Climbers Over-Complicate Pullup Training 

Baaa

Amen sis. … let’s go for a walk!

Injury. Nearly fully recovered but a minor compensation can still be noted, more so with higher loads. And some movement patterns that developed as a compensation. Nothing that has had a significant / negative impact on my overall performance, though.

Start with negatives, from the "up" position, and trying to lower yourself, with control. You can do reps of these to build strength!

I couldn't do a pull up for my whole life too before I started climbing. But after like a few months of climbing i can do a few pullups at least!

@@nekomancer4641 that's awesome! After more than a year of bouldering on and off, i started sending my first few V4's including an overhang one that depended on a big powerful move up to a crimp (maybe tmi but I was psyched haha), still can't do even one pullup lmao

You can use pull-up resistance bands, and/or start with negatives, where you get into the finish position using a step stool or something, then lower yourself down with as much control as possible.

Climbing is chaotic and very inconsistent loading of your muscles and ligaments. Training is much more controlled and you can adjust the load easily.

Great question! And truly the answer can be "it depends", because it depends on the individual and their training. Yes, finger training is almost always recommended prior to a session because you don't want to do it at the end when you're quite fatigued. But... what if you use very light climbing as a warm up to a finger training session, is that OK? Certainly. And what happens to your fingers during climbing if you have a hard finger training session? Well, you should certainly expect to focus more on technique and perhaps not your absolute limit climbing. I don't often recommend someone do a max finger training and then immediately go into projecting, and I think we can intuitively agree that if you are projecting you are trying to save some of that strength to complete the hard climb :) The same can be said with weight training. You could use climbing as a gentle warm up and do strength at the end, or you could have a really solid climbing session, and then do strength training on an off day or at the end (adjusting the weights to meet your needs on that particular day). But, in this situation with max strength weighted pull-ups, it would likely detract from a productive powerful climbing session if it were done in the beginning, and that would take away from the goal IF the goal of that session was to have a hard climbing session. If, on the other hand, you combine strength training in the beginning with a moderate climbing day where you're more focused on technique and/or flashing moderate routes, then that's OK. So, as you can see, there is a lot of variability in the approach. I hope that helps clear it up a bit!

Edit: lol Jason and I responded at the same time. I'll leave my response below for another perspective. Plenty of people do their strength training before climbing and it can work out just fine. It can even have some benefits, as you mentioned. On the other hand, for people who aren't as experienced with climbing and training, their main priority should usually be quality climbing sessions, and they will be more prone to compromising those climbing sessions with strength training because 1. they don't know how to manage load as well and 2. they haven't build up a high work capacity. So, for a lot of people, doing some or all strength training after climbing is a good way to ensure that your strength training remains supplemental to your climbing (rather than taking center stage). Also, I don't necessarily think it's a good thing for your climbing sessions to vary massively in exertion unless you're doing it for a specific purpose (e.g. one day for low-effort technique training, one power training day, one endurance day, etc.) -- but less experienced climbers are less likely to be programming their sessions that specifically, in which case inconsistent sessions will simply lead to inconsistent results. (Finger training is a bit different and should almost always be done before climbing in my opinion.) Hope that answers some of your questions! -Emile

Thank you both for your in depth responses! You both brought up important nuances to consider. Thanks again for taking the time to respond :)

It doesn’t work like that I’m afraid, at least not for strength training. However, there are other options, such as assisted one-arm pull-ups, one-arm lock-offs (aka isometrics), or just improvising weights with water jugs, concrete blocks, etc. -Emile

50% external load

I've never heard about anyone doing a pull-up with +150%, sounds crazy. I know Emil did a +100kg pull-up which should amount to about 130%. This is already astonishing

I was like weight a second I need to do 300 lbs added on? Holy shit lmao

If that’s your only option it can definitely work! It’s a bit narrower than I prefer for most people but you can still make progress and ideally eventually switch to one-arm training.

50% added to your normal body weight = 150% body weight.

You can do it!

@@HoopersBeta in one pull, or in a set like 5 reps in 4 sets?

​@@stanislavgladkih1507in a set of 3-6 reps like he described for training

look into strength vs hypertrophy. the number of reps/sets will depend on your goals. in general, sticking to low-rep 'strength sets' will yield results climbers want.

he said sets, not reps. i would say 5 sets a week in one day is good enough to maintain strength, and 3 sets in a day twice a week is good to gain!

@@rubentandy7654 thank you - good info. Cheers also for recognising the nature of my question. Always interesting to hear what the climbing community finds works for them. Especially given that we add hard boulder sessions or board training and hence it's often more complicated than a conventional gym approach.

Lots of ways! You can use a pulley or resistance band for assistance, or do eccentric lower-downs (aka just the lowering portion of the pullup)

Thanks for chiming in! I'm a little unclear on what you're saying. Regarding your first point: Getting better at "training numbers" is how we progress strength exercises. If you don't progress the exercises (numbers), you won't get better at them, meaning they won't help you climb better. Regarding your next point: If you're not recovering between sessions, you're not managing the load well (too much load or not enough recovery time in between) -- this is regardless of the type of training you're doing (strength, endurance, power, etc). Regarding your last point: I agree, targeting weak spots can be useful and isometrics are convenient for that! 🤙 -Emile

FYI on one arms and other similar exercises, Chris Heria recommends working eccentrics as progression, ie. Two hand pull up, and lower on one.

@@HoopersBeta I guess I was thinking unclear in trying to make the point that I have seen lots of climbers over the years who got better at some training exercise while not getting better at climbing itself. If you develop the ability to to do a one arm pullups on a 10 mm edge; but are still falling off the easier climbing on a route with a low crux; that trained ability is not helping you climb better. I have seen multiple climbers climb harder after they " lost" the ability to do one arm/ one finger pullups; and got stronger cores; better footwork; less "over pulling" done because they were so strong; learning how to rest. As you well know; the body adapts to the specific training one does; so at a certain point; one often can just get better at " training." I have seen multiple 5.12/13+ climbers who could do one arm/ one finger pullups; fall on 5.5/6slab. ( The Trough at Big Rock) And they realized they didn't need stronger fingers; and more hangboarding; but better footwork . ( And I was guilty of some of this myself; I could do more crack machine pullups than Yaniro; but he could out climb me. When I was hanging on my arms to rest my legs; it dawned on me that maybe getting out a few more reps on the hangboard/ crack machine was not going to improve my overall climbing; and may be actually hindering it.

@@Kushibunny Not typically a fan of these personally, but they can be pretty handy as a supplement in moderation.

@@danielbeall7725 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hByjG7mymdw.html

A 150% bodyweight pullup means you’re pulling up your body plus an additional 50% of your body weight

@@HoopersBeta thanks.

150% bodyweight pullup means you add 50% of your bodyweight to yourself with weights, so in your example, 30kg+BW

Correct, that was when I was still rehabbing from an injury myself which produced an asymmetry.

150% bodyweight means 100% of your bodyweight + another 50%. So if you weigh 140lbs, a 150% bodyweight pull up would mean attaching 70lbs to yourself.

You could try strengthen retracting the shoulders in dead hangs.

try scap shrugs to build strenth, and during pullups try bringing you chest to the bar as a form cue

local muscular endurance, meaning the pulling muscles are not as accustomed to working in this taxed state, and there is a skill and pacing element as well. my max pullups has actually decreased recently to below 20, but at that time I was working on one arm pullups. now, one arms are "easy" but I cannot do 20 pullups. a few sessions reducing the weight and increasing repetitions nearer to failure and you will see your numbers increase quickly, but this will cause more need to recover post session and may not have the transfer to the wall you want.

@@zacharylaschober tnx. don’t know about the transfer to the wall. A bit more endurance for my power will help me be stronger for longer. Otherwise it’s a one shot thing every time. I don’t think that being able to do more pullups in a row would make me lose the one arm ability. And i usualy take one or 2 days of in between trainings so that should be enough to recuperate.

Lower is more strength specific. Higher reps will still provide a strength stimulus, but will also provide more of a hypertrophy stimulus which isn't as ideal for a highly relative-strength base sport.

@@Noshuas Valid point, however lower rep ranges are harder to maintain over long periods of time due to the intense demands on the nervous system and will likely produce plateaus. By opting to increase the rep range to 5-8 you offset this problem and are able to make consistent gains across much longer periods of time. As for muscle growth, that primarily will come down to dietary choices and calorie counting. In other words, the dirtbag ramen noodle diet might not be a bad idea if you're concerned about muscle growth but still want to make gains over the long term.

I think they mean 50% on top of your bw

@Swainix 150% of your bodyweight is the same thing as 50% 'on top'

@@personperson2380 yeah ik I wanted to make it clearer for the person above me but it sounds like I didn't understand it reading my comment now lol

So if I weigh 200 I should aim to have 100lb hang from my waist till I move to one arm?

@@jevenator yeah series of 4 to 6 pull ups with 100 lbs hanging under you

Water jugs, make your own weights, or do one-arms with a band

@@HoopersBeta also what are the differences between harder exercises and weights like how's it work

But they are stronger to begin with. So much so that you don't really have to strength train them. If someone says you should use your legs more he usually means your technique needs improvement not that you should train your legs.

150% bodyweight means you’re pulling your bodyweight + an extra 50%, for 150% of your bodyweight in total. So a 150% bodyweight pull-up for a 150lb person would mean bodyweight+75lbs.

He means +50% body weight, so if I’m 100 lbs I would do pull-ups with weight until I could do 5 reps with a 50lb dumbbell and then move onto 1 arm pull-ups

It’s just a rough guideline, so it doesn’t matter that much.