UPDATE: I was able to make the speaker anatomy video! I got an awesome cutaway subwoofer that shows all the inside components, check out the video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XMTjFxpRADI.html
CarAudioFabrication I'm trying to find replacementnwoofers for some home stereo speakers I built back in the 80's. They are a 12" 3 way design with 1.4 cu ft sealed enclosures. The original drivers worked very well after stuffing the boxes with fiberglass. F3 was around 30 hz. Not as low as I would like, but tight, accurate and warm. Can you recommend a replacement?
@CarAudioFabrication Hi, Is there a way to predict therse, Parameters? I want to build a costum subwoofer with parts from the lord of bass or from some other place where i can get speakerparts. And now I don't know how to chose the right parts for my needs. The subwoofer is supposed to be for my home theatre. It should be a 15inch sub in a sealed box that plays down to 15 hz at 125db+ Maybe you can help me. I love you videos!
This video explains in 14min what it took me many years to understand through independent research, modeling designs, & hands on fabrication. Well done man!
This guy breaks down very technical concepts into something I can grasp. Very well done! I understood some of the TS parameters, but this video helped fill in many gaps.
PLEASE make more technical videos like this Mark! I have been installing sound systems professionally for 5 years but still always learn something new when i watch your videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Diaphragm (I will not call it a cone in this case) acts as a piston, so when talking about effective cone area, it really doesn't matter if the diaphragm is actually a cone, or a flat circle, if the diameter is the same, Sd will be the same. Deeper cone will not move more air. Other than that, very well made and very educational. Just to add one more thing - the unit of the Bl is not only Tm (which doesn't tell you that much, it's magnetic force x length of the wire), but also N/A - which actually equals to Tm, but the unit tells you what force you generate by a specified current applied. So 10Tm = 10N/A tells you that 1Amp of current through the coil will generate 10N of force (~1kg)
I prefer to describe BL and the amount of magnetic flux (B) affecting the number of turns (L) within the motor. On a SGLC motor topology some of the voice coil will likely be outside of the fringe field.
Bravo Mark! I have been listening T/L speaker parameters explanations over the RU-vid channels, and you are the first one I encountered so far able to explain it in a simple lay man's term. Great job and thanks!
I'm learning a lot watching these videos and this was another great lesson - BUT - tho I now know what all these acronyms stand for and what they measure on the speaker - I still don't know how to use them. I wish you explicitly tied it back to how to use these when selecting a speaker. Hopefully you made a video on that too. I'll keep watching your stuff and hopefully you cover that. Thanks Marc!
Though I've learned most of the anatomy of a speaker by now, an in depth video would definitely be something that I could have used back when I first got into this stuff. I think it's a great idea.
For sure. Maybe you could elaborate on how the AC current moves the voice coils. It makes sense that the current makes them move, but I'm confused as to how the magnets affect the voice coil in conjunction with the current. That would be helpful if you could explain that
Thank you ... I have been trying to find a way to educate myself on how best to maximize my quality-$$$ ratio and your videos are JUST what the doctor ordered!
You’re speaking my language. Do you have an electrical engineering (or other engineering) background? Or is your knowledge of of the base physics governing all-things-audio from years in the industry?
I love when you do these sorts of videos! I constantly postpone redoing my system just because I'm expecting you to teach me something new next week! I do wish you had a handful of examples in the video though for using these parameters for selection (you're explanation examples like the spring were great). So for example, if we had limited space that will define the box size, can we use these details to select the sub for the box (and how so)? Or maybe you could have given some generic equipment/system specs and how those details and the Thiele parameters could be used to select your sub. Or maybe, here is the style of build you're going for (SQ for example) and how you'd best match your sub selection to that design using the Thiele parameters. Now I'm not even sure if my suggestions for examples are valid but I'm guessing you could have come up with something and worked in some plugs for Fosgate with an example or two (go go show sponsors!)
Man, where were you when I was trying to figure all this out 25 years ago? LOL Absolutely stellar video, Mark! This is going to help a lot of people get a head start in speaker design. :D
I *am* a new viewer, and I will definitely watch the crossover video! I'd have to watch this video a few times to *really get an understanding of it, but this video alone has taught me more than the other hour or two of similar videos I have watched. Thank you, well done!
Thanks for much needed info. The only two parameters I look at when gauging the quality of a speaker is the Fs and frequency response. According to my knowledge about free resonance is the Tacoma Bridge (LOL) -- It's the frequency at which the subwoofer is most efficient. Then there's frequency response: how low can the sub can go, range of the midbass and tweeters. Stats say 20-20K hertz for human hearing, but some some sub can go as low as 15-18 hertz and Mariah Carey can hit notes beyond 20K.
pretty sure it's pronounced th-eel after the Australian named Alberta Neville Thiele for whom the guidelines are named after. other than your french pronunciation I enjoyed the video.
8:43 You can compare BL motor strength directly ONLY if the drivers have the same RE, which is rarely the case. If not, then you must compare BL^2/RE (square of BL motor strength over RE), which accounts for difference in RE. This is especially important when the drivers have different nominal impedances (for instance 2 Ohm vs. 4 Ohm), because such drivers usually have very different RE.
Good job explaining all of that! When I first started my DIY speakers years ago, it took a long time before I had a working knowledge of the T/S parameters. I have LinearX's LEAP 5, (I replaced LMS with the Parts Express omni-mic) which will give you a real idea of the right box without ever building them. Too bad it works best on win X.P. so I might build another, lower form of computer to run that. LOL Look up linearX LEAP!! I'll look at your other vids! :-)
Amazing channel. Would love to see you do some testing on results of one these type subs in a passenger footwell area, ultimately to see if an ideal front stage could have results worth while for small coupes and convertibles. Keep the vids coming!
that would be interesting, except that in a small coupe or convertible/ There isn't going to be room for it up front. In some of them there is barely enough room in the trunk area. I have a MKIII Cabriolet, so I have first hand experience trying to get quality sound in a small convertible. Loud is no problem, but with the top down, and moving at highway speeds even decent sound is hard to maintain.
Great info and it was described in an easy to understand kinda way. Thank you. I believe the ts info should be the 1st thing any1 getting into car audio should learn. 😎👍👍
Mark, If you make a video explaining while showing the anatomy of a subwoofer, I will watch it and share it. Been into electronics from age 12, but am beginning to install car audio for others now. Please keep these videos coming; I've found nothing on RU-vid in my feeds more enriching.
so I've subscribe to both you and Doug's RU-vid channels. I learn a lot more from you, but you have to admit Doug is a character. I describe him as Bam Margera of car audio. and by the way it does look like a kitchen. you even had silverware in the drawer
Hey Mark. I have a question for you that may have a simple answer. If it’s increasingly more difficult to play tones below the FS rating, why do a lot of subs have box specs below this value?
Thank you very much! You had a lot of knowledge about speakers, thank for you your share, if you have time hoping you can help me count the air volume and how big the subwoofer should I make! I bought I from China! One more time thank you for sharing it helps me understand more what the manufacturer writes in the catalog about speakers and opens my Knowledge!
Would love to see u do a video on the anatomy of a subwoofer! I learn so much watching ur videos! Keep up the great work. I even shared this video to Facebook so some of my friends can learn as well. Always wanted to know what those numbers in my manual meant. Thank u!
So, basically, if you want high SPL, you want low compliance, if you want low frequency and "looser" bass, you use a high compliance, mid-wattage sub. Correct?
Great job Mark! Please make the video about the anatomy of a subwoofer and try to include the difference in underhung verses overhung voice coils. Thank you for your time.
Wow what an excellent, Informative, digestible, technical and educational video! Finally someone demystified Speaker technical specifications. Does anyone have this information in a written format ie. a manual guild or better still a chart. The information is a must before making a sub woofer purchase. Would be a great time saver not having to create one myself.
Excellent video man as usual. Thank you for explaining these terms and measures in precise detail. I details that I don't understand are actually new things to be learned, not feared. Any video you want to do, DO IT! Coz we all know it's gonna be loaded full of awesome tips, tricks and knowledge. Max Respect To C.A.F!
Awesome video as always Mark! It would have been great, though, to see a few more things like EBP and MFF. Also efficiency above all could use more explanation because low efficiency subs aren't bad, it depends on application. Hoffman's Iron law would be a great topic for a future video.
So in subwoofers, they use the label SPL in place of the sensitivity spec. on standard speakers/drivers? Odd choice, but good to know. As a side note: I don't know if your analogy was for sake of simplicity and keeping all of your analogies relative to each other, but if I'm not mistaken then the mass isn't about slowing down the voicecoil, as it's rate of movement is going to be determined by the values of the electrical signal applied. The mass/volume of air being moved gives you a lower possible frequency due to the size of lower frequency waves having a larger wavelength and therefore needing a larger amount of area to complete a full cycle. I love the videos and I don't know how deep your familiarity with things in those areas are so I just thought you might appreciate the knowledge if you weren't already familiar.
You should do a video on how to wire up active systems, like +8 speakers and do subwoofer setups for SQ, like Infinite baffles and such, to many spl Ported Boxes, so little SQ systems
I've measured the TS parameters for a car audio woofer and found that they were different than the manufacture's supplied specifications. I'm guessing those specifications came from a prototype measured before mass production. They were also measurably different between two woofers never re-coned off the same manufacturing run. Do you ever measure your woofers before building important enclosures?
Lots of good information! I also would like to see how you would put these parameters to use. Like which subwoofer would be better in a small cab of a truck vs in the trunk of a car. My main focus is in SQ. How to be an audiophile...in a car... with a beer budget. Thanks for all your great videos! (yes, I have watched them ALL!)
You have a great knowledge of car audio. I'm in the process of putting a system together and wanted to know what you thought. I little background. My brother bought a couple of orion 12 inch subs with an orion ported enclosure tuned to 35hz I think. He can't use the box as his truck doesn't have enough room. Also I'm buying his old 12" dual voice coil 4 ohm Alpine type R's and the orion box since I have a suburban and plenty of room. He's also selling me his 1000 watt alpine monoblock. Last week we installed a new Kenwood head unit that features time alignment and crossovers. we used jacketed 16 ga wire. It also has a 13 band eq a lot of other features I don't really understand. I also bought 2 new alpine 6.5 door speakers. We haven't installed the amp and subs yet. I'm going to put the 6.5's in the back doors and buy the alpine component speakers for the front. I will be purchasing a alpine 4 channel amp for the door speakers and probably JL power cable install kits for the amps. My main question is do you think the type r's will sound good in the orion box? It's a really nice box. I think it's plexiglass. So that's the layout of the system and I listen to a lot of different kinds of music. I just want the quality of the sound to be superior. More so than the total output. I also used some 3m underlining and sound dampening spray in my jeep that I sold. I applied it to the inside of the sub box and behind the door speakers. It really cleaned up the sound and made the bass very rich and deep. I probably go with some dynamat this time. So, what do you think? Thanks in advance for your expert opinion.
The xmax calculation method that you provide is only valid with overhung voice coil speakers. (Coil winding length - gap height)/2 = xmax But for underhung coils, it is (gap height - coil winding length)/2 = xmax. That's the quickest method to determine xmax. The other method is to measure the BL of the motor/coil combination as the coil moves. When the BL drops to 70% of the resting BL measurement, that is the maximum excursion at approximately 10% distortion.
I've seen a lot of speaker MFG's use 2.83V input to rate SPL by rather than 1 watt. I mention this because 2.83V into 1ohm is going to be more power than 2.83V into 4ohms. It would be nice if everyone used @1w to level the field. Also, you missed 1 parameter that shows up from time to time yet is seldom explained and that's Xmech. The mechanical limit of the suspension before damage.
Have you got a video about 4th Gen Camaro/Firebird build? Trying to wrap my thoughts around a good 10 inch subwoofer for a sealed encloser something around .75 to .80 cubic feet.
nice video. i feel a little more info on how each measurement affects sound. like does a stiffer sub produce sharper bass or more boom. also how measurements mesh, like a loose-low vmax sub would most likely sound bad or distorted in a ported box. another view would be what type of sound do you want, measurement groups in this range in box-A will produce crisp bass, this range in box-B will produce big boom bass.
Hi Mark. Hopefully you end up reading this, I have a question I believe you may be able to answer and clear up some confusion I have. Sorry in advance if this may be a little long winded. I specifically looked through your videos to find this one so that my question is relevant to what is being viewed and so that this may help others before they get this deep. So... I have a Crescendo Forte 15" sub that I re-coned with Sundown SA-15 V1 Rev. 3 soft parts. Here's the big question: how would I figure out what my T/S parameters are or how they have changed without the use of a computer and the accompanying software/hardware? for example, I know that obviously my BL stayed the same as before... but how has that influenced things like the QES rating on these new sundown parts that weren't originally intended to be used with a crescendo motor? And if Qes changes, does the spider allow for the Qms to change? I may be over thinking things, but I speculate that one different specification (motor force in my scenario) would have a domino effect on some of the parameters of this "mashup sub". Believe me, if I could have replaced the parts with same brand & specs, i would have, but Crescendo no longer offers Forte support for soft parts. I'm pretty well aware that I could have just bought a new sub, but this sub & box was gifted to me with a broken cone which I repaired and banged on for a good year and a half on safe power levels. alas, I ended up getting an amplifier that was capable of giving the sub its RMS rating... And then some, and uhh, i gave it the beans... That unbalanced repaired cone/coil didn't like that for long. With that being said, I had no initial investment in the sub/box and i saved it from the Florida rain so it only felt right to re-cone vs. Buying a new sub for easily twice the amount... Now, I'm wanting to put the icing on the cake and build an enclosure so im confused as to how to get accurate specs of the sub or whether it really matters that much... As if to say, maybe I should compare both sets of T/S figures and make calculations based on known parameters and ballpark figures on the unknowns... Build a box, and see if I'm happy with results. Wood hasn't been so affordable lately and I'm not fond of wasting material or money
Can you make a video about SPL?? Because I confused them with brands..., for an example the Pioneer Champion Series subwoofers have much more sensitivity rating between 90dB and 97dB, but these efficient subs are not loved by people and the people tend to use brands such as Sundown Audio, Skar Audio and American Bass subs which have a sensitivity between 83dB and 86dB at 1w/1m. Can you please make a video on these SPL problems????
I'm wondering, are manufacturers still making the long linear throw coil/top plate designs, like the ones Adire Brahma or Resonant Engineering used? Yeah, it's been some years since i was into caraudio, found this page by coincidence. Your videos are amazing, they brought back many good memories :-)
Thank for the video mark these help me understand a lot next I would like to see and it will help a lot of us bass heads out here is the what is an epicenter and how it affects subwoofers because the fs of the speaker is 38hz and the epicenter chip is 33hz but we want to listen to decaf and in one of your vids you said that that is the lowest that the speaker can go so when can we apply an epicenter and what is the sweep and wide settings and also how to tune it right with the mono block
I really like your videos but I wish very much you could compere your theory in musicaly examples. for instance; when you describe the Q values, you explain that these are described as stiffness in the subwoofer, but what does that mean in terms of how it sounds. Does a stiffer subwoofer (or certain components) make the subwoofer good for playing deep bass? Is it good for clear sound at lower volumes? Can it play certain frequencys better at higher volumes etc. This is what I would really like to know, not just at the Q values but at all the other specs aswell... Ps. You got a really good nice channel good information. It's wierd how only got 220k subs. Your channel is probably going to blow up in the near future... :)
Question please: If I have to choose four (4) T/S parameters to compare how close 2 woofers perform, what will these be? (I know these are rules of thumb, but I would still like to know.) Thanks.
When we request a custom box design from your website, do you also recommend the types of subwoofers to use and amp? Coming from someone that knows nothing about car audio, but wants to do things the right way lol
How would you pick the best subwoofer for free air application. As you said, that having a qts of .7 or higher is better for free air. But on the other hand, an online audio store says qts doesn’t matter as long as the subwoofer is “built for free air application “. The Kicker Comp C 12” has a low QTS of .559 that I have in a free air application and the store recommended this because they said it’s built for free air, but it is not as good as I thought it would be. I thought it would hit harder than the JL Audio 12W0v3-4 that I had in, which has a qts of .67. To me, it seems like the JL does better than the Kicker. What would you, go by what the store says or go by the subwoofers qts?
So what numbers & specs. would be best for 70's & 80's rock and country music at a moderate volume? I'm not into dubstep, bassnectar, or rap, it's cool, just not my style. I'm looking for something to play all the subtle nuances and full rounded bass. My wife doesn't like it so load you cannot hear the person next to you. For a 2017 CRV would 8" or 10" subs work best? And what subs...?
great video man, thanks :D also, I was wondering, how do you determine at what frequency to tune a subwoofer enclosure? like, a customer listens to a lot of trap music with heavy bass, how do you pick a frequency to tune that box for? and how do you choose wether to go with a ported or a sealed enclosure?
Unfortunately it is a that simple. As im sure Mark will tell you too. I am also a professional who did this for many many years. There are so many other things to consider in this. Both sealed & ported can be great. Ported are less forgiving to mistakes, also space since they tend to need more. A proper ported can be very clean & loud. But after it hits its tuning frequency it falls off fast, which not only wastes amp power but can damage subs. The sealed doesn't have this problem so much & can go deeper than the sealed boxes "tuning" (Fc), but i use that term losely in that it isn't tuned in the same way as a ported. But it takes alot of power to & really works the sub to get to its peak tuning, or loudest, whereas opposite for a ported in that the "work" comrs from the port. Actually when a ported sub hits it's tuning (Fb) the sub almost comes to a complete stop, tho so fast its not seen. So what are you trying to do, how much space do you have, how much money &/ or time will be invested? What kind of vehicle is being used? Another important factor is something called the "Transfer Function" & the vehicles natural tuning frequency (vFs). Everything has a natural resonance, similar to how he was explaining the subs natural resonance was out of the box, or it's (Fs). Transfer function is pretty much how the sound is tuned, reflects and essentially Amplified and or muffled by the shape, size, & what's in the vehicle. This typically exaggerates frequencies, but can also dampen them. As a quick for instance, typically SUVs would have a lower resonance (Fs), 40 - 50hz. Cars usually in the 60 hz range give or take. And hatchback type cars seem to usually be in the 60 -80hz range. Again this depends on the size and what's in the car, as in the type of materials and if it's stripped down or fully loaded, etc. The transfer function in many cases will tend to exaggerate these certain frequencies, but not limited only too. In many cases will exaggerate many of the high frequencies also, for instance why SUV type trucks tend to easily get that deeper bass sound, while hatchbacks will be very loud & punchy with their bass. So as you can see there is alot, & actually still more. There used to be a time when the basic rule of thumb was, if you like rap or rock go ported & tuned as low as possible, if you like clean type slower music go sealed, & a much of other misleading crap.
Very helpful. Another way to approach this would be take a few scenarios of budget, space available, goals (SQ, SPL), power available, etc. and select an actual subwoofer for that hypo application. Just a thought. Thanks much!
I am considering a subwoofer for my car. I already have all Infinity Reference setup - 4 channel AMP, 2 components in the front and 2 coaxials in the rear. I am not looking for high volume but good depth to the music. Which should I consider? 1) 12 inch subwoofer with frequency range - 50hz to 250HZ (400W RMS) or 2) 8 inch subwoofer with frequency range - 35 Hz to 150 Hz (125W RMS)
I think ur a legend man can u tell me what sub box would be amazing meaning setting off alarm for a tundra double cab lol the back seat is so hard to get subs there was looking into stealth box from jl but heard that when u put allot of power to them they tend to burn out please help design a custom box for this truck or give me some advice I’m going crazy lol
I have a question on subwoofer. Am looking at a 15' sub with max watts of 3000 and RMS at 1500W. I have a Matts Pro Audio amp at 2000Watts. Will i be getting the full potential from the sub using this amp??
God I hope you respond to this. I was reading up on the difference between ported and sealed subs and I thought, well, a lot of the Metal I listen to has two types of bass-producing instruments that really needs to be distinguished properly. The kick drums are usually tight with a quick, non-resonating attack which is ideal for the fast, machine gun-like rolls you hear in a lot of Death Metal. Then, of course, you have the bass guitar which is more reverberating, but doesn't usually make itself stand out like funk, but more of a backbone to keep the guitar and drums together. I would think it would be difficult for a single subwoofer, ported or sealed, to properly represent each instrument at the same time. So why not two subs? One ported, one sealed, and both tuned to their respective frequency range by the crossover? Could that work? I'm getting my D-6.1200 today and I really want to ditch my Kicker Hideaway for something better.
So if I buy a kicker comp Q with a 39hz FS and put it into a custom box tuned to 32-34hz.... Will it hit the low lows? Because that's my current plan.... But I still have time to change the sub
Quick question? I got the JBL Club A600 monoblock amp. But I have the JBL Stadium 12" subwoofer. Probably 2 of them. I actually bought 1 but they sent me 2 😮. So I'll probably use it. Just need to get a 2 subwoofer box. But that amp (which is 600W RMS) and the subwoofer (which is 500W RMS) shouldn't have any trouble working together, right?
I thought SPL was more of the sensitivity of a driver rather than the efficiency; I considered the EBP (Fs/Qes) as a reference for efficiency. Am I wrong in thinking this?
How about you just tell me what is the best setup for my car, I have a bmw 428 grand coupe and just want a tad more bass than it came stock.... I want max space left avail in my trunk area, was thinking a bass tube? I will buy a custom box, help!
