Cheap Citroën C6 Project 20: A LAND ROVER channel taught me about my Citroen C6. Confused? 

Christian (Knows nothing about Toyota!) and Vera (Oh my God!) are great to watch. I wish I had a small part of his engineering knowledge and love his workshop.

And a "Top tip" , when changeing oil in a "modern" car with a cartridge filter from above. Change the filter first, so the old oil in the filter goes down in the sump

LR Time is quite simply one of the finest RU-vid channels out there. Christian is an outstanding engineer. I first watched the channel about four months ago and I too warmed to the guy right away. I actually own a Toyota Auris 1.6 which should be given 0w/20 according to Toyota. But I’ve always used 5w/30. Hope I’ve made the right choice.

My good lady bloody hates these engines. She worked in a Land Rover independent for 5 years, and they could do two a week with snapped cranks. 5w40 is a good plan though. I know from BMW stuff that they recommend a low SAPS oil, usually a c3 for all of them. My 330i estate is on 201k now and I do a change with 5w30 C3 every 10k. That said, you’ve encouraged me to think about the switch to 5w40 at the next change, as it burns around a litre every 3-4,000 miles.

Christian and Vera are great to watch and, I bet nobody knows them better. I do think you may not have appreciated Christians sense of humour though.

That LRTime video is (one of) the reasons I walked away from buying a Jag XF with one of those engines. Maybe it would have been fine and I'd have been the lucky one, but once I knew the risks I don't think I'd have ever been able to relax.

I have a Jag XJ 2.7 and LR time is compulsory viewing. Mine is at 180,000 miles and I've been using 5w40 for a while. I think it's the way to go, especially in warmer climates. I also fitted a later oil pump to mine (actually bought it from a Citroen dealer) because the original one had the weak boss for timing belt.

Christian is a proper engineer and knows his stuff on the TDV6.

Been watching LR Time for a long time. They are great. Very methodical. I was going to comment on one of your previous videos about boost leaks, to go watch their channel where they make a smoke machine and find intake/boost leaks.

Great video, love LR time as well. I think the main issue was the fact that the V6 was designed as far as I understood by PSA then licensed to Ford/JLR. I think that all the oil pump and issues with cranks etc come from trying to remake and reorientation of an engine and pushing it out of its original design perameters, for example the oil pumps are different and the loading on the crank etc. Great vid as always 👍

I heard about the ACEA ratings and how important it is to get a low-SAPs oil for cars with DPFs. When I was doing research, almost every Renault with a DPF wants C4, the lowest SAPs oil commercially available, but both C3 and C4 have a higher dynamic viscosity than the C2, i.e, better for wear, worse for mpg. Dizzying stuff.

I miss the days when we just put 20W 50 in everything....

You should try the JLM DPF cleaner before you strip the car bud. I swear by it. Just spray the can with hose into the DPF pressure sensor hose before the DPF and leave for 10 min start engine and its cleared. I normally only use half a can on each vehicle. Check diagnostic information if it needs another spray leave engine running and fill the rest of can in. Never had a come back yet. And check your PAT fluid tank see if it's empty. Normally them Peugeot and Citroëns are normally good. Ebay £60 for 3ltrs. Never seen your channel before but just subscribed 👍

Did you see Seaside Garage's vlog this morning with the 18cc ( yes eighteen cc ) diesel engine to power a cycle which also has variable timing and compression that ran on any fuel??? Amazing technology but I suppose in the immediate post war Germany anything that got you mobile was a step up? Great watching.

It's an interesting subject, because certainly in 2005 PSA recommended viscosity grades ranging from 5W-30 to 15W-40 depending on climate (5W-30 and 5W-40 were permitted in cold and temperate climates, with 10W-40 in temperate and hot climates, and 15W-40 in hot climates), in the 2.7 HDi. Land Rover, even back then, were only recommending 5W-30 for all climates in the 2.7 TDV6. I know the oil Christan and Vera use also meets WSS-M2C917-A, which is a re-write of VW 505.01 for engines with VW's Pump Deuse (PD) technology, as they used the VW PD engine in the Galaxy. It's got significantly higher wear protection than ACEA C3, but was never specified for any Lion V6 application. Now, I don't know the recommendations from PSA for the 3.0 HDi but Land Rover were still recommending 5W-30 but ultra-low SAPS based on ACEA C1; however they did say you could also use ACEA C2. In 2018, Ford started using an adaption of this engine in the Ford F-150, known as the 3.0 Power Stroke. They stated that for best fuel economy up to 5% biodiesel concentration, 5W-30 meeting WSS-M2C214-B1 (based on API FA-4) was preferred, but for severe usage and when using biodiesel, 5W-40 meeting WSS-M2C171-F1 (based on API CK-4) must be used. They also say below -30°C (-22°F) you must use a 0W-40 meeting WSS-M2C171-F1. My personal opinion is this. Wherever possible, use 5W-40 meeting WSS-M2C171-F1 and API CK-4, especially as we have biodiesel levels up to 7% in the UK. This oil is suitable for vehicles with and without a DPF. If this is not available, use a 5W-40 meeting PSA B71 2296 and ACEA A3/B4 if you have a vehicle that does not require low-SAPS oils, or a 5W-40 meeting WSS-M2C917-A and ACEA C3 if you do have a vehicle requiring low-SAPS oils. The Engine Oil Company here in the UK sells Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 Fully Synthetic, which is approved by Ford to WSS-M2C171-F1, and carries an API CK-4 license which is rarely seen in the UK.

I’m a Citroen man too, I know which channel you are talking about, I’ve seen it. I’ve also heard the the PSA version doesn’t have the crankshaft issues that bad so they may have addressed the issue. Hope that cheers you up. Andrew

Do not apologise for the unintended ending. As I was thinking "Don't worry about it," I realised that your audience watches exactly to see things go wrong--and then to see the struggles and, mostly, the triumph over adversity. Until the next time things go wrong.

This deal about oil grade doesn't surprise me one bit. I have heard of VAG engines grenading on 0W20 oil. If you put in 5W30 it's all good. Toyota specifies 2 grades for the Prius3/Auris1/Lexusct200h (same 1.8L engine) either 0W20 or 5W30. 5W30 works fine for me.

These LandRover TDV6 engines are different to the Citroen ones, the PSA ones have a different oil pan design to the LandRover ones and have two turbos instead of just the one. These PSA engines seem to be more reliable than the LandRover ones. This PSA engine was also used by Jaguar in the XJ.

Yep had this same engine in my Jag S Type.. Was reliable enough.. had it remapped - the power was great to be fair! over 560NM of Torque it went like stink for what it was!

Check the oil pump as soon as you get chance, just changed mine on my jag xj with the same engine... start up rattle reduced to a second or so (5 seconds before) not to mention the engine nuclear issue with the timing pully mount on the pump..... they did 3 very very important updates to the pump since 2008... LR time goes into detail about the issue..... Its a err 'fun' job on the jag, i presume yours will be the similar.... will make a great vid as most cover the LR install but these are so much more... FUN👍👍

A good place to be, if your reputation for your work is that good matey. Great video, keep them coming.

Ive also watched his channel on the Discovery 3 he and his good wife have there. Sound advice from our German friend.

PD Volkswagen engines are superb, like you say use the correct oil, changed at the right time, they will run for ever. One of the few really tuneable diesels too.

I watch Christian & Vera's channel, Christian is a fantastic engineer & what he's said about the dumbass 5/30 oil, i'm thinking the same on my Peugeot engined Fiesta Diesels to 10/30

LR time recently had a video about cleaning some sludged up engine ancilliaries with a chemical concoction that was basically washing powder (for clothes) and caustic soda / Sodium Hydroxide. It worked really well so maybe investigate this for cleaning the DPF ? And then Hubnut can do it to his clogged-up underpowered Berlingo ?

The crankshaft snapping is down to how well it was forged and heat treated as well as the poor design. If it's one that's destined to snap it'll snap. Nearly bought a C5 estate with the 2.7 engine. Glad I didn't. Favourite Citroen engine was the XUD9 in Xantia. Bulletproof. Had loads of them (owned a taxi company).

7:00 I have a 207 Gti Peugeot in Australia. I can tell you 5/30 here will have you topping up every trip out. Just eats it. Right, back to the video.

Christian and Vera are great he has a ramp at his home as in germany they put in 3x phase supply in your home

I don't own a Landrover or a Citroen but I really enjoy their content. I signed up having watched the same post a while back.

I’ve had a d3, I sold it in the end because the gearbox needed a rebuild and I kept on thinking the engine was going to go bang, have to say in 40 thousand miles it was great, but pricy to service and keep working, would love another one just keep on thinking about engine problems in the future, last one had a major service including oil pump when I first bought it £1000 bill..

.... Take Wagner MicroCeramic Oil additive. I've own self a 2012 Citroën C6 3.0 hdi and a 1981 ex gdr Citroën GSA Pallas. I can you recommend it, do use it in both cars (by GSA also still in the mechanical gearbox). Working really great 👍👌

Quite often there is a TSB changing the oil spec both viscosity and volume. As I remember it was especially commonon psa diesels. Didnt have many v6 models in the peugeot dealership though. The ones we did have were mostly petrols like 606s

Hi, I watched this land rover video with the German couple and it was so informative and technically all made perfect sense. I have been so tempted to buy a C6 .But the 2.7 hdmi and the road tax cost puts me off. At present a drive a 2006 1.6 HDi C5.. Strangely enough I've always use 5w40 fully synthetic (PD standard) but I'm lucky that my C5 is a rare non dpf or non fap in the old français.

Can't beat a dip in the sea on a hot day like we're having atm.

If the crap motor has a oilseparator behinde the oilfilter, remember to change this also when doing the DPF, this is a common issue on LR that cause the DPF to clock up. Also the metalpipe from the front of the DPF to the Dif sensor gets blocked. But this isn't the first PSA/Ford motor that are crap, the 1,4TDI had a raised oilpan, so in a fact there was arround 0,7L old oil in the pan when the oil was drained, and even worse, the oiltube for the turbo got blocked, no oil, new turbo. And the Ecotech with wet camshaft belt ohhhh no.

Christian who know nothing about Toyota is great. I look forward to their videos each week. Enjoyed your video also!

It still boggles me why Ford, who went to Peugeot years ago for a "Good" diesel engine. (Even though they sent them the older version for the Sierra) Suddenly thought they could do it better. I suppose it comes down to the economies of parts sharing in the end.

Castrol recommended 5w-30 for my BMW 760 (6 litre v12). Well with 218,000 miles that was not a good idea. Added Liqui Moly. Tried Lucas leak stop. Changed to 10w40 and it doesn't need 1L every 500miles, more like 1,500 miles and that is nearer expected. PS Better to pour the oil with the can the other way up. It will glop/splash less.

Discovery 3 turbo diesel engine oil is SAE 5W-30 meeting specification WSS-M2C913-B only ! You wil find that Christian and Vera discovered that. You will notice that they both have a discovery. I have worked on the design of lots of things including cars.

The Oldsmobile diesel is far from the worst diesel engine ever. Unless you have one of the very early ones (pre-1981) which had a lot of manufacturing defects from being pushed out to market really quickly, the only problem the later ones have is weak head bolts. ARP makes head studs that fix that problem, and Cometic can make a set of custom MLS (multi layer steel) head gaskets for $89 each. Once that upgrade is done, plus a better fuel filter with a water separator, the rest of the engine is incredibly durable. My friend drives one in an 82 Toronado every day that has 542,000 miles (872,264 km), and has standard size cylinders and factory pistons. We had the cylinder heads off to do the stud and gasket upgrade, and amazingly the cylinders looked brand new, as if they didn't have more than 10,000 miles on them. Perfect crosshatching and everything. The amazing thing is that it made it to over 500,000 miles on the factory weak head bolts. Being oversquare, and with long connecting rods, the cylinder wear using the proper 50wt oil is near zero. There is little to no side thrust on the cylinder walls. The piston pins are offset to further minimize side thrust. The block is incredibly strong, it's not aluminum, the engine you're thinking of is the Cadillac HT4100, which is a piece of junk and has a porous aluminum block and iron heads. Driving a car with one is a very pleasant experience, especially with the 4 speed overdrive transmission. Even though the later version has only 105 HP, that's Gross HP, with all accessories running. If it was rated in the old Net HP, it would probably be closer to 220-225 or so. The fuel can be turned up a bit if you have the stud and gasket upgrade. His does around an 8 second 0-60 with the overdrive transmission, and the engine has a wonderful sound. That's what is unique about it. It's a diesel V8 that is intended as a high fuel economy substitute to a gasoline V8 of the time period. It has a similar power curve, but with a lower torque curve, it has a similar sound, but with the added diesel clatter, and it really delivers with the fuel economy. 40 mpg (5.88l/100km) is what it gets on the highway. This is a massive car weighing 4200 lbs (1900 kg), and having a massive fuel tank of 23 gallons (87 liters). That kind of fuel economy is really impressive and it provides incredible range without refilling the tank. No other car that I know of has those attributes, large comfortable car, with a diesel engine, that gets very good fuel economy. It's honestly very impressive. GM also made a V6 version, that went in transverse FWD cars and some RWD cars. It didn't even have the head bolt issue, as it had 6 head bolts per cylinder rather than the 4 of the V8. They are much more rare but also sought after. As soon as someone has one for sale in good shape, it is sold a day or two later. I've been trying to buy a 4.3 powered car for 10 years now, and I still haven't managed to do it.

Christian knows his stuff... The v6 diesels are garbage but the Land Rover lr3 petrol 4.4 v8 is a fantastic engine and car. Probably the best Land Rover ever.

When it comes to engine oil there are a few things to bear in mind. Thinner oils will cushion main and big end bearings less at running temperature, but also reduce drag, enabling marginally better power, torque, mpg and emissions in strict EU testing, chasing very strict limits. Of course the oil used in testing has to be what is recommended for that engine in normal use, encouraging a compromised grade to become what the manufacturer recommends. Manufacturers do not care about engine durability beyond the warranty period, when excess wear means increased revenue from repairs and servicing for the dealership networks. My V6 petrol Jag recommends 5w30, but I always use 0w40, to help cold start up circulation and hot running protection. Is 0w at cold too thin? Well it would be far thicker than 30w when engine hot, so no. is 40w when hot too thick? Well it would again be far thinner than 5w when cold, so no. So overall the engine never experiences viscosities at any temp, that it may not with the recommended grade. Multigrade oils tend to get more expensive as the gap between the low and high number increases, so I use lesser known Mannol 0w40 and change every 3000 miles. I also use oversized oil filters where possible and find the specs listed on the Mann filter website to make finding something bigger that still fits space, seal, thread, and valve pressure requirements very useful.

From memory, I don't think there's any definitive standard on "semi-synthetic" vs "synthetic", so I'd worry more about weight, meeting standards like the low SAPS stuff, and buying a quality make (personally I like Millers). In general, oil you're using on modern cars is a carefully done blend of different oil stocks and additive packages formulated to do a job. I think the low SAPs stuff has some bearing on timing chain life as I think the soot it cuts down on can stick to chains and increase wear on tensioners.

Christian is THE Authority on the TDV6, Fantastic Channel. OMG 😂

Can’t change it too often full stop. Doesn’t matter if it’s a diesel.

Jaguar Xf shares the same engine, I’ll be changing mine too as I think I can hear things since i changed my oil too , I might add a Lucas oil additive 🤔 as for your Dpf, four dishwasher tablets in a hot water solution through the pressure pipe will wash it out perfectly 🫡

On the subject of landrovers and snapped crankshaft, Matt from High Peak Autos, always changes the auto gearbox oil before he sells a Land Rover/Range Rover. His thinking is although they have a lifetime guarantee etc, it does deteriorate and put extra strain on the engine and in particular the weak crankshaft. So every car gets a gearbox service before it's sale and therefor don't come back under warranty with an engine failure!

You could replace the sniggering clip, with jayemm and the mercedes vito wobbly passenger seat.

I work with a Citroen dealer a Motaquip oil and parts are actually what we use.

Love the laughy guy at 5:20 😂 😅

Thanks for another great video you and the hubnut are my favourite car chaps, PS there are rumours that you and hubnut are the same person because never seen together on screen 😮😅

Don't put 5w40 without knowing what your engine insidemeasurements are. In a diffrent video in LR TIME he put 5w30 in that engine because the inside measurments of that engine were very tight. Look the viscosity of 5w30 when they are warm and find the thinker one. For example Selenia 5w30 ACEA C2 is thinner then Castrol 5w30 ACEA C2. So if you want thicker oil choose Castrol.

I also changed to 5W40 because of LR time, also changed my C6's big end bearings and oil pump. Engine is so much quieter overall, now. Interestingly enough in the engine bay on my C6 there is a sticker saying to use ACEA A3/B4 oil. Wonder why Citroen DID that and not state ACEA C2 or C3

i have the 2.7 D Stype and it is not junk if you change the oil often mine is 19 years old still running just fine, i use 5w30 but no DPF . I'll try 5/40 next change

If nothing else it’s had a half decent engine flush 🤷‍♀️ On my channel I did such a thing on my old 330d a few months ago. The method I used worked very well at serving no purpose other than to make the oil look cleaner on the dipstick and make me feel fuzzy inside. The oil stayed properly clean for well over 1000 miles.

Please say you filmed going round the Nürburgring ring in the S Max

I do also whatch LR they are absolutely great and I've also had worked for 2 summers at JLR specialist the Jag and PSA version of this engine fairs much better also at this high mileage I wouldn't worry too much about the crank bluetooth if it was to happen it would have most likely did.

And all this time I thought the crankshafts were made of cream cheese!

Modern engines seem a lot more fussy on oil than older donkeys.

5w40 was actually one of the oil recommendations for the 2.7 amd 3.0 TDV6 I ran 5w40 in my 2012 Jaguar XJL. Though due to being under warranty I would do one at the Dealer 5w30 and one at 8k miles 5w40. The camchain that rattles on start up is tiny and sits between the two camshafts. I complained about it several times and JLR said it was a characteristic not a fault. They either seem to do it or they don't Mine was still doing it at over 200k miles when I sold the car. It was 4 1/2 years old at that time.

Why do you do all this with the C6? Because She's Worth it!😎

I’ve got the lion engine in my discovery….use 5w40 and, I shove some ZX1 in as well

I talk about oil regulary with my mates (how sad)!!! because of Christian and Vera's videos. Weve got lots of cars between us, get confused with the castrol & comma oil finders vs the manufacturers book....soo many recommendations and alternatives these days.

5/40 is not thicker than 5/30. The first number is the Winter or rather cold rating, its viscosity is at 0 degrees Fahrenheit. 5/30 and 5/40 have the same viscosity at 0 degrees F. The Second number is how well its resists higher temperatures. 5/40 maintains its viscosity a higher temps than 5/30 does.

My c6 broke my heart. Every pipe n water channel

Always use a low saps oil if you have a dpf.

Interesting findings! Could somebody refer me the videos where these insights are shared? About the engine there is a dedicated video but the oil finding is it mentioned in the same?

Them thar rattling chains on startup? “They all do that, sir…”

Pulling it apart again...yay... He's got an SM you know!

i use 5w-40 instead factory 5w-30 in mondeo (with 2.0hdi more or less psa a bit ford engine). some new cars are filled with 0w-20 to go with emissions... it is crazy

Love the new Logo.

If you’re having to turn down work, time for more things to help get through the work quicker 👍👍

Have you checked LR times video re different oil pumps as some have design flaws?

What’s your views on these mobile companies ‘cleaning’ dpfs? Any good or snake oil for the masses ?

Low saps is a myth,need a car in a good shape,it will regenerate on any 5-40 oil. Thicker oil is still better for older cars.

Lr time is right about engines in land rovers,but its not right about JAGS AND PSA cars main problem is this engines are built for PASSENGER CARS not 2.5 ton heavy transfer 4x4 suvs also torque bend and turbos different in land rovers ı have jaguar s-type 2.7d 320k km no snap or anything factory engine already in ,only turbos rebuilded(refreshed) ım using 5w-30 magnatec and edge 7000-8000 km oil service this engines are good if you know how to use big diesel

Built in Dagenham you say, well that would explain some things (to me) as they are think the world owes them a living there and will spend more time working out how not to do something rather than doing it (work that is)

So, you have this C6 and also an old SM? Now there is a man who loves pain and punishment in my eyes. I use 5W-40 full synthetic in everything (BMW's Mondeo's, Mitsubishi's, Holden alloy V6's and my Koleos, most of which are diesels. Only difference is the ACEA ratings that manufacturer recommends, but I am in Orstraya where it gets pretty damn hot most times.

Don’t panic, these engines do better in Citroen/Peugeot applications. I have no idea why, less weight to chug around? Transverse installation?

C6 ? buy the 3.0 HDi, bullet proof, quiet, super smooth, and made for this car ..... but try finding one, no really, Try !

Lovely job another good video ⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍👏👏

5wdum'ass Like many I follow their channel 😂. I run my DW10 (in a Berlingo) on 5w40 for the same reasons. It's much quieter, also the oil gets punished as I tow a caravan, and it's done 140,000. My wives car runs on 5w20, now that's wee wee😅

I think the Jaguar S Type had this engine as well

😂 I work on this engines a lot and it is not always easy.

The fact is that Ford has never been able to design a proper diesel engine. As a Ford apprentice i worked on Transits, A-line and the word was that the vehicles was so cheap that there was money for an new engine when the original blew up.

I would Recommended 5w40 f very Bevore 2015

Nice haircut! 😃

There are reasons they use VW kombi\beetle engines in more than 370 aircraft types and nobody uses Toyota ones :)

That pair of Germans are great, I subscribe and don’t even want to own a Landrover! (Blinking wise anyway)

Dude, that is NOT the fluidity of a 5W30 oil, you certainly have oil dilution (with diesel). Just my 2 cents. People please lemme know if I'm wrong.

20W50, and change it at twice the recommended frequency. The thicker the oil the better the lube. Don't care about emissions and I don't mind worse mpg.

Strange. I had a TDV6 in a Jag S-type and it was really…. 🤔…. Well, it was pokey enough after a remap. More or less 😂

Never heard of a crank failure on a Citroen or Peugeot 2.7HDi

L R Time is compulsory viewing!

Interesting stuff re the oil.. so does that mean we will soon see ads for “Did you own a V6 diesel Citroen decades ago then join our cheating emissions with a thinner oil group action claim”?

LR Times is great :)

Do acea c3 oil go in All normal cars?

You didn't mention that you have a SM, so I'll do it for ya Hey everyone, he's got an SM hidden in there...he's hiding it from us 😂

No, because the engines are the same? (But I’ll watch the video and find out)! PSA/Ford engine joint venture and at the time Ford owned PAG (Premier Automotive Group) and spread its engines to JLR, Mazda and others.