It's TIPM Time! Let's see what gremlins are hiding in the magic black box, and if there is any way at all that we can fix it without buying a new magic black box. Enjoy! Ivan
Don't know if you'll see this but I want to thank you! This Car has been sitting here for months because I haven't had the money to get it fixed. I did the relay fix yesterday and drove it all day! Thanks for everything!
Ivan, I love how you always "think out of the box." I'm a "really" old guy, with a lot of electronic experience, but I always learn from you. You, sir, have my admiration. Thank you.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics You're probably also bypassing some other "safety" issues--- by not letting the TIPM put the transmission in limp mode for other reasons.. For example, I know that if the Accelerator pedal and the throttle body (or throttle position sensor) do not agree because the throttle is sticking, or more likely: the plastic gears that actuate the throttle body break--- It goes into limp mode, because the throttle could randomly go to WOT (wide open throttle) or something, or could get stuck in WOT after you step on it-- because of a broken piece of gear making it stick open, ect.. ect.. I'm sure there are other reasons. My 2010 Dodge Nitro had this issue, and the trans was put into limp mode--- obviously by the TIPM---------- This bypass won't allow that to happen now--- so if the car got stuck in WOT, the person would have to think fast enough to lock the brakes, turn off the key, throw it in neutral, ect. ect.. Which honestly I'm fine with myself. We don't need this nanny state mentality trying to hold everyone's hand and save them from these very unlikely hypotheticals by putting our cars in limp mode for us. (although, it did happen to my Nitro--- and it did high rev a few times like it had a mind of it's own: so it's not that uncommon I guess. lol). A new throttle body fixed my issue. I love the work around here IVAN.. but it does come with it's legal liabilities.
Great tutorial. After sinking a lot of money into my 06 pt I found this video tutorial. Followed the steps to bypass the tipm for this particular code and if fixed my car. Even tho I had already installed a new tipm it still had the code and would not let the trans shift. Followed these steps and fixed it. Thanks for the help!!!
I would do the same as you. Any time you can wire in a relay to do the same job as a module relay, you can do it. Just make sure the new relay has the appropriate diode across the relay coil to dissipate the control voltage (PCM protection). Nice Job. Having the wiring diagrams makes it easy.
Yes, good idea. Put a 1n4001 diode across the relay coil - wired cathode (stripe) to PCM control, anode to ground. This will shunt any high voltage caused by coil field collapse.
Your video is awesome I’m 71 and from Australia. I’m what they call a bush mechanic ( self taught since 19 years old ) and I try too do the job as cheap as possible for the customer
I've gotta hand it to you, pal. That was a slick work around. You outsmarted some lousy Chrysler engineers with their spaghetti PCBs and their "designed obsolescence" mindset.
The underside of that tipm is completely different than the one I was working on but we both came to the same fix essentially, but your choice is a lot more professional than what I did. I simply eliminated the tipm and connected the two wires together outside of the unit since they were both battery voltage wires I didn't even think about installing a relay. Whoops, but it worked. After 18 months, of having one problem after another we finally got rid of the car and the next owner had zero problems with it afterwards. Of course the car was totaled in an accident about 6 months after it was sold but they were 6 months of trouble free driving anyhow.
The TIPM was a bad idea courtesy of Mercedes Benz engineers... Daimler-Benz owned Chrysler at the time and demanded that Chrysler change over to Mercedes-style electrical system (complexity, unreliability, and HANG the cost). Earlier PTs than 2006 did not have TIPMs.
Great job Ivan! I think what you charge is fair. My uncle always said "take a little, give a little and leave a little for the next guy". I try to stick to that 👍☺️
Thanks bro that tip helped me out big time my car 06 Pt cruiser stuck on 1st gear for 2 weeks until I seen this video wow it worked it has been one whole year and it’s still running. Thanks bro. Go Raiders!!!!!!
Where I work, I use a stereo microscope when looking at circuit boards. It really allows you to get in there and see things really well. Also, a lot of people have mentioned a freewheeling diode backwards across the coil. You didn't mention it so we don't know if you know about it or not. Before you ever connect a relay, you have to consider the back EMF from the relay coil when you shut it off. It can be thousands of volts. Also, the light test on that output doesn't tell you how much stress that light is putting on the circuit. Something else to be mindful of while doing this type of repair.
@rickwest2818. My exact thoughts, i was like that relay is gonna send lightning bolts through the tipm when it keys off. I was thinking use a SSR instead.
I think that is what Chrysler did for the fuel pump circuit failing in the Tipm a few years ago. The Tipm modules were so bad that they were causing vehicles to stall in the middle of the road. They were on back order while they fixed the design flaw so the dealers installed an external relay. Well done, Ivan.
this video series has been sitting in my Watch Later for like... 5 years. 5 years ago, I was driving a 2005 base model PT Cruiser as a last resort, no money for a replacement unless i wound up in dire straits. Well.... I did. the car would literally start giving me MASSIVE issues actually delivering power above a certain accelerator setting once the engine bay got too warm. The car damn near killed me losing power abruptly while at highway speeds, and would not restore it until I waited an arbitrary amount of time. At the time I had no idea what was going on. I wish I had watched this series back then, because I might have been able to tell someone to figure out what in the TIPM was losing its mind and replace it with a relay. Instead I spent all my money on a completely different used car. Honestly I don't regret doing so. I just think it is insane that a vehicle could be designed *this* unreliably.
If the customer is willing to pay for 3 hours of towing to Ivan's shop, then the customer is unlikely to complain about a few hours of diagnosis and repair.
Very good repair Ivan. I'm not Russian but would do the same thing. The only change I would make is to put the fuse very close to the battery terminal. That way the power wire is protected on the way up to the relay.
Your diagnostics fee was more than reasonable, plus you gave this customer a premium service and repair they would have NEVER received anywhere else. (other than maybe SMA, of course)
I love the old school fix ivan :-D, paralleling the crappy board mosfet driver with a relay. Relays are simple and easy to replace :-D Mosfets can be good, but the relay is very tolerant.
My thoughts exactly. Great job Ivan, I remember some years ago having an overheating issue with a GM car. It turned out to be the ecm not activating the electric cooling fans. I basically did the similar thing you did by doing it the"old school way" and presto no more overheating problems. I've done this with electric fuel pumps as well, works every time. Nothing like the old school way IMO.
Considering it acted up whenever you tapped it or moved it with some sort of vibration it's very likely there's a cold solder joint (cracked). I reckon it's the board interconnect where the two PCBs meet at a right angle (most leverage there when shaking and most movement). Power transistors or MOSFETs actually rarely go bad. If this went bad, other things might very likely go bad as well soon. If the conformal coating wasn't too thick at that interconnect, I would have tried reflowing that lead-free solder, which is prone to cracking, with some leaded and had a look if that fixed the issue. Fixed nonetheless, very nice!
Lead free solder is the culprit in most of these component failures. I can’t stand lead free solder. Imagine how much more reliable consumer electronics would be without it.
Agreed. The most likely place for a lead free solder to crack is at the 90 degree connection between the two boards. The gate trace of the MOSFET on the board goes there (visible at 3:09) and tapping the top of the TIPM might cause the 90 degree connection flex if housing let the connection bend -> failure prone. Bad design. If it's not a cracked solder joint, another option could be installing a micro relay inside the TIPM at the right upper hand area (3:09) of the board and wire it to the signal connector from ECM, load side positive from the MOSFET plus and load out to the output pin.. This way no-one would see the relay ;) Agree that the risk is that some other solder joint will crack later at the 90 degree location.
That is the right way yo go. PT cruiser are well know for lots of problems including electrical, transmission and so on. You just safe this PT from the scrap yard and save the owner of a big expensive repair that could easy get half of the cost of the PT cruiser market value. If I'm the customer and you explain what was the plan and I approved it. I will be more than happy with your rate and total cost.
great work! I'm currently in a trade school taking an automotive electronic and mechanical program. I like to see "ratchet" repairs such as this one, I've done similar stuff, can't wait to see more.
Completely fair. Great job. 2 hours diag. And I was thinking about an hour for the repair, plus parts. They didnt have to buy a $500+ part, your giving them a one year warranty, and you have to get paid for your time. More than reasonable
I just implemented this on my 2007 sebring, it worked!! Only thing that was different was my wiring diagram. My lemon is fixed.. thank you so much for this content
One tip. That fuse really should be as close to the source as possible to protect against any shorts. That whole section of wire between the battery and fuse is unprotected in this situation.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Almost. You actually wrapped it around the TIPM Feed which is a large 8 ga or 4 ga wire. So when the relay power shorts out and melts, it'll melt the insulation on the 4 ga as well, providing ample current to fry the car!
You gave this problem more attention and depth than I think most people would. Once the TIPM was diagnosed I think most would just order the part and wait (if they even got the diagnoses right). Car electrical issues are the devil. Good job sir.
Fantastico tutorial y gracias a ello pude reparar mi PT CRUISER 2006 con la misma falla... Muchas Gracias por compartir !!! saludos desde Monterrey N.L.
Hola podrías describir que tipo de relay usaste ? El solo describió como Bosh/ Toyota , hay un número de parte o accesorio y donde la conseguiste . Te agradecería mucho . Saludos a Monterrey
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I need help my car pt cruiser 2006 is going into limp mode my wire are yellow and black I found the green wire but I'm trying to see if the yellow and black wire Is the wire I put the yellow on from the relay
This relay worked great and saved me from having to give up my PT. I'm disabled and can easily get in and out of car. I've had 1 brand new one and 2 used P T .Thank you ! Thank you !
What a great video......Some of the 'old school' components still do the job. I like the way you can incorporate them in your repairs and explain your methods. Your time and labor charges are more than fair. All the best !!!
Kudos!!, don't know a lot about the electrical system, but had a pleasure watching you dissect the TIPM. I have a 2010 PT , took it from my daughter she had nothing but problems, and gave her my car. have the head lights on the right side not working and the horn, and I wasn't about to replace the TIPM. Again, you're a master at work.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you. I had the P0882 on our 2011 Chrysler 200 Limited. Same TPIM. Spliced both wires under the TPIM. Control was B pin 10, Yellow Brown, (relay) then powers K3 (Yellow Orange) works like a charm! Thanks man! You Rock! Tommy K
"What was wrong with old school fuses and relays?" Well, they didn't fail often enough, and when they did, they were often user-serviceable and inexpensive. Why let a consumer get away with a $2 fix when you can charge $100 an hour to replace a $200 part?
Hey I'm going through the same thing but on a 08 Dodge avenger mimic what you did with the pigtail I didn't use the Toyota style of relay and I wasn't sure on which of yellow and orange wire you were speaking of so many help would be appreciated thank you for the video
Dude, you are a lifesaver. I had no idea what was going on with my Chrysler 200. Same exact set up. The car was also low-voltage code would randomly come on when I would hit a speed bump or something and it would go into limp mode. Sometimes it would drive for an hour. Sometimes it would do this nonstop. I finally took out the TIPM and started smacking it around and it’s working right now. Worst case scenario I go to the junkyard. I did not even know where to begin, and this has been plaguing me for a month. I kept thinking it was a bad ground somewhere. Nope.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I would be terrified to try that lol but I ended up going to the junkyard and I was able to get a one from a Dodge avenger and my car is working now? I’ve been driving it all day! Thank you so much man I had the same exact symptoms, so I knew this had to be the problem you were right
Hi Ivan, I have been watching your channel for a few days now and I am totally impressed, especially when you work with Eric O, good guys, like your style.
Good thinking. The TIPM looks like a glorified I/O module. It's a good, reliable modern solution as long as the board is properly designed and QA tested. Unfortunately, not all designs are thoroughly tested and debugged. Quality control is not always the best either, since the contract goes to the lowest bidder, especially these days when everything is outsourced. Components quality can be questionable as well. You won't believe how many times I've done a similar repair and never had any complaints. Sometimes I've added a few additional components to the circuit board to make things work. BTW, be careful with installing relays to a solid state logic board. There is a voltage spike due to self induction in the relay coil when the coil is deenergized. It will probably work just fine but it may kill the output transistor on the ECM output. You can install a diode across the coil terminals to remedy the problem. Also, a mechanical relay can be subjected to contacts chatter (caused by vibration). Another solution is to use a 12VDC solid state relay (from "Ebay" or a similar retailer).
absolutely exact issue, absolute exact way i planned on going about attempting a repair vs replacement, but most of all the absolute best video, most comprehensive communication thru process of elimination, testing, repair confirmation...simply the best video anyone could of done working through an issue that may not be the most complex, but isn't simple either. Much appreciated sir. I wonder what you would charge after the added inflation of the last 4 years.
You are a genius! My 2009 PT cruiser have the horn stuck sometimes and I am suspecting the timp relay. And today accelerating it tried to turn off or failing to accelerate and now I’m thinking fuel pump relay!
I have a 2005 PT Cruiser & like your logic/explanation of proposed customer costs for the TIPM diagnosis & add relay repair. In light of today's computer driven systems this sure seems fair to this old Texas boy. Thank you for posting. Always enjoy your videos.
Ivan, wow!!! That's is awesome repair! Never ever in my thought to put a relay on that pcm to tipm!! That's so Russian repair!! Love this video! Out of this box thinking there, Ivan! You got my many many thumbs up from me! Now I've learned something really cool and fancy stuff! For two hours and some parts, definitely worth it, I'm with you there 100% as they probably looking to save money as possible! I'm sure they extremely happy with cost effective way to fix it without forking out $600 for the tipm!!
My granddaughter purchased a 2006 PT Cruiser recently (just got her license) and it started out with P0562 code, low voltage. Checked alternator and it was fine except for the excess ripple voltage. I thought, no biggie, I'll just put an external voltage gauge so that she can keep an eye on the voltage when the battery trouble light sets. Was fine for a while. Then the check engine light comes on and it goes into limp mode. Freaks her out. I check it and now it has the P0882 and P0700 codes related to TCM. Removed and cleaned out some corrosion on the TIPM and resealed it. Looked at the wiring and connectors to TIPM as well as ECM. All looked fine. Still limp mode, though not as often. Having been in electronics, specifically mobile communications, for 40+ years, the ripple voltage on the battery bugged me. I researched filters, bypasses and anything I thought would make the "Loser Cruiser" (Granddaughters name for car) a more reliable ride. In my experience, grounding is of utmost importance in any circuit comprised of solid-state components. The day before I found this video, I removed the ground stud cleaned the chassis down to bare metal and replaced the crimped on lug with a crimped and soldered on lug. Replaced the cable from the battery to the grounding stud and made sure all war tight and clean. It has been 4 days and so far I have had neither battery trouble light or check engine light with associated limp mode. There is also now no ripple on the alternator output. Sorry for long comment, but it appears that there are many PT Cruisers with the same or similar problems and this might just help someone. G0D bless.
Love the creative thinking, amazing job! Tipm is a thing of the past now, totally intergraded power module now went to the security gateway way module. They did a good job on them, was a good idea in theory. Using the coating for dust and metallic protector. Its main purpose is to take the commands from various switches and other modules and send those commands in the form of voltage or ground to wherever it needs to go. Pretty interesting how it works. Now with all the Can lines going to SGW it’s much more streamline which makes no more need for a tipm.
Just like a heart surgeon we now have Ivan the TIPM surgeon. Job well done! You saved the customer a substantial sum of money. Your expertise and the usage of your expensive diagnostic equipment should be fairly rewarded. I would recommend that you charge your actual labor and ½ the price of a new TIPM from the dealership.
Ivan that was very very good logic old school gotta love it i was following along step by step and thinking i wounder why you couldn't just use an old school relay???? and it blows my mind that is exactly what you did. Lol cant believe it that was so damn. AWESOME!!!!!!!! Great job
The charges are realistic. They are paying for what you know, not the actual hands on part of the repair. They pay for the smarts, not the parts. The stealership would have raked the guy over the coals and maybe never got it fixed in the end. After many sad situations I gave up on the dealers years ago. Half-assed repairs or bad diagnostics and big bills drove me crazy. Oh the stories I could tell. I do my own work now and I may be slow, but I get it done and save money. You customer saved a ton of money here. WELL DONE SIR!!!!
You asked about billing...well most repair shops charge by the hour for electrical repairs. I was surprised...Bosch/Toyota relay. I hate Bosch...i had a bad Bosch alternator....will never by anything Bosch again. PT Cruisers are a variant of the Neon...those things are junk. Your fix for thos problem was just brilliant. You probably saved this car from going to the scrap yard. Great Job.
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics I hope it has a built in diode or a resistor inline of control coil for power-off voltage spike suppression which can reach up to 80v what will kill the control transistor/ic prematurely
@@Airman.. I agree, also with a attenuator on the dso to save it from a 250v + inductive spike ( off state ) if no diode, or wrong direction. NPN's will fry.
Nice job Ivan! 👍👍 In my book, this is what we techs should be doing - figuring out how these over-engineered magic boxes operate, then ELIMINATE them for a fraction of the cost! I extended my middle digit to any automaker who engineers systems like this! 😤
Avenger 2008, same problem, this was my last hope, about to change the TIPM… thank you! I really appreciate the way you explained it, I was having the same issues, also opened the TIPM expecting to find some relays inside, but, we had the same surprise haha!… the Avenger is running again!
You are lucky the output of the driver could handle the relay solenoid thruput current. That was your savior. I'd have used a 3 or 4 amp fuse. Great job, you didn't change the functionality of the safety limp circuit and I doubt there will ever be a future issue. Just make the relay assembly look manufacture and professional. I'd say your pricing was spot on.
i just want to say thanks, i had this same problem and i got lucky and found a TIPM at the wrecking yard and that was exactly the problem with my car. your video was very informative and very helpful in tracking down the problem i was having.
Actually, to answer your bonus footage question, that's more than fair. Yes... 2 hrs for the diagnosis, which is fair when it's pointing to a main module. The ability to prove in various ways, that a costly module is the issue is time consuming. Then then 1.5 hrs for the fix is about fair.. maybe even a bit more. The work involved in opening the TIPM and then studying the board and THEN coming up with a solution, outside the norm is also worth every penny, especially compared to the cost of an entire unit. I love the fact you warranty your work too, that's the way it should be. 10 fold when it's for such a considerable span for electronic repair!! 2 thumbs up Ivan! 👍👍😊
I knew you'd get there Ivan. I've done several TPIM relay bypasses. Never for the TCM power though. I keep a few relays with pig tails on hand. You can get them in 10 packs on e-bay. It's common enough that I even keep one in my mobile load out. I have done 4 or 5 for fuel pump. I normally charge around $200 for this. I often worried that if one circuit in the TPIM failed, more may be getting ready to fail. But I have never had a comeback on one. First one I did was 2 years ago. 600 degrees Ivan?!?! I normally solder around 380-420! I use silver bearing solder though. ;)
