Cheap Bike Upgrades: Can Inner Tubes Save You Watts? | Butyl Vs Latex Tubes

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In a sport where attention to detail has become increasingly important, how much consideration have you given to the inner tubes that you use for a triathlon? We’re going to dig a bit deeper to weigh up the pros and cons between the two options of butyl and latex inner tubes!
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Опубликовано:

24 авг 2020

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Комментарии : 88

@gtn 3 года назад

What inner tubes do you use? Leave us a comment!

@trepidati0n533 3 года назад

Training = Gator + Butyl. Near Race Day = Conti 5000 + Latex. It is a hell of a drug when you switch over.

@VanillaSky23ffm 3 года назад

None :-) all tires set up tubeless - road bike and TT

@lisapet160 3 года назад

Light butyl. Latex does not hold the air. (Stopped watching when saw rollers. Will resume once I'll start riding on velodrome. Most real life misconseption and false assumptions were based on results obtained on rollers).

@mattsharpe3989 3 года назад

The ones that cost $3

@phxrsx 3 года назад

I’d like to see this test again on tarmac.

@elvisjaegerabduljabaar3465 3 года назад

Of course, this test is on rollers, meaning that you are on 160W of pure rolling resistance (no climbing, no aero drag...) with a surface that is very different from the road. You have a very great difference... for 80W of rolling resistance, each tire. In real life, you may be in the region of 20 to 50W of total rolling resistance. Still, latex tubes are faster, but dont expect 10W difference.

@jimmyhor78 3 года назад

Thats 21W not 11W! However rollers do exaggerate the differences in rolling resistance somewhat due to smaller contact patch and greater tire deformation.

@ryan5cramer 3 года назад

awesome result, thank you for sharing. Last time I used Latex tubes, both tire blew on a race so I decided to no longer use them as it cost me a lot of time to fix them and try to get back into the race so I have a hard time wanting to go back to them.

@shaunjasper5465 3 года назад

Really interesting. I'd be interested to know more about the likelihood to puncture, as mentioned at the end of the video, thanks

@JoeJoe-lq6bd 3 года назад

I haven't used them in a long time but I used to ride latex tubes and they roll great but they flat easily, both from pinch and puncture. Flexing more only helps if they're the same strength and thickness as butyl, which they are not.

@CalebChapman12 3 года назад

Shaun Jasper I got a pinch flat in 5 miles on county roads...

@AeroComfyTri 3 года назад

Swapped to Latex a few months ago, inside Vittoria Corsa 23. Instantly faster on straights and handled better through bends.

@glennoc8585 3 года назад

Tried the latex then a Lighter butyl and my times are very similar. I'm using light clincher maybe the difference is moreso with heavier clincher.

@lwittrock1 3 года назад

Great video!

@spamsandwich1931 3 года назад

A lot of comments about 55kph being unrepresentative of real world situations (which it is), but rollers are significantly smoother than actual roads. So maybe latex would still offer the 5-10 watt savings?

@fixxzitt 3 года назад

What about thermoplastic elastomer tubes (example Tubolito). How does it compare with latex and butyl? Thanks.

@williamtetrault1300 2 года назад

Have been using latex tubes for quite a few years now. I stay away from the really light tubes; I think one gives away too much durability with the lightest tubes(and that goes as much for lightweight butyl as for the lightest latex!). The biggest reason for the latex superiority is due, I believe, to the very much greater pliability/conformability it demonstrates! Granted, latex tubes lose lots more pressure from one day to the next. But for the huge advantage in rolling resistance (a function of its pliability), I will gladly spend a little more time pumping up the tires every day!

@kajet666 3 года назад

Well done, but I’ve got two issues with the test: 1) doesn’t rolling resistance work differently on rollers? The tyre is squeezed differently than on the road, surely the rear one. 2) as far as I can remember rolling resistance goes up with speed. I doubt many of us will cover extended stretches of road in a tri at 55 kph. The watt difference you saw was indeed massive.

@ulfhansen7927 3 года назад

Jarno Bierman at rolling resistance has tested latex tubes. There are faster because latex springs back with less energy loss. Latex 25% loss. Butyl >50% loss. GP5000 with latex tubes is equal to GP5000 Tubeless in rolling resistance, about 17W total for 2 tires. Butyl tubes is apps. 4W lower than butyl tubes in fast clinchers as GP5000.

@georgeravenhall1939 3 года назад

182w on Butyl and 161w on Latex. Unless I’m missing something, that’s a 21w difference (not 11w)? Now that’s mega.

@phxrsx 3 года назад

11 per tire I suppose

@markthrelfall3577 3 года назад

Apologies, yes I should've explained that better. Around 10-11W per tyre. A lot more than I expected!!

@mattsoukup1789 3 года назад

But with such high speed achieved on the rollers with such little power, it's entirely possible that the rollers skewed this data some. Let's see a test on the road!

@pr0faker 3 года назад

@@mattsoukup1789 yes it seems very unlikely that only innertube changes to latex gives so much less rolling resistance that the real life savings on wattage will probably be much lower. I do want to know why such a minor thing still makes so much difference that its clearly measurable, when the real part touching the machine is the outer tube??

@andrebonilha7254 3 года назад

Exactly! What‘s the phisics explanation for such an increase of rolling properties changing only the inner tubes?

@paulsmith1552 3 года назад

Your dog on the stairs in the background seemed a bit uninterested in the whole situation. I love dogs and he/she made me laugh.

@tddsctt 3 года назад

Dog!

@linang2211 Год назад

Very Nice

@mojorourke21 3 года назад

How important is bike weight? Like 9 vs 10 kg?

@seanjennings3134 3 года назад

I expect the speed had a lot to do with why the difference was so large. Nobody holds 55kph in a triathlon. Very few people watching this video will even be holding 40kph. The average is going to be more like 30kph, which I expect will yield a significantly smaller power saving percentage.

@kakarot2430 3 года назад

I want to see the number on road, both flat and climb.

@Jim-be8sj 3 года назад

Very interesting. I'm not sure I understand the physics that would explain the difference in rolling resistance. It would never have occurred to me that the material in a tube could have such a large effect.

@simedinson984 3 года назад

How well the material deforms will mean a lower rolling resistance

@Jim-be8sj 3 года назад

@@simedinson984 Thanks for input. It makes sense.

@danielbronder3747 3 года назад

@@simedinson984 If I understand you correctly. The latex tube is more flexibel and therefore it will decrease the resistance? It is the resistance between the inner and outside tube?

@simedinson984 3 года назад

@@danielbronder3747 atleast for your normal tyre the deformation around the uneventies in the road will either be to slow and make you bounce (slow) or deform around it and not deflect your energy(fast) and I I thought it was the same with inner tube as it also have to deform with the outer tyre to not bounce around like a mad man

@kajet666 3 года назад

Simon explained it well, and if you’re interested in this topic (and in aero), I highly recommend the book “Faster” by Jim Gourley. Saves you money you won’t spend on expensive and ineffective upgrades.

@DDGB08 Год назад

Nice

@likemarksee 3 года назад

Zipp warranty is void by using latex tubes. Also, latex tubes are much more likely to fail when subjected to heat produced by rim braking. The chemicals (alkaline content?) of CO2 cartridges also break down the latex. A good compromise would be light-weight butyl tubes; but a tubeless setup is fastest and most likely much more reliable than a latex tube setup.

@veganpotterthevegan Год назад

Who told you that? That's not true about Zipp and latex tubes. I'm good friends with a Zipp rep that always talked up latex tubes to customers when he was in the shop

@likemarksee Год назад

The info came from Zipp. I looked into it for my Zipp 808 rim brake clincher. I either read it in the manual, or I found it on their website. Either way, it was clearly stated at the time. I initially used a latex tube, but switched to butyl after realising my mistake. It might be that the warranty conditions have changed for new/different wheel sets, or perhaps the (previous) non latex clause only applied to rim brake clinchers 🤷‍♂️. My above comment on this video is two years old. I still won’t use latex tubes on carbon rim brake wheels, because the heat from braking can cause them to fail. If you need a definitive answer for a particular wheel-set, it might be best to ask/email Zipp directly.

@veganpotterthevegan Год назад

@Mark w my Zipp rep is a top 3 selling rep in the world. I also couldn't find a single thing on SRAM's website referencing that. That said, people blow butyl tubes with rim brakes if they're timid descenders. People crash glazing their disc brake pads too.

@likemarksee Год назад

@@veganpotterthevegan also consider Schwalbe Aerothan tubes, they seem like a good compromise.

@veganpotterthevegan Год назад

@Mark w I only use tubes in an emergency but I do carry TPU tubes. That's only for the packability though. I'm not concerned about blowing my tubes. It's a rarer and rarer issue with bigger tires and lower pressure. I live in Salt Lake City and we have huge climbs and descents. Working in the bike industry, I haven't even thought of blowing tubes. I've seen plenty of delaminated, older carbon rims with every kind of tube you can think of still holding air.

@samfaulkner8815 3 года назад

So what is the actual science behind why latex has a lower rolling resistance?

@carljohanmalm8163 3 года назад

What do you think about tubolito tubes?

@markthrelfall3577 3 года назад

I've not tried them, but I've heard great reviews. Very tempted to get some and try the same again

@Elchie232 3 года назад

My favourite. Expensive but worth the weight saving, rolling resistance and pucture resistance

@brunoj6146 3 года назад

I have been using them for 2 years and very satisfied. Rolling resistance is a little bit higher than latex by something like 2 W but they are much lighter : 21 g for the s version.

@PaulFrost35 3 года назад

It would have been interesting to have added tubeless to the test. Don't they have even less rolling resistance? and potentially less weight (even allowing for sealant and tyre construction). Plus the added bonus of no time loss repairing minor punctures.

@glennoc8585 3 года назад

Tubeless tyres are considerably.heavier then.you add sealant.

@markthrelfall3577 3 года назад

Purely testing tubes today. Will be looking at the tubeless, tubular and clincher debate another time

@Elchie232 3 года назад

Tubolito the best for me. Good trade off with rolling resistance, weight and puncture resistance. Good at all round tube.

@vaugr1917 3 года назад

I've had terrible luck with tubolito. tried 8 of them... Presta and schrader and they all leak from different areas (I checked them straight out of the packaging and the leak😠 and randomly deflate🤔

@jonathanzappala 3 года назад

Weight is irrelevant it’s such a small difference. They are poor at rolling resistance compared to latex and poor on the wallet. Latex is still the winner.

@juliocarino9171 Год назад

whats the actual tire size

@TIGERARSGT 3 года назад

The fastest option is tubular > tubeless > latex tubes > butyl tubes.

@kevingolden4920 3 года назад

How/why are tubular tires better than tubeless? Doesn’t a tubular tire have the tube “sewn” in, and what’s the typical material of the tube? But from the arguments being made, won’t any type of tube add rolling resistance?

@kevingolden4920 3 года назад

I would to see Mark do a second part to this test, performing the same test, on a tubeless and tubular setup with the same tire.. maybe the Continental GP 5000.. but I don’t recall seeing a tubular model in that tire 🤔

@swe223 3 года назад

There is a factor of 4.5 to apply when comparing rolling resistance on the road vs on a roller. You just completely ignored that...

@francescorota2982 3 года назад

I think he did, he said 182W with butyl and 161W with latex tubes which would be 21W savings but with the 4.5 coefficient is roughly 10W saved

@swe223 3 года назад

@@francescorota2982 With a 4.5 factor, 21W on the roller corresponds to "only" 4.6W on the road (2.3W per tyre), which is not so phenomenal but still a good gain.

@daviddawn9043 Год назад

Not just watts better puncture resistant and more comfortable on the road

@shepshape2585 2 года назад

Has nobody pointed out that he got the math wrong? He said he averaged 182 watts with the butyl tubes, and 161 watts with the latex, and that the difference was 11 watts. The correct answer is 21 watts, which would be even more significant.

@mauriciorosales1259 3 года назад

I got some latex tubes, but with all of the warnings on the box that they should not be used on carbon wheels; I never put them on ( heat from him rim breaks is my risk]

@trbeyond 3 года назад

Mauricio Rosales the risk of the tubes getting too hot is pretty limited. Very few triathlon courses are going to have the sort of decent that require braking that long and hard

@seanjennings3134 3 года назад

Is the power saving enough to warrant the increased puncture risk? Will latex tubes buy you an extra 3 minutes in an Ironman to change your tyre?

@veganpotterthevegan Год назад

Yes, they'll buy you more than 3 minutes. That said, it's always cost benefit analysis. If you don't want flats, use heavy, slow tires with tire liners.

@jeremystig98 3 года назад

As i see it Latex is for time trials, because you usually don't break hard or take any major corners. You don't want your innertubes to burst going downhill at +60kmh, so for anybody riding hilly areas probably want to stay with butyl unless you wanna die or something.

@francisville4132 3 года назад

Latex Inner tubes are too expensive. At least in Germany

@madmonkeycycling9098 3 года назад

€10 for a michelin latex inner tube. Best bang for buck

@stanandre4539 3 года назад

Having to pump latex tubes pretty much every time you go for a ride gets pretty annoying.

@mejartomlinson7065 3 года назад

Only use latex for races. Its fine getting dropped in training rides on butyl

@MrBJPitt 3 года назад

@@mejartomlinson7065 exactly. And you certainly will be checking pressures come race day.

@MrBJPitt 3 года назад

@Savage Poet would you prefer I said - "my imaginary friend commanded"??? You are a sad troll, did your mum not make you mac and cheese for dinner?

@JoeJoe-lq6bd 3 года назад

You'll lose pressure in the middle of a long ride on latex. They do ride great but they aren't worth the trouble and they flat really easily.

@mattsharpe3989 3 года назад

So for the 99.99999% of viewers that are not pro cyclists, it makes no difference...if you want to go faster for free, grow up, hike up your shorts and WORK HARDER. Don't be a weight weenie, you'll be disappointed after you've spent a fortune on a carbon bike and all the upgrades, then have a beer gut on an entry level alloy bike pass you on your commute

@2Calam Год назад

its got nothing to do with the 25g weight saving.

@bikeanddogtrips 3 года назад

you look a little tired, mark. don't neglect your sleep.

@ddt8324 3 года назад

This is all consumerist bullshit. 90% of triathletes would barely benefit from these changes. The best rewards would come from more specific training. Stop looking to buy seconds.