In this weeks project, we do some custom clutch modifications for a motorcycle as per the customers request. A little bit of measuring, lathe work, and mill work. Hope you guys enjoy. Adam
I learn so much from your videos. Even something simple, like how to ensure the part is running true and concentric with the axis of the lathe. It is something a novice like myself might overlook. But it can make a huge impact on how the final product performs to the customers needs. Thanks
Hi Adam, I came across your channel about a month ago and now I am hooked on yours, Tom oxco, Keith fenner and mr. petes videos. I look forward to going through all of them and trying to remember all of what I learn from you guys. I have been a maintenance tech/ millwright/ electrical tech for 30+ years and live with the mindset of trying to learn something new every day. I am in the process of setting up a home machine shop in addition to the garage shop we already have. I must say your posts have inspired me greatly and given me some good ideas. I really like your down to earth attitude and common sense approach to the work that you do. Also the value that you put on family heritage, is awesome, the respect and recognition of your dad and grandads tools, time and skills that they crafted over years of hard work and busted knuckles is really cool to me, you don't see that much any more. My condolences to you on the recent passing of your dad, I enjoyed seeing him in some of the videos. I have spent 25 years teaching and sharing all that I know and have learned with my son and am proud to say that he also works in the trade as a machinist in a small shop that specializes in deep hole drilling. Our home shop is used for projects we work together on, mostly race cars, we drag race and cruise around in and a few other things for family and close friends. Any way i know this is a little long winded but I wanted to let know Thanks for your time and thanks for keeping the tradition alive. I will send you some pics this spring when we get the machines powered up, your new friend Mannie.
Mannie, good to hear from you. I appreciate your nice comments. It sounds like you and your son have a great working relationship together. Its nice to hear that other families are as close as I was with mine. I really miss my dad and can only wish I spent more time with him. Its interesting to hear about the deep hole drilling your son does. I would like to know more about that machines he runs. Im in the works of setting up one of our lathes to do deep hole drilling. I have parts to install but haven't gotten to it yet. Thanks for the story and great comments Mannie. Adam
watching you getting the inside run out on the four jaw in the speed that you did was a thing of beauty, i don't get to use the 4 jaw nearly enough, outstanding adam
Awesome Job as always Adam! I love watching all you guys. As a hobby machinist myself I have learned so much and that's something most people have to pay for but you and the rest of the guy's Tom,John,Mr pete, and the other's. Thanks much! Dennis
Good to see there are still proper machinists around One comment on drilling on size holes without using a reamer I find if you take the sharp edge off the drill point with a stone and go thru the part you are drilling fairly quickly you get a nice tight hole
Great job Adam, as you said, you are doing what the customer has asked of you, boy am I finding out that people don't always like that...... Nice work as always, much luck to your friends team on race day! Mike
Does the local F.D know when you are filming? It just seems that they take great joy in tootling their horns outside your gaff. Have you thought about putting out a sign saying 'S.T.F.U - I'm working here!'?
Colin, glad you enjoyed it. Theres not many guys in town that like to spend time with these small jobs so they come to me. Good stuff for my little home machine shop.
nice little job adam my dad used to build race bikes in the 60's and 70's for the lads around here where i live now the all used to race at croft circuit the track is still in use today they have rounds of the British touring cars now held on there keep up the great videos
Thanks Andy, Rob Sr has been in business since the 70's here and used to do alot of racing. Now his son Rob is taking the checkered flags and bringing home trophys.
I like your choice on using a Reamer on the holes in the aluminium Looks like they are removing the springs from it.. they are there to absorb the shock of the clutch when it engages at least that is how the work on a clutch disc in a car
Yea its another one of those jobs that I don'y pry in too deep. I just make sure that I'm doing the work they want, and if it breaks because of the mods thats on there end.
They work the same as in a car. But for some reason, and I've seen it first hand, the spring type shock absorbers on race bikes really like to break the springs and send little shrapneled hunks of spring throughout the engine to wreak all kinds of mechanical havoc.
+George Robartes Don't think there's much that could be done about the shipping costs between UK and US unless a high volume route like China has gets established, but they could sure as fuck get rid of these fucking import/export tariffs. I fail to see how they "protect" local industries that aren't here any more.
The springs help on pull away(clutch release) and down shifting through the gears, when you get to the lower gears 2nd and 1st you'll notice they're not there. But for a track bike well that won't matter
Hi Adam... Great video, really enjoyed! Myself as a novice when you described the job I thought "how would I complete this"....My brain said vertical mill, so I was surprised when you had the part in the lathe. Well I guess I didn't think of the lathe since my lathe is much smaller, but with that said can you explain the merits of the lathe vs the mill for facing the part? This is the cool part of watching, learning and understanding methods of work, setups and reasons so I can apply when I have a similar required setup....this is something you can't read in a book but can learn from an expert! Thanks Chuck
Chuck, thanks for watching and the comments. I went with the lathe because I wanted to make sure the face of the lugs were flat with the face where the sprocket sits. As I shown in the video, it was only a few thousandths off when I started indicating, so realistically, I could have clamped it in the mill and done it that way too. But lathe work is more fun....Right?? LOL If I can safely swing a part in a lathe, thats usually the route I will take. Looks like you need to make room for a bigger lathe! Thanks for the nice comment. Always a pleasure hearing from you. Adam
Well Adam looks like this ole goat stepped in it again. I posted on a previous Sat Nite Spec about you smiling. Seems I must have started watching your chan just after your loss of dad. I deeply regret saying anything that was out of line. I don't take anyones losses lightly. I started realizing how much interest I had in mach work about 15 years ago. But in my day patience was not in order. Big big fan
No harm here Gary. I had a few sad weeks, and still feeling emotional but I've been doing much better and just trying to keep trucking along. Thanks for your support, and thank you for watching the videos. I'm glad you enjoy them.
Nice job Adam! Liked the setup in the lathe, I had thought why not mill it as others mentioned too! But you showed a good (and quick) way on the lathe! Do they do videos of thier bike work or races? Thanks!
A lot of people don't understand that a racing machine and a regular day to day machine are two different things. The regular machine will always be heavier, thicker built to stand up to much more abuse than the racing machine. I heard this line once from a retired racing team engineer, and he said: "in racing a machine should last only for the race anything more and then that means it's still too heavy".
Glad to see you decided to go with the reamer, instead of the drill. Why chance having the drill cut oversize, when the reamer will hit the exact size. Good choice.
Hey Adam, I wanted to see you brad those rivets. Nice and smooth as usual. I could hear that steel when you drilled it. It was right there on hardness. Talk to you soon my friend. Tom
That would have been a good job for those tiny hammers Tom! Oh well, maybe next time. That steel plate was pretty tough. Glad I didnt ruin that good ole reamer. Thanks for the comment. Always love hearing from you. Adam
Hey adam, I wondering why the customer would want it tight because behind the basket there are cylindrical dugout were the inserts go to absorb the combustion shocks from the crankshaft and so forth I would think he would need some free float to a certain degree, idk just my thoughts, btw love your work keep it up. Thanks
Got my shop fix. It is hard for me to justify warming up my shop for a couple hr. of work through the week. It is still in the 20"s here in Ohio so it takes a while to warm it up to a comfortable temp. Uses a lot of propane and wood. So I try to learn from the pro's here. Thanks
Hey Steve, we're already getting back up to short and flip flop weather here! Hell I had the fan running the other day! Almost time to get the grass cut too!
That little bit of metal removed from the clutch is likely intended to increase acceleration out of a corner. If the bike this clutch is for runs on a curvy track, that added acceleration out of the corners could make all the difference and help the rider's only view be the empty space ahead of him.
I agree with what Tom said, I wanted to see you brad those rivets too. I was sitting here trying to figure out how you were going to do it. I thought you might heat them puppies up and use your arbor press, or make a tool similar to the old rivets guns back in the day.
I didn't know you lived in Pensacola!! I lived there for a bit when I was a young teen, alot of my family is there and my little brother is there. beautiful beaches. and lots of cool custom cars and trucks. the paint jobs down there are awesome.
That was to reduce weight? How much weight was removed? It looked like maybe 15 grams to 30 grams was taken off the entire assembly. Your work was entertaining, as always. You also have some entertaining noises in your neighborhood.
The only negative comment I can think of: do NOT wear pocket tee shirts. The pockets fill up with chips and it makes thebetter half angry on laundry day. Seriously, great vid as usual!
For those who are curious as to why this job was needed, it appears that Adam was making it possible to eliminate the buffer springs from the clutch basket to reduce weight. I realize that someone else may have commented on the same subject, but I didn't read through the many other comments.
In normal use, shifting gear will be harsh for the transmission, without those springs. I think racers use the clutch only at the start. They want brute force. :-)
Probably would have reduced the inertia at least as much, but without changing any functionality, by simply cleaning up the outer rim. The parting line is clearly visible, and so there must be nothing that relies on it being a specific size.
Cool video; nice work. Do you at any time check off camera the positioning of the part in the chuck after you had taken a few interrupted cuts on the aluminum casting? Is there much chance of it moving because of the cutting tool hitting the rivet studs?
Its not typical that you check, but I could have seen if it would have moved. I've had parts move off center before and you can usually tell when it starts running off center a few thou. That Cushman was torqued down pretty snug on the housing. Thanks Jim.
Hey Adam another silly noob question, with interrupted cuts like that, Is the more tool pressure, or tool wear you need to watch On a small job probably not but on larger or longer lathe work, what would you look for, other then the finish, I would imagine the harmonics tells you more, just asking
Its not just watching, but listening too. Often you can instantly tell by the sounds that the tool and cutting makes when something changes. In heavy cutting you can often see the entire tool post and/or carraige move. After each cut its important that you check the finish to see if your getting consistant cuts or if the finish is tearing. Thanks for posting Kelly.
Adam, thanks for sharing! I would have approached the job the same way. I love my 4-jaw chuck- it is almost a permanent fixture on my Sidney lathe. Interestingly, it is a 17- inch chuck but my lathe is listed as a 14-inch model. I really like the older iron, because they always gave a few inches extra capacity. I have a bunch of photos of it on my Facebook page - Mike
Clutch without damper springs. I dont know why im hooked in watching machining stuff, it makes me want to buy a good old lathe machine. but i cant afford it. Lathe and milling machine is all i wanted.
nice job :) hope your friend does well at Daytona, will be watching for the team :) I figure he must be going with smaller buffer springs to help lighten the assy
That was probly miles thornton finished 6th in 2014 and what they were doing there is removing the damper springs from the basket the gear is usually isolated by springs to dampen clutch engagment thats what the 6 rectangular hole/slots are that have nothing in them
Jonathan Go Fast...hahaha!! We don't need no stinking damper!! We only upshift!! If you need to downshift, get a pink motorcycle!! Those downshift really soft, so as to hardly feel it!!
Interesting job. How'd the mods work out for the racing team? When are you strapping on your own helmet? We might meet up someday in the "fat guys" class .... Even with us on them, they'll still go fast enough to be scary as hell..... .
I'm sure cutting oil worked great but have you ever used kroil as a cutting fluid with a reamer? I have before and it works pretty great in operations like reaming or drilling in super hard stuff.
Hi Adam, sweet move using the drill! You guys have all been putting up some great teaching stuff things that only experience gives, and you're saving a lot of hard learned mistakes for folks, also giving them things to consider that can be used on many other applications! Thanks for sharing and all your time spent! :o] O,
Was there any feedback from the customer as to whether the clutch mods were successful.... I've never seen anyone delete the dampening springs from a motorcycle clutch before so I'm curious...
thanks adam, looks a hairy facing operation the magnesium (...cast metal) clutch basket. old school the outers were rivoted to the backing drive plate. anyway really nice work guy - how about a t-nut facing op. video
How'd he ever make out with those rivets being way to long to hammer over and get a good compression of those parts? Likely he had to cut them down for 1/8"-3/16" extension past the material for the hammer or flat/point tool to properly pull those components all together?
I've had mechanics work for me before question the instructions from the customer... I just couldn't get it thru their head it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong the customer wants it a certain way you give them whats they want end of subject if it doesnt work then thats on the customer not us... we can make suggestions however at the end of the day the customer pays the bills. just shut up and give em what they want. I like the way you approached it Adam
It's a fair point, but some customers will blame the machinist when the undamped clutch assembly invariably goes pop. It's one of those damned if you do - damned if you don't kind of things I'm afraid. This is why wherever there's any remote potential for liability involved people around here (UK) just don't want to hear about it. A few weeks ago we asked a few properly qualified machinists in a properly tooled out workshop to make 3 very simple accessories for a pressure vessel - some thread adaptors and a tee. The workshop staff at the university didn't even want to know about it after the words "pressure vessel" and "experiment" were uttered, while the other workshop held several "committee meetings" or something of the sort until we gave up on them too. I had to use a couple of beat up old lathes (with something like 5mm of runout) without an indicator dial or proper tools and hope it all fits together. Being responsible enginerds, we asked the company that makes this pressure vessel for a reasonably rated safety valve - we only have one pressure vessel and they're not cheap. They said "Oh, this particular model isn't PED compliant as it's intended to run an oxygen atmosphere. We consider a relief valve a safety hazard in that event, so we can't sell you one even though we make them. Sorry!". We did make it clear to them that there won't be any oxygen involved, but they still refused. Had to source one and make yet another adaptor... I kind of wish more people were like Adam, this liability thing gets in the way of pretty much all experimental work these days.
Adam, not sure how often you check the comments on your older videos but had a quick question for you. Why did you choose the lathe to do this operation instead of doing in all on the mill?
I enjoy using the lathe more when I can. I was able to true it up using the 4 jaw, which on this job was easier than trying to indicate it on the mill table. The facing was faster for me in the lathe also.
wow so thats your MOM shes very nice and the hubby is too No offense but are they latino cause she sure looks like a Latina I am latino from ELA I also served in the USMC 68=71 proudly Nice to see you working and on the road again Adam Hey maybe I'll start making videos so I can get presents too !!! :)) LOL Manny
Hi, I'm wondering why Robby Bobby wanted drive gear locked to clutch basket? The various recesses in clutch basket and the oversize holes in gear are for springs and dampers to help prevent damage to internal transmission gears (or at least the gear dogs) If the posts were left 0.005"~0.010" 'proud' of gear, it will still work as manufacturer intended with gear having limited rotation. BTW, I think you were 'brave' taking 0.025" first cut, basket isn't very thick and being cast alloy, relatively hard but not strong.
+1crazypj He probably is using a slipper clutch (which often uses the stock clutch basket) to dampen downshifts and deceleration. Looks as though the mechanic's idea is to remove all of the stock dampening ability of the stock clutch assembly.
Hey Adam, nice work. You should get that magnet in a few days. I do have a question, I have trammed my Tree milling machine head (both ways) and have it dead on to the table, but I use a milling vice most of the time. Should I tram the head to the vice ( it is 3 ths off one way and 4 ths off the other way compared to the table). Thanks.
i have a short question for ya. may i ask why you always use a 4-jaw mount for the lathe? even if you have circular parts. wouldn't a self-centering 3-jaw mount be more convenient for circular applications or am i not getting something here? thanks for the answer in advance!
A 4 jaw allows you to centre the piece perfectly by using a dial gauge and individually adjusting each jaw, a self centering 3 jaw won't be as accurate as you are at the mercy of the tolerances of the scroll and jaws as well as any wear in the chuck, none of which can be adjusted out.
When I don’t want use a good reamer I use a gun barrel drill bit; also know as a “Stove Burner” from Pan-American Tools. I’m not trying suggest a method for you. You know what your doing. I’m just saying for conversation 😎
I could be mistaken but I believe that the Monarch lathes use a DC drive system which uses an electrical / mechanical control system to keep a consistent HP rating through any RPM.
Don’t make sence! The weight saved from shaving the aluminum posts it probably doubled in larger rivets! Steel is much heavier than aluminum! I’d be curious as to before and after weights...
In the late seventies and early eighties, when we did these mods on race bikes,the springs would come out and short square blocks of steel,the length of the spring would be put in the place of the spring and assembled.
I wondered how they would stop the crashing back and forth without the springs. I'm not sure what benefit a solid link would make. I'd expect it to be harder on gearing and chains.
+goose300183 usually its some sort of a mix of light metals.like aluminium mixed with couple of other metals. Older bikes had a magnesium castings usually.
