What you said about Aman'thul ripping out the tree that Eonar planted correlating with him ripping out Y'shaarj has huge implications now. The Old Gods are really Life unbound, which goes against what the Titans work towards: order and binding. Interestingly now, Ysera finally broke out of the cycle that Eonar designed for her so maybe she will see now how unnatural it all is, becoming the catalyst and voice for death being the only end to life. We will finally be getting the truth and answers we've needed and I can't wait.
Pyro back making wow lore content?! Feels FUCKING good man. I totally get why he stepped out, but regardless its great hearing his thoughts again. Lets hope fkin blizzard doesnt disappoint our boy again
I like the idea of the conspiracy beeing the "titans" convincing us that Azeroth(soul) was still at the core of this planet, when in fact she's been gone since at least the time of the Sundering. Azeroth left An'she, Mu'sha and Lo'sho in control of the planet/her creation(Tauren Lore), but then "the titans" or their master/creator arrived and locked them away and turned the planet into a giant battery that charges "him" or his "machines" that now run the show. I think Azeroth's world soul calling for Thrall and Anduin in the cinetmatic is a bit of a trivial storyarch and if it really was Azeroth, Thrall wouldn't answer "i'm not sure yet".
Man we went different paths when you started playing ff14 because im not into that game but i was happy for you , you were having fun ; watching your lore videos back made my day.
Pyro, I finally figured it out. The link between Dreanor and Azeroth. The origin of the old gods and how they got corrupted. It all (pretty much) falls into place.
I wonder if when it comes to The Last Titan expansion. wether Illidan will know what’s going on and be the catalyst that kicks the expansion off basically coming back to Azeroth to say, ‘guys, the Titans are coming, and it’s not good…’ would be the perfect way to hype it up.
I'm so glad we will get to hear you Talk about the lore of the next expansions. To further the thought about the emerald dream being a device to keep Azeroth sleeping, it is said that the Titans dreams while they grow inside the planets. And it mirrors the dreams of lovecraftian entities that contact us through visions and dreams to inspire us to free them.
Pyro have you seen the Time Rift, where the Titans won in that timeline? the whole planet is covered by out of control life to the point that the Titanforged get hunted down like sport
«The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green.” While Illgynoths whispers have been forgotten and a lot of them haven’t come true, I genuinely believe this is a jab at Eonar. We’ll understand everything during The Last Titan expansion. I genuinely feel like both BfA (to a certain extent.) and especially Shadowlands was just filler expansions, when we could have jumped straight towards the World Soul saga. I’m really enjoying Dragonflight, it’s a lot of fun, but it slows down the story so. much. I’m so happy to see that you’re back. I remember listening to your theories and speculations before I went to bed, because they helped me fall asleep when I struggled with bad periods of stress and insomnia.
your theory about the void lords not even wanting to manifest in reality sounds right. that makes the story we get from the titans that they supposedly threw the old gods into the universe to infest planets instead of them questionable, too. what if the old gods are just native to azeroth, do we have any indisputable evidence that doesn't come to us from the titans that isn't the case?
The legend coming back is great news as always. Great to have you back as always. That said in our absence Illidan has been left in the pantheon. What part do you think he will play in the world soul saga? Especially in Midnight with us going back to the Soul Well. That second installation has me really interested for sure to see what we do with the Sun Well. The elves are pretty protective of their wells.
I said this on another video, but goddamn man, it's good to see this energy again, and to hear your theories. I love hypothesizing on lore in pretty much any medium, and your channel is as much a staple for that with WoW, as someone like LML is for ASoIAF. I look forward to seeing how things progress, and you've got me more excited and hopeful.
Man, awhile back I came up with the theory that the Old Gods were in some way corrupted life, I even tried to bring it up to Accolonn but he just went over it completely. I'm glad your back on the wow lore Pyro, love the content!
The Void Lords and Old Gods are 2 factions of The Shadow or Void. I do agree with someone in chat who said split them in two make it Shadow and the Old Gods, and then make Void and The Void Lords the "7th" power that was mentioned in Shadowlands
I'm so glad you're back to making these videos man! Alway loved listening to them while working. Can't wait for the Worldsoul saga, i even cried when seeing Metzen up there unfolding it all on us.
Something to take note of when looking at the cosmology chart, think of each corner as needing all of the others to exist for itself to exist. Shadow is a combination of order and death, order is a combination of life and shadow, and so on all the way around. What does that say about the titans? Sure they're all about cultivating life, but with a cold, controlling, immoral feel to it. Each corner of the chart is both entirely unique to itself, and exactly half of its two neighbors combined to make it so. If one were to dissappear, the fabric of everything would fall apart and cease to be.
When the world-soul saga got announced i immediately thought of Pyro. all these years of dot connecting and speculation, and it's finally been revealed as on point after all this time. His enthusiasm and passion for the WoW lore is rubbing off on me as well. I am so happy that blizz has re-earned Pyro's fire. I'll be re-watching some pyro videos and reading some lore for sure!
If you look at the two cosmological charts, the 6 powers are divided into 2 groups in 2 ways. A. healing/creation vs corruption/destruction. -Light/Life/Arcane vs Void/Death/Fel. B. "Orderly" vs Chaotic forces. -Light/Death/Arcane vs Void/Life/Fel.
One of the questions i always had is why the Tauren always called The earth " Mother " Did tauren ancestors somehow were aware of Azeroth's identity as the Mother?
know what I think? I think they had the idea for the next 3 expansions, roughly, during Legion. they knew they wanted to do this stuff with the void and the world soul, however, they realized they had not in the slightest set up certain key characters for it, namely Anduin. so they gave us BFA and Shadowlands to basically set Anduin up (and some others), which is why the story felt so...what? because it wasn't the story of sylvanas and the jailer, it was the story of "get these characters where we need them". then we get Dragonflight which does the same for the aspects and reveals some more titan stuff for us, sets the ground stage for the idea of "maybe the titans aren't all good" kinda thing. basically, the last 3 expansions have been them playing catchup for their own story because they had a certain story to tell but had not set the ground work to tell it how they wanted and, the reason they announced the next 3 expansions is because metzen came back and said "ok guys wtf are you doing nobody cares about our expansions, speculations are at an all time low, and there's like no hype. we need to reinvigorate ppl, so we're gonna announce everything"
This was a really fun stream to be a part of. Getting Chris Metzen back on the team and Pyro lore speculation videos has reignited my intrest in WoW. It's impeccable timing, considering the Destiny community is collapsing around me.
I think an important thing that people need to realize is that the Titans are not arcane beings that embody the raw arcane power that mages tap into to cast their spells, they embody the nature of the spells themselves. They are the essence that takes the uncontrolled force and twists and manipulates it to serve the design of the caster. As is the case with most entities aligned with "Order" they are not in actuality beings that have gone through the cosmos and put them in their proper place, because the truth is that there is no proper place for them to be. They aren't cosmic curators, they are celestial conquerors. All of the other cosmic forces were "ordered" by the Titans in so far as they were brought under Titan control. Aman-Thul is the one who created the Bronze Dragonflight and invented the concept of fate so that time would serve to empower and enrich the Titans. Sargeras' job before he went against the other titans was to gather up all of the beings from the twisting nether and bring them under Titan control, something he ultimately did through the formation of the Burning Legion, ironically. But even then, he didn't serve the desires of the demons, he enslaved them to his will. If any of the Element coded Titans like Khaz'Goroth or Golganneth were corrupted by those elements they wouldn't have had to have locked all the elemental lords on Azeroth in prison planes to keep them under control. The conflict that the Titans are engaging with is not one of Order versus Chaos, it is the fight between those who want to be in control and those who do not want to be controlled. Eonar is not the "Life Speaker" or "Life Enjoyer." She is the Life Binder. She binds life, specifically to the will of the Titans. She isn't corrupted by life, she is the conqueror of it, just like all of the other titans are beings who have gained control over some other competing force. That is what "Order" is. The will to dominate, to put everything in its proper place under the command of a single tyrant.
7:00 on this: Final Fantasy XI is a pretty interesting MMO. It came out before both WoW and XIV and a lot of the plot threads, narrative themes and even visual design cues of XIV often build on top of and expand ideas introduced in XI's story and lore (while also remaining very distinct in it's own ways). That being said, in this case the world being a living, sentient being obviously has very deep roots in the many mythologies that arose throughout human history. Great video, WoW lore goes hard
Well, watching this video sparked something in my mind. Y'shaarj being ripped out of the planet on the same timeframe when a tree was ripped out left me with an idea. It never dawned on me how old gods and the emerald nightmare could be related, I recall it being highly implied in the story but it wasn't that logical to me. The druid artifact from Legion was named G'Hanir, as it was a branch from the original G'Hanir (mother tree in the emerald dream). Whenever you get the branch first, it is corrupted and glowing with purpleish light. The naming convention for G'Hanir isn't similar to other world trees like Nordrassil (elven name) and is waaaay too similar to G'Huun/Old god naming convention. This all comes together with the theory of the planets and purple being so thematically binded to void/old gods. I'm so hyped for this, man...
Eonar says in the Sargeras cinematic: "It is time." That's my gripe with her. HOW would a "Life-Binder" know better than the titan who controls all time (supposedly) when it's time. Also, now we got the story for The Last Titan, there's something ominous about Aman'thul stating "We must gather our strength." Then referring to us as the children of Azeroth now sounds more like he was just letting us go to live out a last few years until we would be on the receiving end of the outcome of him gathering strength. Also, they need strength when they just pulled Sargeras away from Azeroth with such ease??? Also, Sargeras swiping at the ship makes me think that he thought Illidan had once again betrayed him... Btw, there's this line on Warcraft Wiki (replacing wowpedia): "orbs of mystic fire set in their place that allowed Illidan to see all forms of magic" so when Illidan said "At last" was it for the confrontation with Sargeras OR was it for the plan that had been set in motion around the time of the War of the Ancients finally to happen. I think also this is why Illidan resisted Xe'ra because she would have restored his normal eye sight. I think there's a power struggle going on over at that "throne" and that whoever wins means we're either facing an adversary who is too strong or one that could be defeatable. Also, who says not that Sargeras isn't another entity who had been hearing "the voice" and that she'd been telling him HOW to defeat the true enemies all this time. She was about to tell him more when our real enemy struck. So, Sargeras did the desperate thing. Plunged his sword into the world. Btw, based on googling this in general a while back for "solving" the mystery of the Chamber of the Heart" and found that the head, chest and arm pits are the warmest parts of the body. Then I guess "428,000 degrees Kraklenheit" is how hot the Heart of the Chamber would be. So hot that it caused a volcano to erupt above it. That one time, though not provable with a screenshot unless I find it in my many screenshots, that when I opened it that showed my main as located in the centre of Un'Goro and not in the Chamber of the Heart of Silithus. When Silithus was blasted by the sword it exposed in part a second layer that it's sand was covering up. I've always thought that the crystals pre-sword looked like a version of Azerite. Also, the entrance platform teleports you NOT to just below but to where a pylon (the southern one) always was missing. Or it never needed to be there as that's where the tunnel leading north to the chamber. Those pylons, when activated all point to the middle. To Azeroth's heart I would guess. If you look at the machinations of the crystal structures they were designed to give her health, power, defence, etc. Un'Goro (and also Tanaris) were invaded by C'Thun who was obviously working on disrupting this flow of power. So when it was suggested we're going to find out more about the machines that the Titan slapped onto the planet I was excited. Over the past decade or so (since going to Northrend for the first time and find the Engine of the Makers and I'm convinced it's not the only one of such engines. This one is linked to Norgannon. I'm convinced that the Chamber of the Heart is a similar structure really and connected to Eonar. That every of the Titans (including the former Titan Sargeras) has a similar "engine" and it was their way to control Azeroth, order her if you will, but based on the fact that Ahn'Qiraj was a titan research facility that the controlling was not so much done out of kindness. I think that's what Sargeras knew, that he was working on a way to sever all final controls by the Titans over Azeroth, and that's why he plunged a sword into Silithus as that was likely where her "brain" is located. Then look at the sword not at a device to kill her but to give us the means to feed all energy from reality and all other realities into her to strengthen her and heal her. That was anima going into the planet via the sword I would guess. That sword was the way Azeroth got given back her voice (which was "ordered out of existence" by the Titans until recently). Azeroth is like a patient waking up from an induced coma really...
12:30 - If I were a betting man, I'd say that we're going to see a retcon of the old RPG-lore (I believe Metzen was involved in the production of it?) that makes it so that it wasn't the ordering of the cosmos by the Titans that upset Sargeras, but rather the ordering of the Cosmos by the First Ones. Unfortunately, Shadowlands has happened and we have to deal with the fact that the First Ones are apparently a thing now. Unless the Pantheon are the First Ones, which I somewhat doubt. But if that's the case, then Shadowlands proves that Sargeras was right in the RPG-lore; the ordering of the Cosmos into one primary reality with 6 realms of powers largely (but not entirely) gated from it is what caused the corruptions of the demons, assuming the demons only really became what they are today once sequestered away into a realm of pure Fel and chaos. The same goes for every other major combatant in the cosmic conflict. The red thread between Shadowlands and Dragonflight is this notion that division of the cosmos and/or domination by one particular power is bad. Hence I would assume that we are looking at some sort of re-origination, but at a cosmic scale. Just as Shadowlands explored the consequences of one of these realms breaking down, I think we're going to see the storyline, either during or directly following the World Souls Saga, start to lean heavily into the idea that we have to shut down this machine altogether. A machine that wasn't meant to last. That might also help redeem Zovaal as a character to some extent, by making him a "spanner in the works" similar to what Sargeras became. Maybe all realms are headed toward similar conflicts. All the way back in Burning Crusade we had "good" or at least neutral demons, who weren't aligned with Burning Legion. We also know that the amount of demons actually aligned with Sargeras may have been relatively small, considering how thinly their forces were actually spread (key locations being vulnerable to skirmishes by the Illidary, for example), and the concept of an "infinite legion" was predicated on the idea of being able to more or less instantaneously regenerate their numbers through Argus. That's all to say that there may actually be a lot more going on in the realm of Fel than we're aware of, and that we could see the Burning Legion prove to be something of a red herring, giving us a false interpretation of demon culture, much like how the Titans may have lied about the nature of the Void.
I've always processed "Corruption" as a creature existing in one nature, and another nature becoming more than 50% of that person's original nature. I'd call a void elf a corrupted elf. I'd call a Lightforged Draenei, a corrupted Draenei. I'd call any "demon", corrupted. They all came from worlds where they certainly were not infused with Fel at first. I feel like that's a pretty reasonable method of processing what that word means.
I could see Azeroth having some sort of comradery with us when she wakes up. I think the world soul would be thankful for its spirited mortals and try to minimize the damage it's awakening would cause. Maybe.
15:50 So what you're sayin' in, move them old gods more towards the center of the cosmology map? And that would be their natural position, if it wasn't for shadow corruption/some other tinkering? Cause, I like that idea.
I think somehow the new world tree will be void infused by Xal'atath and that will result on a purple Azeroth planet with the big roots everywhere, launching the Midnight expansion.
4:31 the story for the blue dragonflight and all the titan stuff starts at 70...plus the zaralek stuff was decent as well. Yeah u need to play through it to know whats goin on with tyr etc.
It's gonna be amazing when the Titans turn out to be good after all and the 'conspiracy' is just false information to protect the Worldsoul. Bonus points for Eonar being the goodest of good.
So many things about the cosmological chart are weird. One thing that always struck me was why the domain of Life and Death seemingly have a realm between them and Reality, but the four other domains don't. According to Shadowlands (the expansion) lore, the First Ones, creators of the universe, made the Shadowlands along with all the cosmic forces. I think Shadowlands and Reality are meant as two sides of the same coin that sits in the middle of all the forces - the Shadowlands are not supposed to be closer to any one force, it should be in the middle along with Reality. But the cosmological chart lies and tries to tell us that it is a realm between reality and the domain of Death so that it can justify the Emerald Dream as the realm of Life. This is to hide that the Emerald Dream was in fact made AFTER the First Ones created it all. That someone created the Emerald Dream with a purpose, but then tried to hide it as just a "natural" part of the world like the Shadowlands. It's just such a weird asymmetry to give two out of six forces a special realm connected to Reality. And since we know Reality and Shadowlands exists, and we know about their origin from a different source than the Titans (whom we know lie), it makes sense that the Emerald Dream is the odd one out.
Life is chaos and death is order is one interpretation when you look at the behavior of living things, but if you follow entropy as a definition of disorder as it is in physics then its the opposite, life has less entropy, less disorder, than death.
If there is an evil life conspiracy lead by Eonar, and Chronicle is their Titan propaganda, why would they explain to us what happened in Draenor with the sporemound?
So, are they going to tie the other 4 cosmic forces of Order, Chaos, Life and Death in with this Saga? They only spoke about Light and Void. And unless they’re just going to ignore it, what was the Jailer on about? Was he talking about the Void that’s coming in Midnight? The Titans being evil manipulators? Or something worse?
Didn't see you mention it but you were talking about the emerald dream being bad and keeping azeroth asleep in the cinematic thrall says it's like a voice calling to me from a dream and it seems like she yells or screams. It's like she's trying to tell us the dream is bad
Speaking of void entities... When Warlocks summon their void thing... The thing it says... "send me back..." it doesn't fucking want to be there. You're forcing it. So that ads credence when he says they want nothing to do with reality.
Well I’ve wanted to indulge in WoW lore since I started playing earlier this year so you making lore content would itch my scratch. I subbed just in case, good luck and I hope the story goes in directions you seem to have been hoping for.
i've always made comparisons between galakrond and the old gods, in the dawn of infinte mega dungeon we saw iridikon absorb the essence of galakrond then leave in a void portal.
You were my favorite loreguy for wow and i stopped watching once you swapped to ff, but now you are back and im insta hooked and you my boi. Hope you continue wow videos so many shit about to come and cook during those 3 expansions it gonna be leet.
12:00 I'm not sure about this but if Zandalar and those poeple who have been there are older than old gods and black empire we can get to the theory of Titans creating old gods to show them selves as the good creatures and tell that we need them to protect us from old gods and G'huun was a test subject in the process
I’ve missed your WoW content. Really glad it’s back and hopefully minus any random content creatpr drama 😂 I hope they deliver and can’t wait for your takes specifically.
we apparently just killed cthun, yogg and nzoth, and as far as we know, without negative effects if thats the case, the titans might have imprisoned them for other reasons also, its weird that uldir, the facility in which they experimented, created and imprisoned an old god, seems to be older than ulduar, which was created to imprison yogg mother and the other titan creations in uldir come across as the very early ones they created, based on how robotic they are compared to the others
Something I can’t seem to figure out…why can there be earthen around after the curse of flesh? This is one thing that I can’t really wrap my head around. Is it that the ones on the surface got it? Or a fraction of them got it? I’m not sure. Thoughts?
