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raelonewolf Which I guess is the point of the Bechdel test. It's super easy to pass without thinking about it, and there's NOTHING wrong with an individual thing not passing it, but if you need to actively think and struggle to pass it, or if much less passes it than the Ledhceb test (which is exactly what you think), then it indicates a more general problem, which CH may be acknowledging that it struggles from occasionally. Or maybe I'm reading too much into this and they just stretched logic for the sake of a joke.
i think he knew that they were trying to pass the test. if he would of said carrots, then they could of easily passed the test by saying no. Adam is just a scheming son of a bitch.
+Conner Fuchs no. all of the show is about searching the truth and eliminate misconceptions. so if you would believe he is the same exact person as the character in the show (of course not. he's an actor) then he in fact would definitely care.
trexdrew, it seems only appropriate to point out that the notion of carrots improving your eyesight is a myth spread by the British government during World War 2 to explain the apparent skill of their pilots in spotting things, which in fact was down to radar, something which was still a secret military technology at the time. I've just ruined carrots, you're welcome!
The test can't have a time requirement because it has to apply to all forms of media including written media where the speed at which time passes depends almost entirely upon how long it takes to reader to read, unless it's explicitly written how long each conversation takes.
@@trimmien2350 Talking about men does not invalidate the test. The test is not about not talking about men is about talking about something else. The only thing that would make it not pass the test is that both girls did not say their names in this video, meaning that they do not have a name. Maybe I didn't hear them but I didnt hear them introduce themselves
Actually, no, although some modern-day Bechdel test monitors have added that caveat to make for a stricter standard. No, you could have Girl A and Girl B discussing floor-cleaning techniques and it would technically pass the Bechdel test, even though that is sexist as hell.
Everyone misconstrues the point of the Bechdel test. It's not about whether a particular movies passes or fails it (Gravity is a good example here), it's that the test sets the bar SO LOW and yet the vast majority of films, even the vast majority of good films, fail it.
See, that's the thing. I think this video may have gotten it wrong. It seems very sexist and irrational that they can't talk about or mention a man at all. the way they show it, a conversation about how tasty Adam's grapes are would not pass the test, which seems flawed. I can understand if it's in a romantic or gratifying light, for example, it makes sense that the phrase "oh, I love Adam. he's so generous" wouldn't pass the test, so long if that's all they talked about.
I now think this test is stupid. Imagine a reverse one where two men wouldn't talk about women at all. To me ignoring a large portion of the population is silly - chanting the frickin' Pokérap is enough for characters to pass this.
@@xrossplayxinoyeah I can imagine what would happen if there was a test where two men have to not talk about women, it would have almost every film pass. Imagine if a film didn't have a single peice of dialogue between two men that wasn't entirely centered on a female? That's why the Bechdel test exists, because it's such an easy thing to do and the fact that non-romantic movies can't pass it is kinda shitty.
@@ccox7198 the bechdel test doesnt say that you cant mention men in a movie. Just that there are almost always conversations between men that dont have to do with women, but rarely conversations between women that arent about men. You just need one conversation to pass. It doesnt have to span the whole movie. This skit passes the bechdale test btw.
Christopher Winstanley only when it's misapplied. Saying "this film is good because it passes the bechdel test" is indeed bullshit, but where it is useful is highlighting systematic problems (i.e. how many more hollywood films pass the reverse bechdel test than the normal one).
I like how everyone is ranting about the Bechdel test being an inadequate way to judge movies, but that's precisely the point. It is ridiculously easy to pass (as from my understanding it needs just two named female characters talking about something besides men/their relationship with a man) but most movies seem to fail it. Regardless of a movies quality, genre, box office rating, whatever, this test doesn't ask a lot. Just those few qualifications. It was created to highlight how often woman are used in film for romantic interest and such. Take Black Widow for example, she's an epic spy and all but has mainly been used for romantic interest in the Marvel movies. That's just one example, but I hope it kind of illustrates my point.
That's not the point, the point is that it's an arbitrary test that has no purpose. It actually inserts the implication that women shouldn't be allowed to discuss men, as if it's somehow demeaning to the concept of femininity. Character dialogue should be dependent on scene and characters involved, not some imaginary rubric of gender, otherwise it's forced and that's lazy. Nobody tells men they fail a test for talking about women, so why is it that the conversation of two or more women has to fall under a stringent guideline to be determined "acceptable feminine interpersonal interactions"; it's sexist, because it forces women to exist in a category that men are not required to adhere to.
@@TanisAnnicchiarico "Nobody tells men they fail a test for talking about women" You don't fail the Bechdel test just by talking about men, though - you fail it by never talking about anything *other* than men. So essentially, failing the "reverse Bechdel test" would mean that the male characters in the film never had *any* conversations about anything other than women.
Right, the test is a bit arbitrary, but it just needs to happen like once. If that’s hard, either it’s a very specific type of movie, or there is a under representing of inteegent women. Sure, what it tests for is a symptom, not a cause, but it’s better than nothing. I once asked a little girl (to test this) what roles there are for women in movies. She came up with girlfriend, wife, teen girl who likes guy, Secretary and girl people fight over. Sure it’s a small sample size, but the fact that it happens even once shows that there needs to be more represention or women being independent and doing a thing, anything, that doesn’t have to do with the fact that she’s female.
"Dude" to me is gender nuteral. If I'm trying to get a friends attention, i'll say "dude, check this out": it doesnt matter gender because why should it? I call other guys "cunts" when they piss me off. It's just impulse.
Not to defend the Bechdel test, but I'm pretty sure you fail it if you talk about men, not if you merely mention them. There's difference between being the subject of the conversation and just being mentioned.
@@Mistform it's a silly ideological thing. it shouldnt be defended by any rational person. like someone else mentioned in comments. it really is a test of nothing of value. it tells you absolutely nothing about anything that matters about a video/play/movie/whateverform of media....
@@sabin97 it's a simple test and objective test to apply to all sorts of media that tells a lot about the representation of women. Obviously there are nuances missed and it's not perfect for every situation but it is still a very valuable tool. For an example try applying a reverse Bechdel for men and see the differences in results.
@@Mistform sure. which specific things can the test tell you about a work of media? without telling you which media i'm going to be analyzing, which specific things can the test tell me? please be as specific and explicit as you can.
Ethan Davidson The Bechtel test says nothing about a prince. It refers to girls and women, period. The discussion/behavior/antics of the Three Good Fairies satisfy the Bechtel test.
Tor You do realize that the world has different time zones right? And that there is upload times for videos so the videos that they uploaded on youtube wouldn't go on right when they were made right?
The bechdel test doesn't require that there are ONLY women, and that they NEVER talk about men. It just requires that at some point in the video/movie, two women have a conversation about anything besides a man. Adam can talk about his grapes all he wants.
Alresu | LP no they have to be named, I mean we know the name of the actor and they were playing themselves but their name is still not known for people who don't actively look it up
WeiYinChan Nopes, they just need to have names. Since it's College-Humor, we know, their names. It's said in many other productions. It's like saying, Boba Fett does not have a name in the OT Star Wars films, just because it is not mentioned them...
The Best Well, it's not so much the concept so much as how poorly understood it is and how people try to twist it into things it isn't. It's merely a theoretical metric to show how few movies pass what should be a simple metric. People frequently change the rules on it to try to either make it sound artificially harder to meet than it is or even to inflate the numbers of failures. Not even every movie should be passing the test, nor is it an actual metric for how well the film represents a female viewpoint properly. It's a thought experiment that people try to make sure complicated to force the data to fit their viewpoint. In essence, the powerful simplicity of the concept made too many people aware of it, and it got twisted. It's actually pretty similar to how few people get the ACTUAL point of Schroedinger's Cat, because the effectiveness of the imagery almost made it TOO accessible.
lmao ok It's an incredibly low bar, because the fact that such a low percentage passes at that low bar makes an interesting point. When people try to artificially raise said bar, they completely ruin the thought experiment. It's like someone making a bet with you and completely changing the rules when it looks like they're losing.
Actually the reason this didn't pass the Bechdel test was because you didn't give us the two women's name. The Bechdel test doesn't say the women can't talk about men at all they just have to talk about something other then men, so for example when they talked about Hillary Clinton they passed, they were then totally free to move on to talking about Bernie Sanders.
I think the difficulty of this increases or decreases depending on the women and what they have in common, sexual orientation, coworker/work environment, hobbies or shared interactions and social interactions up to and including the point of them performing test.
*+The Mayo Boy* Not all discussions about religion become flame wars. And, besides, we have a moral obligation to talk about ways of further redistribution of privilege among the sexes.
Gootman Boats Oh, the internets favourite move, The Strawman! Moral obligations are social constructs, and very subjective, thus it doesn't make sense to talk about how "we" have a moral obligation. Being anti-feminist doesn't make you pro-privilege.
I'm on an old collegehumor binge and I keep seeing comments that I want to interact with but then I realise they're 4 or 5 years old and all those people are long dead. It be like trying to start a conversation with a war memorial
They passed the test like every other sentence. Literally any sentence where they weren't mentioning a guy they passed. They passed RIGHT AT THE START OF THE VIDEO its super simple.
I'm a huge feminist but personally I believe that passing the Bechdel test is not completely indicative of a movie or TV show's inclusivity. It is easy to continue to perpetuate gender stereotypes while passing the Bechdel test, and there are movies and TV shows that do not pass the Bechdel test while being very progressive. For example, Stranger Things contains a cast of very progressive actors, has multiple strong female characters, and shows a character with a speech impediment as well as being an incredibly done show in other aspects as well, while not passing the Bechdel test. This is primarily because the female characters in the show do not interact very often and many of the main characters are male. They do get very close.
I really don't see the point of the test. It's not like failing the test makes a movie in any way worse unless you have some arbitrary moral standards that there needs to be extra women in something.
The Exile Yh it's kind of defunct. Look at Run Lola Run arguably one of the strongest female characters in a film but it doesn't pass the test because she's the only woman.
The Exile The Test makes no sense it just reaffirms existing bias, you could probably flip the genders and the result would be the same. you know which movie passes the bechdel ? suckerpunch.
The Exile The point of the test- which most anti feminists on youtube seem not to understand- is NOT to say a movie is objectively bad or sexist. In fact, whether an individual movie passes or not has no bearing on the quality of that movie. The point of test has always been to show an overarching problem with how female characters are written in movies by providing an incredibly easy set of criteria for it to meet and then showing how they fail. The fact that great and popular movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc. DONT pass the test is supposed to make you think about why we don't see these criteria met, NOT to make you go "eeew feminists need to stop complaining"
yeah its a way to confirm ones biases for feminists. there are alot of tropes about men i.e. "stupid dad" "evil guy = rapist" "awkward horny teenage boy" etc. dont act like there are problems that only concern women, if we'd analyze romance novels and pointed out the unrealistic standarts and sexist sentiments youd probably blush
Danny come on. Saying something doesn't exist is a bash. If I said love in relation to you doesn't exist. It be a insult. If I told people you didn't exist it be a (very strange) insult. It's bashing
How about "How are you doing today?" "I'm doing great." Done. The whole video has now passed the Bechdel test. Or more relevantly, "Do you have any hobbies?" "No; I have no hobbies. I also have no opinions or concerns. I am both a Stoicist and a nihilist, for no reason."
Michael Puterbaugh Maybe these comments will be more to your liking? Here are some quotes from famous feminists. *Like the kind who teach "women's studies" in college and write the books they study:* “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” - Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -- Valerie Solanas “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” - Andrea Dworkin “Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” -Susan Brownmiller “The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” - Sharon Stone “Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” - Catherine Comins “Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.” - Germaine Greer. "The nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." - Linda Gordon "We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." - Robin Morgan "I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."- Robin Morgan "The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness…can be trained to do most things." - Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas) "We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." - Elizabeth Cady Stanton "Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." - Andrea Dworkin "Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies." - Andrea Dworkin "To be rapeable, a position that is social, not biological, defines what a woman is." - Andrea Dworkin "The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" - Ti-Grace Atkinson "Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." - Ti-Grace Atkinson "When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." - Sheila Jeffreys "All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." - Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.) "You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs." - Catherine MacKinnon "In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." - Catherine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women’s Studies. "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." - Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female. "And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference." - Susan Griffin, in Rape: The All-American Crime. "If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." -Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001. "All men are rapists and that’s all they are" - Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.) "I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it." - Barbara Jordan; Former Congresswoman. "I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, ‘hate in love,’ for the men women share their lives with-husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers." - Judith Levine, Authoress of My Enemy, My love "All men are good for is fucking, and running over with a truck". Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." --feminist leader Sheila Cronan "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole…patriarch!" --Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine and communist whore.
More importantly they want hillary as president... Just what da heck are they thinking? Shes awful.. And its not because shes a woman.. Its because she doesn't learn from others mistakes and how to be a decent president.
+Zex Eios You've misunderstood the point of the Bechdel test. It's about representation; it doesn't state that it's sexist for women to talk about a man - because it isn't. Also, they could talk about his contributions to science and technology, just not about the man himself.
+Zex Eios When the Bechdel test says not talking about men, it's referring to not talking about men for being men. Discussing a male figure in politics would not be a violation of the Bechdel test unless they were specifically talking about the man being a man. Same with Einstein, as long as they were discussing his contributions to science, or even about his life, it wouldn't violate the test. The only discussion of men that would violate it would be something like "Ooohhhhhh, he's so hot" or "I wish I was dating one of those guys" not "I think that Donald Trump/Ted Cruz/John Kasich/Bernie Sanders would be an awful president." I apologize for my long winded explanation, I wasn't attempting to refine my language in the way I would in more formal situations.
N3rdSci3nc3 Not really, it was never supposed to be taken as some kind of hard rule for cinema, just to point out 'hey, women are not really represented here' since many movies don't even pass the have two female characters part.
Silverkestrel Still it is pointless, it shows nothing about the films quality, the type of story telling, art direction. it serves no purpose but to stroke Alison Bechdel ego. It does not help or even criticizes that artform in any useful form. So, like i said, its pointless.
Silverkestrel Wow, that's an amazing counterargument there. Well, im convinced. Thanks for enlightening me. I can just feel the ignorance just melt away from me.
N3rdSci3nc3 You're missing the point. It isn't meant to point out the quality of the film. Quality films fail the test all the time. It isn't even meant to be applied to single films. It doesn't matter that Lord of the Rings or Star Wars or The Godfather individually didn't pass the test. What the test is supposed to do is show the overarching number of films that don't pass the test to show a trend of misrepresentation. I think the fact that so many quality films don't pass actually attests to its usefulness. If storytelling is a point of quality in art, then a point of quality in story telling is portraying a world in a realistic and believable way. If a concept as basic as two women talking to each other about anything besides a man for a single conversation is too much for your story-or having two women talk to each other at all-is too much for a writer to handle, they're missing a huge opportunity to build on their world and their characters.
The funny thing about this video is that they immediately pass the becdel test at the start talking about the becdel test. But they fail the reverse-becdel test not having two males talking about anything other than females
ChristopherBDLS1 uh yeah humor is subjective. i was smilling the whole time and it made me laugh alot to tell u at which specific points i laughed id have to watch it again and document my opinion on each point... im kinda busy so no.
I don't get why feminist insist they don't hate men when multiple aspects of their movement contribute to anti-male rhetoric. The fact that women can't talk about men without it violating some feminist "test"is proof enough that it isn't a movement for equality. The irony too is that feminism arguably talks about men more then any other group I can think of.
I'll have to disagree with you there, as with any movement there are various beliefs between its followers, to most people, feminism is about equality for all genders and not in fact about female supremacy. If any movement would want to evoke change in society it is very important to be talking about the main opposition, which in the case of feminism, is often men. Look at other examples, for equality for the LGBT community, we address the homophobic, the biphobic and the transphobic, it makes sense really. I'm not out to antagonise, just to offer my opinion, have a good day -T
HT ARCADE Tom said it. Besides, nobody really mentioned feminism in the vid. The purpose of the test can fall within that area, but also about something completely different, like what they mentioned in the beginning.
HT ARCADE The Bechdel test was a webcomic joke about movies. The point is to try and think of a movie that passes and get depressed at what and how much fails. Applying it to stuff like games or series is just passing the joke on. Doesn't have to be feminist either, HuniePop passes the Bechdel test. It's only ranted about for argument's sake, because there's not nearly enough movies or whatever that fail the reverse. There's plenty of male characters that have a conversation at some point about something other than women.
I thought the Bechdel test was just have 2 women talk to each other about something other than men. Why can they not talk about men at all? That's just limiting a writers freedom and making this test completely pointless.
+Samuel Lacey That's a misconception about the Test. *"Why can they not talk about men at all?"* Yes, they can. But they have to, at least once in the whole movie, talk about something else. Just once. They can talk about men in every other single line of dialogue if once they talk about the weather, or each other, or another female villain or hero, about a machine or process, if they blurt out technobabble, etc.
+Malcom Chase Bu Gravity failed it because it had like two characters at all, one of them died early on, and then for entire movie it was just a woman. It can't pass the test because there is no other female characters, even though the entire movie is solely about a woman trying to save her life. So the test doesn't make sense because Gravity is not men centered at all and still fails the test.
iNezumi A lot of movies fail the Test and are still excellent, non-sexists movies. Also, a movie can have a reason to fail the test (like Gravity that only has a single character, or a movie set in a male prison, for example). Failing the Test doesn't make a movie sexist or bad. The Test is used to see trends in movies. It should be applied to a few movies at a time. If (I'm making this up) you take the top ten movies of the year and 7 fail the Test while only 1 the Reversed Bechdel Test, that's a problem.
The Bechdel test is a pointless exercise anyway as they don't indicate anything in regards to a positive female role-model, some of the most badass female characters from film franchises such as Star Wars, Alien and Hunger Games fail this test throughout.
vazqueze234 In some movies the characters generally talk less, I think it should be seen in relation. Maybe compare it to the amount of time men spend in the movie talking about anything but women.
***** well personally, like the fella above stated, when you compare it to the amount of men who talk about something other than women, its pretty sexist. a majority of movies have male protagonists, and the males usually outnumber the females in the cast.
