PS Audio loudspeaker designer Chris Brunhaver shares with the Colorado Audio Society the inner workings of the new aspen 10, the 20 and 30 and shows them one of the biggest subwoofer drivers ever.
Brilliant video! Chris talking so eloquently about complex issues, that everyone might be able to understand. 40 minutes of pure wisdom shared. Thank you!!!
Great discussion. I learn so much when Chris is speaking. Having audience Q&A brought out the best. This could have gone on for another hour and I would have been spell bound. Thanks Chris and Paul for sharing this. Great for adding credibility to PS Audio speakers as well.
The design of these speakers have really grown on me. I thought they looked too commercial or something at first but as I continue to look at them they just really sit well design wise.
I've been designing and building speakers since the late sixties so for sure my time has passed , but I appreciate Chris and I look forward to more nerd fixes like this . Informative , insightful , and just plain fun . It's also nice to know that some part of the BG organization carries on ...thanks
Very cool to see PS Audio doing this. Love it when companies are open about their product design and comfortable sharing their approach and philosophies. Really helps potential customers understand and appreciate the people working to build the stuff and the passion they have for the products. That means allot in a world where there are so many options, and many of them sort of being a dime a dozen.
So relieved to listen to a real engineer here! I'm thinking back on explanations of "technologies" from some of the manufacturers delivering the most expensive high-end products, and how they do persuade some of the reviewers to believe in they undocumented and semi-professional choices of "technologies".
Superb engineer with much in the way of an holistic approach toward the goals of loudspeaker system development and research. This informal gathering brief is not only unique. It is a clear demonstration of the confidence in what they are doing today. Many other companies simply don't want anyone to know what they're doing with pretty tried-and-tested formulae, yet here, Chris expands on some more than salient aspects of what constitute as more than relevant advances on key areas that collectively influence the efficiency of these designs. Great presentation!
Chris has an amazing ability as an engineer to talk to lay people in simple terms, which shows his true command of the topic. I hope Chris is locked up with ownership in PSA so that he doesn't go the way of Darren to the next higher bidder....
This was a great presentation and very educational. I was fortunate enough to attend and have Chris demo the speakers, much to his credit he passed around the iPad and we could play anything we liked, no curated demo music chosen to sound good. In the room we were in, I enjoyed the middle of the line up the most, I suspect it just gelled with the room better. Many thanks to Paul and PS Audio for hosting our group. Many thanks to Chris for answering my questions about crossover topology and details.
One more thing why I, as once a salesman for stereo and home theater systems, asked for the room dimensions was a possibility to estimate how much a client can spend, just to the assumption that the bigger the room needed to sound, the more expensive his real estate is, and the more he can spend. So it was a proxy for a budget if the client didn't want to provide any.
he undersold the fact that speakers "mutilate" the sounds your expensive electronics are creating. he didn't discuss the crossover issues, also. Good stuff.
That's nice from Paul, showing so much the tecnology insides. Not all do that and it's always a party and making new friends. Congratulations from Portugal 🇵🇹
👍Great content Paul . Thanks for posting/sharing this, and thank you Chris. Very 😎. It’s always great to hear no bull shit tech talk! 👏 ☕️Have a great day, gents!🥳👨🏻
Wow, love hearing Chris speak with all his knowledge, interesting at the end about some new work being accomplished with Air Motion Transformers, I'm a huge fan and listen to some Great Heils everyday. I went to the Western Electric site to see, very cool.
I like this guy. I have several of the B-G ribbon speakers, a pair of LFT-8B Eminent Technology speaks, 2 pairs of ESS AMTS (b & d ver.), and several of the Martin-Logan various models w/ 8" woofers. Oh yeah and a pair of Innersounds that are about 30-years old (ones w/ the separate UK-built bass amp/x-over). So, basically, I'm sick but have a love of that planar clarity and speed. If I was still as nutty and chasing my former audio addiction I can tell I'd most likely want something from this company.
` A double pair KLH-9's not only provide deep, deep bass in quantity, but when driven with OTL Futterman circuitry tube amps, was one of the very rare devices that could render classical double bass sound with all of the timbre intact. Most other sub-bass devices render classical double bass very much like that of a ball park Hammond organ with just one slider in use! I believe that if Gary Karr had the opportunity to listen to what I had in the past, he would have been less reluctant to do recordings.
Even using floorstanders I still rely on my B&W subwoofer to add really nice controlled bass from it's 10-inch driver and Class A/B 150 watts to give me 20 Hz at 90 dB in my modest 5X5 meter listening room.
I believe the split gap motor in those large woofers is referred to as XBL squared motor. Used in some terrific subwoofers over the last 15 -20 years. Dan Wiggens had the original patent. see the famous 'Tc sounds LMS 5400 Subbwoofer driver".
Yes, I worked for Adire and that’s what it is. The LMS 5400 is something different. TC sounds LMS technology with a variable voice coil winding to get linear motor force versus excursion
@@cbrunhaver Yup, I recognize an XBL² motor when I see it! At least most of the time. I used to have an old school RE XXX 12" Quad-1Ω running off two Fosgate BD1000.1s in a ported box, and it was an amazing setup. When Andrew started up Adire Audio again, I ended up picking up four 10" Brahma D2's during one of their sales and hope to implement them into a design. The other motor topology that was/is absolutely amazing is JBL's DDD motor in their WGTi series.
I thought my disguise would allow me to partake in this wonderful outing and without being noticed. Just an audiophile today tagging along with the Colorado Audio Society members. Just like everyone present and those looking at the video, Paul, Chris and their team members are pushing the limits as to speaker design. It was a treat to visit the music rooms and hear their equipment. A great time had by all! Thanks for noticing I was there!
That subwoofer motor reminds me of an Adire Audio Tumult. While im more into car audio than home audio i enjoy both, but i feel like the car audio world is miles ahead in the subwoofer game. Im curious if the home audio companies even pay attention to car audio (ill assume not much however, considering how many home subs seem to be "proprietary" to certain companies).
Almost certainly parts of it come from the same OEM manufacturer. Pretty sure PSaudio don't run their own steel forge/casting factory. They buy components for their gear from one of the big dogs like everyone else and just assemble. Maybe make or wind vc's locally but they aren't making the wire that goes into the coil. Lots of the time the "designers" will work with OEMs to tweak what the OEM is offering or maybe if they have oodles of cash, they will get the OEM to produce something to their custom spec. That magnet and the speaker basket are probably off the shelf OEM designs. PS audio get to make it their own by whatever VC they strap it to or whoever's speaker cone they strap on the front of it.
@@gtvwill No need to explain to me, i already know these things lol. The basket is an open tooled 'T.I." basket. It was a TC Sounds design, which if i remember correctly the patent had expired. And yes, made now in China. While it reminds me of a Tumult sub mag/top plate, im sure its been tweaked at least a bit. Id be shocked to learn if its the same as the Tumult exactly. Most every part of every sub or speaker is pretty much made in China now, regardless of whether its assembled in America or not. There are still a veeeery small number of US parts manufacturers, but only a few. Precision Econowind is still a US company, and they make a good chunk of voice coils for the audio industry. So at least one part of a sub will usually be US made. I have no idea on the actual wire they use, but it wouldnt surprise me if its foreign as well. Anyways, cones, coils, baskets, motors ect...even full subs to just simply add branding can be ordered from China. Which is why i was surprised to see the sub in this vid. Most of the subs i see for home audio are generally (again) 'proprietary' designs. Which honestly is a bit suspect considering (again) they could learn a lot from the car audio industry instead of trying their own designs that the end result may be good, but its just simply a reason to charge outrageous prices (that goes for regular drivers as well). Subwoofer and speaker designs have changed very little in their overall design for the last 50+ years, materials not withstanding. Then again, I know a lot of the insanely high home audio costs are passed onto consumers as "the price of R&D" and/or ridiculous enclosure materials, which is honestly a huge cop out of you actually think about it. None of these speakers should cost as much as they do. I guess they love the illusion of the customers thinking more expensive is better.
@@FOH3663 Im mainly speaking of subwoofer design. Many car audio subwoofer manufacturers have incredible drivers capable of impressive excursion, power handling, and seriously impressive low frequency response. Im just surprised that more things arent adopted from them and placed into the home audio/subwoofer world. The two that DO stick out from car audio are JL Audio, and Stereo Integrity, and i dont know, maybe a couple others that im forgetting.
Wow! Cool to hear that PS Audio is considering doing a new more affordable speaker line. I would love to help Beta test those! How bout a old school 12” high efficiency 3 way. 👍🏻🔈 I really think it could do well!
High Efficiency = High Distortion. You need stronger magnets and stronger coils, to prevent distortions. That comes at a cost of extra power needed to drive them... and its FAR more worth the extra power usage... , rather than using a low power ECO-woofers... that distort vocals and musical details into each other. The diameter of the woofer does make a difference.. however, the driver design itself is far more important than the cone diameter. Ive owned cheap 12" woofers, that couldnt hold a candle to the bass thump, and musical accuracy, of far superior 8" woofers. Personally, I would never use anything below 8" drivers. Most Audiophile companies refuse to use woofers larger than 8 inches, because the larger the cone.. the more mass. The more mass... means that you need much stronger coils and magnets, to be able to accelerate (and decel / stop / reverse) that cone. The lighter the cone... the faster it can accelerate, and you will get Far more precision control (with even less power consumption). Faster and Lighter + strong magnetics = near distortion free, audiophile grade Output.
@@johndough8115 I know this is different, but similar to your points. Dipole speakers, the bass drivers almost never move. They can respond in an instant to transients / bass information. We really have never heard bass sound so good! And to johndough8115 point on the smaller drivers.
@@johndough8115 Good points and you seem to know allot more than me. But check out the measurements online of the CerwinVega! XLS215. These are high efficiency speakers and have a low distortion. 👍🏻
@@johndough8115 Some good points ... but I'll push back on the lighter cones being able to accelerate faster. Moving mass doesn't impact ability to accelerate. As you mentioned it does however impact sensitivity.
@@JR-ho5qm Cerwin Vegas are what you call "Party Speakers"... very close to PA style speakers. They are not even close to being considered Audiophile grade sound. You should also know that the distortions Im speaking of, are not the kinds that you hear. Its more like when you cant understand what lyrics the singer is singing.. because the musical instruments and the singers vocals.. end up blending together.. due to the weak drivers lack of control. DJ / Party type of speakers, are good for very large rooms, where you need extremely loud volume levels.. and the ability to drive the sounds very deep into the room. This is why they often choose to use Horn tweeters... and those are notorious for distorting the natural 3d Soundstage "Image". They also tend to be very "Harsh" and "Fatiguing". Just looked up the model you spoke of. My buddie actually owns this model. He once demo'd them at one of his parties. He put in an Iron Man DVD / Bluray dics... and cranked the volume up to INSANE levels... At the time, I was playing one of his many arcade machines... and all the sudden, I hear Bullets flying, Explosions, glass breaking..etc.. I thought there was an actual WAR going on, outside, for a moment. While it was impressive that these were capable of that level of loudness, and sounding like an actual WAR... Here is the problem: Just like really being in such an event... it was extremely HARSH / Painful to the ears. It wasnt a good thing. Even when he was playing music through them... they had a very flat sound.. without a "3d Soundstage". They were also Harsh to my ears. I didnt really enjoy them at all, compared to my Audiophile grade speakers. Ive actually owned a lot of speakers that could go quite louder than my audiophile speakers. My original speakers, were Techniques 12" 3ways, capable of 200 watts each. While they were loud.. the bass was distorted and artificial sounding (typical of ported speakers). I felt the need to drive them loud.. because I was never fully satisfied with the sound they put out. But when I got a pair of EPI 100v speakers... I was blown away at how much better they sounded. I was finally hearing Bass that sounded musical and REAL.. and It was so amazingly different, that I put the Techs on the Curb, the next day. A single EPI 8 inch woofer, weighted more than TWO of the Techniques 12" woofers combined. Furthermore, they had a bass deeper response, and even a greater "Thump" that you could feel through the room/floor. While they couldnt play nearly as loud as the techs.. I didnt mind it, becuase it was loud enough, and the music sounded 1000x better. For the first time in my life... I was understanding singers lyrics in various old songs.. that I never could make out... on any other speaker that Ive heard / owned. Furthermore, the EPIs inverted tweeters, completely Trounced my Techs cheap mid and tweeter. They make a 3d soundstage that is, almost Holographic. In fact, if I blindfolded you... spun you around 20 times.. then asked you to try to find the speakers.. you wouldnt be able to do it... because the speakers sort of "Vanish". The sound is everywhere... like actually being there. You dont hear a "Speaker" or "Speaker Sound". Nothing artificial sounding... that gives away where the speakers are located. Its like magic! and its what totally sold me on getting a pair for myself. Additionally... unlike the Cerwin Vegas, or my former Techs... the EPIs tweeter produces very detailed highs and mids, WITHOUT sounding Harsh and Fatiguing to the ears... even at max volume levels... where the speakers are on the very verge of blowing. So again... if you are looking for cheap party speakers... you can find them pretty easily. Both used, and new. Because all sorts of people produce loud, low quality, speakers. But very few people produce and use Audiophile grade Drivers in their speakers. Most of them are completely unaffordable to the majority of the masses.. too. Which is why in my case, I lucked out, finding a cheap used pair of EPI's (from the 1970s era). Both refoamed, for a about $100 on Craigslist. These babies completely sh*t on the $3500 speakers, in the local high end audio shop. Its not even a competition. But the EPIs, while able to play loud enough to get the cops called on you, when playing in an Apartment... they are not really "Party" or "DJ" level speakers. Thats a whole other kind of speaker. And Not one that I care for anymore... after hearing the EPIs.
1,500 years of experience in that audience that know the difference between gimmicks and good audio. Just looking for that near-perfect speaker from a company that may actually be able to provide it.
Great video! Any plans on making a light grey colored grill cover for the white Aspen speakers? Similar to what B&W and Focal does with their white speakers.
Yes! Just enjoying the hobby! Hard for me at trade shows to actually kick the tires snd get a chance to listen to equipment. Paul was gracious to host the Colorado Audio Society. Hands down Christopher provided us with lots of information and answered many great questions posed by very serious audiophiles. Nice to not be working and enjoying the outing! Thanks for noticing my color test pattern boxers!
Any measurements or information to support this? Maybe with a very poor quality iron core inductor you could see something like that but we are using big air cores and poly film caps and the non-linear distortion is completely dominated by the (already very low distortion) drive units. Active speakers have other benefits (some of which I describe) but, at home audio power levels and midrange crossover points, a difference in sound quality because of lower distortion isn't one of them.
When asked about active speakers, Chris focused more on all-in-one solutions with dac and dsp. I think the guy wanted to know about active analogue crossovers before the power amp. Al things the same, active speakers have more presence and life. Plus being more efficient you can avoid those gazillion Watts amplifiers.
You can have active digital (DSP) speakers with outboard dacs and power amps. Linn. Sanders Sound. PMC? I will only use active speakers, for the reasons you mentioned. Most pro audio is active. Audiophiles are about 2-3 decades behind. Discard the passive crossovers. A high quality, studio quality DSP. Multiple dacs. Multiple power amps.
@@n.lyndley.9889 I am bit on the fence on all in one HiEnd like Linn. Amp and analogue crossovers last quite some time, but DAC and DSP tend to become obsolete very quickly. My favourite approach wold be passive xover with a bypass on the back of the speakers and a external xover. The user then picks the amp it wants.
This is extremely fascinating what they've done for their speakers. I'm particularly intrigued by the split gap technology. I have wanted to try making a woofer with a long VC but with graduated windings with a diminished stasis region to address the compression that Chris spoke of.
What you described was already patented by TC sounds as their LMS (linear motor system) technology. This tech is now owned by Tymphany and also used in the purifi woofer
Didn't point out where the planar mid crosses over to the woofer? Cross whatever mid you choose lower, then doppler and intermodulation effects, etc. by a woofer on mid frequencies is less of an issue. Also didn't get into detail about the cone material in the woofer, or enough specifics on their motor's better approach to linearity (if this was developed by someone else many years back, was there a paper published)? The distance integration comments are quite helpful though.
We have a 400 hz crossover on the Aspen FR20/30. Depending on the type and construction of the midrange a lower crossover definitely isn’t always better. Doppler distortion is orders of magnitude less significant to IMD other types of distortion mentioned. The woofer tech is called XBL and was developed at Adire Audio where I worked in my early 20’s.
When he turned round that speaker Ahh KEf 139 units no Chris is really starting from scratch to get the best sounding speakers available.Would like to know what the vertical frequency up and down measures a big failing with many makers
These are similar in shape to the b139 passive but are smaller. They had an aluminum/styrofoam “cone” and we are using fiberglass/rohacell/carbon fiber. While the vertical response contributes to the early reflections (off the floor and ceiling), they are a lot less critical than the horizontal response of the speaker to overall sound quality
the subwoofer topic interest me, but i do not like the approach of high excursion, i rather have dual 18" with half the cone travel. that would solve a lot if issues and think you can use the same size box also. and you also the twice the cone area, so you get twice the punch at lower volume. you can wrap you brain around this by an example: one 8" subwoofer with 2" excursion vs one 16" subwoofer with 0.5" excursion, or four 8" subwoofers.
It’s a plastic diaphragm with an etched aluminum voice coil circuit on it. This allows it to have a high enough impedance to be driven by an audio amplifier without needing a transformer and far more rugged pure aluminum “ribbon”
Dammm that top plate is a thick boy lol Copper rings do you mean shorting rings right to stop over excursion on the up stroke nice to see you using a TI style basket/frame :)
Actually, what you’re describing is a “shorted turn” of the voice coil. These are a stationary conductive ring (copper or aluminum) placed in one or more places inside the motor (inside an undercut in the pole piece, top of the pole piece, inside the magnet, between the magnetic gaps in a split gap design, sleeving the pole with a thin tube). Generally, these shield the steel from A/C eddy currents which cause A/C forces - distortion- on the coil and DC forces- dynamic offset/rectification. They also make the coils inductance more linear with respect to excursion (in and out of the steel motor) and versus current. JBL and scan speak did some early work with this (see patents for the scan speak sd-1 motor or JBL vented gap/sfg in the 1970s
@@davidfromamerica1871 Wow. That's a low blow. Me being older and having slight tinnitus in one ear :) So older people might? be more passionate about audio? I'm asking for a friend.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Paul says you can hear his speakers magically disappear even if you are tone deaf if you buy his system. 👍😀 Don’t wait act now before they are all sold out..😀👍😎🤗
Thank you for letting us eavesdrop on the thinking behind the FR speaker series, it's very informative. That 18" subwoofer has about 5X the cone area of an 8" unit. What are the differences in performance and cost of using the 18" unit vs 5 of the smaller units? I'm thinking very hatd about springing for the FR20's for my system, just have to fill up that piggy bank.
I LOVE PS Audio, Chris & Paul!!! I just with the Speakers were not Made in China!!! Hurts me so Much!! I understand that USA doesn’t have the MFG resoruces to make these, but what not Start with Assembly and work towards USA MFG. Why couldn’t they have the BG equipment to make the Divers?? he Subwoofer could definitly be Made in USA, and the planar spealer Component Products are the most difficult. Paul please figure out how to make these in the USA, as I want to buy them, but there are a fea good USA based options… 😎
don't see the problem you're still buying the speakers from a US company that just happen to out source some of their manufacturing , they'll be built to company design, specifications & quality control.
Thank god for auto play. Otherwised i would have missed this video. But holly bib and OMG. I trully enjoyed watching this one. So many details and usefull information like i have never heard before. Things like this and other gives a better picture when it comes to sound. Great video. I needed this one.
I used to work for Dan. I wouldn’t say a lot of companies use it. There are a few, certainly. Home and car subwoofers by their definition are quite low sensitivity. No, I wouldn’t recommend this approach for professional sound reinforcement m. I am also working on some other magnet structures for various products that’s an overhung with undercut pole and saturated tips and some shorting rings
