words) or attractive enough to get his jollies off on his lesbian fetishistic fantasy despite Amber being the best for the job. Marti fought for Amber to get the job and for Willow/Tara to be treated as respectfully as the other relationships. So a lot of people did a lot of good things with the show. Don't allow Joss to ruin it for you. You can still love the show just be aware that, like almost all media, it has some problematic elements that deserve calling out.

@@bmcharmed Yep of course you are right. I suppose its when you grow up with these shows and have developed such good and strong memories around the show and the time period in your life ,you hate to have it sullied in any way.

@@bmcharmed Although I believe CC, Ray Fisher, James Marsters and the people who supported them and their stories. I believe Michelle Trachtenberg to be full of shit. She made her claim and not one person has confirmed there was any such rule in place. NOT ONE PERSON. No other actors, no crew, no writers, no producers. I agree that Whedon was/is/can be an asshole to work for. There are far too many stories for that not to be true. But until anyone corroborates the story of an 'unwritten rule' that implies Whedon was a sexual threat to underage girls, I'm saying it's bull.

@@bmcharmed Lol. Jesus Christ, the victimhood. She was massively unprofessional by getting pregnant without giving notice she was going to do so. Of fucking course it would affect the show. Whedon literally re-wrote the whole show and season to accommodate her and keep her in work. He could have simply killed her off or made her disappear. She wasn't *forced* to do anything. I don't think you know what that word means. Why do women pretend to be fucking infants when it suits them? They should really re-christen the "metoo" movement the "mememememovement". Because it's nothing but narcissism and incredibly rich, privileged women using their victim power to ruin men's lives.

JW is a fraud.

Yikes. No. He's not a sh*tbag. He's a human being. He's made mistakes, but I still don't know how he abused Charisma Carpenter.

@@TamaraKane He wanted her to get an abortion or he was going to write her off the show. HES A FUCKING SHIT BAG!

Yeah, and the plot should involve a pizza delivery to a freaky pool party. I think you know where this is going... *softcore music*

Agreed. I loved her on the show, but she still didn't give details. So many commenters are ready to throw him under the bus, but I still sincerely don't know what he supposedly did. He didn't commit a crime. No assault. No sexual harassment.

@@TamaraKane Yes! And I think too that it was the harsh nineties when they were making this show so everybody was tough to handle anyone acting like that. And these women were tough to handle him treating them like that because of it, I think.

What happened to her?

I feel sorry for her, but what happened?

@@TamaraKane basixally joss was bullying her and 0ther cast memebers a lot of the time ro the point where she was not comfortable to say she was pregnent untill you basically could tell that she was. Hr was not a nice person to work with apparently

Yeah. I'd like to reread it. I still don't know what happened to her or how it could be considered part of the metoo moment.

Well, I'm with Joss AND Charisma. I just wish they could have worked this out before the Nevers got wrecked by it.

Agreed, and I still don't know what happened to her that is supposed to be abuse. She was on every season of Angel. I guess he could have written a pregnancy story, or written around it more, but some of his stories were planned for years and maybe it just didn't fit well with the finalé.

False equivalency. Kubrick and Duvall made peace.

​@@user-lb9xw4xf2q yes, and it makes no sense that there's no openness to forgiveness in this case. I still don't know what Joss did.

It's odd. I don't really get it.

Yeah. I don't fully get the upset. Some characters are killed off at any given time on shows, but they're grateful to be there. She was on every season of Angel. This feels like massive entitlement spanning 20+ years. And I say this as someone who loves the woman!

By the sound of it, he was a prick to guys, too.

U a rick and morty fan? Dan harmon forced sex on the women or they got fired, not to mention the pedophilia, but he runs around “nazis r bad”…. Notice how words and actions r different, i say this, if u say “i support women” guess what ur not doing while u say that? Not supporting women…. My cousin “im the funniest person on earth” well she wasnt being the funniest person on earth while saying that….. do it, dont say u do it, same with lefties…. They talk a lot, and the act different when pushed….. kinda funny…

@@theradgegadgie6352 There were now recent complaints from other jobs he did, weren't there?

@@nictheartist I have no idea, I'm afraid.

He's just a control freak. If you played nice with him, he'd make you feel like part of the in crowd. If you didn't, you were exiled. It's the only way to explain why some people seemed to really get along with him some others had such negative experiences with him.

Not all actors.He has favorites. As charisma told in her post, joss likes to pit his favorites from one another. Which reminds me of one of his quotes before, when he said that he got inspired from things happening on the set, specially from the cast and crew's personal lives. So joss creating tensions inside btvs and ats sets (toxic ones) is not far from reality. Christian Kane and David Boreanaz got pissed at joss when their good friend Glenn Quinn was used by joss to "flair up" both of them so joss could get the proper emotions on their fight scene. That was around Ats S5, i think. Joss was also verbally abusive. He yelled at Smg everytime she protested or questioned some things at the script that she felt buffy wont do i.e. sex with Parker when she's not yet over Angel. Or the balcony sex between spike and buffy that made Smg felt she was pushed into the limits as an actress and she didnt like it for buffy's char (even though that scene was Marti Noxon's idea but joss had final approval on every story in his shows. Btw Noxon was rumored to be one of joss's mistress at that time and joss let Marti ran over btvs S6). No doubt joss is an asshole. And his feminist persona is nothing but a facade so he cld have this "nerd to cool guy" image. We can see this in his tropes in his shows: Nerd males sexually awkward and they were the ones being turned from "losers to winners". If not winners, at least guys who dont suffer much bad consequence at all i.e. Xander and Spike. And these two males are the joss's version of "true lover boys". Apparently, these male chars treated their female partners intentionally horrible. And despite that, these two chars still didnt have much bad karmas on their side. For me that's like a reflection of joss's philosphy. As long as you are the favorite, you are under the cloak of invisibility. So as long there are people who still think joss is the "cool guy", he doesnt deserve to be punished. I think, that was in his mindset then, so he had to maintain this "woke bae" and feminist guy attitude so the women he mistreated would still protect him.

He likes some actors, especially those with vaginas.

@@gfaqndb very well said. Copy, paste, and spread the word lol. But I’m glad Sarah felt the same way I did about the sex scenes

@@KiaraWilliamsX yes. In one of the daillies on S6, (i think that was on balcony sex), after the shoot, she commented afterwards that "this show had too much sex scenes", as if she was disgusted or something about how btvs became a soft-porn fest. She had interviews about this where she couldnt hide her disgust. On 2002, she said the buffy/spike sex scenes made her "degraded" as an actress. But that interview was received in mix by two major fanbases (Bangel vs Spuff). Bangel and other buffy fans sided with SMG while all spuffies taunted her and even compared her other provocative roles in Cruel Intentions and Harvard Man where they said, SMG had NO right to feel "degraded" in those spuffy sex scenes if she was used to these kind of scenes in her other projects. They even said that james marsters have been telling reporters and fans that smg used "to wiggle" on his croctch to make him go crazy implying that she enjoyed those sex scenes. Nonetheless, i think smg's point was that she felt buffy (as a char) wont do such "low" things coz it wld be out of her char. Only now we can assume that Buffy's regression on S6 was done as sort of "punishment" for smg's rebellious behavior. And since evryone knew that they couldnt kill buffy for good, this kind of char assassination is much better than death. And anyone can notice, Aly Hannigan (joss favorite actress) had major char story arc for S6 and so was Spike (marsters, aly and her husband alexis are few of joss fave actors who used to go in his house to do shakespeare readings). Only Smg, charisma and david boreanaz were the main leads who were very vocal that they didnt join this shakespeare readings. To think about it, both smg and charisma's chars suffered char assassination in later seasons. The "potentials arc" was meant to say that "buffy is no longer the sole chosen one" or "she's not special anymore" coz there are many of them now. (Btw, the potentials arc really ruined the show for others too) David's Angel, by nature, is a tragic character and david has been a workhorse so he learnt by that time not to take things personal even if his character has been ridiculed or made suffered. So there. Those were only few of observations i gathered from different sides of btvs and ats fandom all through these years. And i bet, there are many more to uncover for us to see the real picture how much toxicity joss and his friends created on the set of these shows.

@@gfaqndb interesting, it ruins it a bit for me because I remember from the first time seeing what was happening to be…repulsive. I thought he was just a lazy, perverted, writer but to know he probably had bad intentions behind it, knowing it would disappoint the majority and soil the legacy makes it that much worse.

That storyline happened before her pregnancy. Not sure what happened. She was on the last season.

Seriously. Dude’s fandom was like a Jonestown cult.

@@ShinRyojin I expect nothing less from over the top ideologists

It seems like because he had loyal fans, people especially wanted him to suffer and fail. And people hate anyone willing to openly side with women. I still don't know what he did wrong. Zero criminal accusations to date. He says he didn't fire her, didn't call her fat. There are two sides here.

You’re a creep, she’s a human being and your hair sweat is not a nice comment to make…

@@rainbowsandlove OK. Let's not overreact and name-call.

@@rainbowsandlove He never said she wasn't human and you are a total snowflake

@@dexterlacroy4132 no, not a snowflake, a respectable person. There’s a difference, incel…

​@@rainbowsandlove Except you don't qualify as respectable person by calling him a creep simply for expressing his attraction to another person. You know well there are actual creeps out there and because that's serious you shouldn't abuse the term.