Citicorp Center | NYC skyscraper saved by a student’s question 

Your face looks like if a cross of Mark Zuckerberg and an Easter Island head was high and picked the wrong grail in Indiana Jones.

@Dander Spat Yep, let's get Dianne Hartley onto THAT construction mystery.

@Dander Spat Partly agree. It's no doubt a shit-filled conspiracy cover up, but I don't think it would lead to assassination, today.

@Dander Spat Lol. Yeah I get your HW reference! The more I look into this story, the more murky it becomes. There are, apparently, many levels of PR subtefuge going on here -- at the time of building (no structural overseeing, building code misinterpretation), soon after completion (Dianne Hartley's exposure), 18 years later (when the story first got out, blaming others for the cockup, NIST pretending it was all just an over-reaction), and now 45 years later, all the historical players are all spinning it differently. A sure sign of money and guilty incompetence pushing the agendas. Not a conspiracy theory, just observable facts.

It seems like Diane Hartley should have been the hero and actual subject of this video.

Haha, I read your comment and thought, 'He sounded pretty regular to me," then I remembered I'd bumped it up to 1.25 a couple of videos back.

Totally agree, not hating the guy. He is talking pretty slow. But I'm a same way too sometimes.

I tried it, and your right. But now he sounds like he’s barking some words. All about dynamics I guess?

Fact

Wowwwww

So very true. The most important thing he did right.

It is not a mistake. IT IS A DELIBERATE COST SAVING MEASURE FOR THE CONTRACTORS INVOLVED TO GET THE CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT. I remember your Admiral Rickover who is the most akward customer any contractor has to face in his life for Admiral Rickover is a FANATIC WHEN IT COMES TO SAFETY QUALITY STANDARDS which he had raised many times for lives are more important than costs savings.

@Anton Zuykov Some people really do get wrapped up in their own self importance. It's always best to have others cast their eye over designs - especially those who'll be making them. In mechanical engineering you have to consider tooling, so there's associated increased costs in specifying a process that your fabricator cannot do in-house. This can be as simple as knowing what their particular press brake is capable of in terms of the thickness of different materials. Architects have to be the worst for such dismissive behaviour.

Agree, he listened. Very unusual. The Architect is considered responsible (and always right), this was the structural engineer, who is always right over a mechanical engineer, and then senior trades people that have experience actualy building things, supliers... Student? I had a hard time getting my design teacher to listen, he had a Phd and was licenced, hence always right.

I agree! We have to listen carefully when others bring us comments. Thank you for pointing that out.

Ikr, I felt like I was in college all over again. My man is giving me flash and I'm not even graduated yet

He looks high af ngl

Had to go to settings and speed him up.

Seems like he’s drunk to me.

I did put it on 1.5 but overall at least his words are not mumbled at all

Probably becuz the correction was made in front of bunch of people so if her had ignored he'd be blamed that even after pointing out he didn't fix or warn the poeple

Happens way too often unfortunately

People always have their ego, but what's important is knowing when to set that ego aside

Most Americans have an ego

@@parabalani everyone has a fuckin ego

Underrated comment

babbb Le Measure twice Le Cut once.

Lmao

ara ara

@@PreachPickMeLol All construction principle.

On the contrary. It was much MORE hush-hush than stated. Perhaps you were more in the inner circle than you realized since the welders were among the very few in the know beyond the architects, the key executives, and trusted city officials. This documentary is many decades old and the picture quality is not the greatest but I remembered watching it on TV when it first aired. I highly recommend that you give it a watch. There may be some eye-opening moments there for you, especially given your unique and proximate perspective on the events that transpired. I’d be really interested to know what you think about it. Suffice to say that there is much more to this story than most realize, particularly thanks to the secrecy and discrete nature of how this crisis was conveyed and communicated. Here’s a link to that video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-njeC1RmrWJo.html

How much did they pay an hour?

Hush hush money? Just kidding. Good job

65MMREHP union welders make like 50 an hour today. So adjust backwards for inflation

Union wages are public. We set prevailing wage. Probably a night differential for the welders and overtime.

Most likely, he was told to be quiet about it. The owners of the building had much more of an incentive to keep it quiet and employed him.

Pretty sure it's in the insurance's best interest to minimize pay out costs if the building were to collapse and people were killed. So it's actually weird the insurance said nothing other than a chance someone sued over their life being endangered for it

@@michaelvigil5321 From what I read about it, there were evacuation plans in place and emergency services standing by, and they would have evacuated the building and nearby buildings if a storm or high winds were in the weather forecast. The building was stable in normal winds, so they did not feel the need to evacuate unless the wind speed increased.

Yeah but its like insurance cares more about your safety than probably you do yourself , its their business afterall. So i cannot see how insurance co was in on it.

@@sta1RR there obviously was either some money handed under the table from NY city so they would take the risk for 3months or it would land on insurance to pay anyway when companies have to shut down for 3 months over an egineering f up that was approved so it's not in companies control so insurance co would rather take the risk for 3 months. Not entirely sure of the whole scope of how insurance works in states but something like that must've happened, it's all about money and likelyhood of getting more than paying for them afterall.

It would be more like 6 weeks then.

Yeah this is the right thing to do. It's simply dumb from a human perspective to risk something of this magnitude. From the company's perspective maybe not.

If everyone knew, people will be wary of the building and would lose trust from the get go. It'd be a fiasco broadcasted everywhere damaging their reputation before they could do the repairs.

@@ayachavez7450 well good, their reputation should be build on the truth lol

Yeah ya think! Wtf kinda shits that!?

😳

Most underrated comment of the century

Nah, he went to Fiverr

He went to Dollar Shave, to get cool beard

Holly molly lmao

Try cheque mate

@@aussietaipan8700 What does your comment mean?

@@PhonePhone-bz2ql the female college girl figured out the numbers of the bldg and saved lives, the engineer went to work on the fix, the welders worked their butts off and saved he bldg, then there is you and you can't even figure out a simple comment on this thread

@@davidgdmz4551 so glad the workers saved "he" bldg.

Yea, called heroine though...

If it's not, it should be.

@ThatOne no because the government did it lmfao

@ThatOne who would be arrested? The negligent parties were killed in the collapse.

Only if you're poor. Rich people live by different laws - or change the laws.

@C3PO's daddy gods will? Seriously? Grow up.

Lol. Great point. Wtf.

Well it an be very easy to overlook such details. One must consider a ridiculous amount of things when building such things.

the architecture wasn't wrong though. it was the bolts that were replaced without the knowledge of the engineer.

here's ted-ed's video on the same topic ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-x0tcRqf7ciY.html

I mean it is something you mught forget

🤣

nailed it

Brilliant!!

I don't understand, I cut another piece off and it's still too short!!!

Oh, very good.

And if you don't have a solution to bring, don't bother going. Hmmm ... that doesn't sound right.

@@schwenke069 Oof

That makes no sense. You made a mistake because you didn't have the answer with you, or you wouldn't have made the mistake.

@@GarlicGrinder9 But once the error is pointed out, you can think of a solution. On a problem like this though, I'm curious about the timeline. How long do you let it go without saying something while you develop a solution?

@@jenniferpearce1052 well in the case of this building I would NEVER have let this pass if there were ANY doubt like in this case. I would've sat down with a team of engineers (NOT the guy that designed it) and figure out how to either rebuild the building, tear it doen, or repurpose it. Granted I'm not a structural engineer, but imagine if that student hadn't been there, or if she didn't know anything about building structure?

Damn

Yeah. He's saying they just repaired it while people are still working there? They should have evacuated and closed the building immediately. You can't send thousands of people into work the next day knowing that something as small as a 70mph wind will kill upwards 200,000 people...

But if you remember, there was only danger if the wind was 70mph or higher. So as long as the wind was normal, you were perfectly safe, nothing to worry about

@@andrewdynes5300 70 mph winds happen often though. They got really lucky

Click Bait

Got him a few seconds of my viewing.

Given that the word “recently” is nowhere to be found in the video title I fail to see how this is clickbait

The video is 3 years old btw

@@TomTom-cu7yy NOC

them jobs are good....best i ever did was equivalent of 3 months wages in 6 days.....and the company i was working for at the time allowed the 5 of us on the job to take the money as holiday pay if we wanted so as not to get slapped by the tax bandits for getting a lump sum that big.....winning all round on that job

@@unhippy1 May I ask what you work in?

Big mistake was from public authorities to let people into building and surrounding areas immediately after finding there was a major, life threatening, estructural problem, while deciding how to deal with it, and during emergency repairing. The fact that they only worked graveyard shifts, plus making every possible effort to keep it “discrete” and hiding it, day after day, from building users and neighbors, probably extended, and for a big margin, the repairing time. One thing is to “not to create hysteria” and to “keep everything under control, calm and peaceful”, quiet another is a corporation and an Government saving their “good names”, “reputations”, careersdeliberately placing thousands of lives at risk for three long months

@@edhernandez4344 assuming your american, i think the closest thing you guys have to what i am would be something like a Millwright.

@@unhippy1 does this mean you dont work in the USA?

@@elliottgranville4587 you worked with some pretty shitty professors then, or never made an impact on them.

ForgotHow ToUsername a lot of shitty professors out there

@@elliottgranville4587 your grammar makes it seem like you never even went to university

@@davidaviles8602 Your grammar is nothing to write home about, kind sir.

@@ForgotowToUserName Most professors are shit heaps mate

You may be right.. Then again we are talking about life and death. If you know a building is going to be bombed do you tell people or just say to yourself "hey, the mayor is supposed to do it"

@@Iceman-gm1fu Agreed. If 200,000 lives are at stake, only a coward excuses himself on a technicality. In fact, if it had been illegal for him to tell the public, and he knew he was facing certain prison time for doing so, he still should have done it.

@@iamtheiconoclast3 Creating a panic is probably the worst thing u can do.

@@blackshadow-_-c9441 Yes. In an emergency situation it is. But they could have stopped people before entering the buildings the next day to inform them of the dangers and let everyone make their own decision of whether or not they felt safe enough to enter.

You have all missed the point. It wasn't made public for fear of his reputation being ruined. You know damned well some shady, closed door deal was made to keep it quiet. I'm sure people probably got paid very well to keep their mouths shut. EVERYTHING in America is all about money, and we're talking NYC real estate here. $$$.

Coincidentally, if you want the area evacuated, those are the first people (and the mayor who also knew) you'd want to contact. So we don't know if he had malice or not. Maybe the secrecy was decided later

I call that instinctual negative reaction. INR. (My term)

@H M That's an impressive find! Just curious..how would you have reacted had you been the boss?

Jonathan Maydwell Honestly, that professor was lucky. I bet many students notice errors but don’t say anything cause they know it’s a slim to none chance they’ll be taken seriously.

Well if lives were at stake I think it’s a different story, not to mention if he did make a mistake and it fell then he would’ve been sued and probably jailed

@@DeathnoteBB your right im 54, i do as told keep my mouth shut, i dont help smart people, they are always right, ungrateful, and dont listen to the peons, then i laugh in there face after the failure quit on the spot and get anther idiot boss

Same

What do you mean by the mass on the roof cancelling the nausea effects?

Great Green Pot when something is tall it can pick up wind easier and sway but by adding weight to the top it makes it keep its center of gravity more and holds it down better. Idk tho I’m blowed rn Idek how I got to this video

@@Mike34b google: tuned mass damper

everything's illegal.

Surfside condo is a great example. A lot of illegal stuff gets passed/overlooked/hidden. Not just buildings, but planes are another great example

Everything is legal if you are paying the right politician

@@cardboardboxification not exactly but aight

In this case, the city would have to condemn the building as being unsafe in order to force it to close. And the mayor decided not to do that. It's not illegal to keep the building open if the city inspectors say it can be open. They probably looked at the weather forecast and how quickly they could make the repairs and estimated that they could fix the problem quickly and safely. If they expected a storm or high winds fairly soon, they might have made a different decision.

No, but engineering firms typically don't outsource back checking and quality control of their own internal calculations. Once he stamped the dwgs and signed them I'm fairly certain people assumed he knew what he was doing. Plus in 13 years I've never once had a fabricator or contractor back check my load cases or combinations... That's always done internally.

Municipal building department do not design your build, if you are a licensed engineer you are fully responsible for your design. Building inspectors job is to make sure the project is built to plan, not required to double check the engineer's load calcs.

The engineering company doesn't monitor it's own build with contractors and engineers on site? Cities have teams of engineers. What are they doing if they don't check calculations?

@@davec.3198 Typically on site engineers deal with RFIs, construction admin issues, unforeseen conditions, fit up issues, safety / OSHA items, and generally helping the contractor (depending on contract). Load cases and Load combinations are at the front end of this process.... Load generation precedes analysis which precedes design which precedes fabrication ... So by the time you're onsite installing the assumption (which I think is reasonable) is that the analysis and design are adequate.

@@TitleistGuy yeah true.. site engineer usually doesnt do any calc they are more on qc, supervision, rfi, safety, on site issue, etc..

Markass Brownlee thank you

Offering them a job would have been a good move.

I disagree. She was researching, as a student, and came into a problem and called and asked for help. She consulted the expert to find a solution, and the engineer was the one who actually realized and solved the problem. She doesn't deserve an honor for being a good student, she could be credited and other students should follow her example. Don't hand out awards to people for doing what they're supposed to do.

@@piraterubberduck6056 for one good question?.....ahhhh, no sir

I agree with Markass on this one. All that will do is fuel the idiocy these modern progressive students possess. And nothing would get done except a waist of time, explaining engineering to a bunch of social studies students. As they interrupt with phrases like "stop mansplaining" and "math is racist". LOL.

Many medical deaths every year. You are soo right. They're usually not even caught..

For certain medications a second RN signing off is required, such as insulin.

pfft

Literally any job could endanger human life. People need to suck it up and realize that the only one responsible for their life is themselves.

Dom s And that my friends is why our president isn’t special at all, he never admits he made a mistake. Blame, twist, spin is his MO

Dave B She certainly wasn’t my choice for front runner but yes, she has more integrity than trump. It was a case of voting for the lesser of two evils and sadly the worse one won.

Dave B Thanks fir asking. I appreciate your interest. I believe that we would have looked much more closely at foreign government meddling in our election, addressed the fake accounts established by foreign nationals pretending to be Americans and spreading false information. I believe our relationship with our allies would be much better, more trusting, more respectful. We would be creating more clean energy jobs, taking action to care of our environment and not eliminating environmental regulations. I believe race relations would be better, not perfect but certainly better. I also believe that the ACA would be properly funded instead of two years of efforts to dismantle it. I believe we wouldn’t have the tariff battles that have unbalanced our markets and trade hurting many Americans. We wouldn’t have had the longest government shutdown ever costing us $10 billion in the public and private sectors. And there’s more that I believe would be better had almost anyone else had won instead of trump. I don’t judge a president’s success just on the stock market, but if I were, note that the market rose 140% under Obama (8,000 to 19,800) . To just equal that market performance it would have to hit 49,000 points during trump’s tenure. While it would be great, I own stock mutuals, I highly doubt that that will happen. I’ve searched for what he’s actually accomplished that’s good for us and I can’t find much.

Patrick Colin Trump may use Iran to distract from the Mueller report, impeachment talk and the many other investigations and problems he’s facing. Sad. We don’t need another war.

Dave B you’re right, you’re not an expert, your just vomiting arguments the racists have been shoving down your throat. It’s not about ideology, it’s about humanity and simple common sense. The whole world is laughing about Trump’s idiocracy. Only the Nazis keep applauding, because he hates Muslims just as much as they do, for no apparent reason. The only good thing for us is that our chancelor has announced to become more independent from the USA and to stick closer to Europe and the EU in the future.

A professional is one who uses their expert knowledge to keep them out of situations that would require their expert skill.

@@01bigstick And that's why engineers share failure case studies.

A.A. Milne: best known as author of Winnie the Pooh.

@@01bigstick Well said.

yeah, I don't know why people keep saying that the Mayor "shouldve told the public"

Me!!!

Me TOO!!

Same here ha

Algorithm gang lol

Me

I'm just seeing the Scene with George Kennedy shaking someone lapel and yelling "You didn't weld the damned bolts to save a few bucks and now all these people are going to die!' A la 70s disaster movies lol...

That's very nice that you tied ethics into this. One very important thing that is deeply rooted in engineering but a surprising amount of people don't know about.

The professional ethics of hiding mistakes from the public eye and doing remedial work at night and ensuring that nobody knew the engineer was a buffoon until he retired?

Incredibly professional ethics not letting people in that building nor in the nearby buildings to know that they should not get near the building because a bad gust of wind can make it crash down, risking their lifes in the process.

@@AllAmericanGuyExpert Ethics courses provide examples of what not to do as well as example of what to do

Yes. This could have been an after disaster review, but the faults were remedied expeditiously with a safety team monitoring the building and weather closely until repairs were completed. uh.edu/ethicsinscience/Media/59Story.pdf for more details.

Unsung? Hardly. This video names her and describes her insight in detail.

Not allowing human lives with families and dreams inside the building might have been expeditious as well. They got lucky. Period. That is why this isn't an "after diaster review" At no point, the "safety teams" considered that they could prevent 100% of deaths by having the building empty during repairs. Remember how Florida just happened? Safety teams...

Young, middle aged or old, what’s the difference. Are you making a point of shining a light on our youth because of their perceived lack of intelligence by chance

@@kellensarien9039 Uh-huh... and how many years did it take for recognition? And why was recognition given to an unnamed "male" engineer? Where is he?

Fixed error for free?

@@Brian.Martin absolutely

You should have told him "I built it wrong for the lulz"

@@RicardoDirani lulz??

@@roscoepatternworks3471 Yeah, lulz....

Ty

Thanks! This should have been at the beginning!

@@gglife270 What major panic? Just don't use the offices at risk for the time being.

About every 12-15 years, looks like. But, you never know which year is going to be the year, so the critical part is getting it done before the storm season. If you have the months to do it quietly, do it quietly.

@@Rystefn would you say the same if any loved ones worked there. mother daughter father???

@@jfdomega7938 yup! because high winds like that are always predictable, storms that big don't just pop out of nowhere, you know at least a 2-3 days in advance if there's a chance of getting hit by that storm, so as long as they evacuate it by then everyone would be fine

@@exotic80 then there would be no harm in telling the public, because then you could confidently say, there was nothing to worry about. You know nobody is going to work on that building until it was fixed though. Money. Money is what kept them quiet. Nobody is going to pay rent for and work in a building that they knew could crumble with a high wind. You could tell them these winds don’t pop up overnight, but they won’t trust you. You’re the same person that had a major oversight in their building engineering and didn’t notice it until it was already built. It’s dishonest to keep this from the public.

interesting! but give us the rest of the story, please :)

I don't see what year and the months that the repair was made. Please share that when you have a chance. Thank you.

@@frankf8623 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@frankf8623 I bet you have that 1-800 number on speed dial to use for all the comments hate-on.

The above should read: for all the comments YOU hate-on. I means nothing without YOU.

Even if the City already had plans in place to evacuate in the event of high wind forecasts, or even keep the building closed the day before such forecasts? The fact was that the building was perfectly safe in normal conditions was likely taken into account, with monitoring and a plan in place should dangerous conditions arise. This is pretty common in all structural retrofits where it is found something may be a problem.

Yeeeeeessss!!!!!!

Haha

He trippin’

1.5 is sweeter !

You the real MVP

your life is in danger

your life is in danger, cause god designed you as an involuntary mortal

@@I_dont_want_an_at god doesn't exist

@@AndrewStrydomBRP indeed

and then get scared, paranoid, maybe get ptsd, constant anxiety, various fears or you could not get told and live life just the same

You teachers usually look like they came back from a Phish concert?

Street Racer I’m pretty sure that’s his point, it was in the “what he did wrong” section, and though at first I thought he was defending him too I think he’s saying the people working there would want to know their life is in danger (particularly due to how he points out that 70mph winds are somewhat common).

@@streetracer2321 You need to be very careful if you tell people that they're in danger. Failing high rise buildings are an especially frightening prospect. Provided that an evacuation of the area wouldn't have made more sense, I think not informing the public was the right thing. It would have caused a lot of problems with people refusing to go to work or moving out of the direct vicinity. You also shouldn't forget that stress you can't do anything to alleviate is harmful to physical and mental health. For me, the real question is whether they should have closed down the skyscraper and the neighbouring buildings. 200,000 people is a lot. Even a small chance of such a dramatic event leads to a high average number of lives lost. It might sound terribly utilitarian and cruel to express lives in money, but it's pretty much the only way to decide how much to spend on safety measures. Assuming the value of a statistical live to be 3 million dollars, the maximum damage preventable by evacuation would have been 600 billion dollars. With a 0.1% to 1% chance of failure, that results in 0.6 to 6 billion dollars worth of expected preventable loss of live. I don't really know how many people you'd need to move and how much that would cost. Let's say one million people at the cost of 3 months * 3000 dollars. That's 9 billion dollars, so it was probably a reasonable decision. I would have liked to be informed about the situation and the decision process afterwards (if I were living or working there), but given how the media and people who don't care about maths would have reacted, I can understand why they kept it a secret.

No kidding. It should be MY decision to put my life at risk, not my employer's.

@@Kenionatus I don't know how big of a deal you think it is to close down an area for a little while? But here's a hypothetical to help. Your mother is the one working in that tower. You know from the architect that it could collapse. If you tell your her, she will definitely inform the media. Do you let her go to work everyday in a potential death trap, just to avoid people 'refusing to go to work or moving out of the area?' In Canada everyone out of work because of COVID gets 2000 a month. There are ways to support the people who would be displaced or have their work affected.

​@@kurtisgibbs6698 If you applied that idea to every threat to life, you'd run out of money pretty quickly. That's the reason why there is such a concept as value of a statistical life. Especially if you start treating every human life as equal and start fixing every road across the planet, making every house earthquake safe, spending 10 million dollars to save a single cancer patient. While we're at it, why not reduce the speed limit on roads to 15 km/h (9.3 mph)? You can't stop everyone from dying. There comes a point at which you have to decide how much money (or time and resources) you want to allocate to safety. In your hypothetical situation, I'd probably ask the architect why he didn't inform the public. If we wouldn't give me a sound answer, I'd inform the media myself. That's at least what I think I'd do. Maybe I would also be selfish and inform my mother anyway...

I hope she was given a massive consulting fee.

I'm going to leave this comment here in case someone ever says what happened with her

She didn't knew her question made it to the engineer and that she was right. They kept it a secret for many years during the corrective process. Its only many years later when she was home she heard that on the news and went: hey! That's my study! There's a great podcast on 99% invisible.

@@otalbot6050 the company should have kept track on her and snapped her up. If they needed to keep their secrets so be it, but to lose someone who spotted a flaw and saved so many lives, not to mention the reputation of the company, was a mistake.

Agreed

The only reason you knew about it years ago is because someone spoke out🤣 what are you even talking about

@@notjazz. spoke out to the right ppl obviously don't play dumb

And before that ...

Those 'three' months? How about the ENTIRE TIME the building WAS BUILT! It took three months to correct the problem, the problem was there the entire life of the building until it was pointed out! Only difference was they knew of it during the repair. Heck, they didn't even tell the wielders themselves save the head of the wielder's union. Guess they didn't want to add 'hazard' pay on top of the emergency repairs.

If these winds are predictable they could've evacuated the area when high winds are possible during the repair period.

@@josephblow6654 Including the very people making the repairs? Guess how often weather is predicted wrongly. Even if it is right 3/4ths of the time they are STILL wrong 1/4ths of the time... That building had an extremely lucky run streak, it would of taken ONE BAD DAY to bring it down. Just one and they got extremely lucky. Good for them but I wouldn't count on it happening again. Someone was lucky enough to notice the flaw and the business was lucky enough to fix it in time. I pretty sure it was STILL a damn close thing!

@@jamesloll4601 im no metrologist but I feel like predicting that wind is lower than 70mph is going to have a very high chance of being right

People would question

I was an engineering student working as a computer operator in this building at night when this was going on and I just found out the full truth! I distinctly remember that there was some kind of structural work going on, asking about it, and being told something like "Oh the building sways a lot in the wind, and they want to reduce that," but nothing about any failure risk. I should have been told the full story so I could decide for myself whether or not I wanted to risk my own life for the pittance I was being paid. I'm actually kinda angry about how both Citicorp and NYC officials considered my life to be expendable in the service of covering up a legal and public relations debacle.

Government thinks you can't think for yourself

Agreed. Improving the building or something close it for 1-2 months and do the work. Doesn’t risk anyone’s life and they don’t need to elaborate more than that. And they would have finished it much sooner since the welders could work day and night.

I mean, that would just be a lie by omission. Suggesting that it's routine when in fact it's an emergency and the building is currently unsafe.

3. If you can, cover up the mistake you made before and after you've fixed it.

@@walterdayrit675 good point brother.

I think rule 2 should be the first one! 4 eyes see more than 2 (German common saying)

Thank you for the tldw

Can you imagine knowing this, as the engineer, and being at home that night. Every night would be like 'please dont let there be a storm, please don't let there be a storm'.

@@tedcrilly46 that's true lol

@@internetperson8146 my pleasure :)

Thank you. The mistake wasn't clear in the video. This explanation is great!

If they had told people what would it have accomplished besides causing panic? It would have just complicated matters, if they didn't care about ordinary people they wouldn't have fixed it at all.

He told the mayor and the mayor didn’t give out the warning.probably told him to stay quiet as well.

They monitored the situation (wind forecasts) with plans for keeping the building closed (and likely surrounding buildings), if there was any chance of winds approaching 70 mph. That was the appropriate course of action. The fact that the City had monitoring in place, and a plan to keep people out if winds were going to be close to critical is left out of the story. That and repairs were likely done to the most critical members first and within the first few weeks, the wind resistance of the structure was likely greatly increased (concentrate on the lower members first, the ones with the highest wind load).

A 70 mph wind can happen at anytime and kill hundreds of people because of a faulty design and these people kept it a secret.... Excuse me, did you ask us if we thought that was ethical? That's reprehensible, that's criminal.

@@fritzmiller9792 ​ @Fritz Miller As stated previously in this comment thread (imagine actually reading the comments of those you are responding to) they took measures to make sure nothing bad happened.

Doubtful, he took the credit and forgot who she is. That's the college weasel of today

I don't think so he just used her like many high ranking engineers in offices do and take credit for your work.

simple fact her name is now known to posterity, so she got her due at some point, probably sooner rather than later.

@42treg another liberal idiot speaks. More women in Trump's business then Odingbat ever had

RJ 1999 , it’s more a reference to Trump’s inability to make a mistake and his tendency to cover up his mistakes and deny them than Trump’s raging misogyny. Show me an instance where Trump makes a mistake and admits it. And his “admission “ that Obama was born in America doesn’t count, because he immediately goes off to blame Hillary of all people and pats himself on the back “for setting the record straight”

You: acting like you're smarter than him after watching this video explaining everything.

@@justcrap3703 that was my first thought just has soon I saw that weird ass shape. It's not... Rocket science.

@@justcrap3703 I don’t think he took a position of superiority at all with that comment but okay, say whatever you want if it’s in the pursuit of making someone feel bad

This video doesn’t tell the entire story. Diane was actually doing her thesis and did extensive reviews of the building plans and calculations, she didn’t just ask a question in class like the video implies. The contractor also changed the original connection design from welds to bolts. Now granted, the engineer should have checked the connection before giving the ok. LeMessurier was a partner in an engineering firm and I seriously doubt he was the one answering that RFI, but sounds like he did do the calculation check once the error was brought up. Anyway, this type of mistake (steel detailed changed the design, but not the complete reason for failure) happened with the Hyatt Recency Walkway Collapse. Thankfully, this issue was caught beforehand and no one died.

@@VillaCarrington I had the same thought but you have to atleast understand that in these types of videos they lead to you the final conclusion on what went wrong in a somewhat straight path way.

@Hao Tu this made me laugh more than it should have

And he mispronounces more than a couple words.

He only had about 10 seconds until they yelled "Action" and someone pointed out that he hadn't trimmed his nose hairs or showered. Suddenly he was reliving a dream from his childhood where he was sitting in class in only his underwear. He deserves some congratulations for keeping it all together.

He seems like he's on a lot of prescription opioids

He’s Passionate in what he does

@All Rice Impossible. You *are* cancer.

@@salaciousBastard nah seriously man, gave what??? lol

@@goodgamist5113 If it's cutting off my comment just go to the page instead of reading in the side bar. Otherwise, I don't know what you're talking about.

@@salaciousBastard This is why you need to use punctuation marks...

and why?

@@weiichnich9677 if you make a mistake, especially one that could cause death like this one, you should tell people right away not try to come up with a fix alone.

@@weiichnich9677 It’s a notion that puts the dignity of the person over solving the problem. If you think you have a solution, certainly bring it; but otherwise, do not hesitate to drop your pride and admit to the issue with honestly and humility.

@@maxwellclark1615 ok thanks makes sense

Yup, tell everyone about your mistake then, collectively, work on a solution.

No she doesn't. Pointing something out doesn't mean you should be rewarded. That means I deserve a million dollars for all safety issues I have pointed out in my life.

@@jungleambience5355 You’re stupid

@@jungleambience5355 Probably there were several other professionals and students who could have pointed out all those issues too. Many times people don't point out such issues unless they have been asked or paid to do so.

Seriously. I mean, of course I would want to know, what kind of idiot question is that!

Scrolling down to find this comment. I cant believe that he thinks it's right to hide something like this. Building should have been evacuated and repairs should be done day and night if possible to make the building safer as soon as possible.

Is he related to Fauci??

@@freespeechyep7417 what?

@@samhansen9771 Not you, I’m talking about the guy who built the building. He was trying to hide a very serious issue that could have killed lots of people. That’s what Fauci did with the virus he knew a lot about and he didn’t want us to know

Nah, he was worried about ruining his reputation bet he retired before coming clean

Being terrified to hurt and kill people is a good start though:p

He probably waited 20 years cuz that's the statute of limitations. They kept it secret to keep from getting sued.

@@wolfhors3_660 But doesn't that makes it a conspiracy to defraud?

@@cocharles563 - You ask "But doesn't that makes it a conspiracy to defraud?" That's an interesting question. Who would they be defrauding? He contacted the insurance company for the building. So they weren't being defrauded. They FAILED to inform the people working in the building. But those workers didn't suffer an easily provable loss of income or anything. Can you charge someone with fraud for not telling you your life might be in danger? I'm sure there's good legal remedies for such a situation, but I don't think fraud is likely to be one of them. You COULD perhaps argue they were defrauding the insurance companies covering surrounding buildings, by not warning them. But even then I think Citicorp's own insurance company would be on the hook, not the other insurance companies.

You'd think with the amount of parse errors software developers cause every day, they'd have a little less hubris.

I think what you are seeing is a combination of someone who is temperamentally closed minded, and also high in disagreeability. In other words, they won't listen to you, and they want to "win'. Throw a bunch of people like that into a group and you can also get group think. When these kinds of people are making things that could endanger people you inevitably end up with a disaster. It's so important to listen to dissenting voices, and foster a work environment which encourages people to say "This is wrong" without getting their head bit off.

I worked at a very large software company at one time. I saw engineers do things that make you wonder about the fate of humanity. Dismissing people outright was not at all uncommon. Management wasn't much better. I remember comparing what was being said in meetings to what our company was testifying to before a judge and I was like "Man these two things don't match up at all." Some of the managers were in the running for the largest anal aperture of the year award every single year. Then there was the flat out ignorance. We had competing platforms supported in our building. Two OS titans fighting it out. Our company made one and another company made the other but we made bank of software for both. My office was on a main hallway on the way to a cafeteria and just before the group that worked on software for the competing OS. I would hear people talking as they walked by and they would see the other groups offices and laugh and then say the most ignorant things I've ever heard. It got so bad I would shut my door even though it would then cause my office to warm to crazy high temps. I preferred the heat over total dumbasses.

1) I recall someone saying decades ago (A car manufacturing executive who just got criticized?) that software developers would be in trouble if they were liable for all their bugs. 2) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-H2tuKiiznsY.html said the reason for the 787 crashes was the need to raise the engines partially above the wings because it didn't have as much ground clearance as the Airbus A320. It caused the plane to nose up during full thrust too much needing software to counteract it, but software overcorrected. Regardless, management was criminally negligent for not going all out to investigate and fix the problem if possible after the first crash.

These are all great comments. I've worked since 2005 on contracts at a very large software company you all know. All the hubris, idiocy, base ignorance and emotional responses you all describe have been on full display. It's the most unnerving combination of Dilbert, Hitchhiker's Guide, and Swift I never thought possible. Grandstanding, refusing to listen, tantrums, everything done in a panicked rush to make up time from all the mistakes and bad assumptions made previously because everything is done in a panicked rush. But since we're all geniuses and the best in the world, we never make mistakes, so there's no need to question assumptions or, uh, do research. I've been offered fulltime jobs twice and, to their astonishment, declined. When asked why, I said I just wanted a job, not to join a cult.

Basically he made the building more unstable by moving the legs closer together. Imagine doing this to a square table.

Yep, i saw it immediately. The base stress from the wind-induced bending moment would be significantly higher since its area was reduced. But i don’t know anything about building design, so not really sure why stiffening the structure would help? And also not sure what kind of church that was?! 😂🤣

I'd much rather know a building is unsafe than hiding it from the public. I'm sorry but if that building is at risk of falling especially in new York where 9/11 occured. They should take it very seriously. After all if they don't look what happened in Florida. You know how many lives could've been saved if the tenants were informed of the problems at hand and set up in motels and hotels until the building is safe? Same thing could've happened there. Evacuate the building and the closest buildings that are at risk relocate people in motels and hotels there are plenty enough in NYC to relocate everyone. And if there isn't enough room in hotels and shit they can make accomodations for the people with the red cross. People deserve to know what's going on in there building. I'd much rather be sleeping in a plastic tent in a parking garage with only urinals around and portable showers and sink than being living in a building at risk of falling it took the welders 3 months to finish everything because they could only work at night you'd only put people out of there apartment for at most a month is the welders union can have people there around the clock . 8 hours a day is very minimal work when it comes to the shit they did. So 3 months is reasonable for only at night work but think how much faster this could've been fixed and don't properly. Who knows what these guys missed in the middle of the night tired as hell. No one knows until an issue comes up

@@leviwooten3795 I agree, little nitpick tho. People in the Florida condo did know but it seems a small minority didnt want to pay for the repairs so the repair plan was delayed and the building collapsed before they could ever begin.

@@leviwooten3795 I'm not saying it was right to withhold the information. I'm saying that the decision to hide it can't be placed solely on LeMessurier. People higher up than himself likely made the call. He went along with it.

He who makes mistakes like that should do nothing. -me

That must mean doing nothing is not a mistake

Your comment is pointless, it’s not about making mistakes. It’s about covering up those mistakes when you know a building is unsafe. Should have kept the building empty while the works were carried out. If you don’t realise this you shouldn’t be an engineer.

@@mattpoker85 it's called a joke, are you always this passionate about failed architecture?

@@donnythedingo But that, too, is a choice, a choice to waste your life, like the servant who buried his talent, and was told he was wicked. Have a good day!

I bet netflix would buy it too

People connected to netflix

Irrelevant side-note: apart from the pronunciation, if look at spelling only it could be thought of as being a French word, but "mesurier" (not "messurier" as spelled in this video) doesn't exist as a word in the dictionary (that I'm aware of).

It actually means "The Messanger."

Truuuueee

True.

Nope. Integrity fail. If your boss or the government tells you to do something illegal or immoral, it is on you.

@Freedom ForAll! Most states have laws to protect you from that actually, especially if they threaten you to be fired if you don’t comply.

No, he let them shoulder the burden when he should've been proactive in all areas of the problem and solution. Integrity. It's a thing.

What were the predicted common wind speeds during those 3 months of repair? It may have been low risk during that time, I agree that it was better to avoid hysteria and simply get the job done. I do think the information should have been released earlier after the project was completed, a year at most in my opinion, not 20. EDIT: spelling and grammar adjustments.

Definitely. That's why they have that welders head to keep everyone in check.

they most likely didn’t know how serious was the potential problem, like it might fall if a diagonal wind of over 70 mph hits the building.

James Parus nice Skx

I imagine they may have had suspicions but I doubt anyone knew conclusively what was going on. The cat would have gotten out of the bag if they did, and hell would have been raised.

A typical welder conversation is as such; fucking engineers. Always fixing engineers mistakes 🙄

Jesus, take a breath. It is an open question whether Hartley was the student to begin with. Apparently a male student beat her to the punch, according to other accounts of the story. In fact, many specifics in this video are disputed, including whether or not the architect even knew that substituted materials had been used, without which there would not have been a problem. Also the wind issue, mentioned here as 70 MPH but elsewhere as 75 MPH, is an extremely rare occurrence in NYC, despite what this video said. It is estimated at being a once per 16 year occurrence, or perhaps 55 year, or even 700 year. I don't know, but in more than 40 years of living in NYC, I sure don't remember ever having winds of 60 MPH or above. This is hardly a clear and settled matter.

@@jimwerther I was curious about the wind speeds in NYC as I am a wind turbine tech. 60-70mph gusts happened at least three times in NYC in 2020 from what I saw on various news websites, so those conditions do not seem to be as rare as you claim. However, regardless of the likelihood of extreme wind when it was built, it doesn’t surprise me that Lameasure or whatever his name is did not give much credit to the college student that caught his mistake..majority of people in high positions such as himself are usually egotistical a-holes.

Not clear cut and settled but you seem to make the case that she wasn't when just about every story points the fingers to Diane. She's seems to be a wonderful person by all accounts. She's never tried to claim that she "knew" this was a problem. For her, it was an inquiry to help her reconcile what were likely her shortcomings on her calculations. She wasn't looking to say, "you screwed up", but rather, to say, "please help me understand why my calculations are giving me numbers that are greater than yours." She even openly admits to NEVER haven spoken to to him directly. It's likely his recollection failed him. He likely spoke to his junior engineer, Weinstein, who spoke to LeMessurier and hence, the mistaken gender identity in his recollection. My point IS that any humble and ethical human being, after having been through such an ordeal WOULD HAVE taken the time to track down the student to thank him/her. This was no minor thing. This was a MAJOR disaster averted and the design flaws were not minor. LeMessurier and everyone involved knew this. THEY ALL OWED a debt of gratitude to "THE" student. Her questioning likely saved tens of thousands of lives and averted both a humanitarian and economic crisis. How many people would have died? How many companies would have filed for bankruptcy. How many people would have gone to jail. You seem to downplay this threat because you've lived there for 40 years and don't ever recall 70mph wind. Did you actually do any research on this? Oh yeah, that's right, your recollection is more important than actual factual data. LesMessurrier, unlike you, actually did. And THAT us why he made the decisions he did. He was FORCED to concede defeat because he KNEW the dangers were VERY,VERY real. He DID NOT want blood on his hands so he did the ONLY thing he could do--FIND A FIX AND GET IT DONE ASAP! To his credit, his original designs did call for welded connections but a request to change by Bethlehem Steel was made and approved by his firm. Unlike you, in my line of work as a design manager and lead designer for engineered components for residential and commercial buildings, I have seen structures fail catastrophically due to wind. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME! I have personally been out to look at and access these failures and you know what the biggest issue is? The biggest issue are people with your mentality! "It's a beuatiful day, there's no chance in hell a strong gust is gonna show up". Guess what, in the span of 15 mins, I was witness to the aftermath of a total collapse of a roof structure. A storm rolled in on a perfect day and leveled it. The builder didn't bother to brace everything properly because "it was a beatiful day" and like you, he was banking on his personal experience so he left it unbraced. Upon his return 15 mins later, his structure was on the ground. I see this over and over from people with your mentality. YOU DON'T BET LIVES on a 1/16 chance or on your personal recollections! That's what the statistical data said about how often winds of this magnitude occurred in NYC. In engineering circles, YOU DON'T GO TO THE BANK ON SUCH NUMBERS! Even 1 in 100 years, you don't sleep well on for structures of this magnitude and here you are rebuttling using your lived experience on wind conditions in NYC. When it potentially could involves tens of thousands of lives, YOU WANT BETTER A BETTER THAN 1/16 CHANCE! The wind forces acting on a structure of this size are immense! I have worked with and corrected many an engineer and architect and most are humble enough to thank you when you help them. The magnitude of this design flaw is so great that ALL parties involved SHOULD have tracked down that student and given her, AT THE VERY LEAST, a "Thank you." NO one acknowledged her contributions. As to your statement about another student beating her to it, really? Where did you get that from? The ENQUIRER? I guess "inquiring minds" like yours wants to know so instead of going with every major story that points the finger at Dianne, you'd rather go with some other version that will fit benefit your position. Really? How many engineering schools are in New Jersey? What are the odds that two students were told by their advisors to go and research this one building out of the many thousands of buildings out there? And what are the chances that they came to this same conclusion AND contacted LeMessurier's firm about? What are the odds that TWO random New Jersey undergrads did ALL of these things and the other just happened to beat Dianne to the punch? I get it...I get it! You did the math...1/16! You like those odds. Unfortunately, your odds are a bit flawed like the design of this building. With all the info available, DIANNE IS THE STUDENT, SHE IS "HE"! To paraphrase her advisor at Princeton, "I know all the engineering schools in New Jersey. I know all the heads of those departments and i contacted them all. None of them said it was one of their students. The student invquestion is you, Dianne!" Give credit where credit is due. You choose to ignore ALL THE FACTS that point to her and then back that up with what? What evidence do you have that says it wasn't she who was the one? LeMessurier's words? Like I said, he's an egotistical POS! His words don't mean a thing because he was part of a grand conspiracy to conceal this from the public eye. It's not like he openly came out about this of his own accord! It's only after he was asked directly by a reporter that he confirmed the events. HE KNEW, THERE WAS NO COVERING IT UP. Too many people knew so he had no choice but to be upfront about it. The point you don't get is, regardless of whether it was Dianne or not, given the gravity of the situation, CREDIT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN BUT IT WASN'T AND HAS NEVER BEEN GIVEN. All the big shots in the know, especiallyLeMessurier should have tracked this student down from the start! As a matter of fact, LeMessurier's firm should have offered her employment for her contribution!

@@neosozavac I am not an engineer, just a guy from what is likely the windiest neighborhood in NYC (Washington Heights). Please do not use this video as an authoritative version of the story. If you read up on the history, this gets much more complicated, confusing, and contradictory. You can start with the New Yorker article of 1995, although there are plenty of updates afterward. Generally speaking, though, LeMessurier seems to have received very positive reactions across the board.

@@charliebingaman571 I don't remember the numbers, but Sandy hit New York far harder that Isaias (sp?) did, yet even Sandy was no longer a hurricane when it reached NYC. I walked down to the lighthouse, right at the edge of the Hudson, during Sandy, and I really don't remember winds nearly that strong.

This video greatly overstates the probability of 75 (not 70) MPH winds in NYC, which basically never happens, not even close.

@@jimwerther Hurricane Sandy brought sustained winds of 70 + mph to NYC not that long ago.

@@jimwerther How improbable? Once in 5 years? 10years? 20? these building stand for 60+ years. If they collapse casualties can be in the hundreds just from the falling debris, never mind considering the fully occupied case.

@@lorizoli It was repaired in 3 months after finding the problem (according to the video), so once every 5 years is quite low in that regard (even though "low probability" is not always the main concern when human life are in danger).

I don't know where you guys are from but NYC gets 70 mph winds every year. Sustained long enough to cause the building to fail? That I'm not sure of...

He just transposed two consonants, at least he had the correct number of syllables..

seems like he just stumbled with it, happens to anyone like typos

NextWorldVR No he didn’t. E-van-ji-kul is missing a syllable

Maybe he's a Catholic? (Tongue in cheek)

I knew one who always mispronounced "perpendicular." It always came out as "permendigalar." It was so annoying.

mohamad al-shboul How about the female undergrad who alerted EVERYONE involved to the potential problem? Should she get any credit?