Chevy vs Ford V8 Showdown! Small-Block or Windsor? | Engine Masters | MotorTrend 

What surprised you most about these tests?

Thank you for actually using a 351, every other magazine always tests the 302 vs a 350 which is not a fair comparison.

Winner: AFR. Heads made both shine.

I'm a Ford guy and I'd personally take the 351 Windsor. But both are legendary engines and both are respectable

What a badass test! Love engine masters and both of these guys too! Been watching since Roadkill season 1. Episode one and I can never get enough of these two!

They are not the same. That distributor being in the front makes life sooooooo much easier.

Now you guys just need to get a Mopar 360 on here as close to spec too.

Did anyone else notice the glowing #5 header pipe on the SBC? Looks like it was a tad on the lean side, but thats hard to fine tune using a carburetor

A very good comparison. You can't go wrong with either engine.

No surprise. With all components being fairly equal, it only makes sense the output is equal as well. After that it's just about which brand you want to give your money to.

Would be nice to see Cleveland 4V or Clevor in the mix

Would love to see a 340 dressed out the same and see how it compares.

The 4 bolt main conversion for the Windsor, made it practically indestructible. And, the advancements in the 8.8" rear, make an old grocery getter capable of walking on what we used to build in the 80s, out of a cleveland/9" combination.

Amazing they both are air pumps with the same displacement very cool to see play out.

Why I like building the SBC back in the day: More OE head options, and steel crankshafts and 4-bolt main caps were common.

Great test, and video!!!

Great comparison test. The taller deck of the Windsor allows for a much longer connecting rod. The 351M/400 rod with that combination would be an interesting build.

Great video. Would have been cool to add in a mopar 360 in there aswell just for comparison.

Back in the early 1980s the gap between Ford and Chevrolet small block engines was much greater because the factory cylinder heads for Chevrolets had a much better exhaust port than the Windsor head, and affordable aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads were still years away. I bought a set of Brodix street heads for my Camaro in 1987 because I had the money and they were ready for unleaded gas. But a few years later companies were selling aftermarket Ford heads that were much, much better than anything that had been on the market up until then, which really narrowed the gap.

i really like watching this show.... they do so many comparisons .. that ive always wondered about .. like mechanical fans compared to electric fans....2.5 exhaust to 3 inch exhaust ect

It would be cool to see you guys do modern vs old school 1960-1970s shoot out of comparable setups. I’m dumb so maybe it would be a completely lop sided comparison but it would be cool.

Awesome test the best ive seen that was fair. I'd love to see same test done on a Cleveland vs Ls chev with same cam compression intake so we can do a 4way comparison.

One other thing that could be contributing to the horsepower difference is the distributor location. If you are getting your timing from the distributor, the further away from the timing chain the distributor is it will have more timing deflection the higher the RPM due to the pressure from moving the valves creating a torsional twist on the camshaft. If you are using crank trigger ignition, this does not matter, and from what I have seen as far as it being measured, it's only been detectable at very high RPMs usually starting around 7k, but for a horsepower difference. As small as you all saw, this could contribute I believe.

With the best factory production OEM iron heads available for each engine family, the Chevy would have a huge advantage on a Windsor Ford. The aftermarket heads definitely even the score. The stock Windsor heads just weren't designed with big flow and power in mind. Of course, an equivalent build level OEM iron head Boss 351 would put the hurt to any stock iron head 350 SBC.

Great show, love how they challenge the myths in the engine world.

You two do a great job and Steve is a treasure.

would of been good to see how each engine responded to some timing changes

How does the weights of the engines compare - any difference ?

Ford Chev or Chrysler V8. Doesn't matter. They all still sound better than the tumble dryer motor in a Tesla

Great show thank you

This reminds me of the good old Days when all this awesome content was on RU-vid all the time and not locked behind a paywall.

Fair test . To often I hear the chevy guys comparing the 350 to the 302

What is the weight difference?

Thanks for the video.

Great video 👍

Do a 7.3L Godzilla VS Chev showdown

Now let's see a 283 sbc vs a 289 sbf!

That's crazy. I thought it would be close but that's awesome

NICE TEST

Watch Richard Holdner's videos. He proves time and again that brand does not matter. Similar head flow, cam timing, displacement, and compression will all make similar power.

Thanks for all the awesome information! You all are amazing!

It would be nice to see some Pontiac stuff. I understand it’s a fair bit more niche as far as the hobby goes but there’s still a lot of folks both young and old building them and getting started.

Hey! if you could find it in your heart could you do an episode on the diffrences between gm small blocks from the 60s. like the pontiac olds and buick v8s and what there diffrences were. the olds v8 is particularly intresting as it was able to keep up with emisions laws till the 90s only using a carb.

Thanks for sharing

What is the weight difference between the two?

So where was the test for the 351 Cleveland????

Great video.

What was the camshaft set at in each engine? Were they both set at the advance?

Awesome test! I was pretty hard on you guys a couple years ago with the 455 vs 460 shootout. Not because I'm a Ford guy, but because of the build differences. This was really impressive and absolutely demonstrates that in similar applications either motor is a great choice! For this I would stick with the bow tie motor because even though the Ford made a couple more HP and Torque, you demonstrated on a similar build there just isn't enough difference. Also, in what I would be looking at for a 350ish application would most likely be a Chevy platform.

This is a good comparison I'm a fan of the Big 3 mainly old school, I will never mix and match I keep everything Ford, Ford, Chevy, Chevy and Dodge, Dodge. Would be nice to see a 3 way match.

Would be interesting to compare an AMC 360 and a Mopar 360 together like this.

This is actually a great video. I'm not surprised because both engines are from the same technology era.

I’ve had a 73 ,75 and a 79 Blazer and I own a 79 Bronco that I’ve had about 10 years or so and all three blazers together are nowhere near as tuff as a 79 Bronco. A 12 bolt rear end is a piece of glass when you run a 35 inch tire and a 350 turbo trans is fine in a car but once again the 350 turbo trans does not like 35 inch tires where as a Ford 9 inch rear end and a C6 trans laughs at 35 inch tires and if you don’t believe me try it your self

How about using the best production head for each engine?

Old derby racer here. Take away the water ) see which one runs longer )

What about the heads?? Valve size, runner size, chamber size?? Interesting video!!

Now, if the 351 Cleveland was used instead of the Windsor it would be totally different!

I've said it for YEARS, you take any small block V8 from that era and do the exact same build, they will be virtually identical in performance.

Is there a difference in gross weight (with fluids)?

whats up with that glowing header pipe? on the sbc? is that normal?

I'd rather have the 350 over the 351W, 351C over both. back in the 80's edelbrock had a 351C at over 700hp, pump gas, on their dyno. fun fact: the Miami Vice white Ferrari had a 351C NOS injected because the factory motor didn't have the power needed for the stunts.

It's almost like physics dictates how engines make power. Put the same air, fuel, and spark through the same number of cubic inches at the same time and you make the same power. IT'S MAGIC! No really it's called physics and physics don't care about your feelings.

My ‘72 Mustang has a 351 Cleveland rebuilt and bored over to a 359 Cleveland, by Barnett High Performance. It was OEM block fully machined, OEM crank and rods, cast pistons, 2V heads with hp valve job and stainless valves, custom design hydraulic roller cam, Edelbrock Performer dual plane aluminum intake, Holley 650 CFM double-pumper carburetor, and MSD ignition system. They dyno tested the block and it made 389 horsepower at 5,400 RPM, with 422 ft-lb of torque at 3,700 RPM

The real test would be in durability, that close of power numbers would be unnoticeable on the street

Id love to se a chassis dyno with both engines bolted to the same tranny and rear end set up to see if it keeps being the same. I think it should…. I believe the outcome would be decided by car weight then…

Would have been really cool if you weighed them both as well

What are the top power numbers achieved by NA 350s and 351s?

I love your show I have learned a lot

This was fun, but I’m still a Mopar guy. Would of liked to see a 340 or a 360 in the mix.

now lets see once and for all, lets test to see what the baddest small block on the planet,---351C vs 340mopar vs 350 chevy. im voting 351 Cleveland

Where these the as cast Enforcer heads or the CNC Eliminator heads?

Both engines are awesome.

Good job guys. Very nice test. Really encouraging for the Ford guys out there. Nice engines, both of them. Thanks for sharing. Take care, EM.

That was agreat comparison. I've been a chevy fan all my life. So I'll keep running Chevy

I cut my teeth in our '69 Mach 1 - 351W equipped, which I'm still driving to this day with the same stock motor. While others have replaced/rebuilt their motor a few times, the 351W keeps on keepin' on. So of course I'm going with the Windsor. It never disappoints and always puts a big smile on my face. I'm not an engine guy (rebuilder). This is just my experience. This was a fun comparison, but says nothing of longevity of each motor, which is understandable as they weren't testing longevity. But I wonder which engine would last longer under normal use and maintenance? Better metallurgy, better rings, better springs, harder camshaft, etc. These kind of things make a huge difference. Back in the day, the Ford vs Chevy rivalry was huge. But now I think both of these engines will go down in history as two of the most versatile small block V8s ever made.

Favorite show EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What will us car guys poke fun at each other tho if the chevy and ford debate doesn't exist? 🍻

Biggest difference is the stroke capabilities. The 350 sbc 383 is as far as most stock blocks can go and the 351w can go to 410 most stock block . Sbc 400 tho would probably blow both engine out however.

At what timing curve? Should've played with the timing. The SBC loves alot of timing.

Best engine by displacement IMO -Oldsmobile 215 v-8 -Chrysler 225 slant-6 Chevy 265/283 -Ford Windsor 302 -Chevy 327 -Chevy LS1 350 -Chrysler 383 Chevy 400 -Chrysler 426 Hemi -Chevy LS7 427 -Chrysler 440 -Olds 455 -Chevy 502

I agree with Freiburger , you won't notice the difference in tq or hp , but in the past I always thought the Chevy had a better flowing head , I guess in stock trim , but technology has obviously come to the show with the AFR heads flow numbers and 2 cubic inches 😉

I'd like to see it done with a 351 clevo as that's more common here in oz

Crazy how easy it is to make 400hp nowdays

This episode was filmed in December 2017!! I can't believe its been this long

The thing is you can build a 400sbc for the same price as a 350.

I knew it! They're the same engine painted in different colors!... Lol! Actually, this is something I've argued and seen argued many times over the years. I always argued that IF you could get as close as possible to the same parts on them, the results would be pretty darn close to equal. Now we have the proof! Thanks, Frieberger, Dulcich, and Steve Brulé.!

When I was a kid, my dad told me that hp doesn't care what name is on the valve covers. I guess the old man was right! It was interesting to see a comparison between the two brands from the same era. There has been a trend to "ls swap" everything lately. Of course, the ls has 55 years of technological advantage on the windsor so it makes sense that it makes more power. Ford had been out of the pushrod game for so long. But now, the godzilla engine puts them back on par technologically. It would be interesting to see when the aftermarket for the 7.3 / 6.8 engines catch up with the ls. I suspect that the results will be basically what we saw here.

If the Chevy would of won, this guy would have telling his neighbors and the entire town about how great the Chevy is?😩

Those engines have no idea what name is on them.

Curious as to what octane fuel was used...

Bring MotorTrend on demand to Chile pleeease!!🙌

Ford been the best from the beginning, always been higher revving, longer lasting, means more fun

What this test fails to take into consideration is the glaring fact that building a Chevy will always yield more horsepower per dollar. Be curious to see a breakdown of the costs of all the parts laid out side by side. I guarantee the Chevy can be built for less.

Anyone know if they ever tested how much power a catalytic converter steels?

What size are the heads?

The graph is a bit confusing with Ford as red and Chevy as blue 😂

Try the 351 Boss or the m code Cleveland, now we’re talking 🐍

I'm still a LA series, 340 kinda guy. 👌 Steve Dulcich has taken a 340, and squeezed 580+hp. Bored, sleeved, and heads.

What CC on the AFR heads?

One added benefit of the 9.5 deck height in the Ford is it can be bored and stroked to 464 cubic inches. I'm not sure how far the Chevy can go but I think it's limited to somewhere around 410CI. Though I'm sure there are Chevy guys that can clear that up.