Would it not be better to have Duck on top? Would the Duck hold if micro trax failed and came in contact with top of Duck? I have always been told to put micro trax on bottom. Feel free to chime in.
Nice setup! I have a suggestion to improve the safety of your system: when you're transitioning to the Grigri, you don't get a chance to fully weight it before committing to it. If something went wrong (maybe the grigri isn't clipped in), you could improve your odds by clipping the catastrophe knot loop that you're already tying into your belay loop. You'd go for a ride but it would keep you off the deck
I’m not exactly sure what you are referring can you reply with a time stamp? Just by reading your comment I think even in the event the gri gri is load incorrectly, the catastrophe knot would still stop you as it would be sucked into the system. I also usually like to have some sort of PAS system in place before fully committing to the gri gri.
Okay so I reviewed it and your a right, having a pas in place before weighting the system would be safer. However, in this situation the catastrophe knot would protect against improper loading of the gri gri but clipping it to my belay loop would make it a bombproof system. Thanks for the comment!
For others: 5:33 is a rough time stamp. Yeah, a backwards grigri would be okay, but if you didn’t clip in (apparently this occasional happens to people!) you’d plummet to your death Clipping the loop made at 5:33 to your belay loop is exactly what I’m thinking
Reasonable setup. However with all of the safety considerations here you should really be equalising the top anchor between those two bolts. If the single point were to fail you would be potentially be putting alot of force on to you rope which, in this setup, with that length of rope between the two points could very possibly cause sheath tear. Just my 5 cents.
You make a good point, however, in this situation, there was no way I'd be able to generate the force necessary to even consider bolt failure. I was also using a unicore rope so even if some freak stuff happened and a new amount of slack was introduced into the system, the chances are the rope would not desheath. Again even if it did, I use a nontoothed device as my secondary device so that in the case of desheathing I wouldn't fall and die lol
@@climbingforlife1 I agree with the comment. Rope access technician background. Bunny ears would be a good solution. The loop connecting the two anchors is enough to cause considerable shock. Probably nothing will happen, but not worth the risk. Stay safe
Be careful about using the CAMP Lift as a secondary device. If your Micro Traxion fails or is not engaged, it will slide down the rope and hit the cam of the Lift, also disengaging that device. It would be better to have the Lift on top with the Micro Traxion underneath, because a Micro Traxion cannot be disengaged from something sliding down on top of it like the Lift can.
It will think about it. The kong duck works by compression so even if the sheath is not attached or even present, it will still catch. Or at least that is the theory.
I have anchored to a tree but usually only to get to the anchors themselves. The anchors are usually very easily visually inspectable and if i see they are rusty ill either not use them or make a full on equalized anchor. SERENE
Yes this would be ideal, however, I was lazy and both bolts are bomber. There a very very small forces being applied and the system was still redundant
@@climbingforlife1 honestly just a permanently tied quad with a locker on either end, lives on the back of your harness except for trad. Will save you time.
@@mitchellbaker4806 Yeah again if this were literally any other situation like a trad anchor,slightly sketchy bolts etc id probably use an actual load distributing anchor, however, even on big walls this is how you'd fix the line for your partner.
Or rabbit ears. Nice video. I think I may have placed those anchors myself back in the day when Ranger Dennis gave SCC permission to start replacing all the tree anchors with bolt anchors. Tons of different systems like this out there, and lots of bickering on Mountain Project about what's best. I prefer my Microtraxion above my Nanotraxion on-a-locking-quickdraw since I don't like the chest harness in my face, but I realize it would be a bit of a slam down to the nano if it failed. My system does allow and easy mid-air transfer to GriGri without the need for a catastrophe knot however. Other useful tips: 1. You can disable the lockout feature on the micro by filing off the little tab on the cam. 2. The little dude on the GriGri? His name is Conrad. Conrad is your Anker ⚓. Remember that and you'll never misthread again.
Great video man! Most people just climb up but you explain everything really well. Question: If you were rapping down and wanted to retrieve the rope at the bottom what setup would you use? I was thinking of having the rope through the top rings with an alpine butterfly and a biner at the top and rapping down the one side. At the bottom just pull on the other side to retrieve the rope. What's your method?
I’d probably just double rope rapell but I think you are asking what I’d do if I wanted to use a gri gri? I’d just rap down the same single line I’m using to rope solo
@@climbingforlife1 If you had 2 bolts up on the top of the cliff what setup would you use up top for a single rope rap down and single tope rope solo back up? You think one rope over a rock edge is safe as well? I'm going to use some kind of rope protection. Also probably using a dynamic rope. Or should I use my static rope just for a day of TRS?
@@derelictfpv After writing this I realize I have written a short essay lol but I think I answered your questions thoroughly. There are pros and cons to using a static and dynamic rope for top rope solo. I'd like to make it very clear, however, you should NEVER use a static rope to lead rope solo. You probably know this but I just gotta say it. Static ropes can be nice if you have your setup dialed as when you are loading a static rope it doesn't stretch so there is no sawing action on the edge of a rock. However, a dynamic is good because it distributes the wear over say a foot of rope due to rope stretch making it safer in some environments. Dynamic Is also good so if you fall a few inches it creates less force on your main device and will give a softer catch. Although again at the end of your rope right off the ground you should try not to fall because you will have a full rope length between you and the anchors making it stretch a ton, creating the possibility of a ground fall. But at this point, I'm just going in circles. So, I'd just recommend a dynamic rope. Personally, I use a Beal 10mm Unicore dynamic rope as it is pretty much the safest you can get without just increasing the diameter of the rope. I use a unicore rope as a fear of rope soloing with toothed devices is desheating your rope, but if you have a good setup it SHOULD be virtually impossible to create enough force to desheathe your rope in the first place. Still, I use a unicore rope. I do own a rope protector and would recommend being careful with your rope but a rope over an edge will not always require padding. Use your best judgment. The loading and unloading of a rope can quickly and easily cut a rope on a sharp edge but it all depends on angle, rock type, conditions, etc... Again, use your best judgment. As for my ideal setup in a basic format, I'd recommend creating a simple anchor with a sling or something that follows the principles of good anchor building. Safe, efficient, redundant, equalized, no extension. I only used a big wall style of fixing a rope for a second because I knew the bolts were absolutely bomber. Anything less and I would have made an anchor. I will continue to do things this way but I don't want to recommend it. Tie a figure 8 at the end of the rope and using 2 opposite and opposing locking carabiners clip it into the masterpoint of the anchor. Just as a word of caution you should always be tied in somewhere when working near the edge of a cliff. I should note it may be a good idea to use an auto-locking carabiner as the weird tensioning and untensioning of a rope when working a route, can create vibrations that rattle a locking carabiner open. Rap down with a gri gri or atc and place directioanl pieces to keep your rope above you and close to the wall. Then, tie a weight like a water bottle or the rest of your rack to the bottom of your rope using a clove hitch about a foot off the ground to keep your devices from pulling up slack rather than sliding up the rope. Next, rope solo or jumar up, and clean like any other anchor. Walk away. If you have any other questions just comment away I love helping people! Hope this help! - Tim
@@climbingforlife1 That's awesome! thanks for all the tips and the "essay" 😂 Tim! 🙏🍺🍺I have both a dynamic and static rope. The static I use to climb trees but I have yet to use the dynamic at the cliff and will only use dynamic for rock climbing. I have all my gear ready to go but I'm taking it slow and testing my gear at home and on small inclines. I'm going to use a Taz Lov2 and a Kong duck for backup for LRS and TRS, also going to use backup knots.
Nice video. I have a very similar system but with an edelrid spoc and kong duck. I have the duck as my primary, however, with the spoc as a back up. I use a Petzl chest harness to keep the Duck high but only because I already had it.
Interesting! I don’t see any issues with your setup at face value but I’d have to do some tinkering so I’m not gonna say anything definite other than I hope you benefitted from my video! Also, using a chest hanress is only to keep your primary device oriented high in the system to reduce fall force on your rope, however realistically the fall force is still minimal. Stay safe!
Ok this is a late comment but I am very curious about your thoughts on cleaning the route. With all that weight tied down at the bottom, how do you typically go about cleaning off the anchors to rappel after TR soloing to the top? In this situation it's obviously easier to just top out and clean up from the top and walk down, but if hiking out the back isn't an option and you have to rappel back down, what's your move?
Well first id like to say that you woulnt be able to set up the top rope solo without having top access. However, if i really had to rap off for some reason the weight woulnt be a problem. You just use jsut enough weight maybe like 2-3 pounds of stuff to keep the rope from being pulled up. You could very easily just pull up the weight from the top with no issues at all and then rap off like normal.
Yes however I knew it was super easy and the way I did it was really just a backup to soloing. If it were anything harder I’d go into an actual lead rope solo setup or I’d have a fix line going from the anchor to the top.
@@climbingforlife1 Totally agree here, I wanted to ask because nobody talks about topping out and the potential danger of it when top rope soloing. Also agree that setting a fixed line would be the most correct way to mitigate the risk of the fall. Good job with the video.
@@sdrawkcabtidaersiporfavor9164 I plan on making a video of "Top Rope Solo | Advanced techniques" I really created this video just to give viewers a very basic idea of how it all works and nothing more. So, in the next video ill go over everything about top rope access, continuing to the top after reaching the anchors, rebelays, redirects, etc...
Would you recommend doing catastrophe knots for the rappel? Or did you do the catastrophe knot as a back up because you knew you were going to top out? I'm trying to imagine the video assuming you rappeled rather than topped out.
I only tied the catastrophe knot to be able to use the gri gri hands-free. Gri Gris fail and people treat them like they don't. If I were rappelling it would be fine not to have backup knots with a gri gri, but with an ATC, I'd use a third hand of sorts.
Thanks so much for the reply man. One further question I would really appreciate your feedback on. How would you feel about a single rope strand set up consisting of two microtraxions? TIA and looking forward to your future content.@@climbingforlife1
@@danielguerravillarreal6302 Okay so, In my personal opinion this is totally fine. I don't use this setup just for piece of mind but Ive heard of many people doing it this way. There are many ways of making this setup safer such as using unicore ropes and such but it is likely fine with a normal rope. Obvisouly, I'm just some random guy on the internet sitting behind his laptop so take my advice as just guidance. You could also make your setup safer using two isolated strands so if one somehow gets desheathed the other is okay.
Bro having redundancy is key. What if your duck gets jammed open by the rock, your shirt, etc? You should seriously consider just adding a micro traxion
Far from simple. You physically correct an attachment issue while climbing. At some point while climbing you develop slack. Danger Will Robinson. Just say no to chest harnesses.The Duck won't lock if loaded while cross loaded.@@climbingforlife1
Doesn't matter what I use - your system does not run freely building slack in the system; you have a poor attachment to your top device (which you manually adjust at least once). Climb is less than one rope length, you could be using two strands. All chest harness systems compromise freedom of movement. All systems with two devices on one rope introduce unforeseen issues.@@ZerolinGD
