Anton Grigoryev poison damage is still underused by players. There’s a new UA feat that allows you to ignore poison damage, so maybe that’ll change soon
@@talongreenlee7704 Nah, unless it gets changed. Feat allows to ignore poison resistance, but there are only few enemies with it, and most have immunity.
Anton Grigoryev I was going to say this. People say poison is most resisted, but immunity is by far the biggest issue. Relatively, virtually no creatures are merely resistant to it.
The cleric in my group (unity domain) ran into his mom during the campaign, and he once described her as someone who was the most loving person you'd ever met, but would beat the shit out of you if you did something stupid. Well she (the cleric) got caught up in a war with the drow. So when she saw her mom, her mom hugged her tight, and then thumped her over the head for being stupid.
Light clerics are often associated with the sun, but I love the idea of a Drow cleric of Elistraee who's fire and radiant spells all look like moonlight.
Indeed, though they said for these videos they weren't taking multiclassing into consideration for their rankings. I even find Knowledge Cleric great: 2 extra languages, 2 expertises, and the command / identify spells baked into just 1 level.
Correction: light domain’s channel divinity deals RADIANT damage, not fire damage. It also dispels any magical darkness in the area it deals damage to.
They also goofed on Death Domain on part one. Ignoring the fact 6th level grants you basically A necrotic version of elemental adept. But hey still good videos.
you get heavy armor and shield proficiency and a free chainmail on cleric and you don't fall behind on leveled spells by multiclassing is pretty S to me
Sometimes when I watch these videos, I just stare at the person who's not speaking for the whole time that the other is speaking. I don't exactly know why, I just get so much joy out of it, it's amazing.
Dude! I've never done this before. But watch Monty while Kelly is doing the Light spiel. I'm sure it's something mundane. Watching a camera feed or something. But in my head, one of the Drakkenheim cast is just off screen dancing and he's trying to look away but failing.
I've been wanting to make ytp-type edit called: DooDoo's where i edit just the silences on top of eachother making it 5 minute loop of akward stares and nodding
@@duckman3394 Dude most people are watching this for a quick comparison to help build their characters if you don’t want the rank spoiled don’t read the characters
I really agree with the whole damage type subclass point Kelly brought up with the Tempest cleric. I've always wanted a ice themed subclass in the vein of the Tempest cleric or storm sorcerer. The only ice themed subclass is the Arctic land druid.. :/
@@adamkaris UNfortunately, unless you homebrew some spells (wich I did for my sorcerer), Ice damage is not really worth it compared to fire damage for the sorcerer
You might be up for a couple of arctic themed subclasses in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. If the Rune Fighter from UA gets printed in the book you woiuld have at least one arctic themed subclass more, in the way that your character may have been teached by a frost giant.
It's really because there aren't enough cold-based spells. You basically have to reflavour spells like Hold Person (freeze them solid) or Magic Missiles (shoot them with icicles) because there just aren't enough cold spells.
I mean you could probably just reflavor tempest and change a few spells. e.g. divine strike makes your weapons do extra thunder damage, change it to ice.
Currently playing Tomb of Annihilation with a Tempest Domain Cleric who worshipped Talos. My man is a champ. Control water got us out of some sticky situations. He was a variant human with the observant feat and a sentinel shield. Had a passive perception of 29. DM did not enjoy that sometimes.
Hill Dwarf tempest cleric here with a side dip (3 levels) into eldritch warlock. This has without a doubt been one of my favorite classes to play, you've got good survivability with heavy armor and a shield (war caster feat obviously a must have), that gets even more insane when you start burning high level cleric spells to crank up armor of agathys. At one point very late in the game (3 levels warlock, 15 tempest cleric) my character ended up in an arena tag out fight vs a non copy write enfringement version of Hulk. I could practically feel my dm crying as my 23 ac dwarf cast armor of agathys at 8th level, who being already hurt managed to literally bludgeon my dwarf to his own death. Also having access to a few sides of warlock shenanigans with ritual caster let me handle the majority of the team's magical heavy lifting. (Find familiar for scouting, detect thoughts for surprise interogation benefits, detect magic on command from eldritch invocation, and finally identify) And finally having access to warlock melee cantrips for reaction at high levels is amazing. Green fire blade, and more often booming blade could let my spiky hedgehog of a cleric absolutely wreck people trying to leave my reach to go after my squishy party members.
This is the best format for these videos. Y'all's rankings and then the players' rankings. Much better flow than the other vids in the series so far. Overall great video. Makes me want to try a cleric in D&D.
I also agree, I know it was said in earlier comments that they weren't trying to give off a 'we are right and you are wrong' feel, but the old style really did kinda passively give that off to me. This style really felt like "Ok, this is our line up, and this is the community line up" which I feel is what the point was supposed to always feel like.
I really feel like this also helped to give the Dudes some overarching perspective on the community opinions, which lead them to choose some better wording, making things seem less like a hostile critique and more like an opinion piece. Great job on the changes and self reflection to you guys.
One adjustment. Light cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn deals radiant damage, not fire. This is significant in terms of overcoming potential resistance. Keep up the great work!
@@Itsmuddy5 Yeah, this confused me for a second, because I just played a lvl 20 light cleric in a one-shot and was popping off that Corona left and right; I panicked when I watched this video thinking I'd unwittingly cheated, even though I'd been pretty sure it was at-will, and as far as I can tell it IS at will, so phew!
i think what Laura does with Jester just shows that when you have a DM who promotes creativity, subclasses which could on paper be tough to play can be intensely rewarding. you are absolutely right, she gives a masterclass of creative play
@@ZombieMonkey7 and the dust of deliciousness! a fun magic item she had been carrying around since 3rd lvl, completely screwed matt's plan for the deal they had to make. and caused the traveller to reveal himself to her the next episode. huge effect on the campaign!
In low levels at least, the War domain really shines, a couple of extra attacks thrown in, the ability to conserve spells for utility and healing when need be, as well as the heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency lends itself to a strong frontline tank. Recently the War cleric we had soloed Landerosa Cyanwrath, using shield of faith, the war domain features, and some lucky rolls. As you get more spells and options, I can see it not really standing up as well to the other sublcasses; but at low levels it excels due to good armor, good weapons, and options to enhance both on a very limited spell budget.
Honestly, as much as I love War Domain, I sort of see their point. Speaking from experience, while a straight War Cleric is a perfectly competent character, they really do need to multi-class into something that gives them access to Extra Attack to really shine. I've run a Battle Master Fighter/ War Cleric, and let me tell ya, one turn with Extra Attack + Action Surge + Holy Weapon has instantly bloodied a lot of bosses in my sessions.
i played a war domain cleric in curse of strahd and been able to cast crusader's mantle in all my skeletons rised with animate dead, my god was so funny seen undead deal radiant damage
I really agree with OP. Especially since you get War Priest at first level, and all other classes are waiting until 5th for Extra Attach. It also can really depend on your attribute point spread. If you are leaning into the frontline combatant, maybe your Strength is higher than your Wisdom at low levels and you chose a two-handed weapon. That can make it better than using a spell slot for Spiritual Weapon. Then, if you get a magical weapon, is it really worth a 4th level slot to up-cast Spiritual Weapon? Not for me, at least until my War Priest ability runs out.
@@nibilissilibin9141 I know this is a bit late, but I agree with you completely. As a DM (and as a player actually) I really like to run War Domain Clerics as ranked officers in a military unit. The flavour fits well, especially if you reason they're not getting extra attacks in because they're actively monitering the battlefield as opposed to single opponents, which also fits in nicely with War God's Blessing. With recent Tasha's changes giving the Aura spells to Clerics, you can see the Legion commander shouting orders to their men, while keeping up Aura of Life to keep the soldiers up AND casting spells like guiding bolt at enemy commanders.
I prefer using bless in this same way, because you then also give them the bonus to hit with that same spell slot, along with blessing two or more other party members.
@@michaelc6921 it's once per turn, true, but your opponent's turn counts as a different turn. This works the same way that Attacks of Opportunity can trigger a sneak attack. It wouldn't work if it said once until the start of your next turn, or if it said once per round.
I used fog cloud during combat to cover a wizard and archer on a roof. The archer tripped and fell off the roof and our Ranger finished him off. Love my Tempest Cleric
Another use of fog cloud is to drop it then have someone cast fireball over the same area. The fog cloud will disappear but every creature in the area auto fails their dex saves
For my tempest cleric I took a 3 lvl dip into eldritch warlock (was explained lore wise) and let me tell you a cleric in heavy armor with a shield, with two reactive damage effects that can proc together on getting hit is Crazy. Also 3rd lvl in warlock let me get pact of the tome which the group desperately needed as the rest of the party was magically illiterate.
Playing a lvl 6 'Blue'Dragonborn Tempest Cleric (worships Bahamut, so dragon AND storm theme!)in tomb of annihilation , so themed but behind in wisdom stat by +1. A LOT of control with front line positioning and damage, and I have a javelin of lightning! yummy 24 maxed damage and push 10'. combined also with wrath of storm with push 10' have interrupted a few multiattacks nicely, still take the damage though...
Ah yes, the two easiest house rules I ever implemented: war priest can be used after casting a spell, and invoke duplicity doesn't require concentration
@@KnowingCrow Not by any means a rules expert but I dont think that's a problem. Spirit guardians targets yourself, and while you can cast spells as though you're in your duplicate's space, it isnt necessarily the source of that persistent aura as it's not you
@@NotYourAverageNothing why? what does not requiring concentration do that takes away from its flavor? you still have a duplicate and can do the same stuff you could before, just a little extra now
Corona of Light makes it so that enemies in your range have disadvantage against saving throws against any spell that deals fire or radiant damage. Not just the cleric's spells. I recommend pairing this with sickening radiance.
also they mentioned it is a once a day ability, which isn't a part of the abilitie's description at all... to me it seems its a on-off button ability, am i wrong?
As a war domain cleric I enjoy being able to tank for my party while keeping them alive. I'm not really in it for the power that swinging my warpick occasionally offers. Generally the spells I have access to are much more damaging than simply slapping monsters can measure up to anyway. I did take the sentinel feat though which means I get into the fray and keep people off of my party members
Tempest Domain is insane combined with the party's wizard, just due to Sleet Storm, which I consider one of the most underrated and powerful spells in the game (massive AOE, heavy obscurement protects from many spells which require sight, forces difficult concentration checks, and the prone/difficult terrain sets up the wizard spell). Combine Sleet Storm with Slow, Sickening Radiance, Cloudkill, Stinking Cloud, Evard's, etc. and enemies are easily neutralized. Can even kill extremely resilient creatures with Sickening Radiance because it gives exhaustion levels and it's easy to keep them in the AOE with Sleet Storm and perhaps Walls (looking at you, level 20 Moon Druid).
One campaign I ran, the party had a habit of taking NPCs along with them and one of them happened to be a druid. I used Sleet Storm because I thought it was cool and would help out the party against the orc war band but little did I know that it would almost single-handedly win the entire fight. The combination of a 40-foot radius, difficult terrain, and knocking enemies prone meant that all the party had to do was throw AOE spells into the general vicinity and mop up the rest that managed crawl their way out of the Sleet Storm, completely demolishing the enemy's numerical advantage (it was about 20-25 orcs vs. 7 players/NPCs around level 6). That was the first and only time I've seen the spell be used and I'm more surprised that it isn't used more often.
@@windsgrace688 It's beaut all right, used it once and it was Dispelled a round later but that was enough for mayhem and controll, restriction on space is a fair limit. It also extinguishes all flames so I think it cancels your wizards fireball...
When Kelly mentioned his destructive fire while talking about the light domain, I think I saw a year's worth of pain in Monty's eyes when he remembered Sebastian Crowe.
Life Domain: "Man, it rocks that the spell list has all these spells I was going to take anyway." War Domain: "Man, it sucks that the spell list has all these spells I was going to take anyway." Community Rankings: "Dudes."
Well the thing is that with life cleric you're playing cleric^2 that's why having that extra space is helpful. But with war cleric you're playing a fighter subclass for a cleric so it's kinda bland that you're just taking regular spells
@@mifigor1935 (Old comment I know, but still) I do think it's a little difficult to grant any more spells that augment the power of your strikes like the smites mentioned before without having conflict with your Warpriest feature as is, for instance, the offhandedly mentioned smite spells in the video. I think if you buffed Warpriest and swapped out some of the bonus spells in the list with smite spells, I think it'd be pretty interesting, for instance adding the following to Warpriest "Whenever you cast a Smite spell, you may expend one use of your Warpriest feature and immediately make a weapon attack". I think that'd be pretty cool and definitely something unique Warpriest could use as a distinguishing characteristic of their subclass, although there's a solid chance that paladins would immediately begin to take exactly one level into War Cleric just because moar damag.
enjoy! i have been having a great time with my light cleric Apollos of Lathander in curse of strahd. i nearly got killed by 2 hags but i'm still casting bless non stop! fireball next level!
Having duplicates is always fun. Had a wizard who would have deep conversation ms with his mirror images. Yeah they were him, but he was slightly unstable. Surprised it is poison damage on the Trickery domain. Psychic damage would make more sense.
Order domains voice of authority feature is incredibly versatile. -it’s not limited to cleric spells -it’s not limited to beneficial spells -it’s a 1st level ability -it is not limited by the spells casting time. This makes it great for dips and synergizes well with the clerics abilities. Healing word is a decent option to proc reaction attacks, but needs to be balanced against spiritual weapon. your chosen ally, hopefully a rogue with sneak attack conditions met, can weaponize their reaction to potentially deal great damage. The ability to cast bless as a bonus action later on further increases the likelihood of that weapon attack landing. I’d also like to point out how potent the heroism spell can become if upcast for multiple creatures AND cast as a bonus action. Replenishing temporary hitpoints can really add up if you can consistently hold your concentration. My war wizard uses this dip to thematically and mechanically represent a more tactical way to cast. That being said, evocation wizards ability to cause allies to automatically pass their saves and take no damage from your evocation AOEs further weaponizes your spellcasting. Casting a fireball on a crowd that includes your allies who are safe and take no damage, then choose an ally to mop up a creature that still lives.
One of the things I really have enjoyed playing both a tempest cleric and a trickery cleric is the amount of sessions where other players or the DM would say, "Woah! You can do what? Are you sure you are really a cleric?" In many ways I find the life cleric to be the worst cleric because they really only do what you expect them to, which as noted, is very useful and good, but definitely can often lead to unintentionally putting the character in a smaller box than they can be.
@dobatag I find it to be the worst (in relative terms because all clerics are good) because the features it adds don't really drastically distinguish it from a cleric without a domain. Its features are all nice enhancements, but extra healing in a game where all you need is someone to bring you up from 0->1 HP isn't that amazing as typically the extra healing won't change the outcome very often. The idea the life domain means you avoid the "cleric tax" really just says you probably didn't want to play a cleric anyway. Other domains do a lot more to break the cleric "healbot" stereotype by giving you non-cleric spells to play with and more mold-breaking special abilities.
I've been playing an Order Domain Cleric, and we just finished up Tomb of Annihilation. Honestly, the ability to grant an extra weapon attack is more powerful than people realize. 5e combat is all about action economy, and granting your Rogue an extra sneak attack or giving your Fighter or Barbarian an extra attack is very strong, especially since you aren't usually dealing as much damage as they would be anyway. Also, using spells that buff them, heal them, or remove some debilitating effect usually combos well with this class ability. The ability to cast an enchantment as a bonus action has been a little limited, but when it works, its powerful. A lot of the enchantments you have access to are great buff spells, or incredibly debilitating debuff spells for your opponents. Combo that with the little extra damage you could be doing with an attack or cantrip, and you've had a pretty good turn.
I 100% agree. Casting bless on yourself, a Rogue and 1 other member than granting that Rogue another sneak attack opportunity seems incredibly powerful. I’m going to do a 1 level dip with my Drakewarden.
I can watch y'all again after checking out at the end of the D of D Season One. Separated does not feel right. Enjoyed every bit of it, how the rat king ended up as a major piece of the story, the myst flesh breakdown, economy, and the consistency of providing an calm and tight frame on the story. The Structure for the battle breakdowns were amazing as was the respectful theater of the mind segments. Thanks to the sponsors (whom i was happy to buy my first fire dice set from, even they left a nice hand written note on the sale of the dice I still keep) and thanks to the folks that helped this whole altruistic-all-inclusive-clan come together.
Trickery is always underrated because players just read the abilities and see how lacklustre they are instead of looking at the spell list and ruining their PHB with drool. Spell lists might not be as glamorous but they are more important for the majority of play.
This feels a bit contradictory Life domain gives you all the spells you would pick anyway "great, now I can pick other interesting spells" War domain gives you all the spells you would pick anyway "this is too restrictive, I'd prefer more spells from other players"
It is because standard cleric spells are mostly supportish, and life cleric just emphasizes on that, meaning you can take more support spells and be the healer on your team War on the other hand, is a massive change in direction, so instead of giving the cleric more fighty spells from other sources, so we can take cleric's fighty spells with us, this way, all the good cleric spells are already prepared, forcing you to take less useful ones too The issue isn't with prepared spells, the issue is with unprepared ones
Think about it like this: Life: A bunch of spells I would have picked anyways regardless of cleric subclass. War: A bunch of spells I likely wouldn’t have picked unless I’m playing a specific play style.
@@navels553 That's what I was thinking; it's surprisingly amusing when the spells you would most likely prep are already assigned to you spell list Of course the weakness in this is that you don't get any spells you wouldn't normally get compared to other subclasses but at the features you get enable you to use them better than usual.
The spell selection is a lot better. Bless is the best lvl 1 spell, divine favor and shield of faith are meh. The war spell list is overloaded with "eh" concentration spells. And more importantly, the life cleric features are transformative, while getting an extra attack from your bonus action up to 5 times per day is really not. The channel divinity options could have easily been just one feature instead of two, and it would still be worse than preserve life.. For divine strike, radiant damage type is almost always better than more slash/bludg/pierce damage. War Domain gives little aside from the spell list, which is sadly only 2 must have and a few nice to have. War is an awesome theme, and the subclass delivers in theme, but not mechanically.
I like how you rate the Light domain. I've got a variant-human light cleric with the Lucky feat. It's so great being able to both force disadvantage and reroll attacks and and saving throws. It just works so great when role-playing a preacher who believes he is protected by the holy light, to the point of being reckless.
Nice work dudes! Love your assessments and couldn't agree more. Especially for the War domain. I honestly don't know why Wizards was so worried about give extra attack to the Cleric (a full caster), when there is already precedence with the Bard (also a full caster). *shrug* oh well...
I would say that, they couldve been worried about it being too much. I dont think it would make them OP, but I can see why they would shy away from it. Spirit guardians + double attack AND SPRITUAL WEAPON?? AND YOURE A TANK TOO???? I would certainly rule it as extra attack that uses your bonus action that is free of cost. So it prevents having the same attack count as an 11th level fighter at 3rd level cleric.
@@carpedm9846 Yeah, I'm running a Firbolg War Cleric right now that's sitting in Splint Mail with a Shield so I've got an 19 AC and just put Spirit Guardians up and laugh as most things can't hit me and they are taking consistent damage each turn from Spirit Guardians.
I think it has more to do with a continuity thing. All of the cleric domains get their abilities at the same level. Extra attack usually comes online at 5 or 6. So it wouldn't make sense to have one domain get it's abilities at different levels than other domains.
@@raves8451 as I always say, cleric is the last class that needs a power boost. Even wizards can use some tweaks(that 20th level ability stinks) before you touch Clerics. Bard, another fullcaster that can go melee, is a spellcasting rogue in a way. But the bard doesnt specialize in anything. It is Jack of All Trades. But that is the shortcoming of the bard. Bard doesnt specialize. Cleric on the other hand manages to specialize... on EVERYTHING. You want to tank? Congrats youre a fighter. You wanna deal damage? Inflict wounds, deadlier than any other 1st level spell. Constant dps? How about spritual weapon, uses your spellcasting ability AND can hit stuff away from you. Aoe control? Spirit guardians now no one can ever get close to you or your allies. Regeneration? You are THE healer, if you are alive for 1 more turn, you are back at full hp your only competitor is paladin using 1 point of lay on hands to stabilize people. Powerful effects that can alter the entire game? Divine intervention, more powerful than THE WISH and can not backfire. Your only drawback is having a d8 hit die.
Do this for every class in DnD, i love these types of videos and learn so much from them, not only because they can show me every possible subclass but i get to know 2 opinions at the same time, valuable, since no one at the people we play with are not that knowledgable at the game! (we still have fun though, tons)
I wonder if people like the War Domain Cleric a lot because of the consistency melee attacks bring. While a Wizard can bring a lot of firepower and crowd control with Fireball, Slow, and other similar spells, there is a bigger risk attached with that power, namely half damage or even complete spell negation on successful saves. I've never played a War Cleric before, but I think getting two attacks in during the early levels of a campaign before your fighter hits level 5 can be quite huge, especially if the DM allows your cleric to have a big weapon, such as a greatsword, greataxe, or even a glaive or halberd. It's sort of like having multiple Action Surges between long rests starting at level one. Perhaps that's why the community (myself included) thinks so highly of the War Domain Cleric
I main a war cleric. I chose this domain primarily for the flavor regarding her background. Tempest cleric wouldn't fit for this character, and I personally just don't want to play a Forge cleric. I personally can't see myself utilizing their channel divinity or having fun role playing this domain. War priest has been my biggest gripe and I've also constantly bitched that it should have been a 2nd attack to better utilize the smite you later get. [Edit, the following works fantastic in the group of players I game with (2 paladins, 1 fighter, 1 bard, 1 monk, 1 druid). YMMV] I have ended up mostly utilizing her as a tertiary tank to our Paladins and running her as more like a full caster, only using melee when I have to. I do appreciate having a bunch of spells I constantly use already prepared, which allows me to prepare spells I can utilize outside of combat. Wading into battle, in heavy armor&shield, with spiritual guardians (already prepared), casting spiritual weapon (also already prepared) as a bonus action, and utilizing my action by tolling the dead (which I gained with magic initiate (cleric) to access more cantrips) or sacred flame depending on the battle. And if I do get hit, I have war caster to make it far more likely that I succeed in keeping SG up. Also, pre-prepared Shield of Faith on a Pally with a base of 23 AC already is just broken and my DM would hate us more than he already does. Having heavy hitting combat spells already prepared can't go without a huge bonus in my book, because then you have the ability to prepare utility spells (ritual cast divination based spells, bless, heals, death ward, revivify, guiding bolt (for adv on said heavy hitting teammates), dispel magic, etc) or other heavy hitting spells (inflict wounds, Harm, basically every necro spell) to round out your spell list. Also, Hold Monster and telling the team to beat it's ass has been absolutely clutch in throwing the DMs plan awry. Is she min-maxed? No. Do I sometimes wish I went with a different domain? Sometimes, though War Gods blessing is fantastic when I know our hardest hitting player just missed the enemy. But I genuinely love playing her. In another campaign I play in while the above one is on hiatus, I rolled a Light cleric to be more of a blaster caster. As another person said in the comments, their channel divinity is radiant (not fire) damage and disspells magical darkness. It hits hard in early game with 2d10+your cleric level (full dmg on a fail, half on a success), too. It's been fun to partner up with the Wizard and blast the battle field. Also, double fireball with said Wizard. I have, however, found myself less attached to this cleric but that is likely mostly due to having played her for a significantly less amount of time as the one mentioned above and having dedicated far less time to figuring out who she is as a character fully due to knowing this is planned to be a short campaign.
In my last game, before becoming the groups GM, I was a war cleric and I loved it. Well I loved the concept. It has all the makings of a brilliant subclass, it's just lacking something. And I do think its the extra attack feature. The war cleric would be a shockingly effective character if they could swing a weapon and cast a spell. It would turn them into a frontline assault subclass that would rival the Paladin. Unfortunately it would take my character a couple of rounds to get up to full effect in combat, spiritual weapon, spirit guardians, toll the dead. But if another PC was badly hit, you'd lose a round healing them. Having the extra attack would allow the character to be effective straight away in a fight, and make it a real cleric of War.
Your conclusion on the Order Cleric was prophetic. Those spell options are here now with the inclusion of Silvery Barbs. Especially with a rogue, gaining free advantage via Silvery Barb's, triggering sneak attack.
My problem with Thunderbolt Strike, the Tempest Domain 6th level feature, is that no Cleric spells deal lighting damage, and the only spell you get that deals lightning damage is Call Lightning. The only other source that deals lightning damage is your reaction Wrath of the Storm. So unless you're multiclassing for other lightning damage spells this won't be used that much.
War domain really shines on a multiclass with a martial that has extra attack, effectively giving them three attacks by burning their bonus action. A paladin could also use the channel divinity and the extra spell slots to smite more often and ensure a crucial smite lands.
I think War Cleric should be either A or B, all of the abilities are decent. War Priest competes with Spiritual Weapon but it's still useful for those times when you don't want to use spell slots. They get both Martial Weapon and Heavy Armor which is the best martial Proficiency (some only get one or the other). Channel Divinity is great +10 is a huge bonus and it's an "attack roll" which means spell attack rolls also count. And you get to decide after seeing the roll, and most of the time you'll have an idea whether the +10 would matter or not, so in practice the +10 bonus is almost more than once per channel divinity. At level 1 that can be a Guiding Bolt or Inflict Wounds, which normally is a bad spell, but with +10 bonus that's almost always gonna hit which makes these spells suddenly a great reliable damage spell. If you also take Feats like Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master suddenly you get one attack with +5 attack roll +10 damage. At level 6 it doesn't even have to be you dealing the damage, so you can give it to your Sharpshooter/GWM Fighter or a blaster caster,which means you can focus on other Cleric things and take other Feats or ASIs. The domain spells is decent, but most notable is that they have both Spirtual Weapon and Spirit Guardians which all damage Clerics would take anyway, meaning you'd get extra spell options since you basically get a free "tax" on these spells. Magic Initiate or a Dip in a class with Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade makes makes a decent damage dealer. BB/GFB + Spiritual Weapon on level 5 deals more damage than two weapon attacks that martials without Polearm Master or Crossbow Expert usually get. At level 8 you get another slight damage increase (it works with BB/GFB). And that's just single target damage, with Spirit Guardians that also a lot of AoE damage, which I think the Cleric does best. Granted this is not unique to War Cleric but also other Martial Clerics.
That's a very good point with GFB and BB...I didn't even think about doing that. My DM already hates my War Cleric, he has become quite the damage sponge, I wonder if this will push him over the edge.
Great video as always - definitely leaning toward B for Nature Cleric because of the powerful control elements of the subclass (and that, in perhaps a hot take, makes it one of the best control mages generally in 5e at early/mid levels). The spells that you gain grant automatic bonuses that you can count on with absolute certainty: 1) Spiked Growth (potentially with Plant Growth) to grant quartered speed + difficult terrain (no save to avoid) with damage for each tile (no save to reduce) as long as the opponent walks through it. So any walking creature will be battered up (not to mention able to be shot by cleric spells and other party members) for a long time. 2) Wind Wall grants an automatic failure to non-siege/boulder ranged weapons through the wall, shielding the party against archery at all tiers of play as long as they're not using siege weaponry. 3) If enemies come riding in on horses, direwolves, sharks, etc., you charm them and have them run away. Suddenly cavalry are not an issue. And all of this gets added to the standard cleric array that you can take for control (like Hold Person, Destroy Undead Channel Divinity feature, etc.). So while yes, it's probably not an A subclass, it does create one of the best control mages in the game coupled with the buffing/supporting magic innate in the cleric.
I like a lot, how you put yours ranking list and community rankings in the end of the video, and not after each subclass. It is much more convenient and easy to compare now. Good job!
i would... love to see this with sorcerer subclasses but i get the feeling id get defensive over my one true love, divine soul sorcerers (as someone who loves to be both support and full arcane spellcaster this one GETS me)
8:10 on the nature cleric channel divinity - its definitely kinda bad. But, if you've got a DM that is willing to work with you, it can be slightly more than situationally useful. I've had a nature cleric use their channel divinity in the middle of a mill and the DM allowed a roll to see whether there were rats and bats in the vicinity to charm - which there were, suddenly coming out of the woodwork. And any sort of campaign that includes overland travel - the channel divinity can be useful for bypassing dangers, calming or stopping spooked animals like horses, etc. etc. The options to pick a druid cantrip also isn't limited to just shillelagh - I've seen melee oriented characters use thorn whip to great effect - pulling creatures away from allies, or pulling them into the areas of effect of things like spirit guardians. Or, Xanathars offers a huge number of extra cantrips you can now tap from - from frostbite, to create bonfire, to gust, and more.
I like to rank the trickery domain S tier too, I think no party will ever have enough spell slots to cast polymorph. But unfortunately this is D&D and you rarely need creativity or skill to play and have fun, so I just really can't say it is as good as I see them.
Just want to say really great job guys! I especially appreciated that you kept the subclasses from part 1 on the tier list to help contextualize all of the rankings
I’ve always wanted to try playing a war domain cleric but every time I start putting it together I talk myself into just playing a Fighter or another front line cleric like Forge.
In my experience, War Cleric really shines the best when multi-classed with Fighter or another class that gives access to the Extra-Attack feature. Of course, that's usually at least a five level dip, so the combo is going to take a while to get going, but when it does, man is it effective.
I can understand deciding to go Forge over War but there is still good stuff there. Keep in mind as a cleric your "extra attack" comes from spiritual weapon with your bonus action but that War Priest feature comes in handy when your spiritual weapon is too far away from something that it can attack. Also, guided strike says "when you make an attack roll" which means it applies to melee, ranged and spell attacks. One of the strengths of the cleric class is being able to do any of those. A cleric that is played well will out damage a fighter, however it does take a couple rounds to set up.
Having finished now both videos, it would seem that the Cleric has the enviable position of being a class that can be roleplayed without a min/max problem. Bravo!
I’m relatively new to DND and I wanted to play a Cleric character, thanks to these videos I went with Tempest Domain Cleric. I took a some inspiration from what y’all said and gave my Cleric a different backstory than most making him a former sailor who dedicated his life to serving Thor after he saved his ship from being destroyed in a storm. So he willingly took to serving Thor but mostly due to not wanting to die. We start next week and I can’t wait to get into the role playing and the combat aspect of this character.
I wish Light Domain Cleric got something like adding Wis to their Fire and Radiant damage spells instead of their Potent Spellcasting (similar to Draconic Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity)
I have played 2 tempest domain clerics in short term low-level campaigns and both of them were amazing. I took out an entire goblin hovel with a well-placed shatter using destructive wrath. 24 damage (maxed out 3d8) with a DC 14 con save for half just killed all but 1 of the goblins (who I couldn't get into the area), and next round (after the rest of my party had some crappy rolls) I finished it off with my warhammer.
Keep up the good works guys, I love watching your vods and comparing it to how I personally rank the classes, and you always bring up some great points that make me want to play a sub class I wasn't considering before.
Played a one shot as a sixth level Trickery Domain Cleric a few weeks ago, synergized it with a Changeling for my race and Charlatan for my background together all of those made for some of my favorite and definitely awesome RP opportunities and decent combat use as well.
I'm playing a Light Domain cleric in a current campaign, and the improved Warding Flare after 6th level has saved our party's butts against several combat encounters. Especially when it prevents a critical hit. I have loved playing it.
My Trickery cleric disguises self as a naked homeless man and then invokes duplicity to streak across the city's capital building. S-tier just for this
Probably the most significant feature of the war cleric that I've noticed is that their multi attack feature comes online immediately. At mid-level play your assessment is accurate, but before level 5, war domain really stands out as a premium front line option, outpacing most fighers or even barbarians, especially interms of survivability via healing spells
Playing a war cleric, I started using the War Priest feature in a dungeon delve where you tend to have more smaller combats without a long rest. Being able to save spiritual weapon for bigger fights without losing damage is a bless.
Great videos guys. I look forward to your stuff. In the vid, you ask us to describe why we like War Clerics. Kelly touched on one key aspect, and that is that because we automatically get the cool battle spells prepared, it leaves a lot of freedom for other generic cleric spells selections. Back that with an 18-20 Wisdom, and you have some real potent diversity from buff to utility to attack to heal. At the early levels, your divine gifts, martial weapons, and heavy armor keep you effective - almost game-changing. There is nothing like being able to go into melee, stomp an enemy, then turn around and blast another one from 120 feet away with a guiding bolt - while your Spiritual Weapon is on the other side dishing out damage. Then, at level 5, your cantrips scale-up, plus you have your default battle spells with enough slots to upcast them. Combine that with the right feats, you have a battlefield monster. So, at the end of the day, I think that clerics by themselves are awesome, but if you realize the effective uses of your divinity bonuses and when to use what, War Clerics can be battlefield powerhouses.
@Minimal Mystic what you say about her wanting to be a warlock originally makes a lot of sense. but playing her "sub-optimally"? isn't d&d really about playing your character the way you want, not planning out every move according to optimal mechanics?
@Minimal Mystic i understand what you are saying but i think you are looking at the cleric as predominantly a healer. it's been a Critical Role campaign 2 joke that Jester doesn't like to heal. Jester likes to create chaos. Which she does, brilliantly. And she also likes to do damage. Some clerics are designed to be damage dealers: forge, light, tempest clerics all have abilities oriented towards being near the front of combat. So, if she wants to cast inflict wounds, great! she touches someone, upcasts and can do 5d10 damage with a 3rd lvl spell slot. against lower CR foes that's a lot of damage. But please understand, i'm just clarifying my reasons for my views
Trickery Domain has Invoke Duplicity. Jester has definitely used her duplicate several times to cast Inflict Wounds without ever entering melee combat.
Thank you for all your good work on DD5. I'm a french fan and I much appreciate your excellent pronociation and the fact that you speak not too fast which allow us, your foreingn fans, to understand all your great contents. Kind regards 😊
I have played war domain in both one shots and a long term campaign, and they play better than you would think. I don't think that this type of cleric will need to take the attack action very often, so extra attack really isn't necessary. War priest is very nice for some burst damage, and although I use it almost every session, I have never actually run out of uses. This idea of not taking the attack action is also supported by the fact that they don't have those smite spells. But casting spells like magic weapon on your teammates can be really rewarding. This is the MMO paladin/priest aura type character. You keep your team within 30 feet of you and run spells that protect or buff them while they deal the damage. This cleric feels like it is designed to stand perfectly still while the battle rages around it. In parties with a lot of martial characters the channel divinity is fantastic (but I like the order domain for the same reason). Standing shoulder to shoulder with a zealot barbarian or pole arm wielding fighter is the best way to get this subclass to shine.
This was fantastic. As an idea for a video or even mini series, I'd suggest something like this but with a focus on "what class/subclass/domain etc" would be best for new players
How would you guys feel about homebrewing the Trickery Domain Cleric's divine strike giving psychic damage instead of poison, or would that be too powerful? The justification is imagine suffering an illusion of being hit with multiple different weapons in different locations, and not knowing which one is real, if any of them are
I was literally thinking the same thing! And no, that shouldn't be too powerful, because the Trickery domain is largely not intended to be up in melee, especially when you consider that their Duplicates can cast spells from their location. It would make those few times you get up close and personal just much more impactful.
This video also gave me a great idea for a Nature Domain Cleric... give him the entertainer background and since he has the "Druid's hand-me-downs", make him part of a Druid "cover band" named Wildshape.
For me personally, I would replace Divine Strike with Potent Spellcasting at that level. I see the Trickster as someone who would rely on their wits and spells more than their melee weapons, so it makes more sense to give them the Wisdom bonus on Cantrips that Knowledge, Arcana, Light, etc domains get rather than add bonus typed damage to melee attacks you'll never ever make anyway.
@@gabrielrockman I think Invoke Duplicity is way too good if it doesn't use your concentration. The fact that it contends with other spells makes it an interesting tactical choice you have to make, and I don't see that as a bad thing.
Another Light Domain correction: The ability to impose disadvantage on saving throws has unlimited uses, not once per day. I guess you meant the Channel Divinity feature though. Anyone else think it’s weird the Tempest Domain gets Insect Plague?
Note the Light Domain Cleric's Radiance of Dawn feature does Radiant damage, not fire damage. It also makes the Light Cleric the best blaster in the game in the lower levels.
Thunderous Strike "this pairs really really well with your spells" umm... no. no it doesnt. youve got exactly 2 spells that deal lightning damage as a tempest cleric, and one of those is glyph of warding. at best you can say it pairs well with your spell (singular) because Call Lightning is the only time you are actively and intentionally using Thunderous Strike.
i believe it is mostly for the wrath of the storm ability, to be able to push off an attacker right after they hit you, could be useful in a lot of cliff or bridge side situations, even better if the attacker used their movement to get into melee range, you push them back so they cant come right back. great for enemies with multi attack cause now they cant use the rest of their melee attacks on you if they hit with the first attack. pretty situational yes but it does come up.
@@Toyall1 It could also be solid if you manage to get your hands on a Shock/Lightning weapon. I don't know if those are still a standard item in 5e but there's no reason they shouldn't be craftable.
@@ryuteki @James Hardie Both of you are correct. There are weapons that deal lightning damage and items like the Ring of Shooting Stars and Javelin of Lightning...but what you really want is the Staff of Thunder and Lightning and Wand of Lightning Bolt. Which adds many more lightning spells to your list. Tempest Domain should really just have Lightning Bolt, but it doesnt, which means you need to work on Thunderous Strikes options with the DMs loot. (And yes, Thunderous Strike works with ALL Lightning damage, so your little Wrath thing pushes enemies back too.)
I was very curious to see where some of these ended up and i was not let down with your breakdown across the 2 cleric videos. Like yourselves am happy to see the class really does not have a dead option just maybe options not so great as others. I also found it interesting that no other class yet and maybe ever will had you wanting to rank at letter with + or - another example of how well the cleric class does.
I know the Knowledge domain should have at least been a B rating. The 6th level channel divinity is one of the most interesting and powerful (Even more so if you take 2 levels in wizard and pick divination then you can literals force someone to fail the save with your portent role) plus getting 2 bones proficiency and languages at level one is huge. Also identify, suggestion and confusion are dope spells to have. They seem to favor domains that have more combat focused abilities rather than role play options.
@@fortunatus1 that and you get wizard cantrips that count as cleric cantrips which means they benefit from potent spell casting, if you take ones that deal damage. But I do agree that some of the domain spells aren't that great I would have loved if they gave you spells like counter spell and bigby's hand (Cleric don't really get a lot of bonus action or reaction abilities)
@@brittanyanderson97 The level 6 Arcana domain feature is actually really powerful. "When you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher, you can end one spell of your choice on that creature." [edited] If you cast Mass Healing Word or Mass Cure Wounds, you can remove a spell from each of those allies. If your group is hit by a fear spell or hypnotic pattern, you can mass heal and remove it from everyone in the group. Underrated feature, imo.
@@fortunatus1 actually that's not how it works. Starting at 6th level, when you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher, you can also end one spell of your choice on that creature. . The healing spell has to meet the level of the effect so you would need a 8th level healing spell to match a 8th level spell and it only effects on creature at a time!
I really like this approach in terms of community ranking. A lot more respectful and make it clear that your view might be biased on certain ways (maybe over critical for the purpose of making lists). Thank you for listening to the feedbacks.
I just started playing a couple of months ago and the tempest domain cleric was my first pic and it’s been a blast to use all the the low level features the reaction at low level is so amazing to use especially when it finishes of a foe. Number 1 in my book.
I am playing a war cleric, and one of my favorite things about it is being able to do a lot of different things. Shield of Faith can be used as a support spell as can magic weapon and the potential for healing support is really high because of the spells that you automatically get. Spells like Aid are great before a fight, and as a war domain cleric you are getting real close to an enemy and making yourself the focus which makes spells like Healing Word and Mass Healing Word real nice as you don't need to be right on top of someone to cast them. Also Shield of Faith and Spiritual Weapon can be used together because while Shield of Faith is a concentration spell Spiritual Weapon is not. Which came in real handy in the boss encounter at 3rd level when I took on a real nasty enemy on my own and survived thanks to bringing my AC up to 20 and letting me attack twice per turn.
I love your content as both a player by choice and a DM by necessity, so hopefully you guys will find this helpful. Try looking at the other person when they are talking. This will help emphasize that the person has something important to say and will help you feel less awkward about trying to find a place to look while you aren't talking. Thanks guys, keep up the great work!
