A thought raising debate on why the negativity towards duplication of model locomotives is just silly. And the reasons we should enjoy the fact we’re getting two Class 60 models.
Unpopular thought: Collusion between manufacturers to divide the market by avoiding duplication would be illegal cartel behaviour that could result in prosecution. Customers need to adjust their expectations that manufacturers should be doing this, because they really shouldn't.
I agree at the end of the day they are competitors not friends and wouldn’t share project ideas. Thank you for your comment and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
What people fail to relies is Accurascale have been working on their Class 60 behind the scenes now for nearly 2 years, way before the Cavalex model was announced.
Hi Alex, precisely the point of this video is that I think a lot of people forget how long it takes for a model company to make a model go from a CAD drawing to manufacture to getting signed off, to being mass produced, packaged and then shipped to the consumer. It’s a hell of a long time and like I said in the video the heads of these companies aren’t going down the pub to discuss what they’re all doing it just doesn’t happen and as Dave from Dean Park pointed out is actually illegal for them to do so as well. Thanks for the comment and hope you enjoyed the video! 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways thanks mate I did enjoy it. I’ll subscribe now. I’m new to model railways, so maybe I can get some good tips from you 😁. Keep up the good work. Btw, I also have a (very small) channel documenting my new hobby. Take a look if you get a minute. It’s called The Red Line Model Railway. All the best, Jason.
You haven't missed the Cavalex class 60, they are still open to pre-orders (as of 9th July 2024) from the likes of Rails of Sheffield. You won't be disappointed with the Accurascale class 60 though. Having looked over both models at DEMU they are both very good indeed. I think Cav edges it, but not by a large enough margin for it to matter to most purchasers.
I think it may be more that Cavalex have a limited product range right now and therefore need their new product to be a success or they disappear out of business, which we consumers currently don't want. Usually more manufacturers helps to produce competition as well as wider product ranges. The market share available will reduce with another market player joining the space. In other cases where this can happen, competitors (Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan) have a wider product range to compete within the market as a whole and sometimes the manufacturer is producing a different offering in terms of detail/age/liveries/price etc and that is when we can celebrate the competition more.
I couldn’t agree more, once these brands make a name for themselves which they are both doing a cracking job they will definitely get the foot well in the door. It will only be a matter of time until one takes on the big boys but I can’t wait for that day and wish them the best of luck. Here’s to celebrating completion. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
The best class 47, yes, by a country mile. The best UK outline locomotive though, that's a tough tie between the Cavalex class 56 and the Sutton Locomotive Works class 25.
It takes a hell of a long time to get a model to market and you won't get much agreement amongst manufacturers about what they produce. And why would anyone get angry ?? Choice is a great thing for the consumer surely ? Just a fact of life with business I'm afraid
Simply I have no idea why people are so angry, I get disappointment but from what I saw on the Friday when it was announced on Accurascale’s pages as well as various forums there was a lot of hate been spread about the project. However I did see some excitement in there to but I would say for every excited post I saw two to three more negative posts. I’m certainly one who if I can get both I’d happily have them but am more excited to see the exclusive livery’s they will announce in due time. Thanks for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
In his interview on The Monday club, New Junction talked about all the work that goes into a model before they even get to the engineering prototype. About 3 years work. 3D scanning an actual class 60. Then scaling it down, remember OO is not a straight reduction from life size, so compromise has to be made to get a model looking realistic. Which is many 100's of hours of CAD work. Then the engineering prototype can be produced before the the factory gets the green light to make the tooling for the production version that ends up on your model railway. About 3 and half years from idea to model in the shop. So Accurascale have not just copied Cavalex or vice versa.
That’s precisely the point of making this video is to stop the needless hate and anger for duplicates as the complexity of what goes into them and the time to manufacture them is so great that there’s no way a model manufacturer can copy another it’s just coincidence. Thank you for your comment and insight and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
This is why it happened and I can prove it using a bit of logic and a calendar, Cavalex announced their model around Feb of 2023. At this point they had some CAD models and No physical model. Already they will have spent quite a while working on this, but the thing about manufacturing is it takes time, from Starting the CAD model to modellers getting a model it takes about 3-4 years. Cavalex had probably already spent a year on this. As it stand right now on the 28/06/2024 they are saying "expected delivery date of Q4 2024". I reckon December, just before Christmas but it might get pushed back. Why did they accounce it in Feb of 2023? Funding; they need the cash flow and Pre-orders allows them to buy tooling and start the long production chain going. Accurascale Announced there Class 60 around about the 7th June 2024, with a decorated sample, they were much further along in the development process when they announced the model. Accurascale are saying Q1 of 2025. Why are Accurascale announcing this so close to the delivery date?; because they are bigger, cash flow is no longer as much of an issue, and they have moved from announcing the model years away from the release to a few months away from release, They have said this in an interview With Jennifer Kirk on her channel. You can go listen to all the reason they give there if you care. So the models are going to release within a few months of each other, in manufacturing time this is very close. Cavalex and Accurascale probably just thought to do it at the same time. No one is copying anyone else, and there are differences in the model and sound of each model. Also Hornby have a nice CLass 60 as well, so we have 3 decent models of the class 60 now, this is good, as it means competition and more Liveries. You want this and the hobby needs competition or we end up with only 3-4 manufactures all comfortably pumping out crap as they know they can get away with it.
Couldn’t have said it any better really, it’s the whole point of me making this video to highlight that manufacturers cannot copy each other, they have no idea what each other is doing and most likely just have the same idea. The class 60 makes sense for both their ranges as they have rolling stock to match. I for one am looking forward to seeing both renditions and have actually got one from both companies on preorder. I have a Cavalex Class 60 from key model world in the DC rail ‘Ben Nevis’ livery and have just ordered Rails of Sheffield special Accurascale EWS British steel blue ‘Tees steel express’ livery so looking forward to getting my hands on both. Thank you for the comment and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
At the end of the day that is business, those who drive the negativity need to think about just how long it takes and the amount of work that goes into these projects. To say a company is coping another is absolutely ridiculous. This is one of the reasons I keep away from forums etc, yes there are valid comments and opinions but for me to much misinformation and lack of understanding.
It’s possibly where a lot of the anger and hate comes from is simply being misinformed or the lack of knowledge on how long these projects take to go from an idea to a design to a working model and maybe if everyone realised that there would be less hate towards manufacturers. I for one cannot wait for both to come out and if I can get my hands on both I will. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
Yeah I'm disappointed too. I have a Cavalex Class 60 on order because I was so impressed with the Cavalex Class 56's having purchased 5, the Class 60 should be as good.
I think that is were my initial disappointment came from is the fact I already have a cavalex class 60 ordered. However having time to reflect whilst making this video I am happy we have options to choose from and with so many liveries to pick from I’m sure the majority will find a class 60 they like from either manufacturer. Glad you are enjoying your class 56’s sounds like quite the fleet I’m gutted I missed out. Will have to pick one up on the next run they do. Thank you for commenting hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway yes I’ve heard about this feature and it can make co-co locomotives less likely to derail on inclines like a helix it’s the main reason I made sure to pre order the class 60 as I am worried that a few of my stock won’t be able to make it down the helix without issue so may end up keeping them up top permanently
I wonder if Accurscale decided to make the class 60 because the class 92 they released in 2023 shares similar tooling both body shell and chassis which allows them to reuse tooling to a degree and reduce production cost.... 😊
This could be a very interesting point, this could be why they have chosen it as it would be more profitable if they can reuse some of their existing tooling. Thanks for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
The Cavalex loco was announced at the Model Rail Scotland Show in February 2023 (16 months ago) and order books opened so not just a couple of months earlier. What I will say is that after we went to tooling and announced the Cavalex one we were made aware that AS had been working on one but they weren't at the tooling stage yet. Take that as you will.
Sorry that’s me getting confused you are correct they were announced a lot earlier, it’s me getting mixed up with seeing the production samples. Interesting to hear that AS carried on with the project knowing both cavalex and Hornby had products out. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
The ESU class 66 in HO & the Trix / Marklin class 66, 2 superlative models & when you see them , could you even tell them apart? The only difference is which axles have the traction tyres on. If i was in the market for a new 60 then a Cavalex one would be more appealing with its 4 axle drive, just wish they'd go the full monty & apply full HO methodology & fit the traction tyres as they make for a smoother running model. I do feel a bit sorry for Cavalex , but in the pursuit of the juicy low hanging fruit some toes are bound to get stepped on. I think Dapol & Revolution have called things better with the 88/323 & 93/320-321, time to move away from the old big hitters & produce the 'build it & they will come' stuff, the Siemens 185 desiro / Royal Mail 325 / Leyland 155 being obvious candidates.
See now that's not true at all, as we informed 'the market' (and specifically your funder for this model) way back in mid 2022. Had we not been at tooling, it would be pretty reckless for us to keep going to launch.
@@mccarronfamily Well that's absolutely not true because for one we don't have a backer for the model (I have no idea why that lie is being spread on social media) so how you could have spoken to them I have no idea as they don't exist and for two it was directly your director who came and spoke to us at Glasgow and told us you weren't in tooling yet and neither of us prior to that weekends announcement had any idea of the other ones interest in the class 60. So yes I agree it was pretty reckless to keep going to launch.
@@outonroad We'll just have to agree to disagree on the timeline, as I want to protect those we informed. I've genuinely no idea why there would be any animosity, let alone spreading of falsehoods and nonsense. We are all here with the same basic philosophy in what we're trying to do as small companies and we have stepped aside in the past where we had honest comms, but here it was. simply too late, we did however, as agreed with those 'funders' / backers / call it what you will, stall our launch over 18 months.
I think the frustration with duplication or in this case triplication is that instead of having two or three models of the same prototype, even if they are different liveries, a different prototype could have been chosen so we have two different locos instead of one! That said there are few if any prototypes that have yet to be modelled. You have to ask though, given Accurascale have the 12 wheel chassis that has been used for the 92 and 89, why they don't do the Class 99. Bound to be popular.
Yes it certainly is hard to look at when there are three models on the market two yet to be released but coming out at similar times. But at the same time both Accurascale and Cavalex will have had their projects for the Class 60 in development for years, it just so happened Cavalex launched theirs first but by that time I imagine Accurascale will have invested in the tooling or enough money that they need to release the model to earn back the investment. However I do think having the tooling for these locos does open the door for similar classes of locos for either company to follow up next and hopefully we don’t have another race for the finish line when their new locos are launched. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
I find it all confusing! I thought that we already knew about the class 60 from Accurascale, but I was confusing it with the Cavalex model,.... So now the question is, which one do I go with?
From what I can see tooling wise they are near identical with detail it’s more I would say if you have inclines on your layout the Cavalex has a floating middle axel which from what I’ve seen preform better in that department, but it’s not always the case with Co-Cos so I’d say go for the livery you like the best. I personally have already ordered a Cavalex class 60 and if I can will be ordering an Accurascale class 60. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
Every diesel class has be covered now so companies have got to think which ones really need a revision, ones that have only been released once, and with perhaps, a flaw. Still waiting for a 25/0,personally,most likely it'll be Bachmann,if it ever comes
Eventually someone will retool them I’m sure there’s lots out there that need a good updated tooling or there’s a gap in the market for two to be on sale at the same time, thanks for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
It should be noted that Cavalex were the first to demonstrate an EP, working models and also the first with livery samples. Not by much mind you. Accurascale were not far behind in showcasing their livery samples, so its safe to assume that given design and tooling lead times that both models will have been in development for some time prior to Cavalex announcing theirs. On the strength of models previously produced by both manufacturers, both of these are going to be very capable models. I have had issues with trackholding of the Accurascale class 37, I have three which all behave the same, and that is something unique to that model. I would expect their class 60 to have a near identical drivetrain as the class 92 though, which was fine. I will say though that Cavalex's class 56 is probably the best UK outline diesel yet produced, excepting maybe the SLW class 25. After viewing both models at DEMU a few weeks ago, I would venture that Cavalex have the edge, but only just. And in either case, the end customer is not going to be disappointed with either model. My pre-order is with Cavalex, but as with their class 56 I expect availability to be limited once the models land. I have no issue what so ever in buying an Accura 60 if I wanted a second Tug, but given the choice I'd go with Cav for now purely based on how good previous products have been. Its going to come down to how good the DCC sound profiles are, and as we've not yet heard either manufacturers end product yet, its anyones game. Cavs class 56 sound interface is market leading by a massive margin though, so Accurascale are really going to have to play catch up in this area.
Hi Simon, you make some really great points and interesting to hear some issues you’ve had with Accurascale models over the Cavalex. I will be interested to find out as I have one from each on pre order so will be doing a comparison. But personally the Cavalex will have to be better with the £20 increase in price over Accurascale. Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
I have Class 60 engines by HORNBY..therefore there is no need for me to buy new ones ! Greetings from Germany ! Duplication means in business that the engines may stay at the model store until they are reduced in price as it is done in Germany !!
That is true to many duplicates means that for us we could grab a bargain. Thanks for the comment and hope you enjoyed the video. Awesome to know my videos have reached you in Germany! 😊👍
Duplication is nothing new in 00, had back in 1981 with the Lima HST, Mainline & Lima announced class 42/43 warship at the same time, Lima & Hornby announcing the class 52 Western at the same time, then the they both announced a class 92 at the same time. Lima also announced a class 90/91 as Hornby had theirs delayed by a year, but Lima pulled the projects. The problem we have now is that the main three are all chasing the juicy low hanging fruit, the 31/37/47/50/56/60/66 all offering the perfect fit of lots of liveries , lots of differences within the fleets, lots of nice ltd runs / whip up the collectors - hype frenzy. Dont bet against a 58 being next for a retool from Cavalex or Accurascale. Models take around 2-3 years from start to seeing it on a retailers shelf. With Cavalex you are geting 4 axle drive & Accurascale you get 6 axle drive so you are getting a bit of a choice. Just got to brace ourselves for the deluge of videos comparing the 2 or the Hornby one as well. As for me , 5 Lima ones that have been doing the job for the past 34 years , which offer the railway modelling alternative of doing them up yourself with the array of bits you can get hold of, so everybodys well covered. For those of us who been doing this for far to long it is amusing seeing all the froth on various social media channels as the new entrants start treading on each others toes & the brand loyalty kick in.
I think you have a great point maybe these locos with their abundance of livery options are just a safe bet and especially safe for smaller model companies. I’m sure in time they will take more of a chance on more obscure locos but obviously for now they need that steady cash flow. Thank you for commenting some great point and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
I have a couple of Cavalex 60's on order but the choice of liveries did not appeal as I would be duplicating Hornby 60's I already have while IMO is still a great model and have had faultless running from these. I have ordered an Accurascale 60 as their liveries appealed more to me with the Transrail and Mainline versions. What I would like to see is more competition in the modern image DMU market. At the moment, Bachmann produce the likes of 150, 158/159, 220/221 Hornby do a 153 and previous a 155. Realtrack do a superb 156 and are also due to realise a 142 at some point. and EFE have 143/144. Question: Is this the Realtrack tooling? The prices for these have become ridiculously expense, and you have no choice, really. Revolution Train are producing a 175 and 180 order some of these already. What about the brilliant 185 TPE. Why hss noboby done this. Also the 800 class hybrids only Hornby doing these and charging a fortune. Also, the market seems to lack track maintenance equipment like tampers and general Network rail rolling stock. Would love to see more of this.
Some really valid points, I’m sure some manufactures will eventually get round to doing more DMU’s and the BMU’s but I can speak on the class 800 that is is fantastic, really well built, runs well and has a load of lighting features even on DC. Thanks for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
Well considering Hornby’s was tooled in 2005 I don’t see how it will compare in detail to these newer tooled renditions from Cavalex and Accurascale. That’s not to say Hornby’s is a bad model just not as up to date as these
Now we can actually see a bit of competition between manufacturers, rather than putting up with 20+ year tooling, been slightly been altered (repaint, going over to 21 pin, LED lighting etc) manufacturers will have to wake up and up their game, or reinvent themselves. The only winner here, is us the consumer, with more choice than ever before. As an example, the new tool Heljan 47... imagine if that is all we had? Bachmann 47 is far more superior and accurate.
It’s a very optimistic view on things it’s kind of refreshing. Maybe it will make manufacturers up their game more and definitely the Bachmann class 47 is amazing in comparison to Heljan’s. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
The people who are moaning, would moan about duplication if Accurascale or any other manufacturer did an HST \ class 43, 08 shunter etc because they want their own bespoke choice which has little demand. If there was demand for these other locos a.n.other manufacturer would have spotted the gap and filled it. The moaners would then moan about the price being asked for their limited demand loco. It's as simple as that. There's nothing wrong with mulitple choice manufacturers for the same loco class.
Think you have a very valid point, maybe everyone should be thankful for what we are getting and that we have the choice to choose. Great comment and thank you for watching 😊👍
I can understand the frustration in this case. Particularly as Hornby’s 60 was an extremely nice model already. There are other locos, and multiple units that have never been available RTR, or are in desperate need of updating.
@@tjfSIM I’m sure some of these manufacturers when they have a steady income from safer projects will put out some more riskier obscure locos it’s only a matter of time 😊👍
I would assume that the HST is being worked on by Bachmann…. After all it doesn’t take much additional slides/work to take the HST prototype, and have it ready for all the production versions…
There may be some differences in specification. Accurascale looks to have a driven centre axle on each bogie whereas Cavalex's is described as floating. That could mean that Cavalex's is better on smaller setrack layouts but Accurascale's has better haulage. Not that 4-axle driven locos ever have traction problems with a realistic load nowadays. We've got 2 Hornby 60s currently so I'll wait and see which one gets the best reviews.
Yes looking at the specifications that is the only major difference, cosmetically they do look very similar quality wise. I think if you’re on the fence that would be the best way as with them due to release at a similar time point I’m sure there will still be plenty to go round as you’re not the only one holding back ordering. Thanks for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
@@mccarronfamily that’s interesting to know going forward as I am wanting to convert to DCC but knowing there DC locos come with all that fitted as well it swaying me to get some Accurascale locos, thank you 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways The Cavalex 60 will have a removeable panel on the roof with dip switches for DC operation so you can use the full lighting suite without removing the loco from the track. I don't think this is going to be an easy choice.
Great to hear you’ve had a positive experience, it shows great promise that the class 60 will be as great to. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
I had one, realised the bogies were actually in the wrong positon, confirmed by cavalex (and the roof colour was wrong, which was denied by them) so sold it. It's a nice first model, but if your attention to detail can't get the bogies in the right place, and you have to bully customers online who have issues, then it's a no from me mate.
@@jamesthatcher4190 Well as explained the bogie position issue was a factory error at the production stage not an attention to detail error on our part which was too late to correct before the first run arrived but it still fell within prototype spec in any case (it was 1mm out). Hardly an earth shattering mistake and no worse than more critical visual errors seen on other models recently from other manufacturers with the locomotives very faces themselves. There was no bullying online, the issue was explained by us to everyone, example of real locos shown with bogies in the same position as ours, showing that it wasn't unheard of to see them like that and everyone but you were ok with the explanation. You then still persisted to go to every avenue of social media to inform the whole world of the error and exaggerating it to be 3mm out, almost as if there was some agenda at play. Very odd all that.
I am going to be honest here. I did buy one of the Cavalex Models Class 56 and it had a jammed gear tower and the sheer amount of flack I got back in January for calling out the bad quality on the mechanism. I am actually glad that Accurascale are doing a Class 60 and I have cancelled my orders for the Cavalex Models Class 60 because they seem to don't care about their customers and I just got ignored and falsely accused of putting their model down because of its 4 axle drive in terms of their Class 56. I will have a couple of Accurascale Class 60's to displace my Hornby models in due course but I now model in O Gauge and the community in O gauge is so much better and there is no stinking attitude in O gauge either. Heljan are the only ones that make an O Gauge Class 60 for the time being and I hope that Accurascale will do an O gauge one in the future if they see a viable market for it. However this hate and infighting really needs to stop. What happened to the days of rational debates and agree to disagree? I can handle debate but I will not be ripped apart by losers in the process. My advice to anyone in terms of the Class 60 is buy the one that suits you best and make sure you are happy with your decision. Nothing else really matters.
I’m sorry to hear that your Cavalex Class 56 had quality issues but even more sorry that you’ve had to endure so much hate and negativity simply for not being happy with your model. This is the trouble with not just the modelling community but the world I think is that you can have a different opinion and not be subject to hate. On the other hand I’m glad you’ve found a community where you feel happy and can assure you that not all OO gauge modellers are like those you’ve had the displeasure of talking to, there plenty of good ones out there 😊 thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
Let's put this into perspective, we told you what the issue was and that you should have gotten in contact with us as soon as you had an issue and we would have sorted the problem for you under warranty. Instead you made a you tube video accusing the issue as simply being a poor hauler due to it being 4 axle drive and then sold your loco without ever getting in touch with us first. The issue was nothing to do with it being 4 axle drive but a loose gear tower cover. When fitted correctly the Cavalex class 56 with out pull a hornby 6 axle drive 56. We offered to help but you instead had a bee in your bonnet about 4 axle drive.
@@YorkshireRailways There is great people on here and I appreciate them and I appreciate your reply. I learned from my mistakes and I am happy that I have moved over to O gauge. I will be announcing Hermes Road in due course on my channel. Please keep up the great work mate.
@@outonroad I am not here to argue and I have learned a very harsh lesson not to buy on hyperbole. I am now with O gauge and it is the best move I have ever made. RMWeb can keep its slanging matches to itself because I for one am done with haters and OO gauge. Except for a couple of models I am keeping/getting which is about it. "It's okay to make a mistake - just don't do it again - Henry Ford"
@BritishRail60062 I am not hee to argue either, however you made a statement that put our company in bad light and I wanted to address the situation and show people that we are very willing to help. We pride ourselves on our customer service and have had nothing but praise regarding the way we treat our customers. It seems that you are the only one that has had any complaints, which is fine, if you felt like you weren't heard then that is your point of view however you never contacted us when you had issues and we would have certainly been able to help but instead started an online abuse campaign towards us. Again stating the same unwarranted accusations on this videos comments.
My initial thought but when you delve into things you can see that no manufacture can know what the others are doing until it’s to late, they obviously are doing research into what people want or are interesting in. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
@@mccarronfamily true but you could a loco could be announced earlier and pre orders be taken when the tooling is complete? That could be a win win on both sides
@@YorkshireRailways Accurascale launched the Class 31 at the start of 2022 - the Bachmann one was announced a few months ago. Announcing early makes no difference, as everyone does their own thing to their own roadmap. Accurascale has made loads of wagons that Class 60's pull (and has more such wagons in the works) so of course that loco is needed for the range.
I don't know why these manufacturers keep having to keep making duplicate models. Why can't they do something no one else has done? How about an Electrostar? Or a Gatwick Express?
Yeah it’s a fine balance of finding a locomotive that the general audience will buy not just a few collectors. Maybe some day someone may make one that you’re looking for. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
I love accurascale and the Cavalex one is only dcc fitted and very expensive. However, I think it is a bad choice for accurascale because Cavalex could help destabilise the larger manufacturers such as bachmann. It is also a bit mean to complete with a smaller manufacturer 😢
There may only be DCC left for preorder on the Cavalex Class 60 but they did have just DC as I have ordered one. And yes I think that’s where the smaller boys need to aim is rather than competing with each other is to look at competing with the big boys. However that said I do think it’s just a coincidence that they both have a Class 60 as they will have been in development for a few years at this point. Thank you for commenting and I hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
The Cavalex one is available as DCC ready, and DCC sound fitted. They are not very expensive. In fact they are very competitively priced, £30 cheaper than the Hornby RRP for a 20 year old model. Accurascale have just simply come in at a lower price to take business from us that's all.
@@outonroad Hard argument to make stick when the accurascale, higher spec 60, is the exact same price as the accurascale 66, Accurascale 37, accurascale 31, etc? The only accurascale locos that are more is the 92, which has two powered pantographs and the 50 which has complex electrics and working fan. Crediting anything cavalex are doing impacting accurascale is nothing short of naive.
@@mccarronfamily That would carry through if you hadn't just two weeks earlier announced a huge wagon price increase on your HTV's that you said was necessary due to the latest increase in manufacturing costs yet the 60 doesn't carry that through conveniently for you. Also the AS 60 is not a higher spec than the Cavalex version by any stretch of the imagination however I am pretty happy to say that £25 cheaper is probably about right looking at the standard of the two models.
@@outonroad As you well know, wagons and locomotives are two very very different animals, with totally different cost bases, investment profiles and popularity with factories. Even using one to compare to another is simply naive. The 60 is the exact same price as all our Class 37s, Class 31, Class 92, Class 66, etc, so likewise, trying to suggest anything 'artificial' about the price point is equally naive, if not a little arrogant. As for specification and sales, the market will decide, as it always does, as to which model is the better rendered, better specified, or more accurate and this more popular.
Well its like OK the are lots of diffrent class 60's to modle but I worry that the market at the top end is saturated the is only so much cash in peoples piggy banks , Its also a shame hat Accurscale are not doing a 08 shunter or class 43 HST with leading and trailling sound , But the big shame is them not doing somthing bang up to date a class 197, or 334 , or even 397 tpe novor , and some retro 1980's stuff a 165 DMU/ 166 or 1960s EMUs at 25 kv 310/312/309 and the slam door 302/04/05 all go with the class 31'/37' etc these are the things we lack with more RTR OHLE kits and stuff out their it has to appen soon ....
Some great point to be made here, who knows maybe next year some of these smaller manufacturers will unveil some bang up to date modern locos. Especially if younger generations are going to get involved. Pete waterman put it best that the young ones don’t want to see steam anymore they want to see stuff they can go out and see in the real world. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
Its an open Market. Companies are not allowed to collude with what models they intend doing. If they are, its illegal. Some companies are closer to each other than they maybe should be. No one moaned when Accurascale duplicated the Class 50, which is a Hornby model too. No one moaned when Cavalex moved in on the Hornby Class 56. And did anyone moan when both Cavalex and Accurascale moved in on Hornby HAA hoppers? So the fan boys of Cavalex and Accurascale need to get a grip and move on. For actual manufacturers to go in the huff with another one because they 'dared' duplicate a model they were working on is also nonsense. Companies and their founders/employees also need to watch what they are putting up on social media too. If anyone should feel aggrieved it should be Hornby....as both companies are nibbling at their range. But as I said, its an open market and any manufacturer can do any model they want if they think it will be profitable. Accurascale 60 is around £25 cheaper. Hornby's DCC Ready one, which is 15-20 years old is still the most expensive. Bachmann, Cavalex, Heljan, Hornby all hype up their models too. its the world of social media! sadly. Good video. Dave (Dean Park)
Hi Dave thank you for the comment and hope you enjoyed the video. I’ve been a huge admirer of your channel for many years so means a lot to have you drop a comment! I think you’ve hit some really important points and the main reason I made this video to highlight the fact that companies cannot converse on what models they have in the works. And certainly that is correct I don’t know why a huge amount of people are moaning about the Class 60 when models are getting duplicated all the time it only seems to be a point of anger for some when the Class 60 was brought into that category. I do agree that the “fan boys” need to relax and just enjoy the hobby at the end of the day everyone can spend their hard earned money on what ever model they like it doesn’t matter so long as you personally are happy. As well as I agree about what I’ve seen in the comment section in the video from clear employees of the companies mentioned and at times does look very unprofessional and in some ways comes off as aggressive towards any negativity said about their said company. Options are opinions you will always have some good, some great and some negative stuff said it’s the way it goes but the responses given can paint an even more negative light over the actual comment. And yes the nature that social media presents itself in being a key factor in everyone’s lives these days it’s only right that all these model companies will use it to their advantage. Building hype and doing a big “mic drop” reveal is just how things go. I for one love these reveals especially when like Accurascale does they focus on just one model and really go to town showing all the bells and whistles it has to offer. Again Dave thank you for the comment it really means a lot, take care and have a great day! 😊👍 Harry (Yorkshire Railways)
All this duplicates of diesel locomotives is pointless, it just reduces the amount of potential sales for all of these manufacturers, there are so many diesel multiple units, electric multiple units and AC electric locos that have never been done yet .
True but as I pointed out in the video these locos will have been in production for 2-3 years at some point a project has had so much invested in it it will have to be made to recoup the cost. The trouble with locos that have never been done is it’s a risk for the smaller companies that if there is no interest or little sales it’s a big risk for them where as the bigger guys could afford to do that. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
C'mon manufacturers where are the 44s/45s/46s ok Backmann make a 45 but it needs a better model, A revamped 40 a Toffee apple 31 A proper 35 42 or 52 who needs 60s?
Seriously? Heljan has released the three Peak classes to go up against Bachmann's (not Backmann, note). The locos aren't hugely popular, certainly when compared to 37, 47, 55 and 50, so no-one is seriously going to consider these. The 40 is only marginally more popular than a Peak and the Bachmann one is actually considered to be pretty decent. As for the hydraulics, the market's been well covered by Dapol, Heljan and Bachmann again. What's the point of this nonsense?
I know I don’t know where it all comes from really. I’ve just come back to the hobby in the last few years and can’t believe how much it’s advanced from when I first got into it. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
Hi, I agree with your opinion about Accurascale and their behaviour, remember the nuclear flask wagons they rushed out to beat Revolution Trains offerings and Bachmann with their class 31 that’s another duplication now the big hype over the class 60 which doesn’t have a great deal of liveries, I have a class 60 made by Hornby which I’m very happy with, why didn’t Accurascale go for the underdeveloped class 08 and the class 43 which Hornby have had no competition with in 00 gauge since Lima days, the class 60 is an easy project in my opinion, why not the class 58 or super detailed class 73, Accurascale is a low volume manufacture that has a quota to achieve so once that’s met we won’t see that item again, I wish Accurascale would have kept the chassis of the class 66 the same as Hatton’s did to take the original EM2 speaker and why not make the dashboard light up like the rest of their locomotives, repeating models in the hobby is not good as other models that could do with a huge upgrade will remain on the shelf for many years, too many manufacturers ignore rolling stock items because they can’t be bothered, thanks for sharing.
I can certainly get the disappointment but considering these projects will have taken years to come out it’s properly more just coincidence that they have picked a project someone else has done. As they have said they picked the class 60 to have a modern loco to feature with their newer rolling stock. But I am a little gutted it’s not a class 43 as I’m sure Accurascale would do a version as detailed as the Hornby rendition but for a lot cheaper. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways If Accurascale decided to produce the class 43 there would be a meltdown in the hobby, they won’t be able to keep up with the demand and the coaches would be required so the factory would be running 24/7 to keep up because most modellers would want one in my opinion, the class 08 or 58 would be easier to deal with but I guess they aren’t on the to do list.
@@StormmyStormmy it would be a tough order but there are plenty of Mk3s out there anyone who likes HSTs have them so I don’t think it would be a complete meltdown if they were struggling. Either that they’d release them similar to the Mk5s in a pack of them so you could get a decent rake. Either way they probably will stick to a more industrial locomotive for now.
Personally I find it very odd how many 'close releases' Accrascale have done. For me it's now a few too many to ignore. Dapol Manor, Bachmann 37, Cavalex HAA (and derivatives), now the class 60 (and I'm sure there are others). I feel as though they are deliberately stepping on others toes - hearing through the grape vine of what a company has planned and pushing their way to produce it at pretty much the same time. If it wasn't within months of the other manufacturer releasing then this would be a totally irrelevant point.
I’m sure that is just an unlucky string of coincidences. Accurascale seem like they are mostly focused on industrial diesel locos and there are plenty on the market already and that’s the same for the rolling stock to match. I’m sure they aren’t deliberately doing this as the tooling will be in production for years before they are announced. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
I’m sure Revolution Trains announced their nuclear flask wagons then all of a sudden Accurascale announced theirs and got them out before Revolution did, the rotating axle boxes are good but the battery operated flashing rear light is not good at all! If you forget the batteries and they leak you’ll be hacked off.
I presume locomotive production takes a couple of years.companies must have a schedule of product development for years in advance. Not like there are a huge selection of diesel locomotives from that era so if two companies manufacture trains your bound to get duplicates. Competition is good it forces competitive pricing and a better quality product.obviousy hornby being the exception to that.what wagons are both releasing too?do u need the class 60 to go with them.ppl are brand loyal too.buy from your chosen favorite. That's what I think.i could be wrong.i usually am.
No I don’t think you’re wrong at all, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It does take years to manufacture models and yes I agree both companies are modeling rolling stock from that era so it is inevitable that duplicates happen. Like you say the brand loyalists will stick with there’s and the people like me who have never owned any from either manufacturer will just go with the livery they like the best. Thank you for commenting and hope you enjoyed the video 😊👍
