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Though I have said it in previous responses, Mr. Vogel's assertion that we dismiss the Spalding-Rigdon theory on the basis that it's a "conspiracy theory" involves his conflation of actual conspiracy with WILDLY ELABORATE conspiracies. People conspire. And they do so not only to get away with something, but also in an attempt to conceal the very conspiracy in question. (Again, it's a legal term.) Dismissing the theory in question on the grounds that it's a "conspiracy" MISSES THE POINT! A friend and I can conspire to rip off the place we work, doing so to conceal that we're the ones who did the ripping-off. The notion that the Spalding-Rigdon theory presumes that the co-president of this new religion might well have been "in on the con" is, on it's face, as reasonable a speculation as to presume that he was a believing dupe. PARTICULARLY in light of the fact that he, along with Joseph, had "revelations" in concocting post-BOM scriptures! To conflate this sort of conspiracy with "all the scientists have conspired to get us to believe the moon landing was fake," or that "the whole of the medical community has an agenda to get us to take a vaccine (perhaps to insert tracking devices in us)" is simply . . . . . . NOT THE SAME THING! Dan Vogel cannot credibly dismiss out of hand that Rigdon, (or Cowdrey, or Whitmer for that matter) might have worked in conjunction with Joseph to promote an agenda that served them all! Keep the following in mind: Rigdon's ballistic response to the Spalding claim was wildly over the top! And it included absurd arguments (e.g., that Hurlbut wasn't a real doctor--as if the fact that it was his first name meant anything!). (And Cowdrey and Whitmer BOTH had the identical vision at the same time! Which was more likely? That they both whipped themselves into a state of believe sufficient to create SIMULTANEOUS DELUSIONS or that they lied about it to deceive the man Joseph Smith wanted to con out of his money?)
Where is the book.of mormon in america?? So many theories..how come there isnt one prophet past or present who knows?? All left to silly apologists to fight over....also the hill cumorah was stated to be the last big battle site..joseph smith swore to it as did others..now we are told to get over it..its just a distraction...sad..😢
The fact that she was his babysitter makes me believe it is NO DOUBT that if (when) he leaves her he will undoubtedly speak about grooming. I’m sure she BEEN had her eye on him and they probably started talking way before he was 16. Yall don’t have enough energy for her and it’s sad, because no matter even if we just got by him being 17 and her being 23 is wild. She is disgusting plain and simple and her family supporting her BS following around a 17-18 is equally disgusting.
The multiple accounts of the first vision only prove 1 thing to me. That Joseph made this up. It's fake and a fraud. This event was supposed to be the crowing jewel that Magnus Opus of the history of humanity. Joseph was the very few who got the privilege to see god and yet the details are sketchy and vague and contradicts. If I talked with god face to face I would write every detail down as soon as possible not 10-18 years later. Mormonism is a fraud
The fact that she was his babysitter makes me believe it is NO DOUBT that if (when) he leaves her he will undoubtedly speak about grooming. I’m sure she BEEN had her eye on him and they probably started talking way before he was 16. Yall don’t have enough energy for her and it’s sad, because no matter even if we just got by him being 17 and her being 23 is wild. She is disgusting plain and simple.
Salvation Through The Grace of God Alone is dangerous to the LDS Elders, as it negates the necessity of not only their lofty station, but the LDS Church in its entirety. Salvation Through God’s Grace Alone is a threat to every Christian church’s existence. Things like this are why I distinguish between religion and faith. Religion is organized, weaponized faith that exists only to sate the base desires and power fantasies of humanity. Faith is one’s personal relationship with their God.
The whole point is to show thar the chruch is not the true chruch. There is so much corruption that how can active mormons see this corruption and fraud and money hoarding and still call it the true chruch? That was the point thst was trying to get across to justin. The 100 billion dollar leak was another shelf breaker and was too much for me to call them prophets (among other things) the chruch is not true. Plain and simple.
I know Satan very well as I have seen much evil perpetrated in my life some by supposed Christians. I met both Jimmy Swaggert and the Bakers. Truly evil people proclaiming the name of Christ and asking people to be saved. Just like you are out doing.
Mormons, do the "learn what religious syncretism is" challenge Great content once again RFM! I appreciate your tackling of this topic and it's been under covered in the exmo side of the blogernacle
There were mountain goats in the Americas, they are native to it. One of the Herbalism which is found in the Book of Mormon are list containing 7 items. In 1 Nephi 18 there is a list of animals. Cow, ox, ass, horse, goat and wild goat and all manner of wild animals. This is the only time ox is used as in them seeing an ox, other than that it's used in allegory. The same is true with cows and asses, no one seems to own an ass or milks a cow. There seems to be a classification going on. Twice there is this line, "...and flocks of herds, and flocks of all manner of cattle of every kind..." That's an odd thing to say...? I think we use the term bovine. Bison, antelope, sheep and goats are all bovine and animals they as Hebrews could eat.
The kidnapping and threat to kill makes no sense. It sounds like the guy who is trying to impress a girl and be a hero, so he hires someone to play a bad guy…lots of actors in the church.
To be clear, inclusion in the gospel is not the same as it is used by our communist comrades who use the same term in diversity, equity, and inclusion. What Oaks and Ballard are teaching has been taught in the scripturess and by the brethren for decades. It is nothing new. The fact that Ballard and other brethren use those same buzzwords without distinguishing how they are implemented in society vs. the gospel is very frustrating.
If Nelson saw her in the crowd wearing a hat…wouldn’t he remember what kind of hat, or how it looks? Usually when someone point out a detail like that, there is always an extra detail in it. It’s never generically explained. Plus wouldn’t he recognize her from all the years he has been working next to her husband and going back and forth with the teaching of BoM? I feel like he wanted her for a long time and was waiting for her husband to be out of the picture, patiently waiting…or who knows, maybe there was already secret relations before he passed and they could collab to make it seem like it was “meant to be”
As a Ex-Mormon who grew up in this…I been loving your content and thorough information. Just got done listening to Mormon Stories episode you were on about this very topic. Mike said he got his info from this very episode (84). For a long time I didn’t think there was anyone out there who really could get in depth the way you guys do (Mormon stories, Nemo, RFM, LDS Discussions, cults to consciousness, Nuancehoe, etc) thank you 🙏
It really is incredible the glaring and huge holes in the book of Mormon on this side of the bubble but when you’re in the bubble, it’s just fascinating that none of this stuff is obvious. Anyway, great great content.💜
Totally agree with you. Curious if you have an opinion on the best way to reach Mormons inside the bubble? It would be nice to see the false gospel in Mormonism disappear, for their sake not mine or ours.
Absolutely 100% love this. Thank you so much for all the time effort and energy that was put into this. And keep it under an hour so well thought out so concise so well organized thank you thank you.💜💜🤗🤗
Too bad the well intentioned Mormon healthy caucasian gene pool is dispositioning their souls to a false theology based on historical fantasy. What a waste. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.’
How come most religions are stuck following the old Hebrew, Moses commandments, given to the jews not the Gentiles? The New Covenant, Paul's gospel of the ressurected Christ is for both Jew and Gentile. Yet Mormans and Baptist are stuck in the Old Jewish Testament Law which Christ made obsolete. There is none perfect, No not one. Roman's 3: 10--12; Hebrews 8:13. Come out of the desert following Moses, he'll never save your souls. And neither will paying tithing to a box church.
1:20:51 Not always in the past have they supported the Republicans. The very inception of the GOP was openly founded on ending polygamy and slavery. Research the two founding pillars of the GOP.
44:45 The entire cases against Ballard are lacking in evidentiary support. The women all voluntarily participated in the operations with Ballard. All consenting adults had the opportunity to walk away from it! I know this story is RFM’s pet project. Did Ballard scam money from people? Yes likely however it doesn’t seem to be the concern for RFM nor anyone else reporting on the story.
hahaha scholars are still not sure when Isaiah was written... Elephants were mentioned in the Book of Mormon when there were Mamoths i.e. elephants in the Americas. Best do more research....Evidence of horses have been founfd in North America.. Best keep up with currant research....cattle as in eurpean cattle is not mentioned in the book of Mormon.. Barley is found in the Americas just not the European type. effigies of chariots have been found in the Anericas especially in Mexico. Windows were had by the Romans... this person as no Idea what they are talking about. We have found melted sand /glass in archelogical stes ndicating the Ancient indians had glass. She also lied about metals.. archelogists have found thousands of copper swords shields head pales knives etc. they are found among the Hopewell and Adena cultures. the ancient people of America used to pound metorites of steel and iron. She lied again...archelogists have found copper cimiters in the Hopewell mounds....she lied again. We had numerous evidence that there were written records amoung the Native Americas, including codexes. The paleo hebrew alpha bet is reformed Egyptian. she lied again. we know that the ancient Jews believe a messiah would be born and he would be a Yeshua i.e. Jesus. There a mountain of evidence that, Egyptian, Libian, Roman, Phonecian , Welsh, Hbrew sailors came to North America. Best study up lady. all her examples are bogus.... this was a nothing burger,,,,,,,
Notice on every one of your issues you’ve taken the Mormon apologist explanation as true when the rest of the scientific world disagrees 1 Example, for instance, is barley. Both the nephites and the Jaredites came to the Americas with seeds and when they got here, those seeds turned into plants that flourished. Surely people from the old world bringing seeds brought barley and yet you self admit it’s not the right kind. In fact, none of the old world crops show up in the Americas, in spite of the fact that both parties claim they brought old crops with them planted them and they flourished
This post is the most hilarious, triggered, and almost incoherent Mormon response ever. He typed so fast in anger that everything is misspelled. Slow down bub, take in the sights and sounds, smell the roses of truth! 😂
@@MormonDiscussion hahaha you are a liar......you make stuff up then claim scientists support you? Prove it. There is a local grass that is barley like all over the US.. We use it today for horses and cattle. Tell us about Reformed Egyptian. Tell us about proto Hebrew writing... deny that it comes from reforming Egyptian hieroglyphics. Deny it is the origin of our alphabet... Tell us how native americans etched Elephants on rocks no earlier than 2500 years ago if there was none around.....tell us when the last Mastadons or mamoths died out in the Americas.. real scientists are no longer sure. Tell us about the copper culture of the Hopewell Mound builders. Deny that archeologists have found thousands of items including metal swords, knives, head plates shields etc. etc etc. Your claims have been dismissed long ago. Anytime you have the guts to stand in public and make your bogus claims so we can expose your ignorance let me know.
The filipowski story is basically gossip at this point. To spend more than 2 minutes on it is a waste of time at this point since we don’t actually know anything. Your standards are usually much higher.
Loved the commentary. While it’s easy to hope for the good guys to win and bad guys to lose, the strategy needs to have good legal groundwork, not just mudslinging.
Something similar happened with one of my sons. An older, rather young looking party girl got her claws into him and tried mightily between him and his family. He finally after too many years got rid of her.
I totally agree! A nonsense story about a wealthy person influencing another wealthy person’s decisions. Both are consenting adults! Waste of time story!
Watching how the apologists creatively change definitions, expand locations and drop past explanations is truly awesome. The mental gymnastics is usually as impressive as it is infuriating.
And you can see from some of the comments that people buy it. Because mormon apologists give the answers people discard the entire rest of the science community and except that the problem has been solved by mormon apologists
I would store the birch bark scrolls in a stone box and place it next to the steel scimitar of General Zelph and the Grail of Manitou. RFM ignored the most obvious thing about the scroll writing: It is Reformed Egyptian.
Once it gets started, it is hard to stop humming that Edmund Fitzgerald song. All I know is that the lake does not give up its dead when the winds of November come early.
