Chasing flipped boat through Velvet Falls at 6.66' - Middle Fork of the Salmon River

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This video was shot on 6/16/2011 on the MIddle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho. Two minuted into the video, running lead, I slip my raft between a large hole and an exposed rock. The raft behind me was about three feet to the right and rode up on the rock and flipped. The video documents the next 15 minutes as we run Velvet and recover the raft. The guide of the flipped raft was quickly picked up by our safety kayakers and raft running sweep. Sorry about the condensation on the camera.

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30 июн 2011

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Комментарии : 40

@SidGravesFriends 13 лет назад

In my opinion your actions in both videos were outstanding !!! As well as your ability to read and get your boat where it needs to go. We put on the day after you did, and were not aware of the 'left sneak' at Velvet. One of our 5 boats flipped there. Great Job recovering the murph's flip, and quick experienced actions in flipping the boat back over! Nice Job all around & Gr8 Video !!!

@MrSTEVEKNIGHT3 13 лет назад

This is an awesome way to see the river!!! These video's of the middle fork are my favorite ever!!!!! Keep it up, these kick ass!!

@funhog35 13 лет назад

Great video. We just ran it at 5.3' so it is really nice to see its character at higher flow. Very competent handling of the flip and recovery. I picked up a few technique tips from you. Thanks.

@MT4Runner 12 лет назад

I appreciate all the embedded comments--especially the one about having someone in the water to retrieved trapped/floating gear. Great video!

@markschaffer2312 9 лет назад

Nice Greg. Been too long since West Water and the portable hot tub, good times for sure! FYI - there is a large eddy on the outside of a turn at Big Bend Camp about 1.5 miles below Velvet. We've used it in the past to pull flipped rafts over at high water. It's great for pulling the boat over if you can get it in time. A mile and a half goes quickly when it's high water. The only down side is the eddy is along a steep bank with loose rock ect, which is it's own can of worms. However the strong eddy on the outside of the bend makes it easier to stop the raft. Cheers!!!

@hdcrook1 5 лет назад

Excellent and helpful video.

@riversandrocks 10 лет назад

we had a similar experience in '83 - in the first 2 days at high water we chased a kayak, a raft, and a swimmer. a raft blew a 3 foot hole in a seam at powerhouse. almost had to go downstream below pistol creek in very cold rain at near dark - angry frightened people, some flew out - our groups was totally overmatched - i felt personally safe but was so glad when the trip was over

@MikeSawyerwhitewater 12 лет назад

Thanks, reminds us of our 2006 trip. We had a raft flip at Pistol. Took several miles to get it to shore. That's a wonderful river at that level but unrelenting intensity...

@Gyntster 12 лет назад

This film depicts typical high water, upper end Middle Fork conditions: cold, cloudy, eddy-less and unforgiving to anyone with limited river experience. Your left bank run at Velvet posted the typical "turn around" bump, and you played it very well. Keeping the formation tight is always hard in high water conditions. I've overheard Class V boaters putting the MF down as a pansy run, but I always correct them with the high water scenario, especially considering how the cfs multiplies 8-10 fold.

@raferguson1 13 лет назад

What impresses me is that you had the boat right side up within 15 minutes of when it flipped, even though you lost the time (and distance) through Velvet Falls. You must have done this before. ;-)

@jayskeen5181 Год назад

I flipped a kayak in Velvet in May Very cold water Legs cramped even with wet suit Near death experience Scary as heck

@The_Briggs Год назад

Yeah, those early season trips are so cold, the snow from the avalanche shutes is still laying in the water. And the swims can be soooo long!

@mcriser 12 лет назад

Sh*t happens, that's why we run whitewater...it's not if, but when and how bad and long the rescue takes. I chased a 18' avon Pro for 6 miles after Crystal on the Grand at high water, just never give up.

@Gyntster 12 лет назад

Bit of a stretch putting a "green" guide on the Middle Fork at high water, but if all went well after this, then I am sure he is much better at the craft having logged a high water MF trip. That flip was in the last of the business of "Hell's Half Mile", a rapid that was not named in the early '80's, but was always attention-grabbing. At really low water it is especially demanding. Perfect "Boatman's POV"!

@flerno 12 лет назад

Why didn't the person in the front of your raft not simply jump onto the upside raft and flip it upright up using a flip line?

@mountain_ginger 4 года назад

These are multi day rigs. Little heavier than an empty raft that you would normally do that with. Takes rigging and multiple people on the shore to usually flip them back over.

@Gyntster 10 лет назад

Your film begins about 1/2 mile below "Ram's Horn" at the end of that swift, relatively flat section just above "Hell's Half Mile". The Upper Middle Fork has an average gradient of around 45 fpm; however, there are two distinctly steeper sections here, and your friend flipped at the start of the first such section where the gradient jumps to about 65 feet per mile. This busy rapid is a real menace at levels below 2.4 feet, and many an experienced guide has become stuck here; moreover, at the level you are looking at -and higher- this piece of water becomes quite angry, and a mishap here delivers one into the really nasty hole that occupies the entire river from left center to right bank. Your film does not begin at Ram's Horn, but the most excellent Oarsman POV and the seriousness of this area are well depicted nonetheless. The second section with 65 fpm gradient is from "Powerhouse" to "Joe Bump Camp".

@The_Briggs 10 лет назад

It sounds like you have done that section before. Thanks for the info. Can edit and add it to the description?

@Gyntster 10 лет назад

Indeed, Greg, I seen that section of river over 50 times at levels ranging from 1.7 to 8 feet. The Upper Middle Fork at high water (5.5+ft.) is historically underestimated, because when one makes the passage free of any "situations", its simply fast and exciting. However, when a flip or a wrap (worse) happens and there are swimmers in that icy water, the trip takes on a very different color. The river has its steepest moments (65+ ft/mi) at two places: 1.) Ram's horn to Velvet and 2.) Powerhouse to Joe Bump. And in high water that tight section in Hell's Half Mile really gets your attention, especially the nest of flipper holes below the dog-leg...and nobody wants be separated from their raft here because hypothermia will set in rapidly, elevating the probability of a really bad swim in that river-wide keeper at Velvet Falls. Here's a little story you can share with your guide posse...For three full seasons back in the early 80's I rowed alongside Mike Murphy, of "Murph's Hole" fame. That hole gets his name because on Mike's first commercial trip (June, 1981) he flipped there...and then he flipped again in Velvet. That's two flips within an hour of the start of his first season as a full-time Middle Fork guide. Murph (we all called him that) grew into one very skilled oarsman, and his charming, regal ways were a delight to experience...and his 6'5" frame commanded respect. Because I was an EMT and had been guiding for over ten years, I always ran sweep (last). At 7.2 feet I watched Murph flip a fourth time (right in front of me on a freezing, rainy trip) in the big stuff at Rubber. His first flip was in the Grand Canyon at "Upset". He'd never rowed a boat before, but his friends put him on the oars at Lee's Ferry, and he rowed the entire canyon...with only one flip. Pretty cool, eh!? After the flip in Rubber we all threatened, with tongue in cheek, to paint a big Roman Numeral "V" on the bottom of his boat....but he never flipped again.

@MarlinMark444 2 года назад

Question? Wouldn't you want to "eddy out" more often to make sure you are running lead boat safety?

@The_Briggs 2 года назад

The problem is that at this level there really are no eddies. If the lead boat was able to get into one the other boats would blow right past. We agreed at the top of the run the eddies we would stop in but they are fairly far apart.

@WhiteBirdIT 11 лет назад

You're not going to flip a fully loaded raft rightside up with one person

@class5rated 13 лет назад

Thanks for the high water video. But didn't that raft flip because you signaled him to go that way? That's what it looked like to me. I am sure everyone was flipping left and right that month.

@mcriser 12 лет назад

The red boat was loaded with gear, it would take 10 people to flip it up right.

@kenbaysinger7352 6 лет назад

Nice videos and great job of rowing. But calling a person a "guide" just because he has oars in his hands is wrong. Being a guide involves a lot more than that. Call him a boatman or oarsman, but not a guide. Again, great video.

@The_Briggs 6 лет назад

Ken Baysinger, out of curiosity, what is required to be a guide? Also, can you be a guide without having a guide license?

@kenbaysinger7352 6 лет назад

In Idaho, you must be licensed by the state to call yourself a guide. You cannot legally act as a guide without a license. Licenses specify which rivers or stretches of river you are licensed for. I was licensed for the Main Salmon and Snake, but not the Middle Fork, since my company did not operate there.

@kenbaysinger7352 6 лет назад

You have to know a lot about the area you want to guide in. You do not have to own a license to my knowledge.

@bdh3949 5 лет назад

Bullshit, maps are never useless if you pay attention on the river! What good is a coordinate if you don't know where you are either?

@The_Briggs 5 лет назад

What I had was a GPS with critical rapids labeled. I created a goto to those points and at any moment I could look down and see distance and time to the hazard. Like "Velvet Falls in .75 miles/ 8 minutes". If I had a map I would have to first determine where I was, then find the page with Velvet and then make a guess on time and distance. There just isn't time for that and the accuracy is not precise enough for me.

@bdh3949 5 лет назад

Honestly, it's personal preference. I was a pro raft guide for 35 years and never used a gps even on the exploratory rivers. I watched several guides loose there way with a gps (some got wet) and it wasn't pretty...insisting that they were obviously right...wrong. I don't need to flip pages, I don't become unaware on the river especially when it gets very intense. I glance at my waterproof map occasionally without the distraction of an electronic device and ALWAYS know where I am and how far from trouble I am. Again, it is personal preference so enjoy your trips, take care. PS I learned on regular oarlocks too, feathering, slip movements of the oar to change lengths when needed, proper stowage but pins and clips are excellent for WW rafts...enjoy.

@The_Briggs 5 лет назад

Yeah, personal preference I guess. Electronic devices don't really distract once you are fluid with them. Oar locks vs pins are also personal preference. I like an oar that is locked in so I can hold on a littel better with them.

@MrFun222222222 11 лет назад

This is what happens when you use a crappy AIRE raft.

@gailater949 5 лет назад

AIRE does not make crappy rafts....and if you think they do Bub....then you’ve never owned one...or....you’re an idiot !! 🥴🤨

@dare_devil_kidgaming5313 7 лет назад

you shoudent do that i now some who died doing exsactly what you where doing

@abskirental 9 лет назад

Pins and clips? Get real

@The_Briggs 9 лет назад

It's really just personal preference. There have been some extremely difficult first descents done by experts rowing with pins and clips.

@kenbaysinger7352 6 лет назад

No need to be arrogant about your oarlocks. I hear this elitist attitude a lot. But if you have arthritic joints in your fingers (as I have) locks are not an option. And when you develop carpal tunnel syndrome from the repetitive motion of feathering your oars, remember fondly how superior it made you feel.

@gailater949 5 лет назад

Steve Davis I’ve run Class 4-5 white all over the Americas with pins and clips Bubba!! 😘😎

@denise_hansen 3 года назад

Steve Davis with respect (only cuz I’m respectful) you need some hard schooling... I did the very first descents (exploratory team) in the early eighties rowing a round bucket boat WITH clips and pins on the Forks of the Kern. Still row with them on certain rivers at specific levels. Your comment reeks with ignorance.