Every culture in the world has its own creation story of the first man and woman. There are many similarities between these creation stories even though they come from different cultures all over the planet. Of course each of these stories always takes place in that culture’s homeland. Where else would it be set? It would be weird if a people set their creation story somewhere other than their homeland.
Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell also thought that certain archetypal themes are present in all cultural stories. So there shouldnt be much of a surprise to find those themes regardless if the Spaniards planted these ideas.
@@vegadog3053 snakes representing danger/evil. Birds representing freedom/enlightenment. The archetypes can be partially explained be simplying interacting with these animals and observing them.
Once it gets started, it is hard to stop humming that Edmund Fitzgerald song. All I know is that the lake does not give up its dead when the winds of November come early.
In Hawaii in the 1980s was another similar controversy among native Hawaiians about a supposed set of scrolls found there in a cave. It was a very interesting segment of fringe Mormon life then and people got exxed over it. From what I heard Church leaders told those involved that only the prophet would receive new scripture and told them to tap it down and they didn’t at first but ultimately did. Some got re-baptized but others stayed away.
I was Education Director for a Native American tribe for 7 years. I assumed also that they wouldn’t identify themselves as Indians however I was told numerous times that they prefer the term “Indian” which puzzled me and I never received an explanation why in this particular tribe many preferred “Indian.”)
I online dated that guy while he was living in Germany (though he was going by a different name at the time). He was...unique. His conversation with me eventually made me uncomfortable and I ceased the dialogue. My impression was he left mormonism and was seeking for a similar form of social structure (including patriarchy) and would've expected me to support/follow/not contradict his views.
Jeez… I got in a debate with some TBM about this chief. I saw the shady-ness right away. I have friends (who are Native American and active LDS) and this guy seems to adorn all the stereotypical Native American traits and does not feel authentic AT ALL. Going with my gut on this one and going to say this guy is a fraud.
Are you sure he is a member of the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? He said in another RU-vid clip that he left the church. I have not seen anything that said he was re-instated. If you leave the church, and then want to come back, it takes First Presidency approval.
This is super interesting. I grew up with in the boundaries of the White Earth Indian Reservation and my family was involved with a Mission to the people of a village of Ojibwe . The mission house was burned when I was a little girl. My great nephew was baptized in the Episcopal church that also served that village. There's also a Catholic church there, that church has a guild hall and that houses a weekly "cultural "event, so named by a Native religious practitioner I know,that is also known as bingo.
Put this question in Chat GPT "Current Chiefs of the Ojibwe tribe?" The Ojibwe people are organized into various bands and tribes, each with its own leadership. Here are a few current leaders: Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe: Virgil Wind was elected as the new chief executive in April 202412. Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe: Tim Davis was recently elected as the tribal chief3. Leadership can vary significantly across different bands and regions. If you are interested in a specific band or region, I can look up more detailed information for you."
"Pictographs can be considered a proto-writing system. They are often used as mnemonic devices to aid in the recall of oral traditions, stories, and important information. For example, the Ojibwe used pictographs on birch bark scrolls to document cultural and spiritual knowledge." Chat GPT
As a native American, he has no grievances with the Mormons? They slaughtered them by the 100's and declared that they all were sinners in their pre-mortality. He's heard of the abuses in the Indian Placement Program I hope?
Mormons, do the "learn what religious syncretism is" challenge Great content once again RFM! I appreciate your tackling of this topic and it's been under covered in the exmo side of the blogernacle
Something that strikes me odd is why did this guy wait for so long before this was ever brought up? (Maybe I missed that if it was mentioned) Also, as a prop maker for a couple of films, and post apocalyptic events I have performed at, I have seen many weathering tricks done to make items look old and distressed…weathered if you will. I would love to see this scroll taken to a real forensics lab to see what kind of wood this was really made from, how old it really is, what kind of ink used, etc…I have a sneaky suspicion this isn’t what it’s said to be…
He just knows that Mormons are gullible, and already believe in nonexistent tablets and scrolls, and are predisposed to believe that native tribes may have been literate because of Smith’s stories.
It's funny how every time RFM does "research", now he's suddenly more knowledgeable and speaks as if he's the expert, on all fronts regarding any subject to do with "Mormonism". Sorry Chief Midegah, RFM knows much more than you do regarding your history, your peoples, their traditions and beliefs, and how they may or may not have come across their exposure to Christian teachings and beliefs in centuries past. I sure wish I was as all knowing as RFM is, just from doing some quick "research".
so how come that chief is the only guy believing this nonsense? just because you find one idiot who could confirm your delusional beliefs doesn't mean it's suddenly elevated to the level of a real possibility. honestly your arguments are wild 😂
@@schrecksekunde2118 The chief is not the only one. You don't know anything about his story besides what you heard on this video. If you are that gullible to only believe one source, (a known anti-mormon source at that) and actually expect that he will tell you the entire truth, rather than searching out information for yourself... well then, the jokes on you!
@@tamaraelsberry5699 One can simply listen to what the chief has to say in this video and compare the birch bark scroll to the BoM stories and come to the same conclusion that RFM reaches- that the chief (and the Heartlanders) really WANT the BoM to be true and WANT to see evidences for it in the midwestern USA and so they will deduce that the meaning of any ancient artifacts confirms their views, not matter how much they have to stretch reality.
@@tamaraelsberry5699 yeah maybe there's a huge treasure of birch bark scrolls finally proofing that your polygamist prophet who made up the book of Abraham and more actually was real. i should research that immediately!
I would store the birch bark scrolls in a stone box and place it next to the steel scimitar of General Zelph and the Grail of Manitou. RFM ignored the most obvious thing about the scroll writing: It is Reformed Egyptian.
I know for a fact that the book of Mormon is true. The audible voice of God shook me to the bone & told me to "deny not the Holy Spirit". I was talking to God, & telling Him that I thought I had "graduated religion". Meaning, I wasn't sure if I needed religion anymore. I was a bit confused at the time to say the least. I had already felt the Holy Spirit & had a burning in my bosom many, many times before. God had already testified to me by the Spirit. The warmth in my chest I felt in that moment wasn't unfamiliar. It was the burning fire of the Holy Spirit, a clear message, a familiar confirmation that resonated deeply. Undeniable. I was shown that: Joseph Smith's vision of God the Father & Jesus Christ standing together in the air was true. The Book of Mormon wasn't just any book; it was the very word of God. And the temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints weren't mere buildings, but sacred houses of the Lord, where families & couples could be eternally bound together. What other evidence did I need? By the mercy & Grace of God, I heard His voice. I will never deny it. And I will proclaim & declare it forever. Jesus Christ is the Living God. He is my Savior. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He will return to rule and reign on this earth. The Book of Mormon AND the Bible will help us draw even closer to him. I promise this is true. We must repent & have faith in Him. I share this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
@@MormonDiscussion Someone else's spiritual experience is not relevant. A persons spiritual experience is just that... PERSONAL. Tailored to what that person needs to learn at that moment in time, on his own personal journey. Only God knows what's in a persons heart, his fears, his misconceptions, his foundation of spiritual knowledge, or lack of it.
I have done a lot of research on spiritual experiences. In fact, I’ve made it my life. True spiritual experiences do not contradict what I’m talking about. The problem is, when a person is, by default, unreasonably skeptical, and doesn’t believe what people say, as a rule… then they can never understand what another person’s encounter with the Divine is actually about, and why it is significant… other people’s spiritual experiences are certainly inspirational and profound and can cause one to have the faith to seek their own encounter with God. For example, my great grandfather raised his mother from the dead with the Holy priesthood in the name of Jesus, as explained in the recent conference talk by Shane Bowen, April 2024. I heard my grandfather talk about this story when I was just a young lad sitting at his feet, it is well documented, with many witnesses. It had a great impact on me even at such a young age. We all get to choose whether we believe or not. Jesus raised people from the dead when He was on Earth and they killed him. The truth is there. We just have to seek it with all our heart, and choose to believe the Holy Spirit when He testifies of the truth to us. No one forces anyone to believe. We all get to choose. Keep your eyes in the glory of God.
Do we even know how old the scrolls are? Has anyone demonstrated that the scrolls pre-date Mormonism? If that hasn’t been done conclusively, who cares what the scrolls say? They can simply reflect ideas that Native Americans gleaned from Mormon missionaries.
See Ojibwa Pictography: The Origins of Writing and the Rise of Social Complexity by Joan M. Vastokas. Records associated with the Midewiwin emerged and developed post contact and flourished primarily in the 18th century. Disputing Mormonism claims of Hebrew connections, one cannot overlook the use of pictography on birchbark among Siberian peoples and the widespread practice throughout the circumpolar zone.
@@Ralph419 That answer is nonresponsive. Are those particular scrolls older than 1830? If so, can the ideas be traced to scrolls that predate 1830? If the answer to both questions is no, how are these scrolls proof of Mormon doctrine? If the answers are yes, show me that evidence first.
@@kenpostudent702 David's secrecy prevents examination of any particular scroll he might have possession of, so unable to determine if it is older than 1830. The Mormonism ideas David Taylor associates with scrolls are his alone and do not reflect traditional Native interpretations.
Birch bark scrolls are so cool and fascinating in their own right. Mormons are so primed and desperate to find proofs (except chiasmus and NHM) that they can invent them out of cloud shapes at this point.
????Raised in PA have Native American roots. Have heard birch tree writings years ago. Am 76. Still do not recall mention of good ol hickbilly joe smith jr.
yt recommended a video to me about this. I felt so sad to see how happy this birch bark preservation-of-the-scrolls story made people that for once I behaved myself and couldn't push back much. We all believe ridiculous things. After all, I think I have a possibility to win a lottery, even though I have a sufficient grasp of odds to let that idea go. I just don't want to. We're all silly.
RFM, my grandfather grew up with the Midews in Susanville California through the 1920s and 1930s. He said they had many stories similar in the BoM and Mormonism. One example is the three days of darkness.
So, when Chief Midegah says his people have lived on the American continent unbroken since the flood, does that mean his people come from a different boat than Noah's?
Thank you for all the work you did to distill the information from many sources. You saved me from watching the Chief on Psych Radio. Also for your cultural reference to my countryman Gordon Lightfoot
It's amazing! They said the first humans are from North America! It couldn’t possibly be that this is their native land... I mean, it's not as if the first people in Norse mythology, Ask and Embla, are from Scandinavia; the first people in Greek mythology, aepimetheus and Pandora, are from the Greece; that the first land created in Japanese mythology, created by Izanagi and Izanami, was the islands of Japan; the first people according to Israelites, Adam and Eve, were from the Middle-East; and on and on.
Archeology suggests the Rift Valley of Africa. The Finnish Kalevala has the most poetic creation story. The LDS Adam-ondi-Ahman in Missouri could be assisted by Star Fleet transporter technology.
Since you aren't aware in September 14 all Midew lodge keepers will be in he mikmak nation with elders from central and south america whereby all scrolls are being organised. You have no idea how impactful all these comments, from LDS, have removed all desire to attempt to respond to LDS request for us to validate. Why should we. It's people like you who will be lucky they can hide behind keyboards instead of presenting their name, ward and bishop, Because you are a coward and again, it is those like you who have removed all good will In this process.
Stoooopid Ralph. Cultural appropriation is what you’re doing right here….but way worse. You’re taking an indigenous tribes ancient relics and trodding them under your feet. You should be ashamed of yourself. Do some research, google the bitch bark scrolls & then delete your account.
I admire your restraint in assuming that most or all of his factual claims were true and only the interpretation touching mormonism were open to question. This must be your legal training holding firm, because I doubt I could have gone through all this without acknowledging that the most likely conclusion is that he is simply a fraud (pious or otherwise) in the finest tradition of Joe Smith.
The echos to Joseph Smith are very prevalent. And we have in the faithful mormons giving the Chief ear today likeness to Martin Harris, Whitmer and the like. One can see how the easily gullible were misled in Joseph's day and the faithful mormons in these videos being duped today. "I was told he can't show me the plates...er...scrolls or I can't talk about part of the plates...er... scrolls"
Look forward to listening to this guy - This guy sounds like he thinks he was conquered by something other than the best civilization to be conquered by ever by a lot, obviously.
Book of Mormon Part Deux. Starring Chief Midegah as Joseph Smith. Sealed Birch Bark Scrolls as a New Testament of Jesus Christ (minus the sealed portions of course). Coming Soon!
![Chief Midegah and the Legend of the Lost Scrolls! [Radio Free Mormon 354]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
