Rogue is now My currently new favourite starcraft player to watch, his overseer spam strat is so entertaining to watch. It looks so dumb, yet efficient at the same time, just spamming the enemies base with changelings, gaining vision everywhere, and counterring those dreaded ghots. I couln't stop laughing when winter whent to clems base at the end of the last round, and there were just changelings chilling everywhere around it. It looked like there were more fake marines thant actual marines. All your bases are belong to us style XD
well the fact that starcraft is still alive nowadays, has a reason xD there are A LOT of strategies people didn't even think of, i honestly thought changeling where totally useless. and see them under a different light now xD you can body block units with enough of them which is already a lot specially for base invasion etc.
Clearly you've never been anywhere near master in sc2. All these kids talking about Clem raging after a match seems to just dont get it. You guys raging at your opponent and us raging after a lose is different. We get mad because of how we played. You get mad because you're opponent is being "unfair" in your eyes. Stop projecting man.
I've never seen Clem that angry in his entire career... but he said in an interview with French casters that sometimes he hits his keyboard out of rage after a defeat
I watched him rage after Reynor beat him and ruined his win streak. he did exactly like u said he fist pounded his own desk or keyboard like a child. makes sense hes "the kid" he sure acts like one
@@YoureWrongImRightGetOverIt he's kid, bc he hit the desk? At least he's not one of random million envious trolls on the internet, who hate others bc they succeded (btw kinda fitting name to envious random troll)
So ... who knew that having to constantly cycle your army between the front line and rear line to combat "drops" in your main and constantly being out maneuvered and unable to "hit" your target.
37:22 I love the Brenda gag. I like all the gags actually. Much like I loved the Panda Bear Guy of old tasteless. Ya do a great balance of friendly fun banter with old radio announcer. Dont change much pls.
Using Overlords and Engineering Bays to shield units was a thing back when I played competitive SC1 many moons ago. Being only a spectator nowadays, I've always wondered why it's not used now and assumed there were changes that made it unfeasible. Turns out people just forgot it was ever a thing I guess.
Engineering bays? Part of it is it worked so well SC1, because it was like carving hieroglyphs with a spoon, a lot harder to do anything at all In large part, someone would lose if they did it, triply so if the game is decided early but at the same time it needs long term investment, it can't be done all at once (would be better to just attack sooner) (Also zooming in to get a better pov) We're seeing it come up now, give it a while to see what if any counterplay develops
@@PJOZeus giving time for counters to develop is a far better approach for non-exploits than knee-jerk changes, so I hope this gets adequate time to play out.
@@Grellmax It's 50/50, observation vs study If they were just watching then yes a knee jerk reaction would be horrible, But I do think in a deterministic way it's entirely possible to ascertain what reactions may be or whether it needs changing People could belong to either group, and there certainly are observers who cry wolf in that negatively impactful way
more like the game let you swarm them with swarm hosts, then when they nerfed that you could attack your own broodlings to send more broodlings, and now you can currently do this. There's still the strategy of spamming spore/spine crawlers to get around the supply cap.
I think what's more important than not being able to target lurkers is that Terran can't really target the banelings rolling under the overseers w/ marines, marauders, and tanks. That severely undercuts their ability to shoot down banelings that are too close. The best they can do at that point is A move, but there wouldn't be concentrated fire on the banes. What an innovative strategy. Does this mean that Terrans will have to build a number of Thors to do splash dmg on the overseers?
@@calebbryant9973 That's where Oliveira differs from Clem. Oliveira seems to use more mech in the late game against Zerg. Instead of relying on Vikings & backline Ghosts to push out zerg detection, he builds a few Thors to do just that. While we may see some nerfs coming for the Overseers, I'm okay with it as long as they address the ghosts, too.
@@motan7864 Imagine Terrans using Command Centers & other buildings (w/ building armor, of course) to cover for Sky Terran. Extreme late game TvZ w/ 20 BC, 10 CC's, and 10 Factories floating around (SCV under them of course), and zerg can't Neural Parasite, Yoink, and Parasitic Bomb the right targets lolol I can also see Zerg using a few overseers to cover for drop-o-lord w/ a infestors in it, but may take too much APM.
Hi, yesterday, october 8th, byun tried doing thors to counter rogue's swarm of overseers and locusts, at wardii monthly, it was effective to some point, but he couldn't really punish rogue between locusts volleys since his troops would get picked off by ultras and lings whenever he left his bases. A much interisting match, i sugest u watch it
Zerg definitely needs to exploit nydus as much as possible. Even multiple networks at the same time to try to overcome the insurmountable advantage that terrans have in firepower and mobility. Clem starts to make rookie mistakes when he simply can't micro himself out of the situation.
@ottoback5375 serral is a pure macro player. Thats why he only plays zerg. He takes almost 0 risks and usually wins because he didn't made a single mistage while his opponents risky play failed. This works because zerg is automatically ahead. He wouldn't have a chance on zerg if it were made into protoss 2.0.
And nydus. You could literally fire 5 worms at the same time. It'd take some serious firepower to kill all of them before one of them is ready yet players have not done it before.
It was nice to see this strategy game #3 come to a conclusion when @Winter gave us an hour long game with the same strategy ending in a mutual draw a few days ago.
First game's accidental organization of stopping the first few nyduses with the stuck tanks was pretty funny. I remember seeing a video of someone massing overlords and blotting out the screen while unloading/nydus come up. Always wanted to see something like that, especially in clem vs reynor zvt
Rogue has always been the goat and people seem to have forgot that in his absence. Six months back from military and already redefining the ZvT match up that everyone has been stuck in for 3+ years against the reigning world champ.
@@geuros Less tech investment and resources to counter more time, upgrade diversity and unit cost It's primary counter is a burrowed unit who entirely relies on stealth against a race which has on demand detection anywhere on the map anytime they want it No it's not fine. Might not be the biggest issue, but not fine
I just think it was a bad play in round #3. Clem let the worms happen instead of breaking off units to defend from them. I don't play this game, but as an observer, I can see Zerg is the most flexible yet easiest to cripple. The only way Zerg wins usually is by rapid expansion, generating enough income to throw hundreds of units away. Protoss are the glass cannons with their endgame being air superiority. The Terran are turtles using certain units to damage the enemies economy to reach max upgrades to win. There's a counter to everything, and part of that is the information gathering. This same strategy wouldn't be effective against storm Protoss. I have no skin in the game, just my personal thoughts.
@@coltongropp1465 yeah the one caveat is spellcasters, which is the only reason Zerg doesn’t immediately die every single time (queens) and their only dependable late game (vipers/infestors), as clem showed with Serral trying to quick tech to those late spellcasters just means you take too much attrition to lead, at least from Terran’s best
@@coltongropp1465 Of course it was bad gameplay. But if he did break off units he'd have deficit somewhere else and could have been overrun in front. Clem simply doesn't know how to split his units against that tactic.
first the reynor t vs clem z, and now this, i never felt so hydrated than by all these terran tears, and we didn't even get the new maps and balance patch yet (3 more weeks hold on in there crimson court sufferers)
Hopefully. Ghosts only weakness is that it is much slower than stimmed marines and marauders. And even medivacs are too slow. Terran has to start learning some strategy now instead of either turtling or abusing MMM.
Personally i think Libs could counter that mass overseer strategy quite nicely. They do air aoe damage, so can quickly clear large amounts of overseers, and counter the lurkers too.
You need Liberators to hold the front, while you deal with the nyduses, because those changelings will be everywhere. 1300 in nyduses is a small army's worth. You could be killing nyduses for 15 minutes.
At 20:07 where you mention "making your favorite player look like a noob," you should have mentioned that 2021 matchup where he cheesed Serral 4x in a row in TSL 8.
regarding the first game, how can it be that a map that has 70% terran win rate in pro play is even legal in tournament matches? That sounds ridiculous
i feel like ravagers never get used to their full potential. the actives always get spammed in the spam spot instead of being spread out for the enemy to micro into
That cloud tactic was something else..... Imagine if he build more from the start and did a roach/ling (cloud) rush!... or he can hover over the other base as well and prevent lift offs!!! or maybe disable some units that were not grouped!... Winter, ...tell him!
For the Overseer Cloud Tactic... I don't think roach/ling will work to well due to the AI Auto targeting the fights like it normally does. If the Overseer Cloud Tactic is helping the Lurkers not be sniped I would think I would be better if you put units under the Cloud that Ghosts "Want" to snipe or player wants to focus fire down. For Example you can put Ultras or Infesters under the cloud. Move the Cloud where you want to attack and have Ultras follow Under them and they Can't be sniped well or focused fire well. That is what I think anyway.
The amount of changelings lurkers and nyduses have to be extremely exhausting, even for a player like Clem. I think it's a winning strategy with more practice put in
I really like the idea behind changling charges even more than body blocking overseers. You can see how much extra time the Zerg gets when the Terran takes those 2-3 seconds to manually shoot them all (and then still end up missing a few most of the time). It's almost like having creep off of creep. You get to see your enemy, you slow them down, and by doing so you have more time to react. You can even body block with the changlings if you're lucky.
Missed the changeling voiceover when they blocked the reinforcements to the main: "Hey guys, you want through here? Why's that? A lurker attack, you say? Well, we were told to hold this position. Jimmeeey, did you hear about any lurker attack? Nah, sorry you cant pass, we got orders. Well somebody should call into headquarters about that lurker attack. But I cant see anything from here. . Five by five, boys, right?"
clem prolly just thought: 'oh my gosh they're gonna nerf the shit out of terran and these maps! i better play like trash until the patch and lose in a bunch of meme ways!' lol
Before anyone says this strat needs to be nerfed, Clem could use the scroll wheel to change the angle and still be able to hit some covered lurkers. It just makes it require more apm, which is good because snipe is so easy to rapidfire with one key.
Zerg: i take more bases hit more areas use higher tech use more apm for production spend more money to attack and defend. fair. Terran: I cant wave click to delete lurkers is gaem broken
@@Glass_Half_Full nah, only Korean fanboys are butthurt because Serral is the GOAT, and the only one that is on his level is Clem. Rogue is great, and definitely the best Korean, but not the GOAT. Serral has much more in every single metric, and there was only one to take him out convincingly at his best. Even herO said that almost every Korean pro believes that Serral is the greatest of all time in the game. All your arguments are invalid after that interview.
Something to think about: If the Overseer Cloud Tactic is helping the Lurkers not be sniped I would think I would be better if you put units under the Cloud that Ghosts "Want" to snipe or player wants to focus fire down. For Example you can put Ultras or Infesters under the cloud. Move the Cloud where you want to attack and have Ultras follow Under them and they Can't be sniped well or focused fire well. That is what I think anyway.
Hey Rogue, how to counter ghost? In theory? Mass Overseers with changelings can bodyblock the snipes. In reality? Dont fight them and go for the production with a lucky nydus.
Maybe do all army move, grab one marine, shift right click any unit that isn't following the move command. Then that marine will get some, or maybe a lot of the changelings.
I wonder if you could do the same with broodlords. Maybe stack them together with overseers or overlords so that ghosts can not target broods. So maybe a strat of hydra Ling bane broodlord could be somewhat alright. Maybe this could work as long as the Thor/Viking count isn’t too high. Well the threat of nydus in the main base wouldn’t be so high. Anyway, I really loved rogues style. So creative on the one hand but so sad on the other that Zerg still lacks a direct counter to the mass ghost strat.
Terran clearly needs to do the same with floating barracks to block ghosts from being seen. I did the same in a wc3 tournament with ancient protectors since you can make infinite amounts of them (zero supply), they started glitching out into each other in circular patterns
I think Rogue is using Clem's Sensor Towers against him. Changelings do appear on them no ? Untill they transform? Or do they avoid sensor tower detection at all ? I think its using Terran's strategy against them. Really good! Love it !
Lol? Infestors have been abused for years until they nerfed them. Zerg players acting like they have been the victim for 1 year when they been abusing broken shit for the past 8 years XD. I feel the pain for protoss though
Zerg players gloating when it's the only race with free units is wild... You wanna talk about map hacks with scans, how about unlimited units (overseers and changelings) because they don't hit supply. Also brood lords and swarm hosts exist even though they're not hot in the meta ATM. Rogue played great, but acting like zerg have been hard done by just because Clem elevated his game is just asinine. Snipe is fair in the context of free units. Protoss are hopelessly out of contention
@@calebbryant9973 Well that's one way to spin it. Or you could say ghost mech armies were the only way to somewhat deal with infestors. Zerg was broken with the free unit spam for so long. It about time they are the second best race. Honestly, protoss should be the strongest, followed by terran then zerg to make up for the balance of the past.
Terran have medivacs and mules and can repair. Zerg has spore crawlers and overseers and changelings and heal over time. Protoss has permanent damage. 2 races go over cap, one maxes out damaged.
You keep tossing around the possible suggestion of "exploit", but every one of those overseers cost minerals and gas... they are definitely a weird investment based on previous metas, but if you can utilize a unit as a shield, similar to using Marauders as bane shields, then what's the problem? I think all 3 factions have unique tricks and quirks that can work in their favor similar to this, it's just most people rely on metas and are afraid of trying things that seem crazy on paper but might actually work. I'm all for these strats because being conventional all the time is only so entertaining. :)
and I think it's fair to say this mass Overseer trick could have quite easily been resolved with a handful of vikings, since Rogue had basically zero anti air at most times.... so in this scenario I think Clem was just overthinking in the moment. The siege tanks scattered around the base and a few at the front were more than enough to keep the Nydus and armies at bay... But I digress, a learning experience for all.
Long live Brenda!!!!! My son's favorite part of your videos as I am of course so old that I have a child who can watch videos with me. *heads back to the creep*
