COFFEE SCIENCE - Compound Chilling: Genius Or Gimmick?

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I've seen a lot of espresso trends come and go, and one that's recently resurfaced is extract chilling, or as it's referred to in this video, compound chilling. It was reintroduced to the coffee scene at the 2021 World Barista Championships by Hugh Kelly, but its the unique visual and potential claims that drew the attention of espresso nerds everywhere. So in this video I put the technique to the test, tasting it side by side with a standard shot and even providing another simpler way to achieve the same result.
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[3:46] TECHNIQUE & TESTING
[6:10] SUMMARY & USE CASES
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Опубликовано:

15 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 131

@Sprometheus Год назад

Click here sbird.co/3Hzc9H3 and use my code SPROMETHEUS to get 55% OFF your first month at Scentbird. What’s your favorite fragrance? Comment below!

@MattHarris85 Год назад

The number one outcome of the compound chilling trend for me so far is that I've stopped pre-heating cups/servers. Which makes sense - coffee right after brewing is too hot to taste properly anyway, so why not let the cup suck some heat out?

@MGM_Think Год назад

Use a spoon. I freeze a spoon and put it in my cup under the portafilter and extract onto it, it does make a difference in a positive way.

@alanroderick7153 Год назад

Thank you for covering this in more detail than other videos I have seen (with one Canadian exception). I do not heat my shot glass to high temperature, and find that after knocking out the puck, stirring and taking to my home office the coffee temperature is usually down to a near body temp anyway. I do think stainless ice cubes in whisky make a flavour and aroma difference, so think it is worth a try for espresso. I know the various gizmo makers out there push for chilling immediately the coffee runs out of the spout, but the few hundredths of a second longer to hit chilled cubes in glass would to make a difference my palate could identify. Some experimentation needed ... Stay safe, everyone

@Sprometheus Год назад

You’re welcome Alan! And yeah as I found there are points on the timeline where the chilled shot and standard shot overlapped in flavor. Experimentation is definitely the key, give it a go for yourself.

@austinfreyrikrw6651 Год назад

Yeah, when I first heard of this, I thought it’s gimmicky. Having a science background myself, I immediately thought I could likely achieve similar effects by simply using a well-chilled cup. Save some money, and more importantly, save some trouble having to wash extra stuff. Thanks for another great video, btw. Keep on chugging ☕️!

@Sprometheus Год назад

Thanks Austin! And yeah, the frozen of chilled cup has been a method I’ve done here and there for awhile, and when I tried this method I realized it seemed overall very familiar. Thanks for watching and commenting! Have a great weekend!

@JorgeAlvarado-nx9tv Год назад

That means you keep a cup, say a 20 dollar propel from kruve, all the time in the freezer just to make 1 or 2 drinks a day? That and the risk of breaking it. I figured it was cheaper to buy a pair of unbreakable $10 whisky metal ice balls, stick them in my freezer, and leave them there until I decided to make an espresso.

@austinfreyrikrw6651 Год назад

@@JorgeAlvarado-nx9tv I don’t spend that much money on a cup. A dollar store acquisition is good enough. I’d rather spend more money on a grinder and better coffee beans.

@JorgeAlvarado-nx9tv Год назад

@@austinfreyrikrw6651 Yes of course. But still is the same principle anyway. It is easier and more practical to keep a frozen ball in the freezer than a cup. They don't have to be expensive.

@TheYankeesarebeastly Год назад

Not disagreeing if gimmick or not but find the experience of drinking from frozen cup awful. So if you can negate that that is a plus

@alexlazaridisf.7276 Год назад

Been doing frozen cup since 2020. It works. "Locks in" the flavour, so to speak. I don't always do it, but often I will put my cup in the freezer about 5 minutes prior to grinding.

@conefcol000 Год назад

I dig it. I used to do something similar with a HyperChiller. I'd pull a shot, then add it and milk into the device. Phenomenal during the summer, and has a noticeably thicker feel on the tongue. No dilution either!

@mixeddrinks8100 Год назад

just said the same thing on a different comment, works pretty well for those time I didn't prep any colder coffee, toss some of the batch brew office coffee into one and boom chilled coffee

@LumiLunar Год назад

Glad to know I can just freeze my cups. Didn’t feel like having a few whiskey balls and strainers go to waste in case I didn’t like it haha.

@Sprometheus Год назад

It’s definitely the ideal way to go in my opinion, isn’t as pretty, but gets the job done.

@pdxrunner Год назад

This has me thinking about whiskey rocks or the Stainless drops I have that are sold to keep tea hot,but could be frozen for a similar result. You would need to transfer the espresso to another cup before it cooled too much. But, I think this would be easier than espressing over a steel ball and finding an appropriate ball. Also, double use in whiskey!

@Sprometheus Год назад

I’m sure there are many ways to do something just like this, the whisky stones are essentially just the most common both to use and find.

@kevinalvarado3724 Год назад

I usually get my espresso cup very cold with tap water whenever I make it (I have very cold tap water), but mostly to get it to drinkable temperature much faster in the mornings, I can taste it immediately after stirring it without burning myself (and that's why I don't like double glass cups). I was never really sure about the effect that every video mentioned since there was no measurements, thanks for that! What I wished I could see here is a comparison between one espresso metal chilled freshly brewed and one espresso at the same temperature but let chilled down naturally for some minutes, I was never sure if the espresso is just easier to taste or if there's an actual locking of flavor in it. Great video!

@Sprometheus Год назад

Essentially the chart is a comparison between a chilled and standard shot over a timeframe. I used a spouted portafilter to ensure it was the same shot just with that one difference.

@petegalvs Год назад

For the true espresso aficionados, this may sound like heresy, but this technique make perfect sense to me, because it lines up well with my preferred way to drink espresso: brewed over ice. Yes, there's a dilution that happens, obviously, but it was the reduction in bitterness and astringency that made the espresso more palatable in general. It's the same with the Japanese iced coffee technique. Coffee tastes better when it's immediately chilled.

@Sprometheus Год назад

No judgement here. If you enjoy it keep at it. I personally didn’t love pulling over ice or even in water until I started doing it with distilled water. Game changer. Doesn’t add minerals to the mix and throw off the flavor. Highly recommend.

@mixeddrinks8100 Год назад

why not just brew it over a HYPERCHILLER? what I do in the summertime anyways. No dilution at all.

@starsaviorjohn 5 месяцев назад

@@SprometheusI have a Breville Oracle Touch and it says to NOT use distilled water for the machine and instead just use tap. Would this really hurt my machine? I’ve been wanting to use distilled water

@DullPoints Год назад

Mr. Spro, I very much appreciate your attempt to make this a more objective hobby (read: obsession) for the rest of us. I'm a pleb when it comes to espresso so this concise overview and review is GOLD to me as I casually make my first steps of the cliff of my new hobby. Unrelated: do you have a playlist for plebs? Or a video where you address the fundamentals?

@Edfireman1 Год назад

If you have a removable spout on your portafilter (like on my Cafelat robot) you can just pop that into freezer between shots. Dead easy, chills the espresso as it pours from spout.

@allen.t Год назад

My boy sexual steel with another BANGer video! Jokes aside I never really doubted the compound chilling technique and I think its great! Theres even a local cafe near me that serves a gesha espresso in a frozen glass and its spectacular. I wouldn’t do this for my daily workflow but I would go for it every now and then.

@Sprometheus Год назад

Haha maybe it’s time to change the name! What cafe is that? Sounds really solid.

@allen.t Год назад

@@Sprometheus Loquat Coffee in Los Angeles! They also sell their beans online I really enjoy their ethiopian wush wush.

@brandishwar 5 месяцев назад

I've considered trying this. With frozen cups, you need to be careful about what cups you use to be sure sure they can take the thermal shock. And I wouldn't really trust the mugs I typically use for my morning latte to handle that. Whereas the frozen steel ball can be used with any cup. Buy the right one and it should suspend the ball in the cup so you don't affect portafilter clearance.

@macehead Год назад

Sprometheus has balls of steel. Straight facts guys.

@Sprometheus Год назад

I keep them in a black velvet bag in my freezer.

@project.mirari Год назад

balls of sexual steel

@user-lv7ph7hs7l Год назад

Not quite related but in my uninformed opinion barista competitions should be done in a blind fashion, where each contestant makes a drink and the judges don't know who made what. That would be much more useful in finding better brewing techniques than the, forgive me, circus it is today. Soon it will be expected to incorporate juggling and tightrope walking into the routine to even get the judges attention. Rant over. Shots looked gorgeous. Love Ethiopian. Currently enjoying Fire Finch by Flying Roasters in Berlin. Taramesa, natural, cocoa and strawberries. Used it in a tiramisu to great effect. Sadly they don't ship much beyond the EU.

@jeffjones6667 Год назад

Ceramic/ stoneware shot cup out of freezer is easier and less messy, either technique keeps me from putting ice cube or splash cream in it which I think is good thing

@Sprometheus Год назад

Definitely easier! And if you like ice and cream no judgement here. I’m a big fan of milk drinks, but if it helps make the straight espresso more enjoyable than it’s worth it.

@nissanguy16 Год назад

I’ve been using frozen cups this whole time just because I like to drink it right away and not wait for a couple minutes.

@Sprometheus Год назад

I’m with you. Heated cups have been this odd industry standard for years that I never understand and just went with. But for me I usually pull room temp or chilled cups. I just like the look of cups on top of the machine, haha.

@nissanguy16 Год назад

@@Sprometheus you do have a point there

@austinfreyrikrw6651 Год назад

@@Sprometheus I think the heated cup is used in commercial setting as it may be a bit of a wait before the customer actually drinks the coffee. For home brewing, one usually doesn’t wait around very long before drinking the joe.

@mexicanhalloween Год назад

yeah, frozen cup is probably the better way to do this, you may be able to increase the effect using the thermal mass of an enameled thick steel cup, but it'd probably not be much of a difference

@Sprometheus Год назад

Personally I love the frozen cup method for its simplicity, but also the mouthfeel. The contract of the cool cup and hot espresso just hits different.

Год назад

My thoughts wander to whether we should re-evaluate pre-heating of cups. Chilling the cups or using a steel ball might not be practical day-to-day, for just a fractional increase. But conversely, wouldn't pre-heating cups, a common practice, be detrimental to the drink? Pre-heating the cup would extend the time the drink stays in a "too-hot-to-drink" state, but does nothing to prevent it from going through oxidation or losing aromatics. So, at least the most practical sounds like just using room temperature cups.

@austinfreyrikrw6651 Год назад

Preheated cups likely makes more sense in a commercial setting as there may be more time between the coffee is made and is drank by the customer.

@Sprometheus Год назад

I’ve often wondered about the pre-heated cup thing. After I did a video about the “dead shot” phenomena and did a similar taste test I found shots tasted Best a few minutes after pulled. This in essence speeds that up, and makes the shot reach that point faster, and surprisingly it seems to stay better longer. So I do think there are some interesting things to consider in this topic. Personally I store cups on top of my machine, but don’t often use them and usually reach for room temp options.

Год назад

@@austinfreyrikrw6651 maybe? Takeout, sure, but those are paper cups. And it doesn't stop the coffee from oxidation or deteriorating anyway.

@d077Z Год назад

Isn't Nucleus (Hugh Kelly and Sasa Sestic) recommending partial compound chilling now? (~30% of the shot / pourover) compared to what Hugh was doing in his WBC?

@jaimedelgado7529 7 месяцев назад

An actual frozen whisky ball would be genius. Get the benefit mentioned here and an irish coffee all in one go. If only i had a beast of a freezer that would go down to -27 degrees celcius to freeze whiaky with

@tobyr21 Год назад

Sprom, I feel you left out something in this fascinating video. Perhaps you assumed that I now more about Compound chilling than I do. In your test, the espresso poured out of the portafilter, and then what? It apparently fell on something that was X cold. And I gather you made two cups simultaneously each time, with only one hitting the chill. You then compared the taste of the two cups after N minutes, for various values of N? How cold was the chilling thing? How much did it chill the espresso? Can one vary the results by using a different kind of chiller or a different coldness? Please illuminate. Thanks, -toby

@coffeecove7058 Год назад

I bought the Paragon and still waiting for it. Can't wait to get and try it.

@Sprometheus Год назад

I didn’t order one, but I’m curious. Seems to be the exact same thought process.

@coffeecove7058 Год назад

@@Sprometheus Yes it is, but for pour over. It's a little pricy. I ordered it a few months ago.

@contemporaryartist6542 Год назад

I have it. Daily driver after first cup. The difference is quite shocking

@japheth Год назад

Hi! What’s that glass you used at the beginning of your video?

@Shawn-np1dy Год назад

God bless SoftPourn for bringing this method to the world stage. I do it all the time now

@killermelga Год назад

I mean it does look phenomenal, I'll give it that. And only that

@Sprometheus Год назад

It does look very cool, and there’s an effect but it’s not life changing that’s for sure.

@iwouldpayattention Год назад

May have been interesting to plot quality against temperature for each

@Sprometheus Год назад

Yeah I took some notes in temp through the testing timeline, but wasn’t sure if it would be as relevant as the cup quality score assuming the outcome. But if I could do it again I would find a way to plot the temps as different lines on the graph.

@fabianlikescoffee Год назад

Would be nice to see what you think of using these same techniques but with filter coffee. I tried myself, and it has an effect (sometimes?)

@Sprometheus Год назад

I’ve yet to try it on filter, but it’s on my list. Since I did a full length video on the espresso I’ll likely do that test as a short.

@Phil_OG Год назад

I freeze my cup for filter coffee and put 2 stainless whiskey stones inside but manly to cool my coffee quicker to drinking temperature.

@user-ej3nc9xj7y 7 месяцев назад

Hi! You said that this technique is not really new. Is there an article that I can check to read more about how it was developed? Or is anyone able to point me to a link? I might Need this for a paper I am writing thank you in advance!

@arnoldschwarzenecker5819 Год назад

All nice and interesting, but what is that black machine in the background?

@hrolvnir Год назад

I was just gonna ask!!

@Sprometheus Год назад

That is the Crossland CC1, it’s actually be around for a long time but is one that doesn’t get a lot or of love. Working on a review for it, coming later this month.

@m4tth3wh Год назад

I've dug out my 2012 coffee joulies and froze them. 🤣

@Andrew-wp1bz Год назад

Really interested in compound chilling. Curious how it would affect drip coffee compared to espresso. I feel like you could have more pronounced difference compared to espresso. Might have to do some testing myself… Goodbye chunky lemon milk.

@Sprometheus Год назад

I haven’t tried it with filter yet since espresso is my daily, but it’s definitely on my list.

@Bagels29 Год назад

@The Real Sprometheus I'd love to see you review the nucleus paragon brewer for testing pour-overs.

@ToddParker Год назад

I compound chill my pour over here and there and I think mouthfeel and sweetness does improve...marginally. At the end of the day, if someone knows how to manipulate the brew technically small margin gains can be made; yet good coffee is good coffee. I am going to go compound chill a cuppa right now!

@Sprometheus Год назад

I’m with you. You won’t catch me doing this frequently, but it has a fun place. The frozen cup is simpler and I can just leave a cup there for when I want it haha. But like you said, good coffee is good coffee and this method makes marginal differences.

@ToddParker Год назад

@@Sprometheus yah, frozen cup is a great idea...I hadn't known perger did that.

@rivellehaidar318 5 месяцев назад

Does the temprature drop significantly?

@ToddParker 5 месяцев назад

@@rivellehaidar318 no, coffee ready to drink. Play around with higher temperatures out of the kettle helps as well.

@tobyr21 Год назад

Onthe web, i says that Hugh iced his portafilters. Were your portafilters hot, warm, or iced? I'm curious. I WILL try the frozen cup. That seems like an easy-to-try idea. -toby

@KzLollapalooza Год назад

Splitting a shot, tasting them at different temperatures back to back can be interesting

@Sprometheus Год назад

It definitely can be an eye opening experience!

@dan110024 Год назад

I’m also calling BS on that chilled pour over stand thing that came about recently. BS of the fact that it’s any different to waiting for the coffee to cool naturally. BUT.. it got me wondering how I could implement a DIY version for convenience of not having to wait or chill the coffee once in the cup (usually sitting the cup in a bowl of cold water)

@seanjohnston848 Год назад

The first few minutes of the video I was thinking "How is this different from the frozen cup technique?".

@cheekster777 Год назад

Thank you my friend.

@Sprometheus Год назад

Of course! Thanks for watching my friend, have a good weekend.

@cheekster777 Год назад

@@Sprometheus - You too Buddy!

@Mandragara Год назад

One of my local cafe's does this. You get a double shot as two singles, one chilled one not

@Chiro75 Год назад

Played around with frozen cups years ago and generally liked the end result. May try it again. The balls, screens, etc is just too much for me.

@Sprometheus Год назад

The ball is just pageantry really, a frozen cup gets you thing without the fuss.

@adamevans1989 Год назад

Freezing a cup might take some planning, but having one of these balls permanently living in your freezer adds a level of spontaneity/flexibility when you make espresso, so I do see some argument to use this method over freezing a cup.

@CasualCoreK Год назад

Same amount of planning, really, you're just changing the thing that lives in your freezer. I keep a couple coupe glasses chilled for cocktails myself, I don't go "oh i want to make a Manhattan in an hour" and then move it over from the cupboard.

@superlloito Год назад

Is that a matte black CC1 on the counter?

@Sprometheus Год назад

It is indeed!

@alexgj3956 Год назад

Compound chilling?? Yes, I'll be compound chillin' while drinking my espresso

@unknownmemoirs Год назад

I hope the frozen cups don't shatter from the sudden change in heat.

@gobgobcachoo Год назад

Right. Wait 3 minutes or pull into a frozen cup. I'll give it a try.

@siegistic Год назад

I thought if the temperatures were too low it makes it taste sour?

@bjfeerus Год назад

☕☕☕ Love Is Important ...

@aflac82 Год назад

So basically it makes no difference to any other cooling method.

@Sprometheus Год назад

I mean yes and no, I’m sure there are differences between cooling methods but they’re subtle. The big win is a shot that has a more consistent flavor quality for a longer time.

@Reynevan100 Год назад

The tools are gimmicky, might as well use heavier chilled glass to absorb the heat. And if you dilute espresso later, use ice cubes. Or add milk to the gkass first and then pull the shot into it. Less stuff to wash later.

@roberthenrypoet Год назад

Yeah, I appreciate the experiment, but if I want cold coffee I'll just make it over ice, or simply wait for the temperature to go down. :)

@Sprometheus Год назад

Well it’s not cold when it’s said and done. It just hits it and shocks it into breaking down differently. Its only about 10-15 degrees cooler than a non chilled shot depending on how long you run the shot over the ball.

@roberthenrypoet Год назад

@@Sprometheus Got it!

@marylandflyer5670 Год назад

Are these steel balls NSF certified? Not sure I want my fresh espresso to flow over a dirty steel ball.

@Sprometheus Год назад

They’re steel whisky balls, intended to be frozen and put in drinks.

@veganpotterthevegan Год назад

Sexual steel was only kidding about going to college

@dvsmaverick Год назад

In short, use a cold cup and stir it with a cold spoon.

@davidrogala7597 Год назад

👍

@sandrodunatov485 Год назад

Nice video and idea, but I will pass on this.. Nice show though. I will try the frozen cup for sure.

@Sprometheus Год назад

The frozen cup is goated in my opinion, the cold vs hot sensation created a very unique mouthfeel

@willnzsurf Год назад

I'm guessing an affogato would produce a mild version of this.🤔

@Sprometheus Год назад

Haha yeah probably, but you’d never know the true effect because the melted ice cream will dilute it, a similar thing happens with ice cubes as well.

@swempthebemp Год назад

Not sure why it's called compound chilling, when there's only one chilling stage?

@Sprometheus Год назад

I believe compound refers to the volatile aroma compounds it’s supposed to increase.

@wakeawaken430 Год назад

Oh Yes To be a winner at WBC, you don't have to be a good barista, you have to be a good actor....

@tommihommi1 Год назад

are you going to publish the actual data anywhere?

@Sprometheus Год назад

I mean, what data? The scores of each taste over a 10 min period? Essentially that’s what the graph is depicting.

@tommihommi1 Год назад

@@Sprometheus basically to get an idea of what these statements are based on. I have no idea whether there's actually data to support these trendlines

@Sprometheus Год назад

@@tommihommi1 you don’t believe that I tasted shots and gave them scores over a 10 minute period? Well, if you don’t believe me based on my statements in the video, what difference would numbers on a page make? I mean, besides me having to take time out of my day to build a table to post to prove there are scores? I don’t know man, just seems like you should try it yourself and make your own judgement, as my taste perception can be different to yours.

@lukeclayton7578 Год назад

Sir, this is a youtube video not science publications.

@tommihommi1 Год назад

@@Sprometheus I'd just like to know whether it's a robert aloe style result or if there's actually a real effect going on

@rorysteven2302 11 месяцев назад

I doubt there's meaningful change in the loss of volatiles

@carbon5261 Год назад

People will buy anything if you put a lo-fi beat on a tiktok about it. Personally I'm going to make my fortune selling a small gadget that rotates the ball so there's always a cold spot facing the portafilter spout. People will comment on my lo-fi tiktoks that the design is very human.

@Sprometheus Год назад

Hey now, don’t disrespect lofi! Haha

@RoryIsNotACabbage Год назад

The constant starting to pour onto a frozen ball then cutting away was so stressful. I honestly stopped listening part way through cause I was just wanting to see the full espresso pull

@themarvel2004 Год назад

Chapter timings and breaks are all off - your add runs about 30s longer than the chapters advise. Not cool

@Sprometheus Год назад

Instead of acting like I somehow tricked you into watching a fraction of an ad, and considering the other chapters were off as well you could maybe just say, “hey man just a heads up”. Im a one man show and literally make free-to-watch content weekly and sometimes I make mistakes.