Chat Rates if TF2's 2007 Dev Commentary STILL Holds Up 

eyyyy

MvM gambling addict.

Hopefully, it will have been worth the wait.

Shut up man

The golden pan, Dewill When will the ki for it be use?

he truly thanked and had fun

​@@HOURHAK Thanks Gabe, and have fun :)

He welcomes us to TF2, talks about how much he wanted to see it flourish, and wished us fun

only video without dev commentary gag is the one about dev commentary 0:

i though the video was the commentary

shounic audience and uncle dane's audience are the same people

Tasteless zoomers

It's a failure to recognize the artistry instead of the design. People were likely confused.

@@percher4824 100%. Hydro is awful, but it’s very pretty.

nuh uh

Probably because art direction tends to equal map design for most people. And let's be honest, Hydro is poorly designed and explained.

The art style is good. People probably voted thinking it was about the design. The intro video does enough to explain what it is, I don't get why people get confused, it's fun.

​@@TKsh1 I played a lot of Hydro after ban wave and biggest problem of Hydro is that it's critically bugged. You can stuck on previous point if you not went to spawn, especially if you lose. Sense of direction is quite debatable IMO. I don't find it too hard to navigate(At least it's not Reconer that feels too linear and lacking of flanks).

@@TKsh1 Hydro also isn't helped by the fact that matchmaking will randomly break what spawns you get. If it were remade into a massive free-for-all map with a ton of control points instead of twenty consecutive games of 2cp to get 1 of the best-2-out-of-3 game wins, it might have gone over better.

the community is a herd

*electricity sfx*

What can I say, worst class in the game. Glad it got deleted.

I mean, there's a difference between bad rating and very bad rating, which hydro aesthetics was only rated that in bad tier, whilst random crits was rated 6% more in very bad, an entire tier above.

People that don't like hydro are subhuman and can't recognize real beauty.

Even crazier that the disparity between sniper and medic is so big. IMO having a medic is just as impactful as having a competent sniper on the enemy team.

Hydro looks really good. It plays terrible but its pretty to look at.

To the first thanksgiving…

@@peytongonzaga7109to get turkeys…

To take turkeys....

OFF the menu.

Off the menu...

i think its due to the fact that not many care about hydro & the lack of a fifth "neutral" option on the poll

Hydro is the best TF2 map aesthetic and i will die on that hill

@@ruzgar1372 my favourate map asthetically is swiftwater

They have to be trolling

@@artifactU It's a pretty standard Alpine theme. Many maps run it, simple but really good.

Yeah, like what's the point? I get that the commentaries arn't that exciteing but isn't that the point of the meme? Rateing a very standard and unexciteing feature.

@@nacicomi that's not what they were rating

lol nah dw

@@shounic Ah, good. That was a very cool ending regardless

Many of them do, but the corporate structure of modern game companies is basically evil. Some awful parody of a human being will be in a managerial role breathing down your neck to "efficiencise" your designs or some other bad-sounding made-up buzz word. From their perspective, HUD elements make more "sense" because they (as non-players who don't understand a thing about the game) can tell better from them in a static screenshot than they can from trying to learn how to read the scene. Video games weren't always this way, but EA's horrible behavior is now the gold standard in the "competitive" triple-A industry.

​@@lpsp442I take issue with the overly reductive "bad because capitalism" take. Capitalism probably does make games bad... but almost all games are made under capitalism, so how *do* the glorious few standouts manage to rise above adversity? In the case of TF2, you just need to give a scrappy, uniquely talented team of modders 9 continuous years of unconditional resources and totally unchecked creative control. It's quite the unrealistic standard -- the games industry *never* worked like this. Other studios had to make do with considerably less and they still (sometimes) managed to produce great visual designs! So, what's the true difference-maker? Why do games look so much more cluttered now? I chalk it up to team sizes: if your game designer, UI designer and programmer are the same person, they can dig down really deep into the weeds and experiment with really wild ideas. Splitting those roles up may be necessary to achieving games at the scale of (for example) Baldur's Gate III... but doing so necessarily redelegates the responsibility for "steering the ship" away from the intuitive individual and into the hands of the inflexible collective. It takes a truly skilled (and lucky) team to make up for this inherent procedural inflexibility and most software teams just... aren't completely up to the challenge.

​@@MasterChaoko I also take issue with overly blunt "Capitalism bad" takes, which is why I don't make them. I had no intent to talk about it, but for what it's worth its flaws did pave the way for cronyism and corporatist monopolies that plague all industries today. Hence the reason why """scrappy, uniquely talented teams of 9 guys""" that used to be ubiquitous have died out and team sizes are now oceanic in their nauseating bloated scale. It suits the content-maximising interests of the top crust and enables their further monopolising, and if the games are terrible from all but the most mindless pigfeed perspective then that's too bad. The worst part about it is that this is a system which performs an ideological and phisophical houdini, by both posing as some sort of destined force ala social darwinism ("this is just the winning combination, don't get mad") while also paving over everything with a sickening and hollow veneer of woke crap. The worst bits of left-wing nu-religion welded to the right wing's propensity to apologise for atrocity. And it's in charge wherever you look today. People are sick and want better rulers.

... "nu-religion", "apologize for atrocity", "better rulers?". I'm honestly afraid to reply to this guy but I just gotta say that what I'm saying has nothing to do with that crackpot mumbo-jumbo.

@@MasterChaoko You're an un-serious person and I'm happy to no longer speak with you about anything of substance.

Yeah chat seems to be brain dead.

say VALVE or valve not VALVe please, just because their logo says VALVe doesent mean thats what the company is called

@@ryanthegoose9456VALVe hurts my eyes a tiny bit (so does GLaDOS)

@@ryanthegoose9456 regardless of what's correct or not is that really a big deal? I pretty much use the three pronunciations interchangeably

@@arrowtongue hurts me eyes when i read it (also these are spellings not pronunciations) (if you prouncounce these diffently not counting yelling VALVE then ur wierd)

​@@ryanthegoose9456Don't read then. Simple

As a medic main. The thank you-s are the reason I'm willing to go through the hell that is playing medic. "Good job" and "cheer" voicelines also work.

@@nacicomi yea, even without people actually going z+2 you get a thanks which is great

I'm glad it's not too automated .. that was an issue I had with L4D, they built this system for the characters to have these conversations, which sounds neat, but it basically means me and the other player are just listening in on a conversation. I like TF2's dialog menus and how they let you have an explicit conversation with someone. They really help the social aspect of the game.

@@nacicomi Hearing Heavy yell "THANK YOU DOKTOR" makes my brain release dopamine.

Crit heals were a mexhanic that got added after tf2's launch iirc. That or they existed but got buffed to be more significant. Might be conflating the old random crit system and the newer crit system.

​@Underqualified_Gunman iirc they were changed to be active on spawn, before you had to wait 10-15 seconds AFTER they spawndd to receive crit heals as well as no damage

The "strong medic/patient relationship" is also one-sided as Hell, the Medic's teammates treat him like an NPC with no feelings 99% of time

As a medic main, it really depends. Spreading heals is important during prefights/stalemates/rolls, but in the middle of a push you often need to identify a pocket (or two) who receives a majority of the heals so that they have enough health to make plays even in the face of oncoming damage, which I think is what the devs were thinking of in this commentary. The relationship is temporary, but strong nonetheless.

They used to be much worse and pretty much straight blind you if you were looking at a pyro who was firing them at you. It makes a lot of sense but it was pretty unfun to play against.

@@Schtoples Well, it was worse than that. Pyro's flames were inconsistent at hitting enemies. Outside of pubstomping, Pyro was a broken class functionally. He might not be anything extraordinary today, but those buffs from Jungle Inferno were necessary to make him a normal character.

@@leithaziz2716 Pyro didn't even have air blast on the initial orange box release. The class' history of being scuffed and kind of bad goes back much further than Jungle Inferno.

They were pretty wrong about Pyro being the best short range class though lol, Pyro gets absolutely shredded by Heavies

I sometimes loose pyro in flames so good job I guess

"Tell me that you suck at the game without saying that you suck at the game"

Like said in the video, it is in alpha so it'll hopefuly, fingers crossed, praying to god, be improved

*mugshots

Backshots

@@aceattorneyhdclips its not really supposed to be useful data i dont think

@@artifactU The video's premise is to propose the question "Do the original concepts from 2007['s TF2] still hold up?" The video then does not answer this analytically and instead just has polling data from a livestream's chat rate how they feel about the commentaries. If the data isn't supposed to be useful, then what is the point in proposing the question? I highly doubt the start of the video is a complete non sequitur from the rest of it. In that sense, I feel the video has failed to deliver the much more interesting concept of the video. Video games are never designed by committee. Why, then, would you ever want to analyze game design by committee?

@@aceattorneyhdclips 6:27 "Obviously, you can't take this data too seriously"

"All the results could have been predicted by just imagining what Reddit's current zeitgeist of TF2 is" Yeah, pretty much this. Is it really ANY surprise that the nodes on random crits and sniper were at the bottom of the tier list?

@@dacheesebroker1105 My contention isn't with the accuracy or precision of the data, rather it's that the data is fundamentally inappropriate: it, in my view, cannot actually even be attempted to answer the proposed question. It's a disconnect. In that sense, I don't think it's a matter of taking the data seriously/unseriously more than it is disagreeing with the base method of data collection itself. But what you probably mean is I have a stick up my arse and am taking this entertaining content too seriously. Fair enough and touché. I just wanted to voice that, though the video was well made, it wasn't what I had come to expect from Shounic's otherwise insightful videos and wanted to give constructive feedback. To be completely blunt, I thought this video's thumbnail and title were much more interesting than the contents.

Well, that's why it would be funny to revert it that the more damage you do, the less chance is for one. Or just delete crit ramp-up thing and leave them at their base to make it truly random for all

​@@Jasiuc330 or just remove it entirely

@@vyor8837 hell nah, even if not perfect I have soft spot for them

@@Jasiuc330 why

​@@vyor8837theyre fun and goofy im sorry that you don't liek randomness in a non competitive and instead a casual experience, its like complaining about items in smash, sure they are random and some being op but do you really think that items should be removed because comp players fucking despise items?

yeah this is such a strange barely cohesive, barely productive video

@@kerzidit’s fun

@@desertdesk iT's FuN

It's because the poll prompt was "what do you think about this" instead of "how true is this nowadays". I brought it up to him, but we were at the halfway point and he didn't want to retread ground so he just kept going.

@@GoblinSquid thank you for the insightful response. I’m just pointing out that not every video has to be productive to be enjoyable

It doesn't do it when you're disguised does it? I'm curious because I always thought that when disguised it only plays the sound for you.

@mcxMakerx not while you're disguised, but that comes into play when you might undisguise so the spawning teamate outlines doesnt give you away. It does play for everyone, and notice how often your teamates will have automatic shouts regarding the objective, getting kills/dominations, or cheers/jeers.

That and letting Spy say voicelines for destroying buildings while cloaked and disguised. I literally tracked down a Spy once because his Demo disguise said "KA-BOOM" while he was cloaked and his sapper just destroyed a building.

but Spy doesn't do that when he's disguised, or invisible?

he just wants to stop the bomb so badly

Or make his base damage 40 instead so you can still do 120 on a quickscope but to oneshot anyone you need to commit to zooming in.

@@TheTdw2000That’s a good idea, so the skilled players will get high damage from 180 headshots. But not too much damage to instant kill and to actually give the enemy a chance.

Yeah I think he meant famous (or was being sarcastic)

@@mendyshelios0451 I think Steel got it's redemption after Fishbus has begun to update the map(Yes, they keeps making updates for it and publish them in workshop).

what do you think should've been done differently? not that the video is perfect but it's not very cohesive because it's chatters rating stuff so it's inherently random and scattershot

@@shounic I think the title should of been named differently. This wasn't quite a dive in on the dev commentary but more of popularity of these mechanics by your chat. And while I'd say most of your chatters are tf2 players, they also can be a bit bias. (the recent bot crisis has put sniper in a bad light, tf2 fans who like to parrot the most popular opinion). Still an interesting video but maybe another go is needed.

​@@shounicI thought this video would be about you showing if the commentary lines up with gameplay and is it still accurate but it just ended up being "RU-vid chat makes a tier list of their favorite elements of tf2"

fair enough, i rewrote the title to be clearer

@@shounic all four of these replies basically summarized it for me. it's the title luring you into something insightful but it ended up just being a fun lil thing with you engaging with your audience. the expectation just made it feel a lot worse than it should because you usually make analysis that brings something to the table. it made the viewing experience just a slow confusing realization of "oh this is not that video". the new title solves this though so i have no further complaints

You are just a simp

They sure like them when they’re the ones getting the crit kill.

love the pseudo implication that people crashing the cars into the victims would rate cars highly

@@maxomega3 Extra points

UPDATE: now weapons don't deal damage because people complained about dying

r/fuckcars origin story

If you’re using the default HUD then it’s on the bottom of the main menu, just hover over the buttons and you should be able to find it.

You click the button that brings up the developer commentary. I really can't explain it more simply than that.

What does that even mean

@@crabot There is very little about the game is what I'm saying.

@@r.g.thesecond there is a closed alpha with easy access though

@@crabot do YOU have access to it 👀

@@r.g.thesecond yes

I’m not for random Critz but I agree with the first part.

That's counting women, children, and the infirm, though. You want a count of able-bodied military age males to really understand the kangaroo's odds.

exactly

What does and Doesn't count as a kangaroo? There is a spectrum between kangaroos to wallabies which has alot more shades of grey then you would think. A person could easily destory 14 wallabies.

@@TOASTEngineer Yes, but you must also take in account the elderly kangaroo population, and if its practical to let joeys and non-able-bodied kangaroos fight.

@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 its a copypasta i wouldnt take it to seriously

Tbf, they seem very minor compared to those small clips of other games shown in the video.

Maybe, but Sniper is literally the most annoying class in the game to me. A good sniper can shutdown an entire pub and a spy, 180 headshots should not be a thing.

I think the bots had more to do with the sniper discourse tbh

even with 1% damage it'd lead to a lot of team kills, with knockback into hazards and just dealing enough damage. a spy can't easily prove they're on your team by switching back either, since the enemy spy can also disguise as your spy, so the hostile ally would have to notice in the midst of combat they're no longer able to deal damage to you. sounds a lot more confusing and frustrating for everyone involved

@@veikko_5235 yet more engaging then engi IMO. (Somehow played it more then any other classes in couple of months and got PTSD from destroyed buildings+hatred towards people of France and Bostonians)

@@jas-c3610 At least PTSD is engaging right?