Chinese Diesel Air Heaters Part 3 - Fuel Consumption 

Thanks for the feedback Daniel. There a few more to come, dealing with different aspects. John

@@johnmck1147 I agree with Daniel!! Good info, clear acknowledgment, thank you John McK 47

@Ryan Oi mate the amount I’m not gonna be RU-vid spelling police. Though I can understand what you’re saying or meaning. I reckon you should sleep mate just my opinion mate & yeah nice spot about the worlds media and you saying that has just proven that MSM + the internet is controlled to a certain degree

Hi Ryan, thank you for your feedback. I hope the videos are of some help to you. JMcK

Thanks for the feedback Michael. JMcK

Thanks for that feedback Danny. So you are happy with the little heater? How well insulated is your shed? You are actually getting those results from a 5 kw heater, as the so called 8 kw heater is actually a rebranded 5 kw heater. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 Couldn't be happier. Electrical power is $$$ where I live. I always kept the minimum heat in my wood shop in the winter. Not anymore. Last night, it actually went as low as -22C and the wood shop, with 2x4 walls, R15 value, just getting the heat from the small hallway with an opening of maybe 2 feet by 48 inches tall and it was 7.5C. The metal shop was warmer at one end, 10C and closer to the garage door, it was 8C. It took just a bit more fuel last night. It went from a typical 1/4 tank to well over 1/3 to maybe even 1/2 tank. I've had it working non stop since January 5th. I stopped it once so I could move it too it's permanent destination for maybe 30 minutes. Fired right back up and still going on strong. 2 questions: 1. How many times should it be cleaned out? Will it send me a code telling me that XX has to be changed/cleaned or what not? 2. When you say it is a 5KW, how can we get a REAL 8KW or is it just a marketing smoke and mirrors tactic? Regardless, I think it is a neat little rig and I am just starting to Frankenstein the whole thing. I will machine the case (like a good backyard mechanic that worked as one in the Army!) so I can wrap a copper tubing around it and help me heat my hot water accumulator. I mean if Soft Tub SPA are heated with the same principal, surely the heat coming out of the heater is greater than the motor casing for the SPA. This will be done shortly after the waste oil burner and building a cab for my tractor. Time is scarce so I have to share it at the right time according to priorities. They are calling for a snowstorm tomorrow and I don't have a snow plow for my tractor. The one i had is way too short. So I am extending it to make it the proper one to use. If it wasn't for the heater, there is NO way in hell that I would have done it in the yard like I used to. Too many times have I frozen my body. Not getting any younger so have to take care of myself. And I have to do it thriftily, on a Veteran pension. So again, when I do make that mod, I will make sure I tell you. If I can't recall which video I had responded (now,) I will pick one of the 16 you have and it will still be relevant. ☺ Happy New Year, by the way! LOL

Dany F , Hi Danny, Thanks for the detailed feedback. Happy New Year back to you. If installed correctly, run on good fuel, and operated correctly you can go a long time without a carbon clean out. I have not cleaned out the boat heater in nearly 12 years. Give it a full heat run occasionally, and run a kerro mix through at season end. You will know when it is time to clean. It will be hard to start, and it will smoke. To my knowledge there are no 8 kw Chinese heaters. It would need to be significantly larger. The Germans do make a genuine one and it is much larger than their D4 heater. Good for you running a copper coil. You can also run one around the exhaust. One Chinese manufacturer now makes a water and air heater. I am trying to get one to test. Cheers. JMcK

Your welcome Mike. JMcK

Your welcome Chris. JMcK

Are you certain that any one using standard kerosene full time in a diesel air heater of this design will seriously damage their fuel pump in just one heating season? You have tested this theory many times and it is in fact 100% accurate?

Hi Sebastian, The correct dose is .02 ml per pulse. (As I state in the video) Running these heaters at a high setting of 5 Hz, the fuel consumption is approx 360 ml/hr, or approx 8.5 ltr/day of continuous running. (At a high setting) If your heater used .2 ml/ pulse, at a rate of 5 Hz it would use approx 3.6 ltrs per hour, or over 86 litres per day. I don't think a little heater that used 86 litres of diesel per day could be considered economical or viable. JMcK

Thanks for the positive feedback Angus

Hi BA, yes, interesting claims. These heaters are very close to exact copies of the German Eberspacher D4 heater. Eberspacher lists their output as 4 Kw. I can accept 5 Kw, but not 8 Kw. Have you seen my video on the 8Kw heater?...JMcK

@@johnmck1147 I have looked at several of your videos, but i’m not sure if it was the 8kw. The black one, was it the 8kw?

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GCHs62i2qbw.html

Thanks Marko, hope you found the videos helpful. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 more than that - you gave me the courage to finish my heater installation today in my van - i planned to get the diesel from the cars main tank, but I didnt have the proper extractor for it.. So the heater was installed, but not connected for half a year now. Today i did it with the 10l tank thats included and it worked great, the heater heats now an next week Im gonna be on tour again 👍 keep up the great work!

👍 JMcK

Hi E, I mostly run very much like you. Using recirculated air. I find at 5.5 Hz, I can overheat the heater. But every install, and environment condition is different. Cheers, JMcK

Hi Charlie, it will work upside down for a while. The pump must be facing with the outlet upwards to allow the small cavitation bubbles to escape. Sorry for delay, I missed your query. JMcK

Your welcome. Glad you liked it.

Hi Andre, The ECU will recognise when out of fuel, and shut the heater down without any overheat issues. However, the fuel pump can run dry for some minutes, as if pushes fuel along the line with air pressure. Excessive running of a dry pump can cause pump wear. Cheers JMcK

Hi Stephen, First, thank you for the positive feedback. Now you do not give enough detail on why it won't start. Do you get an error code? Do you hear the pump ticking? Is the glow plug working? Check with a clamp meter, should go from about a 1 amp draw to 8 to 10 amps as glow plug turns on. There are on line suppliers for ECB, and in the past all the Chinese heaters copied same protocol so ECB's and controllers matched. Nowadays this is not the case so you need a supplier who sells both and you buy the pair. But you can still have issues re fan speed sensor. Anyway, if the glow plug works and you hear the pump ticking, I would suspect your issue is carbon buildup in heater atomisation screens in burner and blockage in small air start hole and glow plug screen. ECB issues are very rare. I have videos on these issues above. I suggest you check for carbon build up issues first. If you still have issues, It may be better to buy a new heater, they are cheap, and use the old one for spare parts. Cheers, JMcK

Thanks for the feedback rev9. JMcK

Hi PD, The pump needs to be mounted in an upwards orientation to allow the little cavitation bubbles an easy escape. Generally anything over 15 deg inclined upwards is ok, but better to have a angle of 45 deg and upwards is better. JMcK

Not quite sure about this without seeing your set up. But some suggestions for you. 1. Are you running correct voltage? This can be both over voltage. Eg running a 24 V system and you have a 12V heater. Or having low voltage to the glow plug due to thin power wire to heater. 2. You have a controller issue and the glow plug is left on too long. 3. Perhaps another controller issue, and your glow plugs were actually ok. Suggest you connect a 12V supply and see if the glow plugs heat up to red heat. I would be interested to know if you find out the issue. JMcK

Yes, just protect heater from the weather. JMcK

Thanks Magnus, pleased you found it helpful. JMcK

Hi Chuck, they are little cavitation bubbles, cause no harm and are quite normal. They are very similar to cavitation bubbles caused by boat propellors. I also think they help in the Fuel atomisation process as the fuel is forced through the atomisation screens in the burner chamber. If your fuel system is not designed right, or you have the wrong fuel hose the little bubbles can come together and form one big bubble, which will cause you issues. JMcK

Hi RA, the diesel has enough lubricant for the pump. Two stroke oil is ok in very small amounts but it tends to produce carbon deposits requiring more maintenance. JMcK

Hi Denis. I always put a tap in the fuel line and just shut the tap when not using the heater. If using a separate fuel tank I would tend to let it run down at season end so you could add a bit of fresh diesel next season, but these heaters are not high performance engines and would not be bothered by a bit of fuel degradation. In 12 odd years of heater use on the sailing boat in the Med, I just turn off the fuel tap after using the heater, and next year turn it back on when using the heater. We once went two years without using the heater, turned the fuel tap on and it fired up as normal. Cheers, JMcK

Hi David, Thanks for the positive feedback. Currently these Chinese Diesel do not have any altitude compensation add on that I am aware of. However you should get reasonable performance at high altitude by using a diesel/kerro mix, say 10:90 or 20:80 diesel:kerro. The big issue is because of the lower oxygen levels at altitude, the heater burns rich and creates excessive amounts soot and carbon in the burner chamber. Kerosene burns cleaner and helps with the soot issue, and kerro also helps with the gelling issue of diesel at low temperature. Cheers. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 Thank you John. It would really be a game changer if there were a way to lean out the mixture, even if the adjustment were crude

👍

Pleased you enjoyed the video Fabio. JMcK

You could have issues here. 8.3 amps output is too low as these heaters can draw up to 10 amps on initial start up for a minute or so. Once lit, they only draw about 1 amp for general use. JMcK

Ok many thanks for your knowledge and taking the time to reply keep up the fantastic work

I think it is the bearings about to seize. 🤪 Aust Butcher Birds and Aus Magpie. JMcK

Hi F397 Sorry for the delay, but I have had my home destroyed by the recent Qld (Australia) and had no internet access. Now only brief access. I think they are wrong. All Chinese copy diesel air heaters that I know of in the output range from 2 Kw to 8 KW have fuel pumps with a .02 ml dose. I buy my heaters off eBay. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 hey, im so sorry for what happend to you and above all to your house...im so sorry..thank you for the response tho..hope everything is fine!

All the Chinese Heaters I have seen, 2Kw, 5Kw and8Kw, use the same fuel pump with the same output of .02ml per dose. JMcK

That should say: is it possible….

Hi PD, I have resisted this as changing the factory settings can cause lots of issues if you get it wrong. The factory settings are best for most operational conditions except high altitude. If you are an enthusiast, by all means experiment, but if not, it is better to leave this alone. Remember there is no reset button back to factory settings if you mess up. Regards. JMcK

Your welcome RP. JMcK

Thanks for the feedback Mr R. However, be aware 1Hz is in the area where the burn is so low you risk a flame out. You are also at a level of minimum burn where there is a risk of excessive carbon buildup. Cheers. JMcK

Thanks for the feedback Nicholas. JMcK

Thanks for the detailed feedback Dieter. JMcK

Thanks, I will try to get most of the air out of the filter and see if any new air gets inside. Currently about 40% of the filter is filled with air. The flow direction is marked on the filter and it is installed that way.

Hi Ratgreen, On the delivery side, if longer than 500 mm or so, you should use small bore hard nylon tubing for the delivery fuel line. Suggest you watch number 11 in this series. That will explain in more detail. Regards, JMcK

Hi MILF, these heaters require about 8 to 10 amps for well less than a minute to start, and about 1 to 2 amps on average to run. I talk more about this in motorhome video. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 thanks heaps john, you blood is worth bottling🤝

Pleased to be of some help. JMcK

Hi Peter, If you watch the videos you will see that the pump causes cavitation bubbles and the pump must be mounted facing upwards so the bubbles can escape. Any angle over 15 degrees is ok. 45 degrees is a good angle. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 Thanks mate i saw that i jumped the gun abit with my question thanks again you doing a great job mate

@@johnmck1147 can you run with the fuel tank and fuel pump higher than the heater so it siphens down to the pump from the tank

peter krych Gold & Hunting Yes Peter, you can have the tank higher than the pump, up to about 1 meter without issues, but it is good practice to install a shut off tap in the fuel line and close the tap when not using the heater as sometimes the weight of the fuel can leak past the pump seals causing issues on next start up. JMcK

Hi Alex, All depends on controller. Most controllers generally supplied with these Chinese heaters keep heater going, and just ramp up or slow down to maintain the set temperature. JMcK

Hi Stephane, The fuel pump needs to be tilted upwards to allow the little cavitation bubbles to escape. Anywhere from about 30 deg to vertical is ok. Yes the 15 ltr fuel tank will last about 45 to 50 hours at those settings. Cheers. JMcK

Yes, you need one that puts out a bit more than about 10 amps. A 15 amp power supply is good. These heaters only consume around one amp in normal use but require around 8 to 10 amps for the glow plug to start the heater. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 my 20 amp will do then

👍

Hi Ian, if a controller has a thermistor it will generally have a small hole for temperature sensing. Generally you can have the fuel tank up to about 1 meter above the pump without causing issues. The fuel pump is activated by an electro magnet, but the piston returns to its normal position by small springs. Too much fuel head pressure not only can cause leakage, but also improper operation as the pump. JMcK

👍

No. The ECU needs a way to control an exact amount of fuel being delivered at a particular heat setting and matches this fuel dose to a set fan speed to get a correct fuel air mix. A simple dosing pump is a simple way for the ECU to control the fuel delivery. JMcK

Hi Ceci, You will need to check the output of your pump. Easy to do manually, if not stamped on case. 5Kw heaters normally come with pump outputs of .02 ml or .022 ml per stroke. You may have a pump with an output of .03 ml per stroke. Is it a problem? As with everything, heat output is directly related to fuel burnt. If you have a higher output pump you get the same heat output at a lower setting. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 tx

@@johnmck1147 I suspect instead that the heater doesn't really go to 0.8hz but to 1hz, 0.022x1x60x60=79.2. I'll check my pump sooner or later. Thanks for your attention. PS Sorry for my bad english I use gtranslate

👍

Wow! Phyl. Thank you for your positive comments. JMcK

👍

Hi Fernando, I am unaware of where you live and I am unaware of the differences between your diesel grades. However some thoughts. You can use almost anything for a fuel tank. These heaters will burn almost anything ...... For a while The “oiler” the fuel the greater the carbon deposits produced, and the more frequent the units require service. The “cleaner” the fuel the better the heaters operate, and the less service. In very cold conditions or elevated environments a high kerro/diesel mix (90/10) gives good results with lowered maintenance. JMcK

Your welcome Patrick. JMcK

Pleased you found them helpful. JMcK

Hi Ross, set up as you describe these heaters will work. They will even work upside down......For a while. Just as your motorcar will still work if you do an oil service and forget to add new oil. The engine will still start and run......for a while. JMcK

Thanks Les. JMcK

Hi CP, If you are running off a mains supply I guess you would need to do a risk benefit study. Eg, how often do you have a power outage? If very rare, and generally the worst outcome is a fried ECB, why bother. If not uncommon, and you go for a battery back up in parallel, why not just run the heater straight off a small battery permanently connected to a small battery charger. If the power goes off and the battery gets no charge, the heater will go through its shut down cycle, when the battery voltage drops down towards 11 volts. Cheers. JMcK

Hi Alabama. It is my personal preference to run a 5kw slower rather than a 2 kw faster. Other people may disagree with me. When you run these heaters fast they make a lot of noise, and have more wear and tare on their moving parts. A real 2kw heater is much smaller than a 5 kw heater so has a smaller heat exchanger and smaller fan and smaller outlet. However both heaters use the same fuel pump and dosing rate. Running at a dose of 2 Hz puts exactly the same amount of fuel in both heaters but the 5 kw heater has more heat exchange surface area and hence generates more hot cabin air for the same fuel burn. You can pause the video and look at my test results. You will be getting generally less than 2kw output at 2Hz. JMcK

Hi Kevin The little cavitation bubbles are normal and if you use hard, narrow bore nylon tube on the delivery side of the pump the little bubbles travel to the heater and help with atomisation of the diesel. If you use soft large bore delivery fuel hose and you have bends in it the little bubbles will form a large bubble (like decompression sickness in a diver) and cause heater operation issues. Cheers. JMcK

They never turn off, just slow down.

Hi FS, To my knowledge, heating oil in the UK has a level of sulphur high enough to give lubrication to the pump and can be a direct substitute for diesel. If you use the much “purer” lighting kerosene you need to add 10% diesel to it to provide lubrication for the pump. Have you seen the video on kerosene.? JMcK

@@johnmck1147 I thank you 👍🏻

I'm from the UK, so I can clarify this. Here, there are two grades of Kerosene, C1 is what you get from B&Q, Homebase or garden centres for greenhouse heaters, Tilley Lamps and oil lamps. That will wreck your fuel pump unless you add oil at the ratio of 1:5,000. C 2 Kerosene is sold for home heating from a heating oil supplier and has a higher sulphur content which is the same as red diesel or DERV. You can safely use heating Kerosene in your CDH without adding anything to it. Hope this helps.

@@neilfoster814 thanks 👍🏻

Correct Dan, then you have to average, just the same by measuring the time to use a tank of fuel. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 thanks, just got 1 of these for under $100 very pleased with it.

This heater was a 5 Kw heater. The principle to all heaters with a dosing pump. JMcK

Hi Klaus, You can change the pump settings and fan speeds in the locked settings of the heater ECU. The unlock password is easily searched for on the internet. However I have deliberately not released the unlock codes that I know as the average person can get into a whole lot of trouble messing with the settings, and there is no factory reset button to hit when things go wrong. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 Thank you !!! ;-)

Hi Ish, thanks for the feedback. By assembled do you mean the units in a metal case with an integrated fuel tank? If so read the description carefully. I know a person who bought one of those and did not read the description carefully and all she got was an external metal case. No heater or fuel tank inside. I will be doing a review on those at a later date. Yes, there are many sellers, look for one with a local warehouse if possible, and one that takes returns. I am not sure that the reviews mean too much these days. Better to have a recommendation from a buyer in your local area. Good luck. J

Hi Jonathan, there is no way I know of to adjust a Chinese diesel heater for altitude. You can however buy a genuine Eberspacher heater with altitude compensation. As, at altitude these heaters burn rich and creat carbon, a partial solution could be a high 80:20 or 90:10 kerro diesel mix. Sorry I can't be of more help. JMcK

A number of the Chinese suppliers advised me to use the analog controller with my 2KW version, so I did. I have used it at 7500' for a few days at a time with no apparent issues. I will regularly run Kero through the system as well when I return home from a trip. I also have found that the higher cetane diesel works better. I can either buy it for ten cents per litre more at the pump, or put cetane boost into the regular diesel.

Hi Mel, You can wrap it in exhaust wrap available on line or from auto stores, but I personally would put a metal tube in the wall first and run the wrapped exhaust tube through that tube. (Belt and braces approach). JMcK

Hi Ian, how you operate the heater is a personal thing, and I suggest you try the different methods. If you go for a temperature setting the heater will roar away at max speed to try and reach the set temperature, then it will scale back to maintain the set temperature. If it is able, and the area to heat is achievable for the heater. This method can work well where you run the heater most of the time and your set temperature has been reached. I generally prefer to use the manual setting to lessen the noise. I will set a mid range pulse rate, 3 or 4 Hz, and let the accommodation area heat up more slowly. I generally, but not always, choose to go slower. Like in a motor car, you can choose to race off to a destination at full speed and max RPM (provided no speed restrictions) with lots of noise and machinery wear to be at your destination in the shortest possible time. Or you can take your time, go slower with less wear and tare. The total fuel consumption will be about the same. JMcK

Thanks John advice much appreciated.

Your welcome Stoner. JMcK

Hi Keeb, If you are in a very cold environment you will most probably be buying winter diesel to help with the gel issues. But with the fuel tank inside the van and not in the cold outside environment, gel issues are greatly lessened. Without knowing more I don't think you will have any issues. If concerned you could mix in a bit of kerro in the diesel. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 thanks. You're an outstanding chap!

Hi Greg, I talk more about battery usage in an upcoming video I have done on a motorhome install. Hope to publish end of July. If you have a 100 AH lead battery you can pull out 50AH (only half) before the battery is flat. You can never get a full 100 AH out of a lead battery in everyday use. At a mid setting the heater will draw say around 1.2 amps running the fan, fuel pump, and ECU, so if you run the heater for 10 hours a night you will pull around 12 AH out of your battery. You have 50 AH available if the battery is fully charged. In actual practice, unless it is very cold you will probably run the heater for a few hours at night and then another few hours in the morning. If it is very cold and you run the heater continuously you will use around 25AH to 50AH per day Cheers, JMcK

John McK 47 hi John, that’s good to hear. I’ll look forward to that video. I’m now thinking of installing a 2nd 100ah battery in parallel with the original.

Hi Stephen, I have come across two controllers where the screen LED fails and you can't see the letters, but the controller still works. Did you wait for the start cycle? Also it is easy for me to check the controller as I have around six spare ones and I can easy swap in a new one. I try to buy heaters that use standard protocol and those heaters that have controllers with triangular controller plugs generally use standard protocol. Cheers. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 thank you John that is exactly what is happening, no visuals. I have not waited for any cycles due to this problem, I have jumped straight to a conclusion of broken. I will give that a go and report back. Cheers

Hi Phil, Yes, the dose rate is the same, and yes the temperature is controlled by Hz. Both units operate around the same temperature, but the 5 KW has a larger heat exchanger, and hence for the same operating temperature it can provide a greater volume of heated air. JMcK

Not Quiet sure what you mean here Kevin. Can you be more precise please? JMcK

Hi Mr V We actually do buy diesel in litres in Australia. But when talking about small quantities we, (well me anyway) prefer to use smaller units when dealing with smaller volumes. I Australia we also use decimal currency, dollars, but when using smaller quantities we switch to smaller units. Eg I think it more simple to say something costs 58 cents to buy, rather than it costs decimal 58 of a dollar to buy. We also use kilometres "Down Under" as a measure of distance. Here again most Aussies (perhaps not all) drop down to smaller units for smaller distances. We say things like "The next town is 10 kilometres away" but drop back to smaller measure for smaller distances, eg "You should remain 2 meters apart for social distance during pandemic" not "You should remain decimal zero, zero, two kilometres, apart for social distancing" Sorry. JMcK

I'll help you, 144ml is 0.144 liters.

You want to get a small radiator and water pump. It will blow hot air over the radiator and the pump will cycle coolant through the entire vehicle system. It will keep the coolant and the cab nice and warm.

Hi Jeff, the normal fuel range setting of most controllers seems to be 1.6 Hz to 5.5 Hz. I can override mine and go to 6 Hz max setting, but I can't run a heater long at that setting as it overheats and shuts down. Remember it is summer here with a high ambient temperature. Results would be totally different in winter and you could run at a max setting with less issues. Provided the overheat sensor is working properly the heater will shut down in a controlled manner when it overheats. I plan to do a video at some time in the future of me deliberately overheating one of these heaters to show the controlled shutdown procedure. The ECU does it very well. The real danger is cutting power (accidentally or deliberate) to a heater so it can not go through its shutdown cycle. A flat battery will also shut down a heater with consequences. The ECU shut down procedure involves turning on the glow plug to burn off any unburnt fuel. The current draw is 8 to 10 amps (all glow plugs vary) and a flat battery not only will not provide the required amps but the extra low voltage will not "glow" the plug. J

Thanks John not just mine i'll keep it on P5.4 safe looking forward to the overheat video thanks again. Jeff@@johnmck1147

She will love you for it when she stays warm. JMcK

@@johnmck1147 Well... that is the long-term plan Second plan is to test this and I have an elderly lady down the road whose gas bill has jumped from €230/month to €1240/month. She's in tears. I want to properly install one of these to heat up her living room in the evenings. So these things have been around since the 1930's and these affordable Chinese ones seem to work if understood correctly. I think i saw Spare parts available somewhere. You're videos are INVALUABLE. Really!

Hi Peter, These heaters are cheap buy and cheap to run. I installed one in my daughters bedroom some years ago with great success. She lives on a farm, off grid with no services. Good for you to look after your neighbour. JMcK