Full conversation with Magnus Carlsen: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0ZO28NtkwwQ.html Quick note from Lex: The camera on Magnus died 20 minutes in. Most folks still just listen to audio-only version, but here on RU-vid we did our best to still make it interesting to watch & listen by adding image overlays. I mess things up sometimes, like in this case, and it hits me hard when I do. I'm sorry for this. I'm always working hard to improve. I hope you understand. Thank you for your patience and support along the way. I love you all.
Great content as always lex. Even though Magnus' camera died, I noticed you have live footage from other perspectives, when Magnus was showing the moves on the chess board. That view would be great to see for the conversation, as seeing facial expressions add an extra dimension to the conversation.
I love the idea of Fischer Random. Taking a lot of opening prep out of the game means players have to make their own moves much earlier, and I think the more pieces are on the board, the trickier it is to find the best moves (because more pieces usually make more complicated positions), more room for error, and more room for small differences in skill to turn into decisive advantages.
I don't even play the game and what Fischer said makes 100% sense to me. The memorization has destroyed creativity. If you randomize the back row pieces, the creativity is forced to return.
@@matttondr9282 every fischer random game was more fun to watch and to play than 100% of classical matches at the top levels. People studying moves in front of a computer for weeks to show who is the more mindless drone is never entertaining. Fischer random should replace classical chess.
Fischer Random is the next evolution of Chess. I think it will propel the game forward. Chess at a high level is important but the only place for chess to go after that point is Fischer Random. Take away the theory and leave the Man.
this is why miniature skirmish wargames are more interesting than chess to me, the variability of the initial setup, as well as varied victory conditions makes for an infinitely more interesting strategic and tactical experience.
Not really, Capablanca was already saying the same things earlier in the century. That’s why he invented Capablanca chess. Fischer’s variant is definitely better though because it doesn’t require any additional pieces and can be played with a regular set.
@@matttondr9282 lol. Well yeah he was ahead of his time. Not because of Fischer random. Though you could say relatively he was still ahead because of it, only since the rest of the chess world moved so slowly and should have come up with it sooner.
Bobby Fischer's contribution of Random Chess is absolutely brilliant, and life saving for this beautiful game, which is being threatened by book moves and bloody computers. More thinking, more original ideas, more actual chess decisions .. less memorization and fewer recommended engine lines... can only be a good thing.
I'm pretty sure FIscher would be really upset knowing Fischer Random got recognized but without the proper time control which make the whole idea pointless. The game forces you to come up with creative ideas and its kinda hard to get it with very short time control.
the main issue with chess is that the more the theory advances the more the early game will be "solved". This creates a rapidly rising skill floor for any upcoming talent. Basically, if you wanna have any shot in competition you need to KNOW your first 6-7 moves perfectly which is VERY hard to do given how many different combinations there are. Chess960 keeps the advantage of knowing theory, but makes less of a requirement since the early game will be randomized such that memorizing openings is futile.
It will never cease to amaze me that humanity was able to create what is essentially the perfect boardgame 1000 years ago. I know some things have changed in that time but the basic game, the locations of the pieces hasn't. Think of all the money spent developing new games in the modern age and not one of them has ever come close to matching chess, in 1000 years no one will be playing Monopoly or Call of Duty but they will still be playing chess.
@@bobbysnobby Go doesn't have as many exciting elements as chess--things like asymmetry of the pieces, crazy positional sacrifices, the concept of a checkmate to end the game at any time, etc. Abstract strategy games are all cool with me though!
Lol, Call of duty isnt even the best multiplayer shooter, or what? ... Though some of their campaigns are pretty good. Counter strike has the more minimal classics small maps shooter gameplay, with a lot of possibilites, Battlefield as the literal better mass battling with a lot of vehicles and enviroment changing, Rainbow six siege spins the formula and evolves it further 5 vs 5, but also goes more arcade and fighting game like with all its characters and special abilities and weapons. What makes call of duty multiplayer so special? Also as long as their is money and property, monopoly will exist.
@@FirstNameLastName-bt9cv No, it is not. First which power are you talking about ? 5 hand or poker hold them 2 card hand. Further, though poker is a cool game and has some strategy to it, it has to much luck involved to be compared to Chess, even 960.
@@bobbysnobby How is go simpler to explain than chess ? Giant board, different countries China, Korea,etc. have different rules, very many different situations .
I had a friend who knew way more basic chess move sets, and would generally win because of his memory background with the basic setup. He straight up refused to play 960, because he thought he'd be at a disadvantage in such an improv game. Shame! I prefer to play 960 when I can because I don't put too much time into chess itself
1) New players are facing people with years or decades of time spent memorizing opening positions, so big disadvantage for new players 2) long term players aren't willing to play chess960 because they spent so much time and effort memorizing openings theory that they will feel they wasted their time, even though they might secretly know that chess960 is a superior game
@@Nata-ch2bk regular chess is still way more popular online than chess960 amongst all rating levels. And your point about beginners being at a disadvantage because of not knowing theory is solved by playing players at your own level who also don’t know theory. And now supergms cant even draw against an engine with white. So the game is still very rich. Hikaru has pawn odds against Komodo and he lost 10-0 😂 and look how alpha zero proved that there are so many possibilities of long term piece sacrifices that we can’t even comprehend lol.
@@liamweinberg4902 "And your point about beginners being at a disadvantage because of not knowing theory is solved by playing players at your own level who also don’t know theory" -> That doesn't really solve the problem I was talking about, because if you want to improve in standard chess, you will not have a choice but to go through the tedious work of learning openings by heart, because you if you want to climb, you will face people who've spent years/decades learning those openings by heart. So the only way is to spend years/decades learning openings yourself. I'd say this is a disadvantage if you're not a fan of spending so much time memorizing stuff. Even if you get to the point where you understand endgame and strategy better than let's say the average 1200 elo player, as well as have a better tactic level than they do, you will still lose tons of games against them just because of opening tricks that you are not aware of. And the only way to not fall for those tricks, is to do tons of opening theory study. This issue doesn't exist in chess960. If you understand chess better and you have strong potential for tactics, you won't face the wall of opening tricks that needs years of study to catch up. "So the game is still very rich. Hikaru has pawn odds against Komodo and he lost 10-0 😂 and look how alpha zero proved that there are so many possibilities of long term piece sacrifices that we can’t even comprehend lol." -> This is a legitimate opinion, but I personally do not share it. I do not think comparing humans with machines shows any richness to the game of standard chess. And even if that was the case, those details would apply for chess960 as well, meanwhile chess960 can offer a lot more freedom and creativity. Nowadays, GMs prepare tournaments by reviewing opening lines based on what their opponents usually play. They need full teams of support, in addition to machines, to help them do that very tedious work. In chess960, GMs will prepare tournaments by just trying to get better at the game. As well as getting a better understanding of chess960 or chess in general. Can't get an advantage by memorizing lines anymore, so it makes for a much richer gameplay.
The world champion should be determined with Fischer Random. Do away with players who out memorize their opponent and reward the player who can truly play the best.
I love a good game of 960, but it can take a while to get paired for a game. It should be more popular, it's actually a better if you enjoy calculation and novelty. There should be a no mirroring rule though, maybe you can't mirror more than 5 moves.
I’d be interested in a Go analogous scoring method, where black gets more points for a draw. E.g., black gets .6 and white .4. So not .5/.5. So in 5 games, all black draws = 3 and all white = 2. It would perhaps force more dynamic play. And it makes white strive to prove the advantage.
I had assumed Magnus was going to speak about plowing through pieces that were in the way, and not necessarily part of the attack. Then I thought he was going to talk about how it can help for defense as well. I guess he just wanted to give a quick example of why you may want to a lose a significant piece.
Alpha Zero team published a paper on these chess variants and allowed their system to learn them at a super human level. You can read it online, with analysis of many games played. It should be interesting to see how these new rules change the battle. They even estimate the piece values as the rules change. One variant allows pawns to move twice any time, or to move sideways... becoming very powerful pieces.
They could also do more like e.g. create a 2 headed pawn that can take pieces either 1 or 2 diagonal squares away. And place it randomly in the front row. This would create exponentially more random openings
It’s too chaotic for me to seriously enjoy. Every once in a while I enjoy watching the top guys play. Eg Magnus vs Hikaru. But the fact that humans can’t even draw against super engines with white anymore proves to me that the game is still so rich. And there are thousands of amazing games documented over the years that is so interesting to look through. Chess 960 won’t allow that because every position is different, so we can’t really compare games like we can in chess. And the rate of draws at the highest level in classical is stable at around 65%. If it ever gets near 80% then it’s time to change.
@@user-vz9yi3mv3dthe only issues he had was deciding not to show the broad camera simply because the individual Magnus camera died. It was a stupid decision by Lex most probably spurred on from his perfectionist outlook on content.
Chess 960 is 960 different games! 😂 Despite the principles behind it, most people don’t want to play it. We like opening theory and also want to see the top players play with the standard setup also. We want to see them play the openings so we can learn from them.
Though the positions and potential for moves change on the board given the pieces, one thing still remains the same: the characters behind them with regard to each other.
Erm, not to explains the rules of chess to the greatest GM of the contemporary era, but do the rules of castling, off the top of my head, not state the King move two squares towards the Rook, which is placed to the King's other side. The King cannot move more than 2 squares, but the Rook could.
Even Fischer random will be solved eventually, it’s just going to take a lot more time. Every possible position will be given a name and people will plug those positions into chess engines and develop separate theory for every possible starting position
Except that the human brain cannot memorize deep lines for 960 possible starting positions. It's hard enough for just one. Players are only told the starting position 15 minutes before the game, so they are forced to use their own wit, not rely on pre-solved positions.
never happen. basic chess would take over. activate all your pieces, control center, castle, connect rooks etc. you would never be able to memorize more than 3-4 moves for 960 setups, and those 3-4 moves would almost always be basic chess
The only way to save chess is to use the rule that every time you take a piece, you have to drink a shot. Now THAT would make for some interesting games.
To hell with chess 960, just call it by its original name, Fischer Random, in honour of the person who made the case that chess opening theory ruins chess. Who was so disrespectful to try to change the name? Before you it know it, some bastard will steal the idea and protect the name Chess 960 for their own greed.
this is why miniature skirmish wargames are more interesting than chess to me, the variability of the initial setup, as well as varied victory conditions makes for an infinitely more interesting strategic and tactical experience.
@@anab0lic I looked up some of those games, and infinity seems similar to the Advance Wars series. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with it, but I think you might enjoy it
We now have AI to solve this problem. Add new pieces and rules. Have the AI play asymmetrical variants against each other and find which ones are fair. Take the most fair 1000 or so combinations and put them into a book. Before each match, roll the dice and setup as the book indicates.
Thirty years from now folks will still be complaining that "the camera on Magnus died" -- this is history and the room for camera error in 2022 is inexcusable -- camera works just fine when interviewing guests who claim they have seen USP's, ghosts, goblins and little green men - but certainly one of the most significant and advanced humans of our time - Magnus Carlsen -- the camera on him dies during what could have been the record of a historic interview -- all that education and knowledge and yet still camera problems -- humans being all too human lol
@@captainnoyaux because first you have to agree to the order in which to place things, which has to be random so ppl don't have preparation... just saying it's not as easy as just playing c hess
There are some positions in fischer random where white has a 60+% winrate and some where white has a 44% winrate. This stops it from being competitive, period
you take those positions out or you make players play the same positions in reverse until one of them breaks the tie not tha thard to think of solutions to that
There are wars where one side is outmatched 1 to 50. Also you can just play each set-up twice, so both players play it with black and white. You seem to be pretty small-minded to not see that possibility.