This list is so freaking wrong. Warlocks die 7x more often than priests, they have one of the lowest survivial rates. Redo your list with the real known numbers man.
Rogue has the ultimate death prevention tool , vanish. Just dont be the one that vanishes between 4 mobs and gets caught lol. Safest class for dungeons as well, tanks dies you sprint-vanish-cya. Thats S class in my book, at least A.
I fully agree with you the only problem well concern is you don’t get it until 22 with alot of HC deaths being around the 15ish range it’s a bit away before you get it
vanish on top of the mob, or while bleeding or while poisoned etc. Make sure what mob you're fighting so you know how to pop your cooldowns (evasion, sprint, vanish, supression etc)
In my opinion, the best pick for official hardcore is Warlock or Paladin because of the free mount they both get at level 40. Since trading and the auction house are enabled on official, gold is going to be very important for buying gear upgrades and consumables. Since Paladins and Warlocks don't have to save 90 gold for a mount, they will be able to constantly spend it at the auction house. Every other class will be struggling for gold.
Warlock has the lowest average death of any class. I'm sure none of the people who make these lists got a Lock to 60. Level 18-30 is absolutely brutal. I couldn't usually take two yellow mobs at that level and god help me if they're mechanicals.
@@notgarybrown bruh I think you're doing something wrong, I just dinged 32 on my lock and its been a breeze. Only had a few close calls but it was always due to stupid mistakes on my part. I often take two mobs at a time with pet taking one and fearing the other. Lock is definitely S or A tier in my opinion and I had no real experience playing lock before rolling it for hardcore.
Just hit level 40 on my Warlock today. About to get my free mount! As planned, I've been able to constantly buy gear upgrades from the auction house. No major close calls so far.
rogue is easily A tier if u go combat and have adrenaline rush blade flurry u can easily solo most elites and lets not forget about vanish where u can save urself from death just sprint first so the mobs dont hit u as u vanish, maybe the 20 first levels are hardest but just take it slow untill then
Warlock in S is copium. Theyre statistically the most death prone. Locks are strong solo and against 1-2 mobs but when they get swarmed and dazed theyre sitting ducks and die easily
@@CookiesOnDowels it's been shown already that classes that have no real ability to CC mobs are prone to dying, especially later on in the game. Best classes for leveling are Rogue, Mage and Hunter with Druid/Paladin a bit behind. Worst class to level is by far Warrior but Lock is close as fear and void walker sacrificing are their only outs in a dangerous situation.
I could not really get drain tanking to work well until like level 40+. Before that, I had fear which is dangerous as it brings in adds. Hunter has better escapes.
@@UrsusObesusother factors enter in like free mount, gear dependence, builds ect. Its reasonable to assume most locks are leveling in a spec that isn't so good in hardcore
It's so freaking true and I love Warlock. It's my class. I got to 20+ consistently and at level 18 there's a huge drop off in killing power. Then level after level I just felt weaker compared to the same green mobs. At level 22 taking on two yellows was really hairy.
@@UrsusObesus ^ This. Warlock is great in normal and even minor challenging situations. But in crisis they are toast. As a Hunter I can send in my pet to AoE taunt and die while I Cheetah away. Rogue can sprint then vanish. Paladin can bubble and lay on hands.
I actually found my warrior experience (to 30) fairly easy once you get first aid, cooking and especially engineering online. But unlike any other class it feel required
It's mostly just the threshold for what qualifies as an "oh shit!" Moment is lower for warriors. When everything is going according to plan it's very smooth. And if you're good, you can really reduce the times it doesn't go to plan. But when things go wrong, warrior below 30 is the most likely to die for it.
Hunter should be cautionary S tier because it's the that player defines the class. If they're skilled and have threatmeter, levelling is a breeze. But if they're called Bowjob or Lagoles, then yeah, go again.
Speaking as the owner of 30+ warlock corpses.... yeah. It's because it looks like the perfect hardcore class on paper but in reality it just doesn't play out like that. So people who don't play it put it as S tier.
I would move Shaman up to A and probably Mage down to B, but otherwise I'm alright with it. Underrating shaman's durability and toolkit. You mentioned earthbind to help escape but there is also stoneclaw totem which is incredibly useful in getting unexpected mob off you. Also you failed to mention their greatest escape tool: frost shock. Also sounds like you are using earthbind wrong heh. You don't drop it right away you run 8 to 10 yards and then drop it, that way when the mob resets it won't reset back right into aggro radius on the totem. Shaman also just pack a huge punch with burst damage while being able to take a beating. Also most importantly is that shaman have a relatively low skill floor compared to classes like warlock and hunter. Hunters and locks are probably the best if you are very skilled at playing them, but for casuals or non-sweaties that may not be at that necessary skill level with the class... your warlock can go down pretty quick.
Under the assumption that a person is very experienced with the class, I would have put the priest, warlock, and hunter all at the highest tier, equal. The warlock for the sheer number of defensive abilities available (fear, mass-fear, deathcoil, VW OT, VW sac, demo build instant resummon sac, gnome escape, and more). But still, drain tanking is boring as hell, I prefer leveling with the succubus myself and because of that I don't put the warlock all alone at the top tier. Drain tanking is just too annoyingly monotonous. The hunter + ape combo which can hold opening AOE threat against a couple of pet heals and multi-shots, plus FD and slowing shots. Yes, a hunter can get into trouble if FD is on CD or misses, but pulling and DPSing at range solves most dangerous situations. I do make it a point to fully train my mele weapons which gives me the option of not having to move (into a potentially more dangerous situation) to finish off a mob that closed on me. And I always dismiss the pet on any serious jumps. And the dwarf priest with incredibly reliable mana management, uninterruptability in emergencies with the shield, instant big heal (dwarf priest racial), significant opening damage which puts the mob at 50% before it even gets into mele range, and two escapes: The AOE fear + runaway, and simply shielding and being able to run away unimpeded, without getting slowed down by hits from behind. Since the priest is single-target anyway, it is very difficult to actually get into a situation that puts you in any real danger in the first place. And like the druid, priests can maintain 75% and higher mana levels while leveling without pause. For today's hardcore opening it is a hard choice but I think I've settled on the warlock first, demo build, succubus leveling. Then a hunter second. And a priest last simply because I don't want to stress out if someone dies while I'm healing.
The average first death in wow classic happens at level 13. All of the things you say are so great about Warlock aren't available until almost level 30. To evaluate a class for hardcore you have to take a close look at what they're capable of in the first 20 levels, and the Warlock is pretty bad in the first 20 levels. Don't praise the Voidwalker as being OP. The Voidwalker greatly increases your aggro radius, so accidental pulls and adds happen frequently, and the Voidwalker is also a very poor tank, unlike a hunter's pet. It has difficulty holding aggro and is pretty squishy before level 20.
S tier: hunter, rogue; A tier: druid, priest, mage; B tier: shaman, warrior; C tier: paladin, warlock There is nothing redeemable about locks, and pallys are the worst playing experience with literally no offensive toolkit Shammys start like thunder but end like a fart in the wind, while warriors - if you keep your weapon progression up - can fight out of most trouble Druids, priests, and mages... you kind of have to be trying something crazy to end up dying Hunters and Rogues you actually have to do a couple of catastrophically stupid things to end up dying
You won't die on a paladin in most circumstances though. So while yes offensive toolkit is lacking, they will reach 60 fairly often in comparison to other classes.
reason people die on hunter is because doing most stuff is fast and easy and you don't take any damage. pet can tank 3 mobs easy. but if your pet dies, or you get aggro and you get netted or something there is basically nothing you can do. 1v1 melee battles you will lose most times. feign death is only at lvl 30 and it can even resist. Hunter is super smooth and easy untill the 1 moment it is not and then you die.
Yes and they die because ... they have almost all the wrong spec in the first few levels... instead of putting the first 11 points on SV, most of them skill BM directly and therefore have no emergency button until level 30. On 30 you can save go BM of course, at this point its way better. In addition, most hunters don't go into close combat, don't have a good defense and weapon rating and die quickly without their pet. If they would skill Sv first ... with improved raptor strike, parry and monkey aspect active ... they could kill mobs (without pet) 1 vs 1 and without losing much hp, even less than a warrior. And of course the most of them choose a pet without AOE ability and if they pull aggro themselves, it takes too long for the pet to get aggro on all the mobs.
Shaman is real ez to get away from mobs even slow totem would work fine you’ll outrun most and all with 1 second wolf. Shaman also survives long enuf to get decent gear, kinda makes or breaks HC survivability
How about a Mak'gora tier list? No rules makes it a whole new animal. I will probably die horribly, but I want to try it at least every 10th level. I'm going Druid with engineering and then a Shaman with engineering.
Not entirely sure what this list is based on, but it's not statistics that's for sure. Warlocks on average die at the earliest level of all the classes, they BARELY have a 50% chance of reaching level TEN? And less than a 1% chance of reaching 60. And that makes them S Tier? :thinking:
No data can be used accurately to make conclusions because certain classes are picked more than others. People's perception of what classes are easiest is also deluded to skew the data even more.
@@MetaGoblin I like the video, but no, man. Data can be used accurately. The trick to understanding statistics is understanding things in terms of per capita. There are more hunters that died, because more people rolled hunter, you are correct on that point. However, you have to take a consistent sample size. For example, in a group of 100 hunters and 100 warlocks, how many of each died? Or taking into account all hunters and all warlocks separately, what percent reached level 30? That would give you more accurate insight into what's going on. That's why the "probability of reaching #lvl milestone" side of the image is more useful.
I think the key is to understand why warlocks tend to get themselves into trouble at very low levels, and whether an experienced warlock player would make those mistakes. When starting from scratch and nobody has wands for sale yet, getting a wand before level 12-ish is difficult (short of accumulating the silver to buy it in the mage quarter or being very, very lucky). I think a lot of people just don't know how to conserve mana on a warlock without a wand and put themselves into incredibly dangerous situations without realizing it. Two mobs + OOM (due to impatience) = dead at low levels. For anyone who understands this issue, though, its a cakewalk and almost impossible to die as a warlock.
Other than rog i agree with your list.rogue is the master class for soloing. You can solo so many elites .I remember soloing some brd mini boss for my dagger spec (dont remember the name some dagger with broken bottle model😅)Im pretty sure no other class solo things that rog can.
Laughs in hunter doing solo arena runs while leveling. The problem with rogue is getting to that point as most chars die around level 14 where rogue is at its weakest (not sure about the green menace but as alliance it is just horrible for rogues as they only have evasion and have to fight humanoids at that level with hard hitting casters and parry haste on the melees (plus those damn disarming defias)
I love your content usually. This list is just not good though and is really similar to my list made by general game knowledge and not actual hc exp. Now... with 2 months of exp playing hc its more like this S - mage, pala A - priest, hunter, druid, B - Warlock, rogue, warrior C - shaman
I rated the mage as A, priest as S, druid B, Shaman B, and warrior C. if C is your lowest. Mages are arrogant, can be fucked easily if low mana, and have low hp typically making them exceptionally vulnerable.
It's funny now to see the real data. Warlock doesn't make it to 60. They are the worst represented class by a bit. Good guess though. There are many other surprises as well
Using statistics for putting a class somewhere does not work, because a lot of n00bs try the easier classes but also make mistakes easier and die more quikly.
That’s not how earthbind worked. I actually would use earthbind to help people cause it won’t get me in combat unless it’s in agro range when mob resets but shaman damage falls off at 40-60 which makes them hard ❤
hunters like myself die because of the absolute cruise control you get into. I hadn't come close to dying in like 15 levels and went in to casually kill Ordanus in Ashenvale 1 level before i was to get feign death.. before i knew it i had 15 treants on me and was dead and like wait what??
I haven't died in classic leveling in ages regardless of class, only time I can remember is on the Horde quest called test of endurance the Harpies have hyper respawns + getting silenced on a Warlock in that cave is brutal, always do that quest at a higher level
Shaman anything lower than A is insanity. Their spells being largely hard cast is completely negated by earthbind, frost shock- an on demand slow on an 8 second CD, and a 40% movement speed buff that can be talented down to 1 second cast time. They’re one of three classes that can wear a shield which is as high as an additional 20% massive physical damage mitigation, an 8 second CD on demand interrupt in earth shock, and the ability to play all 3 roles in dungeon content at all stages of the leveling process (yep I said it). The ONLY case that can be made against shaman being in the top tier is that their spells are very mana intensive, and they’re not particularly fast levelers. Both of those things can be said about the priest, which you’ve got in A, and I don’t see anything a Paladin does better than a shaman other than having access to bubble (which is big granted, but just one thing). Shaman in hardcore will forever be underrepresented because so many more people play alliance for pally buffs in group content and cause that’s where the streamers are, but they’re a phenomenally fun class that I hope more people give a chance to.
Shaman arent better then any class above them B tier is where they belong as someone who has every class in hardcore at 60 i can tell you its not close not better the rogue priest mage warlock hunter druid or rogue
The only insanity is you bro. Shamans are one of the worst if not THE worst. No decent escapes, no hard CC. They are the lowest represented class because they are the worst class for hardcore. I'd say even more than warrior. Others have done more detailed videos about it.
I dual box, so almost always run with a priest pocket heals. Normally with a rogue or my hunter main. But I'm gonna try war/priest for my main duo on hc. Should be fun
@jacobmitchell9227 I just enjoy it, it works until higher dungeons, then I get to pick which to use. Plus I love to many classes, so it let's me double up 🤣
Warlock has some of the worst stats on deathlog. Something like 0.28% of warlock players make it to 60. So, I take issue with warlock being S tier. It seems like a pet class is going to be easier, but the reality is that one of your core mechanisms - life tap - makes you much squishier. Also, your pet does not hold aggro like a hunter pet does.
This right here. Literally all of these tier lists say that they are "easy" and every ounce of data on official and unofficial says otherwise. People just assume even though they never tried the class.
Finally a list that doesn't blindly place mage right at the top. For hardcore people thinks its good because it in excels in AoE but its so risky to do consistently on HC. Warlock is the superior caster for HC in every way.
If this list swaps hunter with warlock, it would be correct. Warlock is fantastic, but drain tanking comes later. Fear is dangerous. Hunter escapes are generally better.
Let's see: blink (distance + breaks you out of cc), frost nova, auto slow when being hit by frost armor, chance to root with every spell, safety portals (if you create a portal before a fight you can use it in combat if things go south) polymorph, counterspell, evocation, managems, manashield Versus Sack voidwalker, health stone, fear (which might pull more adds) Mages are not placed at the top for their aoe, they are there because they have tons of "oh shit" Buttons that allow them to escape death, whereas a warlock is doomed as soon as a third mob pulls as he has no mobility, no reliable cc, no cc/ root break, 1 defensive skill. It's great when you are safe as the voidwalker tanks and you dot away, however what counts in classic are the "oh shit" moments and what your class has to offer in those
@@hmvollbanane1259 More locks and hunters were levelled to 30 (x4) than mages on HC official PTR. Mages are inclined to face deaths way easier. You can resist a lot of the sht. You are underrating the best aspects of lock.
