In this video I show you how I used electrolysis to clean a flathead v8 engine block from the 1940s. I've never used electrolysis before, and I was surprised at how well it worked and how easy and cheap it can be.
Nice video, your parts turned out great! A few notes for others interested in electrolytic rust removal: This process produces hydrogen and oxygen gas. Work outdoors, and avoid sparks and open flames. The process does not remove ANY of the base iron or steel. It only affects iron oxide, which is converted to an iron compound. The presence of hydrogen can potentially cause hydrogen embrittlement, but the effect is likelly minimal. Might want to minimize current and time for suspension components. Higher current will speed up the process. I routinely use 2-5 amps for pulleys and other small items. For engine blocks and other large parts, 10, 20, or more amps would be more suitable. The water level will drop due to electrolysis (turning water into H2 + O2), and due to evaporation. Evaporation is sped up by heating of the water from current flow. Account for this if you're going to let it run overnight. Current flow follows the path of least resistance, so exterior surfaces and those closer to the anodes will be cleaned fastest. Interior surfaces will be very slow. Anodes can be place inside the part to overcome this, but be careful to make sure they don't touch the part. Don't use copper wire or copper clamps to connect the part to the current source. The copper will plate onto your part. Use carbon steel (not stainless) wire or clamps. Steel anodes are sacrificial, as mentioned. As they oxidize, their resistance is increased. Clean or replace them periodically. Or, use carbon rods as anodes to avoid the problem altogether. Don't use copper or stainless steel anodes. Have fun!
@Juden Arier I have read that it changes Fe2O3 to magnetite, Fe3O4. You're right, acids oxidize, and to put it very simply, this electrolytic method forces oxidation of one of the Fe atoms through electric current.
I have wrapped a steel electrode with fiberglass window screen material to insert it into close places. a rod like that could be inserted into the cam bore with good results if needed.
Nice info on those carbon rods, as they are non-consumables. Any idea on sizing for those rods, as pertinent to the electrolysis process. They're available through Ebay, but not sure if those available would be sufficient @ 7/16" & 1/2" x 12+". The rods would make getting deeper into an engine block by wrapping the rods in a non-conductive mesh (nylon screen?) and inserting that into the lifter or cam bores, or even deeper into the water jackets of old cast iron blocks.
The biggest gain we found on our cast 289 ford V8 blocks was that it really cleaned the water jacket out and made quite a difference on the temperature when running 😎
@Rat Fink That's bull . Buddy i have owned an automotive machine shop for over 30 years . Specializing in fords. 60's and 70's Fords shed sand and casting trash. Filters for the hose are made for just that reason. In the 60's and 70's there were many foundry's and the big 3 had and still have there own casting foundries. Blocks and heads were made in the old days with sand . The accuracy and quality was awful . I have sorted through a dozen blocks with a sonic checker to get one that has expectable core shift and cylinder walls on older castings. For high performance use. Now heads like AFR are permanent mold castings as many OEM or a lost foam method or wax cores. The old sand casting are long gone for engines and heads. it would be impossible to sand cast the complex thin wall casting of today with sand due to core shift and porosity.
@Rat Fink Yes, but not everyone cleans their blocks the same way. Chrysler had an issue with their magnum v8 engines shedding casting sand and having premature water pump failures. A good engine block flush will clean it out, but a coolant filter is also an option
Cool - that block looked so nice. Only criticism I have (take it from someone who's done it for years) is to please wear safety glasses when pressure washing. Especially on irregular surfaces those little chunkies can ricochet back at you before you can blink. I've had bits of crud cut my face (no face shield) and was glad that at least I could still see at the end of the day because I was wearing a $2 pair of safety glasses. I had enough nasty things get in my eyes when I was young and immortal and too cool to wear them - now I just wear the glasses whenever there's a hazard because the world is beautiful and I want to see it, my children and, soon, grandchildren. If you're going to take good care and pride in that engine rebuild, please extend the same courtesy to your body.
Thank you for your super demonstration of the power to intensively clean deeply tarnished and corroded engine parts using this technique. The parts were remarkably transformed, all without hard, labour intensive, hands on cleaning!
Great results. A lot of the machinery and tool restoration channels use electrolysis on a smaller scale and now you show your only limit is the size of your container. Just as you mentioned make sure the item is completely submerged or else you will end up with an etched line at the surface.
Also a big advantage is that the interior rust in closed subframes is disolved. European cars have often closed boxsections and subframes because of their monocoque construction. Importent with those parts is that you drill some holes so the proces can also reach inside. An additional advantage of those holes are that you can use a borescope to see inside and apply anticorsion into it.
I kept thinking...... what would 40 amps have done? Would it have worked better? Faster? Or made no difference? But I must say..... That bare Flathead block is a piece of art!😁
It would probably have pitted the hell out of the block. When you're doing electrolysis, you're removing material, and too much power can quickly ruin the part. Think of it like a welder in reverse. The more power you give it, the more material will be removed, and electrolysis doesn't care whether it's eating away rust or base-material. Electrolysis has no sense of humor, you see... lol Technically speaking, if you let the part sit in the tank long enough at even low amperage, there would be pretty much nothing left but a really crusty cathode.
@@MFKR696 That's contradictory to what he said. He said it only ate off the rust and grease and didn't affect the cast iron. I also seen another commentor say he uses 10 amps or more on large items. That's the problem with RU-vid. Do I believe the RU-vidr and the other poster, or you?🤔
From what I have heard, only the rust (iron oxides) are affected by electrolysis because of the molecular charge causes the iron oxide to break up with hydrogen going to bubbles and oxygen going to the cathode. The black stuff is a mixture of iron metal and magnetite from what I know. I could be wrong.
You were the only video that warned me about aluminum dissolving. I will be cleaning up a tool and one of the parts is aluminum with two steel rods sticking out. I don't want to risk pressing the rods out to de-rust them, so I'll work out a different way.
I like the simplest way to clean metal. I dipped a whole car frame and the suspension in citric acid. Came out super clean. Way better than sandblasting.
Looking forward to you building this engine. I never built a flathead so it will be interesting to see. I think some time with a drill and various wirecups would do wonders on the surface now and buy a set of engine brushes for journals and passages!
@macroMachines it doesn't really matter whether you set it at 2, 200, or 400 amps. The battery charger is constant voltage supply there for it will always output 12V. By ohms law the system (being the whole electrolysis system) will draw whatever the amount of current ( or "amperage") necessary to act on 12V. I would recommend leaving it at 200 because then the system will be working at full capacity. By leaving it a 2amps you MIGHT (I could be wrong) be keeping the process from running at its fullest. Best way to check is by using a multimeter connected in series (NOT parallel) and checking the amount of amps it is drawing. If it is stuck at 2amps, you might be holding back the process.
To be more specific, due to galvanic reactions and the properties of aluminum, it would be eaten away because it would effectively turn into a sacrificial anode, much like the Zinc bricks that are used as sacrificial anodes on boats and ships. Because of the galvanic properties of Zinc and Steel in sea-water, on a boat/ship that's electrically grounded through the hull, the combination of salt-water and angry-pixies will pull material away from the Zinc bricks instead of the hull. If they weren't there, the hull would ablate to nothing in no time just from being grounded the way it is. A ship is essentially a giant anode, and the ocean is essentially a giant cathode. I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I thought it would be interesting to mention.
nice video and its always nice seeing younger ppl using old school techniques. this looks alot easier to do at home than an acid bath to clean a block up so i may just keep this fun fact for the future. also next time you drill rivets it makes life alot easier if you tap the center out with a punch a little smaller than the shaft in the middle. then use a slightly larger drill bit than the hole and wiggle it around a little as u start drilling and the cap on top should start spinning and walk up the drill bit. then you just push the other side out if it doesnt fall out. or you can tap it from the side with a chisel but thats messier. my time as a mechanic helped me find that trick with rivets and instead of 30+ seconds a rivet sometimes its 10 or less this way. smack with a hammer and 1 bit. when drilling alot of rivets or in tight or bad spots it can make or break your day i hope it helps.
There is a problem with using electrolysis for cleaning an engine block. That is many use small plugs of aluminum to blank off oil galleries, these can be hidden in the end of drilled holes that you wont see. When the engine is rebuilt there isn't proper oil control through the block and it fails immediately after rebuild. Any bearings that go through the process will need replacement, Camshaft etc. This isn't the case with all engines but some do this.
One thing I'd like to mention is you need to blow all the parts off with compressed air before any assembly is done wiping them with a towel or rags leaves lint on everything and when you start the engine up the lint will go into the oil pan and plug up the oil pickup screen. You really won't be able to see the lint but it's there I have 45 years experience in doing transmission work and I've seen many do-it-yourselfers wipe parts with rags and then it will plug up the screen after the transmission is run for a few minutes so never wipe the parts with rags or a towel always use compressed air to blow everything dry
Great video and great idea! The only thing I would do different as I would pressure wash it prior making the wash powder more effective and removing 100% of grease and grime
Reminds me of me as a teenager 60 years ago--No goggles! No gloves! No steel toed boots! No long pants! I survived! Still have both eyes, and all my fingers and toes!
If you want to save on WD40 you can mix yourself, 8 parts of solvents like gas/petrol and 2 parts of fresh engine oil. Use it for year to protect bare steel tools etc, you can wipe it off and layer of oil is left, just like with WD40.
Definitely planning on doing this with my 68 383 big block mopar. Scored it and 906 heads from a guy for $300. His kids had torn the plastic off the block while it was in his shed so the entire block is coated in a surface layer inside and out. Going to drop it into my 95 Dodge Dakota (V6 Magnum) And rebrand it the Dakota Super Magnum as the 383 and 400 used to be called the "magnum" as well.
Works much better if you degrease it first. Also use paint remover prior to remove paint. There is also a product that will not allow flash rust. Eastwood after Blast is one of them
Good work. That block and pan are in excellent condition. I don't think I've ever seen a flathead Ford V8 that didn't have cracks between the valves or cylinders.
Wow good job , I’ve been looking into various cleaning methods while doing an engine rebuild for my m113 engine & soda blasting worked well for my aluminum cylinder heads . Definitely gunna try this method in the future.
You can get similar results using water and molasses. You need to degrease first as the oil will kill the microbes that form to eat the rust away. Same black iron oxide coating when you pull it out of the water that will wash right off. I use one small jar in a rubbermaid trash can with water with great results. Nice video.
You'd be disappointed. I've done it before. All that really means on the charger is that it's CAPABLE of 200 amps, not that it's going to push 200 amps. It ramps the voltage up from 12 to 20 to push more current to the battery that you're charging. If your battery is super dead, you may actually see 200 amps flowing. But in the case of an electrolysis setup, your current is based on how well you have placed anodes and how much washing soda you've used. You're never going to get 200 amps unless you're shorting your parts against the anodes, which would just cause the charger to trip off (hopefully).
Its as if manufacture's or government saw to many torture movies & banned the production of good battery chargers-sux!!! Because, One cannot revive a dead battery with these supposed smart chargers-they suck compared to the older ones!
The electrolysis removes rust and anything over the rust, it doesn't clean it, but due to the electrolysis process it does dislodge contaminants from the surface. No other metals should be in there other than steel or iron. It's best to use iron as the sacrificial piece. Cast I think is supposed to work better as it has more surface area. No stainless steel or chrome should go into the solution, as it can produce hexavalent chrome. Which is highly toxic and quite damaging and hard to get rid of. I recommend using some steel bailing wire to connect the power source to the battery charging clips. The higher the current the faster the process will happen. What was supposed to happen in a few days will happen in a few hours. Just ensure that there's adequate safety notices around the set up so no one electrocutes themselves if they go near it when you're not around to tell them not to touch it. But other wise the set up you did was pretty good. I'd recommend a sheet of metal around the barrel. The more evenly the anode surface is distributed in terms of distance from the cathode the better. It works great on old garden or workshop tools that are made from steel too. Just remember not chromed steel.
@@bottomlands it's not the voltage that kills. It's the current. DC is less likely to harm you, but it's always best to take precautions as if it would.
If you use more amperage your solution will get hotter. What you are essentially doing is calcium carbonate in aqueous solution or in your case Borax, (Boron Carbonate) to generate a hydroxide group at the iron base of contact. The black stuff is pure carbon and / or Boron that bonds with the iron. The hydroxide groups created by the electrical charge Bond with the fatty acids (oil and grease) and esterify them into soap. Aluminum will beat eaten by the hydroxide groups like a cake in a weight loss clinic. Hydroxide groups with a metallic base such as sodium or potassium have a pH around 14. Essentially what you are doing is hot tanking and treating with ospho all at once. I thought I was the only one that prefers this method. If you have the time, money, and room, build a purpose built tank with a kynar or HDPE lining. If you are good with electronics build the current control to be regulated proportionally to temperature at a set point of 90°C. Insulate it for more efficiency. Oh. And one more tip. The scum that is left over is gold. Get some litmus strips. Boil the water out of it and filter it through a coffee filter. Slowly mix in a high quality mineral based motor oil until you have a pH of 9. Let it cool and you have an amazing all purpose grease. The rare earth metals such as molybdenum, vanadium, and platinum that rub off the piston rings and valves into the oil make the grease perfect for everything except brake carriers. Add copper powder and graphite and you have an excellent anti sieze compound. Most forms of grease are nothing more than high quality oils and additive metals and minerals neutralized with a hydroxide to Form a soap. Did you ever notice that when you pack a bearing the old school way in your hand, the part of your hand that you wipe with the outer race is actually really clean? 💡 All mechanics should learn chemistry. It leads to all accepted constants making sense. You don't just know that ceramic piston ring are good for racing, you understand that they don't retain heat or bend from the acting of surface tension caused by rapid heating and cooling because vitrified ceramics have a low modulus of elasticity. Or why if you have an iron block and an aluminum head, you always use a copper gasket. And why synthetic oils and natural rubber gaskets don't mix.
results could be far better if first, you have used white spirit or diesel to remove the grease. In addition, a brake cleaner is also a good option before starting the electrolysis.
Instead of the myriad of wires inside the plastic tub, use rebar pieces as they will take up less space in the tub, so you don't have the engine block so close to everything. If you put a faucet to the bottom of that tub, it would make it easier to drain away the used wastewater afterwards. A cup of washing soda per gallon is a good measurement for the mixture. You can dump the wastewater into a flowerbed after you finished with the electrolysis of the parts, as plants love the iron in it but not into a veggie garden where they plants are eaten. To remove the black after the electrolysis bath, then empty the tub and refill with the used of vinegar and start it over again. Any strength or brand of vinegar will work. Use a wire brush or scrub pad as you did and most of that black residue will come right off once you spray it again. Coat it immediately, and I do mean immediately, with a light oil or WD40 to prevent flash rust after the cleaning. Nice video. Keep the tub out in an open area so any fumes do not cause a potential issue with a flash fire or explosion. Doing this entire process out in the hot Texas sun also helps to make it work all the better. I have never experimented with using hot water as the bath water for the process, but I do wonder if it may make a difference in effectiveness of the process.
Thats the nice thing about this process. ive done entire engines that are 80-100 years old and it removed all the exterior rust. you can even dump the water on plants and it wont harm them depending on whats left over
Only if your plants can take a dose of washing soda! The washing soda doesn't change (except for the part that breaks down the grease, and you can use the same solution over and over. I wouldn't dump it anywhere that you value the plants. It takes paint off too, and if you had lead paint on your piece, you'd end up with that in the sludge, so careful where you dump that.
I'm not 70 yet, but I am getting close. Maybe electrolysis is for me... Seriously, the results look great. I have spent too many years with steel wool, brass brushes, etc.
Don't forget to take off your glasses if you wear them, dentures, amalgam tooth fillings,and if you happen to have a steel plate in your head don't use more than 40,000 volts. Good Luck
Looks great - Actually Easyoff Oven Cleaner spray will clean it spotless too around the aluminum areas ,Even on your running vehicle it will remove paint too -Careful Caustic Soda ( RUBBER GLOVES ).
When you're pressure washing or doing anything where there's a constant state of shit flying, you need goggles at LEAST! Even water can cut stone and steel, but you're propelling rust and other dirt and debris with it! Let's try and keep our sight. Try doing any of this without it. Imagine even trying to pull off moving the car into the garage let alone working on it! Thanks for sharing. Don't want to lose you!
And gloves to stop from injuring hands. And a mask in case of breathing in any rust particles. And a hard hat in case anything falls on your head. And a high vis so no vehicles in the vicinity run over you. And condoms in case a happening upon a wandering prostitute.
