Charlie X Vaggie: Main Couple Syndrome 

they seem like a wonderful pair of friends😃

Cute, but boring

Historians will say they were best friends (and none of us would be able to disagree)

Some of it could be written better, but it looks like a lot of people came into it expecting it to be one way, and are upset that their headcanon did come true. Chaggie has an overall beautiful relationship of love and support, and both of them raise each other up. They're not perfect, and individually, they're both flawed, but it seems some people are confusing them as being flawed as a bad thing on writing. Some of it is not excellent writing, but overall, there's nothing wrong with writing flawed characters. Imo, they're relationship is pretty good to good

boring as hell honestly. Wanted a little more from them.

she also tells her not to sing and she sings lol

Yeah Chaggie's dynamic has been... pretty established for years now and is basically the same in the show as it is in the pilot.

Hey, she told Charlie not to make the deal and she didn’t make it, so there’s that.

@@Adam-326you haven’t watched Episode 7/8 yet have you???

@@LadyLeomon I’m talking about in the pilot. Vaggie wasn’t there to stop her in episode 7.

You mean a yes man

@@catus-cactus exactly

yeah I think in part that's do to how much the first season tried to cram in story wise (establish the hotel, establish the other overlords & the exterminators/who murdered the angel, going to heaven, then a big fight against adam), if they just had season one focused on establishing the hotel in hell and finding people who genuinely want to work/be in it, then they could have had way more time to flesh out vaggie and her relationship with charlie

Such a great point, I hadn't thought of it like that

Yeah

The same idiot, who canceled "Inside job".

I think it's just a classic case of corporations trying to save money. I'm pissed too, these characters have so much personality. I REALLY wanted to see Angel's shady mob side more, and see him really start to embrace a change slowly. But NOOOO

That is enough time to make a good story. It's vizipop fault for rushing

The same person who decided that this should be the case for damn near every show for the past few years.

​@@plantcrone9662 This is true. There's a lot of reveals that could've been more spread out since they were already signed for 2 seasons when they started

When you do worse then Rebecca, then you’re fucked.

@@Barakon I don't even think Rebecca was bad tbh.

Not really? It’s not like she hates herself or anything. She just worries about what would happen when Charlie finds out her secret. The longer she goes without not knowing, the worse her reaction would be.

husker literally says she hates herself@@Adam-326

@@Pinkywinkykinky Okay, and? Angel literally said that he was fine and didn’t need help. What I’m saying is that Husker was making assumptions, which can be (and most likely are) wrong. Vaggie, as far as we can tell, doesn’t hate herself.

Be thankful the network didn't cancel it!

Could have been worse. Netflix might have shot out the entire show within an hour.

Fans can't wait for one episode each week

They desperately needed a full 13 episodes

​@@MonsterPrincessLala 13 episodes getting to know the characters better, then season finale is Charlie and Vaggie getting the invite to heaven

i literally didnt know they were gfs until i saw someone on twitter say they were

Pffft. It took me until Charlie told her dad that Vaggie was her girlfriend to at all see how they were anything more than friends in execution. Like the whole supportive couple shit could've been just as much applied to besties or sisters.

With is also the same song Charlie was singing with her dad. They didin't even care enought for this couple to make a new song. 😂

I thought they were friends

Legitimately could not have told you they were dating when I first saw the pilot. Compare that to Helluva Boss where Stolas and Blitzø (friends with benefits who both have a mutual crush on each other) and Moxxie and Millie (married) had established their relationships with each other within their own pilot. You knew immediately Stolas was horny for Blitzø and you knew Millie was very overprotective of Moxxie. Vaggie and Charlie just ain't it, which sucks bc I kinda like them, but it's hard to enjoy their dynamic because there isn't MUCH OF IT.

Yeah because they definitely missed it in 1st season.

I mean just look at Millie from HB :/

I really want to see her go on a redemption arc and make a triumphant return to heaven as an angel again.

​@@TheManWhoErasedHisNane The show just started you can't put everything all in at once and I'm excited for Hazbin Hotel Season 2 also you can't expect beginners to know everything.

They're neither

bro they literally just act like a normal couple, usually couples arent all kisses the entire time

Or in others esscenarios they just broke up or the ship doesn't become interesting anymore

​@@cinderelenn kinda what makes it uninteresting

They're really not toxic at all

I mean, Charlie and Vaggie are a yin-yang couple trope. It's just bad writing I think

@@roxycauldwell544 Exactly what I implied, they don't complement each other well enough

I think the appeal for Bob and Linda is that they are their own person. Like they can be on their own, so when they do come together, it feels special because you know they’re together because they want to be together not because they have to be together. For the M&M on Helluva a boss, their relationship works because of how they both feel dedicated to one another. If one gets hurt or goes missing you know that the other is going to do everything in their power to ensure their safety. They both adore each other and it’s sweet. However, for Hazbin Hotel, while Vaggie’s love and focus is on Charlie, Charlie’s love and focus is in the hotel. It also doesn’t help that Vaggie’s whole character arc revolves around Charlie. It makes it feel like Vaggie NEEDS to be with her instead of wanting to. Because without Charlie she’s not much of a character. She’s basically tethered to her. The thing about Charlie is that while she’s a loving and caring girlfriend, she’s loving and caring to everybody around her. That’s why all the romantic moments fall flat because she treats her friends no different than she treats her girlfriend. Honestly I didn’t even know they were a couple in the pilot episode for months and that energy carries on in the show.

@@ajjean2720 SO TRUE BESTIE

​@@ajjean2720👏👏👏

That would've been a very interesting dynamic :o or maybe at least more interesting than what we have in the show. But then again, with the whole deal of vaggie not the noing of herself as more than charlie's armor, i'm scared that might've been just pearl/rose quartz again

I expected them to get together during the show, until she introduced Vaggie to her Dad as her gf 😅 Give us more Vaggie screentime where she gets to shine on her own

Ugh they sleep in the same bed in their room in the hazbin hotel.

Charlie introduced Vaggie as her GF to her dad, though?

@@caitlynvoice5129 This thought process was when the first two episodes were the only ones watchable.

The fact I read your comment right when that was said, I'm crying 😂

I feel called out

I mean. Let them be boring. Let them be cute. Not every WxW ships needs to have misunderstandings and drama. And heck we got the drama with the angel reveal. I just wish they were a bit more cute and affectionate.

btw i'm a Chalastor shipper

I think this is actually good, showing that Vaggie doesn't need Charlie to be an interesting character Just because they date doesn't mean everything about them needs to be about their relationship

@@rubyquaix it is a 100% , don’t get me wrong . The issue for me is that by consequence I’m not interested on seeing them on camera together

Maybe Vaggie to Charlie is somewhat the “Millie”

​@@lady_magnoliauwu1169 this is fair. I feel like they only made him aromantic ace because they knew the pilot set these two up with more chemistry. It's also probably why we get that weirdly forced dad don't early on that feels or if left field

U honestly want him to talk about Radioapple. THAT ship has POTENTIAL.

This comment is so good, holy 😂

Second this one^^

@@dapperdabber13 No, it doesn’t. Alastor is aroace(at the zero side) and he has been said/shown to be repulsed at any advances.

​@@catherinemoon1244​ Dude, I think he was joking. Besides, asexual people can still engage in sex, romantic people can still date. It happens and it does not change that they are either more, it instead means they're mostly uncaring to it. And I think a lot of people would be disgusted when someone they don't want to engage in sexual activities with talks about doing such things to you, along with being uncomfortable when you're put on the spot being told you should do something with someone you don't like or want. It's uncomfortable when that happens. Especially when it goes past a joke and becomes super reoccurring to the point of peer pressure. Im not saying Alastor is getting peer pressured by others to date or even engage in sex with another person, but he is definitely disgusted by lust filled actions. Aside from that, there's generally no harm in imagining fictional characters in relationships, unless you uncomfortably force it upon other people and break boundaries, there's more to relationships, dating or otherwise, than just romance and sex. And there's multiple ways a group of people can interpret one character. By having head canons upon this one character, we are not hurting a real person. And if you're hurt by one person interpreting a character differently than you, than you're kinda over sensitive and should get over it. The world is not going to morph around your ideas and it is unfair to think it will

☝️This

Yeah it definitely could’ve used 1-2 fillers showing events between the episodes. Even as someone who’s invested in the characters it feels like we should’ve had an In between.

@@TheManWhoErasedHisNane honestly they could have done it like ATLA with their filler episodes still kinda being relevant to the plot as they are following their goal through travel, just happen to pit stop and find random characters/situations now and then, but its not like its a complete pause to the whole mission. for Hazbin they could have had a filler that still was relevent to the plot and makes sense on why its there, but be enough away from the main story that u can take a breather and just enjoy the adventure with little consequence or worry

Or a continuity, coherence or writing supervisor for that matter...

And learn from Helluva Boss’s mistakes in its decent yet flawed Season 2.

Considering how many cartoons nowadays dip in quality after their first season, I wouldn't hold my breath. Helluva Boss started off okay, but slowly got worse and worse with every episode. Now, it's at the point where many people want to love it, but can't because of its shitty characters and writing.

@@superstarultra28 And the worst part is that Hazbin suffers from the same, or most, of the problems in Helluva. I know it only had 8 episodes, but frantically squeezing everything doesn't help your product and they are not making a web comic or a YT series here, this is the big league, a show picked by a big company, we no longer have to cut them some slack. They should have made a better job for Hazbin. Many had high hopes for the project and it turns out to be as badly written as the spinoff they do for free on YT.

In animation normally cut bugget not make it bigger

Lucky you. I can't even with that *very short* song.

The song made me cry, but true it was the first time I really felt they were a couple

Im not a chaggie shipper but i accept that its Canon so

me too

To me it was a tragedy. I wish I was Vaggie had a great desire to return to heaven, and Charlie was willing to help her. But no, we get scissoring instead. That's what happens when your show is commandeered by writers that are shallow and superficial.

I wish they made this a plot point , like vaggie is insecure and well after being abandoned depends on loving charlie to find an identity but then this behavior becomes called out and vaggie actually finds an identity outside of charlie , it's millie all over again

Let’s just hope that with the time limit gone we can have more development episodes.

Noooo verbalase x Charlie=better😡😡😡

The peanut butter is dry, and the jelly is runny. Not even a good PB&J

​@@surrcram Yeah it's like a PP&J where the ingredients are running low and the bread is old. There's nothing else and I won't complain but I don't like it enough to be satisfied

pb&j is groundbreaking

PB&J but it’s from a Low brand and the bread is partially stale

His makes no sense considering in the pilot nothing happened between them 🤔 stop making things up

​@@Vaggiescoochsniffer Its literally them calling each other babe and Vaggie being supportive while Charlie cant contain her excitement. Like. Its kinda cute.

Really? I feel like Vaggie had no lines in the pilot

@@MonsterPrincessLala it was more the way they interacted with each other.

@@MonsterPrincessLala She had plenty wdym watch it again. She talks to Charlie, lectures Angel, teaches Angel about Alastor, threatens Alastor, talks to Charlie about not staying with Alastor, and fhen just stays grumpy. She talks way more than Nifty at least-

Yeah, and they were supportive of each other and didn't have drama between each other and looked pretty damn established. Yet somehow they were more interesting than our hero couple with the same type of supportive, non-dramatic, established relationship.

Adam giving a genuine smile to Lute before he died made me more invested in their relationship than Charlie and Vaggie's

Dude, SAME!!! I don't even think that was intended. I actually felt more when Lute called Adam's name as he died and he smiled at her.

Right?!?

I genuinely love Lute and Adam, the small detail of her doing backup dancing/flying with him during Hell is Forever, as well as the little fist bump implies such a long history between them.

Yeah we needed some in between parts, closest we had were in EP3 & EP4 with everything kinda moving on until the end.

No it's explicitly the writing and what Viv has decided to do with that time, come back after seeing shows like Edgerunners and Over The Garden Wall & tell me if you still think it's the length.

Exactly! And I hated how they basically never actually talked things out in the second to last episode. Here’s the muddled sequence of events: Charlie finds out that Vaggie was an exterminator. Charlie cries about it and is cold to Vaggie for a minute. Charlie talks to Rosie about the situation. Charlie forgives Vaggie. There’s literally NO scene where this couple takes a moment to breathe and to talk over the situation themselves, and that’s a problem. Vaggie never has a moment where she properly apologises to Charlie for the deception and lying, and Charlie barely has any time where we can see her process her emotions regarding Vaggie’s past. This would have been an interesting hurdle for them to surpass, but it just falls flat, and Charlie just forgives Vaggie in an instant despite them not even talking over it?? How am I even supposed to pretend like they’re a couple when they literally have 0 heartfelt scenes where they’re alone together (aside from a 30 second song before the battle)? Charlie has had more of these scenes with Alastor, Rosie and Lucifer than with the person she’s “supposed to trust most”. Jeez.

@@justausername5749 After the reveal, I legit thought they were gonna be appart until season two. I audibly chuckled when they got back together

Charlie is so stuck in her own head that I can 100% believe she either didn't ask Vaggie about her origin, or did once, and accepted at face value whatever vaguely believable lie Vaggie told her. That's her thing, she trusts everyone and would never consider that someone's circumstances would lead them to lie like that.

​@@justausername5749Yes! Like Vaggie's reveal was so big to Charlie but it felt so skipped over the next episode. "Oh you're one of the people that killed my people, welp that's okay let me just talk to someone that's NOT you and we'll be good." Hopefully next season it'll be better

​@@justausername5749 honestly, the fact that Charlie has more chemistry with just about every person she's held in extended conversation with in the show is really sad. They don't have to be gooey to each other all the time, but they're most tender moment was literally in the finale of the show, and the first kiss we ever saw was in episode 6! A little kiss on the cheek as Charlie leaves, or Charlie calling Vaggie some pet names rather than Vaggie calling her hun or babe (also missed opportunity for some Spanish pet names like Mi Amor or Cariño), something that makes it feel like they're actually in love and not like they only dating because everyone assumed they were after they'd been friends for a while 😔

But with less of an ego and more of a temper

Yeah, I think Vaggie should learn to act for herself before being in a relationship, and the fact that she's THIS self-sacrificing doesn't feel healthy, it's just more subtle than the toxicity of Stolitz so people don't pay much attention to it. It honestly makes me feel bad for Vaggie. I think if we got that arc, instead of just a couple songs... she might've been a better character for it, and Chaggie might've been a better couple for it.

I totally agree! Rather than doubling down on Vaggie’s codependency, the show needed to set up that Vaggie’s relationship with Charlie enables her independence, rather than inhibits it.

@@SanakudouYeah I agree with this criticism, she’s kinda like Millie but without the individualism. She tends to be a supporter rather than taking the initiative, and even when she does it’s generally still generally with the same supporting mindset.

Agree, I hope she gets more character development and we get to learn more about her. We got more development on Angel dust than Vaggie who is literally one of the main characters!

She hasn’t even got her own song without a duet or her own episode

"White bread of yuri" xD Apt description, though.

They’re cute, not a ship you’d go crazy over but still nice to see.

You have 69 likes lol​@@js66613

This is my biggest gripe with 6 to 8 episodes a season, NOT ENOUGH FILLER. We keep going from Point A to Point B but we to enjoy the journey between those points and utilize that to develop characters, lore, setting, whatever, rather than get through as many plot points as possible in as little time as possible. This is NOT how stories should work!

you people still dont know the definition of filler 🤦‍♀ in order for a show to have filler it must be adapted from a manga/book/comic. Hazbin Hotel and all other original series cant have filler, all content is CANON. having slice of life and slow moments doesnt mean its a filler. a filler is new content that doesn't exist in the original source material. a filler can be a high tension brutal fight scene it doesn't always have to be slow.

@@DP-mv7phEXCATLY!!! its pisses me off so much whenever slow-down or cool-off episodes get called filler because that literally not true!!! calling an episode filler only makes actual sense in the context of an adaptation. Otherwise thats just canon context, its character building its setting up and establishing character dynamics, its giving you a reason to actually CARE about of these characters in the first place!!! I miss when tv shows weren’t so obsessed with moving the plot at breakneck speeds, i miss when we were allowed to sit down and really to know these characters before being asked to care about big shake ups to the plot

⁠@@Famously5518JJBA PT5 did this pretty well imo by giving each gang member their own episodes, though I’m not sure how well it would’ve worked here.

@@DP-mv7phnot really Avatar the last airbender is the epitome of good filler done right without outsource

Chaggie being an established couple isn't the problem. It's the lackluster writing.

the show isnt a romance, it didnt need a romance subplot to add to everything else going on

Honestly, I'm glad that a show's main couple is already established. It gets rid of all of the romance cliches out of the way. I do think it would be more interesting to have a realistic relationship between two adults who all ready know each other well and use that

Hard pass for me, I don't think Hazbin needed another "will they won't they" couple when Helluva has that down pat with Stoliz

I for one agree, I feel like if we started the show with them falling for each other, we would be able to see as the audience why they work well as a couple. I always loved to watch how a couple gets together then see them stay together for the rest of the series

Yeah, I was confused about the message of the song because I never doubted that Vaggie loved Charlie and would do anything for her. It mainly just restated what we already knew.

Yet the entire fandom ships Rapunzel with Cass...

@@valentinkambushev4968 ugh I honestly hate that ship so much. I was ECSTATIC that two FRIENDS told each other they love each other, because that is SO rare and then people just RAN with that. To the point where they tried to have ANY possible excuse to make it canon. It was honestly gross behavior. It's fine to ship it, but to the extent people in the fandom did went too far. To the point you were called homophobic if you didn't like it. Cassunzel had NO indication of being romantic at least from what I saw. Eugenezul on the other hand, WAS very well established. Even in Legend of Korra, I could see the hints of Korrasami before the finale. There was just nothing from Cass and Raps that indicated "yeah they could get togther." I always saw them as sisters.

@@TheRibottoStudios I prefer Rapunzel and Flynn. And I share your frustration with the word "love" having zero platonic applications in media anymore. Every time I have one of my characters say they love another character and they mean it platonically, I feel like I _have_ to throw in something to the effect of "you're like the sister I never had," or it will definitely be misinterpreted, even if there is zero romantic tension between them.

​@@TheRibottoStudios When it comes to Tangled, a lot of the artists and storyboarders that worked on the show purposefully put sapphic coded moments in the series. One of them even said that there are a lot of sapphics working on the show and that whenever they get to draw Cassandra they infuse it with as much gay as possible. So there's definitely something there, the shippers didn't make it up. It was put there intentionally (even if not by the writers). Like there were Cassunzel scenes that literally paralleled Rapunzel's scenes with Eugene. I find it odd to call people gross for this. It's fine if you don't see it but the people who do are not wrong or gross for it. The Cassunzel ship also existed in season 1 way before they told each other that they love each other, so it wasn't because people think the word "love" only exists for romantic purposes. I think you're really misrepresenting the fandom and origin of the ship here. I'm sure there are awful people in the fandom but they're not the majority and that also goes for every ship, there are bad apples in every fandom. For example, I think the people who claim that shipping Cassunzel is wrong because they're "sisters" are just as bad as the people who claim that not shipping Cassunzel automatically makes you homophobic. Cass and Rapunzel are not sisters by any definition of the word. They are not related by blood, they are not adopted sisters and they are not step-sisters. They had the same caretaker at one point but at separate times. They were not raised together as sisters. If you view their relationship as "sisterly" in the sense that it's platonic then that's fine but trying to turn it into something incestuous when it isn't is just very frustrating and shitty. Why can't people just say they ship or don't ship something without making it a moral dilemma. "if you don't ship this you're homophobic" "if you ship this you endorse incest" It's all just very ridiculous. I also want to say that having two girls in a romantic relationship in mainstream media is far more rare than seeing two girls be friends. That's why so many non-canon gay ships are popular, because there are hardly any canon ones. Also nobody in their right mind genuinely thought Cassunzel was gonna be canon, like this is Disney we're talking about. It was very obvious she was gonna end up with Eugene and Cassunzel shippers knew that, they just wanted to have fun with their ship in fanon, then there's the people complaining about it like "why can't people be friends anymore" as if the majority of female relationships in media aren't platonic lol. I mean I never see this energy when it's an m/f relationship, like Ron and Kim got together after three whole seasons of them being just friends in Kim Possible, I don't recall anyone crying about "why can't they just be friends" then. Anyways, if you only saw Cassunzel as platonic and interpret their love as such then more power to you but that doesn't make you any more right or wrong than the people who interpret it as romantic. I personally ship both Cassunzel and New Dream, I think they're both really great in different ways. I absolutely love the way Eugene and Rapunzel’s relationship was portrayed in the show, they were so supportive and loving and never failed to be engaging, so I definitely agree that Chaggie would be a far more interesting couple if they followed their lead. I also enjoy HuskerDust wayy more than Chaggie, I think it's because we actually see them bond and have actual conversations with each other on screen, which unfortunately is not true for Chaggie.

Realistic doesn't necessarily makes for good storytelling. Sure irl you would want this kind of healthy wholesome relationship but it makes for boring ass characters with no conflict or more interesting interacting than "I love you unconditionally".

Ironically even Cassandra and Rapunzel had more chemistry.

Agreed indeed and platonic even

If only they knew how high divorce rates & domestic violence happens in Lesbian relationships

@@Karlos1234ify and *now* it's homophobic

​@@Karlos1234ifyLesbians trying to not beat the Living shit out of eachother for 0.22222 seconds(Impossible):

​@@nanuqo2006no no they got a point fr

@@Karlos1234ifyinteresting fact, these statistics aren’t really correct. The study that showed an increase in having *been* in a toxic and abusive relationship, was done not on just lesbians but WLW in general. And in this study it was shown that on average bisexual women and other sexualities that include attraction to women as a woman, where talking about relationships with men that were abusive not so much women. That said, it is statistically shown that lesbians divorce a bit more than other couples, what the exact reason is is unsure, though it’s interesting to note that most lesbians that divorce do so on good terms and cheating was a given only as a very small percentage of the reason for said divorce which is a statistic that’s higher in straight couples who divorce. Just mentioning it here because it’s such a wildly taken out of context statistic used to put lesbians down whilst it isn’t even true.

She is basically Millie with less backbone but also more interesting imo

@@_eccentric_ of course she is better than mills as a character

@@DanielJames-fh6yc I suppose Charlie is a less pathetic version of Moxxie. (I love my boy but I will be honest.)

@@toadlord8594 yes you it spot on. This is why I said... Truth seekers Moxie> all Moxxies

@@toadlord8594 if they kept evolving from Truth seekers and made him better

Honestly I would ship Lute and Adam if he didn't constantly throw misogynistic insults at her. I get that he's supposed to be awful but I just can't ship a woman with a man who sees her as lesser. I really love Lute though, I hope she gets more to do with Adam gone in S2.

@@ohood1788I suppose I just see the potential since their Villain dynamic just works well and even viewed his death scene where Lute genuinely cries over his death and the genuine smile he gave her at the end. Even evil have loved Ones being one of my favorite tropes.

I don't think she really cared, but I gotcha. Even before the final battle Lute showed her bloodthirsty side and even Adam had to tell her to calm down. So they have things in common. She's no saint. It is sad how inspite of that the pairing had more chemistry than the main couple.

I feel the same way.

@@camerondalton1495Personally I’d disagree with that specially since Viziepop has herself confirmed that they ARE BEST Friends.

Yeah geuinely I feel like a lot of issues can boil down to straight up not having enough time. You just cannot fit a season's worth of development into like 8 episodes, unless like each episode is an hour long.

Remember though, it's still on the creator/writer to write their story within the limits that they're given. So Viv and her writers are still at fault for trying to cram all of their ideas into just eight episodes instead of picking a couple of ideas and focusing on them. Shifting all the blame on the studio doesn't change that. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off also only had eight episodes, but it has a much more coherent and streamlined story because the writers knew exactly what story they wanted to tell and focused on it. Viv has a lot of ideas that she isn't willing to sacrifice, so HH is over-bloated and unfocused.

​@@crazycookie4645This and who and what wasted part of the time? Carmilla and her undeserved song.

​@@crazycookie4645 You're absolutely right! I feel like most people who watch HH and/or HB always skimp over the fact that Vivzie just.. isn't such a great writer in general. Now, don't get me wrong, it's impressive she somehow managed to get her show onto a streaming service, and her animation skills are decent. Even with how complex her character designs are! The main problem I have with the show is the pacing and writing.. During episode 2 we had a whole montage of character mentioning character and then us getting introduced to that character. It barely gives the main cast time to breathe and just develop overall. Not to mention, the writing team has like - 8 or 10 members if I recall? And also the large cast, which means the attention gets shifted away from the MCs just so the SCs can push along the plot(s). AND the fact that It's a show about Heaven vs. Hell gives it soo much potential! There are many stories/fabels/myths, etc. she *could* take inspiration from, and some things I came up with myself, such as; - can humans summon demons? If so, what are the consequences? - is there a significant difference between the exterminators and the average angels? - why aren't sinners allowed to leave the Pride Ring? Sorry I'm going on a *bit* of a tangent now 😅 but I hope ya see my point! There's just so much interesting development that could take place IF Vivzie actually wants to listen to her audience, although i'd never see that happening.

no... its a song charlie sings with people she loves and are very important in her life. yall are digging too deep

Yeah, especially since the pilot was such a banger. It had a great premise, a group of super interesting protagonists, amazing character design, etc, but the time constraints hurt the series so bad. They tried to shove a ton of different arcs and story beats into a mini-series time frame and ended up with a spaghetti squash mess of half baked issues that practically resolve themselves instantly, leaving the viewer barely any time to even process the emotional impact of what just happened. I seriously hope they get more runtime in s2 so we can actually dive into characters/storylines that got zoomed through in s1 Also, they watered down Alastor. There, I said it. He was so much more 1920s in the pilot and I miss it

​@@kalyssiaseptember the 1920s carisma was the best part!

​@@kalyssiaseptemberNO, go look at what Over The Garden Wall did with its shorter 10 Episodes, if anything hurt the show, it's Viv and what her team had done with the 8 Episodes they were given, Carmilla for one did not deserved the screentime or her song and putting that in was irresponsible and waste of the precious time and focus on a character.

I agree. I think the main sin this pairing has (despite some missed story beats) is that is is pretty vanilla compared to the other more interesting ships. Like even Lute and Adam had more palpable chemistry and they weren't on screen that much.

Vaggie is an interesting character, she’s literally a fallen Angel, and a lesbian, she’s not boring, you’re just picky and clouded by all of the mlm relationships that you can’t even appreciate the one canon wlw relationship.

@@Vaggiescoochsniffer When did they ever bring up "mlm relationships"?

@@Vaggiescoochsniffer If we are talking mlm or wlw relationships (I had to search these acronyms up lol) I don't care if it is either of the 2 or if its a wlm relationship. Their preferences have nothing to do with it. I don't think that Vaggie being a lesbian is interesting as a character trait, the same way I wouldn't point out if a straight character was straight or if they were a homosexual male. Her character being a fallen angel doesn't do much for me either considering they don't do much with the concept. It's used for some drama between the 2 that just makes them separated for a total of 1 episode for basically 0 purpose considering they just immediately get back together. I genuinely don't know where the mlm relationship stuff came from.

​@@Vaggiescoochsniffer Her being lesbian doesn't mean jack in this series and her being a fallen angel didn't have enough time to be explored to its fullest potential. Stop strawmanding.

@@ArkhamMaster. Her being lesbian is an interesting trait considering Viv has never had any other Lesbian character.

Indeed. We don't know much about her.

You when the protagonist girlfriend was a character before became the protagonist girlfriend. Vaggie is that but without the "character" part

Someday. Honestly, I am wondering if he is going to talk about Avatar ships now that the live-action adaptation is coming.

its not that "ThEy AcT lIkE sIsTeRs", its just how real life couples act after some time, they arent all kisses the entire tike

​@cinderelenn Bruh stop comment hunting. This is a fake couple. It's okay if other people don't like them for writing reasons or the lack of chemistry. Chill.

@@user-bl6oj1hl8i bro I was literally just replying to some comments while watching the video why tf I cant do that

​@@user-bl6oj1hl8iyou guys really don't know what real relationships are do you every relationship isn't always about kissing or acting so lovey dovey surprisingly most of the time couples are chilling and act like friends

Technically despite being more clearly Fallen so is Lucifier, he's still 100% a Seraphim Angel. I think just being in Hell long enough kinda starts to change the physical traits of Angels a bit.

I think this was also proven by the fact that like Adam she was able to curse during the trial and the other angels didn't react.

is the chemistry with other characters in the room with us right now?

My thing is that I like them but I was primed to love them and I just didn't. The show is so worried about speedrunning the plot and delving into angel dust and alastor that we don't get time for Vaggie and Charlie's actual relationship. Like having charlie sing a song about her reaction to the whole angel thing would have been better than the training montage song and the cannibal town song that episode. One because while Carmine's VA is an amazing singer she's not a very important character to get three songs dedicated to her. Spend a song building up Vaggie and Charlie instead. Their voices complement each other really well.

You're fine. If you like it, it's your thing.

Thank you! Take the words right out of my mouth! Kinda same issue I have with couples like hualian. One person devoting their life to their partner isn't cute but seriously unhealthy. And something uncany about how scared Vaggie seems to look during their fight but overall I still wouldn't ship them with someone else for the world because they got loads of potential

profound

Well said.

@@_eccentric_ putting chaggie and hualian together puts it in a new perspective for me. i never realized how... weird it was and how they never heal from their pasts but instead their strong devotion is played off as "True love", but you could say that it's a result of their trauma. hualian is seriously taking it to another level with hua cheng giving his ashes to xie lian, trusting him with his life even though xie lian can just kill him if the ashes ever get destroyed. there's a difference between love and obsession, i just hope that both ships could become a little more healthy.

@@luckhwa exactly, ty! ye that's way wangxian is my bias.

Agreed. Adam was a jerk to Lute at points, but you could tell they did have a relationship. You wanted to know more about them. The problem with Chaggie is that while nice,bthere was nowhere for their relationship to go. The 'breakup' could've been interesting, but they get back together again.

and there it is

@@androidps1440 Do you disagree?

Knowing Viv, ha! But seeing that she is being helped by professional writers 7/24, this time I hope they do something with this LOUD issue.

Ugh, I think Angel x Husker is...kinda cringe? @CipherRage-tp5ql

That the show needs a second season just to get better speaks volumes to Viv writing she's not a bad person just a terrible writer which shows in both hazbin and hellvua boss.

@@isabellegoegebuer2777 same, they're better as friends.

Honestly, Beach City and most of its citizens as a whole weren't that interested. The first season of Amphibia also had a lot of filler, but the frogs and the world as a whole were interesting.

@@valentinkambushev4968yeah most of them felt like npcs than actual characters I’d want to know more about. All the focus and interesting stuff went to all the gems. Even aquamarine for how small her screen time was, ended up still being way more interesting than all of the citizens from beach city. Doesn’t help that the only characters from beach city to get any substantial growth are Lars and Greg

Hazbin Hotel and Steven Universe are on 2 opposite ends of a scale. Steven Universe had too much filler, and would interrupt a serious story to have an episode about Watermelon Steven.

My only issue with the filler was the Steven Bomb format. When you're someone watching the show with like major plot points then a 9 month hiatus to stew. Getting a filler after that is one of the most disappointing feelings.

I think the format made the filler feel agonizing, characterization episodes were just the scapegoat for the stevenbomb format’s sins.

exactly

there is it they can be friends, they can be partners but a couple? naaaah i don't see them like that

You talk too much

Interesting

Dang you must have some personal problems then

Yo it's really not that deep. How often are you online?

jesus dude, thats seriously on you

What the hell are you talking about? Charie does NOT see Vaggie as a pet

I completely get that but charlie doesn’t bring it up to anyone or hold it over Vaggies head in the scenes we see, they’re on equal footing dawg

Maybe in season 2.

I think they could even work in the idea that Vaggie does not have full belief into the project, due to her ordeal with heaven (something only the audience knows, and will pay off when we find out she's an angel), which would make the relationship drama a lot spicier.

They just seem like a calm regular couple which dosent sound bad.

But that makes for a dull story.

​@@kap1618unfortunately

You clearly don’t have any bit of a brain or pay attention to the show, just because they were shown meeting doesn’t mean that’s automatically how their relationship started.

We saw how they met not how they fell in love.

I think it's pretty obvious why Vaggie fell in love with Charlie, despite her being a demon. Vaggie lost an eye and got her wrings ripped off by someone that was supoosed to be on her team. And even before that, I doubt her relationships with the other angels was very deep. And her boss literally named her after female genitlia, I'm sure she was absolutely thrilled to be constantly sexualized by a man. So Charlie was probably the first person in a really long time that showed her genuine kindness, in a moment where Vaggie had nobody that actually cared about her

I mean. She was left in hell literally because she didn’t want to kill a demon…so she already had some thoughts that what they were doing wasn’t 100% correct. And I also feel like the experience of being maimed and abandoned by those who were telling her to kill demons, in combination with a demon showing you compassion moments later…would definitely make you question everything you know very quickly. Which you also have incentive to do in order to survive because, you know, you’re stuck in hell now. Demons are the only people around. …and vivziepop said on stream that she thinks they started off as good friends for a long while and mutual feelings developed over time. But even if that wasn’t a case, it doesn’t surprise me that she immediately clung hard to the girl who extended an olive branch when she had nobody. In her position, I might become obsessed with Charlie lol

She didn’t fall in love with her back then , that was the moment they met , and what stopped her from killing charlie was she was literally in a vulnerable state , got her wings torn off and eye cut , she was weak at that moment and realized charlie despite being a demon , still helped her up , and i'm pretty sure at that moment vaggie felt angry at her team so that's why trusting a demon wasn’t in her mind

You thinking she was raised by a single dad that was like that?

Maybe, but the fact that people are making fun of her for that is awful. Its her show so she can write characters how she wants.

Not everything has to be about the personal life of the creator. I've been seeing that way too much in other media as off lately and it's just lame. Not everything has to be an autobiography.@@cordleil2747

Season 2.

I feel like angel and husk got an appropriate amount of screen time this season. Carmine was the character that ate a bunch of screen time with almost nothing to show for it (other than an AMAZING va). I feel like A: Vaggie should have been the one to kill an exorcist, she already has an angelic weapon it would have been easier. She doesn't tell anyone because she's afraid heaven will try and take her away from Charlie. This opens up a lot more time to develop interesting things with Vaggie than having her there as just sort of "Charlie's girlfriend and second in command of the hotel".

@asaknight321 What did you mean by predictable? Is it going to be predictable that they end up becoming a couple? Because obviously that wouldn't be a surprise to anyone, but I think Blitz and Stolas would make a very entertaining couple to watch, I don't think their characters are going to be stalled in their development just because of their relationship or anything like that. And I think it will be fun to see what kind of situations they can fall into once they're in a relationship. Plus if this is more about "I don't like that they're focusing so much on Stolas and Blitz" complaints, it's his main romantic interest, obviously they're going to get maximum screen time because it's one of their most important relationships and one of the most interesting. But I guess there is something for everyone (the Angel x Husk ship is going to be one of the most cute ships in Hazbin I think).

@@siv4975 I mean it's gonna be great but this show is not as consistent as many would like it to be. Not bad but a decline has been spotted. I hope the show does well for the rest of the series but right now I don't see the hype

@@Nerd704 this comment right here. Hot Carmel pants took too much time

​@@siv4975the thing is... Will they won't they often end with pair being finally together...and then show's over (friends, she-ra, adventure time, avatar etc.)