Columbia University Pres. “The End of Affirmative Action Would be a Disaster” | Amanpour and Company

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The Supreme Court’s conservative supermajority looks likely to overturn affirmative action -- a significant precedent that for decades allowed universities to consider race in the admissions process. The move would be a disaster, according to two legal scholars and university administrators: Lee Bollinger of Columbia University and Geoffrey Stone of the University of Chicago. They tell Michel Martin why they believe the nation needs more affirmative action, not less.
Originally aired on November 4, 2022
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Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City.
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Комментарии : 300

@mjm5081 Год назад

PROBLEM: Opportunities based on race, gender, and/or sexual orientation. SOLUTION: Opportunities based on race, gender, and/or sexual orientation. PROBLEM: Opportunities based on race, gender, and/or sexual orientation.

@dhui777 Год назад

Affirmative action is racist. Any attempt to solve the problem of racism using racism is futile.

@jamesjackovich5886 Год назад

The first color you have to be to go to college is green because without the money you aren't going most of the colleges in the US were built with taxpayer money but the only ones that can afford to go are wealthy foreigners

@starleyshelton2245 Год назад

All the earliest colleges were built with private funds. The early to mid 20th Century begins the publicly owned universities. However, because of student loans the possibility of almost anyone attending college is possible. Also, why price went up. More money available. I attended both public and private in both undergraduate and graduate levels. I personally used the military and veterans benefits.

@AN-nl9pu Год назад

In a increasingly diverse American society, policies that benefit one group over another are discriminatory and unethical. If anything college should be needs based aid, that way people who need get help. There are upper middle class and rich black Americans whose children get affirmative action while a West Virginia child born into poverty is told to eat dirt because of the color of their skin.

@yarazooom Год назад

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is not just about racial discrimination but also FOR WOMEN. I got into college at 42 in 1997 with affirmative action after being a single MOTHER on WELFARE. I spent 7 years getting a BA & MASTERS which changed my life forever

@seensay2132 Год назад

The original mission was justice for Descendants of Slavery denied basic access to be fully American for multiple generations.

@tammiepulley7167 Год назад

@E please reconsider your narrow opinion. Would you want this woman to continue to be on welfare or to be a happy and productive employee? Also you are quick to throw stones so I guess you don’t make bad decisions, like ever.

@TijaunaK Год назад

Which women? Cause remember, all the blacks are men and all the women are white.

@laliday Год назад

@E You are narrow minded and fail to see the big picture.

@Paul-McB Год назад

Your right. The greatest recipients are white women using affirmative action in all aspects of our society. These same women usually marry white men. It has only helped white families. Let's end this racist policy. I know a white police or fireman would rather strong black man to help vs a Hollywood G.I. Jane.

@coquitlamfalcons3976 Год назад

The two professors argue that the current situation is no better than fifty, sixty years ago that the race-based affirmative action needs to be preserved or even expanded. Have they considered the following? - Lets take an African American high schooler raised by an African American tenured professor and an African American lawyer in the neighborhood habited by the upper-middle, professional class (lawyers, doctors, upper level executives, successful local SMB owners, etc.), attending the local, exclusive private school. This high schooler has an Asian classmates living in the same neighborhood raised by first gen immigrants in the tech industry. Other than the color of their skins, the two young people have very similar background. Apparently, the current race-based AA would give the African American person an edge. Am I missing anything? This is not hypothetical; my children have African American classmates raised in such professional class households. - The mental toll on young Asian/Indian Americans. Check out sub-reddits like Apply2College, ChanceMe, etc. The level of anxiety is often hard to watch. Indian Male aiming for a t20 school studying computing science? Ding. Asian female aiming for premed at a t20 school? Ding. They KNOW they are being held to almost superhuman standards. Straight A is expected of you. 10, 12 AP class is expected. 1500+ SAT is expected. Extracurricular? You need national level recognition or else it almost mean nothing. Most will grudgingly march along with the flow, but you can't blame some of them complaining why they have to bare so much of the cost in the quest of racial justice.

@dramese Год назад

Why scapegoat blacks what about the white? oh they deserve it, it’s only small numbers of black about 6% everyone are going out of their mind.

@RebekahCurielAlessi Год назад

Thank you for having these two wonderful guests. I would hope we can evolve our hearts to their level of foresight, compassion and skill.

@thesleeper200x Год назад

Compassion for one group at the expense of another. Very evolved. What does your foresight say about the resentment that is created across racial lines due to unequal treatment? Or do you think making the same mistakes of the past just in the other direction is going to have no repercussions.

@JohnDoe-ud1yt Год назад

They are lying propagandists with little actual compassion or skill. The scam is over and we won’t trust any of you anymore.

@magsbayou Год назад

@@thesleeper200x There is no way to create a harmonious system when white people in America feel entitled over everyone else especially white men. To date, there are endless complaints from those who believe they were entitled to scholarships, job opportunities etc over someone of color arguing they were more qualified which is not true in all cases. So in the end, one group would get all the advantages at the expense of others. If that happens then I support blacks hiring only blacks, black only businesses etc to make up for the loss of jobs. I would also support them taking advantage of global remote opportunities or even just migrating away from the US entirely since they often have a better chance at thriving and being hired on fair merits more so than the US.

@starleyshelton2245 Год назад

So if the school is not 70+ white shall we take from other ethnic groups? To assure diversity in accordance with population? And why is it that those accepted into math and science on affirmative action with lower scores do not complete the programs compared to those who were more academically qualified? Are math and science racist as well? How about we just look at scholastic merit and record of accomplishment? And eliminate race, name, on application and judge blindly on merit. Seems the MLK Jr way.

@chijen2010 Год назад

@@magsbayouAffirmative action is now dead. Does that mean you are leaving like you recommended??

@phedoraj 4 месяца назад

Lee Bollinger represents my alma mater. It's incredible how clear affirmative action is to him, but not to others. What resonates with me that he shared is that until the country deals with the blight of institutional racism, affirmative action is still needed. It's a safeguard, not a death sentence or an indictment. The statistics for legacy admissions are higher than they are for minority admissions.

@gordonsteen8415 Год назад

How about making college admissions fair? More low income students. More students who are shut out of elite schools.

@divingchicago Год назад

The issue of AA was to correct major injustices that continue to plaque African Americans by racist practices that continue today. The new law should be African Americans only!

@MegaMementoMori Год назад

Or simply the brightest students, no matter what race or class they belong to.

@magsbayou Год назад

@@MegaMementoMori Won't work because there are still a percentage of white people that will feel entitled to opportunities even if they are not the most qualified. Simply by being male and or white, they would feel they are superior.

@MegaMementoMori Год назад

@@magsbayou Well, if they don't get the test scores or other achievements, what can they do?

@friarnewborg9213 Год назад

WHO will PAY for that? And WHY?

@americana1234 Год назад

Imagine if people of color had the same early educational, environmental and positive role model influences as white counterparts … we would truly have a great country.

@stephdrake2521 Год назад

@Kyul Kim you are below the bottom troll

@zhasenei Год назад

Yeah like Asians, oh wait they do better than whites.

@Ahmedkhan8802 Год назад

The fundamental and essential mechanism of affirmative action is racism. It requires racism at the point of selection. It requires a negative response to this critical question: In the absence of race as a criterion of selection would this candidate have been selected? It doesn't matter how holistic, careful, thorough, and intelligent the process is otherwise, race is the deciding factor. Racism is the deadly contaminant - someone is going to be rejected for being a member of a particular race. Affirmative action must go.

@dhui777 Год назад

well said

@GranolaBars11 Год назад

And your point is? Is preferring legacies, athletes, and children of donors classism too?

@Ahmedkhan8802 Год назад

@@GranolaBars11 My point is clear - please read the post again. As for the categories you mention, they should be abolished, particularly legacies. Athletes and children of donors are not apt to disappear, unfortunately, because they are revenue producers. But race is insidious, obnoxious, and egregiously wrong.

@mjm5081 Год назад

Exactly.

@SE-gs6gd Год назад

Not true. It's just not. This is the usual propaganda 🙄

@RAralar Год назад

When California got rid of AA, Asian enrollment skyrocketed

@semgonzales5430 Год назад

Fact!

@gopher7691 Год назад

Good. They earned it

@iowanation1034 Год назад

It's a topic that raises many concerns. This is the reason to end it. Affirmative Action is an evil that nees to end immediately.

@johnwhite2576 Год назад

Ok Lee so when does that change ? 300 years ? When you”feel” it’s gone”.?

@Starting_anew Год назад

It’s not “gone” yet. That’s the point.

@thesleeper200x Год назад

@@Starting_anew You don't fix the result of racism with more racism. "That house is on fire! Quick let me grab a different kind of fire!"

@GranolaBars11 Год назад

@@thesleeper200x false analogy. Clearly you didn't attend an elite university.

@_misterJ Год назад

Admissions based solely on merit may not be such a bad thing after all...

@zoeolsson5683 Год назад

Absurd to think people still think jobs are awarded on merit. Jobs are awarded on perceived fit. Why should we think schools should be on 'merit'? It's fantasy. Education and corporate sectors need regulation to craft the society we all want. White dudes think that's about their power being 'taken' unfairly because of their 'merit' being disregarded .... Yet one group of people should not rule over the other. Especially not white males which whose social training to look outside of their own concerns is limited. .... do you really want people who can't see the bigger picture and only their 'merit'? there ain't people we want as leaders. That is why we should have higher education, corporate leaders, management in ratios that reflect the ratios in the country. It's not diversity for ideas sake.... it's diversity for ideas that reflect the actual people.

@LucianaSantos-jp5jq Год назад

Really

@SE-gs6gd Год назад

In the end merit becomes irrelevant because every one is great. They have great grades they have great letters they present themselves well at the interview. When you're creating a class and alternate list at that point you start looking at things like personal life experiences who holds closest to the schools mission who shows interest in wanting to be at that school for a particular purpose and also ethnic diversity. It's just a fact that you whittle groups down to a point t where you're splitting hairs between them.

@semgonzales5430 Год назад

@@SE-gs6gd What a crazy argument

@SE-gs6gd Год назад

@semgonzales5430 its true. That's what happens in the admissions process

@Maddawg31415 Год назад

I think the salient point from this case is to what extent is society (particularly the privileged part of society) responsible for contributing to the reversal of past discrimination AND to what extent does past discrimination contribute to modern race-based inequities?

@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Год назад

Thank you for asking those questions so eloquently and respectfully. The first answer is none and the second answer is irrelevant since two wrongs do not make a right. For the record, I know your comment was politely rhetorical so I am not attacking you.

@dramese Год назад

It contributes a lot, the evidence is overwhelming, but some people’s continuous hatred against blacks, make them trigger when they hear any acknowledgement of their experiences. You can go back to hundreds years, you will hear the exact same reactions from those people. Constantly denying African American reality. If you go back to 50s look at the old footage of reactions to many white when talked about this issue, you will hear the same denials and oppositions.

@Atheistbatman Год назад

No earthworms for 2 yrs no fly larvae in trash bin Where are all the birds and bugs I remember? Adios, amigos - old horticulturist

@sallycasas4170 Год назад

Build more colleges and close prisons!

@vitodanelli Год назад

There isn’t a need or purpose for prisons?

@steve19811 Год назад

There are plenty of colleges... Look around.

@jaws392 Год назад

@Sally Casas: Yes Sally! Let's free all the rapist, beaters, and murderers from prison. Let's put your belief in the "I am an idiot and have no idea what I am taking about" category.

@donnab.333 Год назад

Affirmative Action has mostly benefited non Black Americans. Affirmative Action was supposed to "Repair" the wrongs caused by chattel slavery, black codes, jim crow, redlining, systematic injustices, sick Black babies dieing in the arms of their mother because the "white" hospital wouldn't allow them to receive emergency services (lost my uncle because of this), etc., etc. Therefore, this program should have been structured as "Lineage Based", instead of so-called "race base".

@tha1ne Год назад

"Affirmative Action has mostly benefited non Black Americans." Such utter bullshit lmao

@misstunes1765 Год назад

@@tha1ne All statistics show the demographic that has benefitted the most from Affirmative Action is Caucasian women.

@jamaicasysbm2580 Год назад

Exactly

@jamaicasysbm2580 Год назад

@@tha1ne white women benefits the most from affirmative action

@tha1ne Год назад

@@jamaicasysbm2580 not really, this is a myth that's been perpetuated but there's no evidence for it lol

@sandrariggins8307 Год назад

This is like a job when a black or Latino person is the last hired and the first fired, we still have a long way to go, society needs to look at legacy and see where the seats are going. BUT thanks to this panel, you are very good!

@friarnewborg9213 Год назад

FAIR? Is one thing. CONSTITUTIONAL? is another. Clown Prof.: "this is about RACIAL JUSTICE". NoNoNo! it is about the Constitution. Want to change the law? Take it to law makers, sir.

@gopher7691 Год назад

There are no exceptions in the 1964 civil rights act for racial discrimination to achieve diversity or to make up for the fact that a great, great, great grandfather was a slave. Why does the dean of a law school think it is ok to violate the law? Is he competent to hold his job?

@edreeves121 Год назад

Dumb it down and everyone suffers.

@josephthibeault9919 Год назад

Since affirmative action benefits mainly non black, does it still serve a purpose?

@allenhondaaccord1725 Год назад

Why the poor Resturant workers Asians kids get Punish for going to the library and study hard,

@GranolaBars11 Год назад

This has to be the most anti-asian racist thing I have ever read. I guess Jack Ma's harvard educated kids are also "kids of poor restaurant workers"

@ddn488 Год назад

I disagree. I am an imigrant and live in the US since 1982. I witness the change of the society from 1982 to now. I see more discrimation (or more in the silent way), more crime and much harder living, specially in California. The affirmative action helped Barack Hussein Obama become the US president in 2009. President Obama says ..affirmative action ‘allowed generations of students like Michelle [Obama] and me to prove we belonged... I look back the president Obama's 8 years era who has helped a lot to contribute the US society today... more homeless, more crime.. more more corruption at the high level goverment like FBI, CIA.etc.. more discrimation (in the silent way). President Obama graduated Columbia in 1983..Then I do not think that “The End of Affirmative Action Would be a Disaster”.. we just already got ONE..

@CrabbyE8 Год назад

I’m a centrist, but as someone who actually listened to the oral arguments made to the Supreme Court I was shocked at the incoherence of the arguments being made by the attorneys. It was bizarre. For those that are going to freak out when the Court comes back and axes AA, just know that sky is not going to fall. What makes America great is not about the school you can get into, it’s about the freedom to start a business, work hard, and build a life based upon merit. I feel bad for all the folks that fell into the debt trap of higher education.

@seensay2132 Год назад

Was nodding right along with you until that third paragraph about Making America Great. The problem is at the onset of AA this Great Nation was first beginning to acknowledge not only it’s role in having denied generations of Descendants of Slavery the same access to all the fruits of labor described but ALSO the long term damage that denied access did to One community in particular. AA was not meant to last forever. But not sticking to its original mission, how does Anyone claim after 400+ yrs of oppression that LESS than 50 of AA, co-opted for 35 of that, has completed the original mission? Freedom to work hard, go to school or start a business is MUCH easier said than done when you come from generational wealth passed down from ancestors actually allowed to take full advantage of What Makes America “Great.”

@lindas.martin2806 Год назад

And a formal education, preferably in a well known university or college is one criteria many, many employers use to even accept resumes, before they are reviewed. No degree, no job interview. No well known school, fewer options or interviews. If white males had been discriminated against for generation after generation(subtracting religious discrimination- my dad was refused entry to medical schools because he was a Jew) they would not be so quick to stop affirmative action. Race is one, important input among many to diversify colleges. Stopping it would be a disaster and deny opportunity to countless deserving, potential students. Just my take, I think you are attempting to be optimistic and your points are well taken.

@CrabbyE8 Год назад

@@seensay2132 I think what I'm getting at is that after listening to the back and forth between the Justices and the advocates, it became clear that the application of AA at (UNC?) was incoherent, somewhat arbitrary, and actually didn't have much impact on the current process for ensuring a diverse student body. In other words, the advocates couldn't really explain how the policy of AA was actually making a difference. I think everyone walks around assuming that AA is actually making a difference, but maybe it really isn't. Most colleges are striving, and attaining, diversity without the policy it appears. Secondly, I don't have an issue with your historical summary of oppression, but I do have an issue with the suggestion that perhaps most people who start a business come from "generational wealth." Most business owners I know come from humble beginnings - we're not trust fund babies. No, I'm the youngest of four, the first to graduate from High School, joined the USMC to escape my poverty, then went to a community college, followed by a state college, then worked my ass off for eight years learning an industry, then started my own business and now do pretty well. The reality is that most business owners have a story like mine. There just aren't enough trust fund babies out there that want to work as hard as we do. I wasn't making a MAGA comment; I was actually saying that one of the things that makes America great was that anyone in America can start from zero (like I did), not have to kiss the ring of some local politician/kleptocrat's (like so many people have to in countries around the world), to start a business, work hard, and "make it" in one generation. Food for thought . . .

@seensay2132 Год назад

@@CrabbyE8 sincerest Congrats on your story especially as a fellow entrepreneur. We’re mostly in agreement so I can definitely appreciate your perspective. I’d still counter your point about most White small business owners not being trust fund babies, as you say, is still slightly ahistorical. There are exceptions to the rule, as you describe. But fact remains as a community, American History shows that bulk of the suburban white middle class as we know it was built off both FDR’s New Deal and post WWII federal opportunities; specifically GI Bill loans to vets for homes, college and small businesses that set entire families on American Dream trajectories. It’s fact that African Americans were not only excluded from the New Deal but African American vets as well were unilaterally shut out of GI Bill opportunities while returning to segregated neighborhoods redlined by banks despite credit rating, savings and job stability. Economists have already drawn a direct line to the racial wealth gaps that exist in this country to these vastly divergent and unjust trajectories. So while you can personally attest to something of self made virtue. There are white communities in Every major U.S. city that speak to these benefits and how having family wealth for property acquisition, home down payments, paying fully for college and having the required collateral for SBA loans is the norm and over the course of several generations. This is by and large NOT the case for the overwhelming majority of African Americans generationally who don’t have A Grandmas house worth $350K+ to pull from for any of these endeavors, mostly through no fault of their own. And the COVID pandemic highlighted this disparity. So agreed, struggle is struggle. But thanks to American inequalities yet remedied, our struggles are not yet the same

@seensay2132 Год назад

@@nooneinparticular4528 lol that’s the disgusting part. This myth of America as meritocracy has always been a ruse! All the top schools, by the time we cut out the applicants who bought their way in, cheated their way in, used mommy or daddy’s connections to get in, we’re left with an over privileged class that’s had all the advantages to be elite their entire lives 😂😂😂 The word meritocracy only got tossed around when it was time to stop openly discriminating, denying otherwise qualified applicants who had always been shut out for nothing more than caste system.

@albertmgordon3637 Год назад

I agree totally with the support of your guest for affirmative action in admission to higher education. As a former member of an admission's committee in a medical school I see the value of affirmative action in training more minority physicians to help improve medical care for all.

@reignmkr64 Год назад

AA is done. Clarence Thomas has hated the way (his white peers) he thinks people have viewed his Yale law degree. He often recounts how he wasn't hired because law firms would say he was an "Affirmative Action" student. He failed and continues to fail to see that there is zero Affirmative Action regarding earning your grades and degree. However, I think universities will now be free to admit blacks and Latinos (most underrepresented) based upon contextualizing their location, schools and socio economic backgrounds without being accused of discrimination.

@starleyshelton2245 Год назад

Yet they arrive at the school with a lower level of preparedness than their class peers. This has been shown to present comprehension and frustration issues when the materials are presented based on preparatory expectations.

@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Год назад

Yes, all Affirmative Action does is stain ALL black achievements.

@gopher7691 Год назад

So I assume these two guys will immediately resign their positions so a black person can take it. You first. They are perfectly willing to force Asians to step aside but they wont give up their positions

@AJX-2 Год назад

Oh no, our institution can't discriminate against people based on race anymore.

@theeco-centric Год назад

There should be affirmative action towards everyone making under a certain amount which would naturally include a lot of African American families but also people who are multiracial or people who are also underprivileged but may not fit the profile specifically.

@davidreidenberg9941 Год назад

I totally agree. Base it on individual deprivation.

@themaskedman221 Год назад

This is one of the few social issues I side with the right on. The reality is that AA is not actually doing anything to fix the problem, which is not a matter of explicit racial bias in higher education. It's the fact that blacks and Hispanics have the lowest standardized test scores and sub-par school performance, and without AA they'd be vastly underepresented at colleges and universities. Of course the far-right likes to attribute these deficiencies to "genetic differences in IQ", but I'm not even going to go there. The real problem is wealth inequality, and the fact that tax revenues are not parceled out evenly in each state: wealthier zip codes receive disproportionate school funding and pay the highest salaries (and thus attract the best teachers), while poorer zip codes, which are often majority-minority neighborhoods, receive next to nothing while many of their schools are in a state of utter disrepair. AA doesn't do anything to address this problem, and if anything it encourages more racism. Fixing inequality (both wealth and racial inequity, which are both related) is going to require a concerted effort by the federal government and the states. And it is here where both Democrats and Republicans have failed.

@sillasaram9121 Год назад

With school choice, blacks and hispanics can go to school with most Asians. School performance is most strongly correlated with percentage of Asian student body, not with money or anything else.

@themaskedman221 Год назад

@@sillasaram9121 School performance is associated with the facilities (the environment and technologies) and, most importantly, the quality of the instructors. Home environments, personality traits and individual abilities would explain any additional differences between students at the same school. Merely going to school with Asians doesn't improve anyone's grades. You sound foolish.

@Guardian__Angel Год назад

"One of the FEW social issues" that you side with the right on?! 😆 Are you kidding me? I've read multiple comments you've written here and on other channels, and it's clear that you side with the right on EVERY issue. 😉

@sillasaram9121 Год назад

@@themaskedman221 Giving kids all kinds of "facilities" don't work. LAUSD tried this with ipads and laptops for every child, and it didn't work so they pulled them. You can make all kinds of excuses, but the fact is Asian culture promote studying which increases school performance. No amount of "facilities" will foster that. If you want your kids to do well in school, send him to school with most Asians and have him befriend Asian kids. Chances are, he'll do well in school just from peer pressure; when all his friends are at the library studying, he's not gonna be odd kid out. Giving your kids all kinds of ipads and computers won't do a thing as having him many Asians friends.

@themaskedman221 Год назад

@@sillasaram9121 A genius solution to educational inequality: "Just go to school with more Asians." Even 'Guardian Angel', who is generally an imbecile, is laughing at you.

@TijaunaK Год назад

I don't have a dog in this fight. It's whatever. For black women, you just have to use your merit alone. Always been that way for us.

@sillasaram9121 Год назад

Black women get the most preferential treatment as 1) black 2) woman. With AA, you can be dumb as door knob and black woman can make it into college.

@TijaunaK Год назад

@@sillasaram9121 Stop LYING.

@sillasaram9121 Год назад

@@TijaunaK Stop LYING. You just have to turn on the TV news to see that black women make up half the staff but 2% college grads. If you're college grad black woman, you have over 50 times higher chance of getting a job.

@CaptainNemo279 Год назад

Stop affirmative action discrimination law. Every American deserves the equal start.

@johnstewart7025 Год назад

Discrimination means that some groups start behind the starting line.

@americana1234 Год назад

Also, I agree Affirmative Action ultimately increases the well being of a nation, especially for the soul of a nation- and ours, certainly needs a re adjustment so we Can re-emergence stronger so as not to drive our species into extinction. Let affirmative action guide us to be our better human.

@greggf6831 Год назад

The well being? lol really? It's so divisive and goes against the ideal or meritocracy! It splits the nation!

@rajkoelguapo12 Год назад

How is focusing on diversity more important than meritocracy? How is that good for society? You get people placed in positions of authority and influence who aren't as competent as others. It's unfair and stupid on its face.

@dhui777 Год назад

no, AA does not increase well being of a nation. It just makes racism more persistent in a nation.

@americana1234 Год назад

@@rajkoelguapo12 what’s stupid on its face is the establishment of Ivy League schools using money earned from slavery. That’s what

@rajkoelguapo12 Год назад

@@americana1234 Slavery helped build much of this country, but not as much as some like to claim. And this unfortunate fact isn't germaine to the conversation about whether our best schools should lower the bar for certain people because of their ethnicity/skin color. Nice deflection attempt. I assume it means you lack an actual argument.

@davidreidenberg9941 Год назад

When it comes to the issue of affirmative action, the fundamental question becomes who is a member of a particular race. What do you do about biracial or multiracial individuals? This is NOT a trivial question, as it goes to the very heart of the definition of race.

@billygugen8104 Год назад

Get in on ur merit or get lost.

@Gandalf98 Год назад

Two white guys who are, at least, not dead...yet.

@tammiepulley7167 Год назад

Wonderful guests. I really feel they are passionate about this concern.

@friarnewborg9213 Год назад

But are they SOUND, constitutionally? I think NOT!

@blessedchild3590 Год назад

Love Michelle Martin.

@ClearerThanMud Год назад

Would it work to change affirmative action to be class-based, as David Brooks suggests? This would still disproportionately aid people of color but would include other folks who come from poor backgrounds as well.

@9395gb Год назад

I would be more interested to see how it would work out if colleges actually interviewed students. Grades aren't the best measure of intellect of success or ability because they tend to be biased and it's just a regurgitating information. Yes you do need to the know the basics and the facts. However, grades do not mean the students are critical thinkers, intellectual capable of advancing or being successful. I've seen this at work. The persons with best grades or IVY league degrees were not the best at their jobs or best at innovation.

@9395gb Год назад

I would also add that the admissions and hiring committees need more minorities and those who didn't go to top tier schools on the board. And I am saying this as someone who went to elite and private schools my entire life starting in preschool. On of the primary reasons Harvard and the Ivy leagues are consider too tier is because they are the oldest universities in the country. In the past, historically college was for the wealthy and wellknown because of the high costs, which typically meant white males. This is why Havard, the oldest US university, was able to build its reputation because of networking and the ability of wealthy to associate with their own. This doesn't mean they are more intelligent or capable. Again I believe in education and think everyone should be able to attend a univesity for free as it benefits society as whole, advances society and reduces crime and poverty. But these ivy league schools are sought after because of networks with the rich and powerful and ability to get a job because your buddy who went to the same Ivy league is working at the company. This why I believe there is nothing wrong with affirmative action. In fact, its needed to be able to bring in people from all backgrounds, races and cultures to exchange ideas and have the ability to get the best job opportunities.

@davidreidenberg9941 Год назад

Yes. If you want to use some form of affirmative action based on individual deprivation, that would be acceptable.

@starleyshelton2245 Год назад

@@9395gb Actually grades and then standardized testing are the best criteria for predicting future success. And if low, it is also the easiest to improve thru remedial training.

@JK-tq7bi Год назад

Doesn't matter. A smarter and more dedicated kid will still lose his spot and thats not fair. Also, admissions to high level universities are not the solution. 25% of black kids that went to MIT dropped out because they couldn't follow with the math level, also it is common to see black students finish a 4 year college in 6. This kids would have succeded at state universities. People think that just because they got in, the "equality" problem is fixed.

@marymccluer1630 Год назад

Here's an argument for the skeptics who don't think diversity matters, who believe it isn't important if few minority students attend/graduate from college: Consider this impact on our nation's GPD. White, non-Hispanic Americans now make up 60% of the national population. If it becomes more difficult for non-minority students to gain admissions and fewer such students attend college, then our nation might not enjoy the realization of their full economic potential. Put another way, if America is going to compete in the global market with more than a quarter of its population unable to attend well-funded schools, unable to enter college, and unable to realize the full potential of their talents, America will be playing with a self-inflicted handicap. Under such circumstances, well-connected individuals might benefit, but the nation, as a whole, would lose out.

@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Год назад

Who is arguing to make it more difficult for them? Nobody just wants to artificially pull them up either.

@sallycasas4170 Год назад

Affirmative action isn't just about expanding and insuring opportunities for Black, Asian, Native American, Hispanic or economically challenged applicants. Affirmative Action also protects women and children against discriminatory actions towards them by those in power in employment, education, medical services, freedom from harrassment and retaliation.

@TijaunaK Год назад

Which women though?

@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Год назад

...How so???

@FiREFLYSerenity408 Год назад

What a joke!!!

@jdice6868 Год назад

The important thing to consider is that there is conscious bias and unconscious bias. Bias is unconstitutional in hiring and application approval practices. People with conscious bias think they are justified to use bias in their hiring and application approval practices. Unconscious bias cannot be avoided in hiring and application approval practices. Affirmative action is currently the only remedy to counter a portion of the damage done by bias. Until we find a better way, it is the only way. To expect institutions to apply affirmative action without legal abutment would invite a financially prohibitive and endless number of lawsuits. Affirmative action is to hiring and application approval as democracy is to governance. It is the worst method except for all the others.

@clairerobinson7658 Год назад

Thanks for this discussion ❤

@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Год назад

'Unconscious bias' is a nonsense sociological term to undermine the 'innocent before proven guilty' doctrine that whites are supposed to be entitled to.

@semgonzales5430 Год назад

Your reasoning is flawed

@avrilstacy3133 Год назад

We need more female Doctors and Surgeons. Big men with big hands dont make good surgeons regardless of the color of their skin.

@OGPimpin Год назад

To continue to use AA helps some but also hurts others, while tossing it out hurts those it initially helped while somewhat helping others. The problem is that this is a complex problem that needs a much more efficient solution put into place. We have a bunch of people pointing the finger at each other rather than getting to the root cause of this issue and trying to build a solution from there.

@justingaffneysamuels2072 Год назад

I agree. It will be ruled unconstitutional.

@semgonzales5430 Год назад

We must have one goal in mind. Excellence. Regardless of race, gender, status, ETC.

@weston.weston Год назад

Every argument against affirmative action baffles me.

@ChaelSonnen000 Год назад

fool

@misstunes1765 Год назад

@@ChaelSonnen000 Okay, you've admitted you have a problem, that's a good first step. Now we hope you and those who concur with you get the help you all need, ASAP.

@peterzin8979 Год назад

what is baffling about selecting the best applicant? why discriminate against asians?

@weston.weston Год назад

@@peterzin8979 As stated by the guests in this interview and all basic American history, there were unique circumstances in history (the trail of tears/enslavement of African Americans by whites) that only impact Indigenous and African Americans that does not apply to other minority groups. Why do you need someone to explain basic history to you? This is why a truth and reconciliation commission is desperately needed in the US similar to what occurred in Germany and South Africa... because Americans (assuming that you are) don't know basic facts and American history. If in 2022, a person asks what is unique about the plight of African Americans in this country... they are either delusional or acting in complete bad faith.

@AdrienLegendre Год назад

Some feel that affirmative action is racist because it discriminates against a racial group, Asian Americans.

@maxwellsimoes238 Год назад

Open society NEVER close the doors to Americans Latinos Ásia Jews black people. They are discussion that keep it going undermines human rights. Before discussions this book guys most important are speak out uphuman RIGHT first.

@margo3367 Год назад

The partisan Supreme Court was the first shoe to drop for our democracy; I fear the second will take place Tuesday.

@friarnewborg9213 Год назад

You dont like a SCOTUS that follows the Constitution? I do

@maxwellsimoes238 Год назад

@ianbrade7754 Год назад

I'm new to this topic and trying to get informed on both sides of the argument for and against affirmative action. I have a question about the basis on which AA operates: Is AA applied by allowing favorable condition of entry to people of color, in terms of lower academic attainment scores, higher number of scholarships vs white people, lower student fees, etc? Or, do all students still have to meet the same minimum academic attainment scores and incur similar student debt? Thanks in anticipation and please pardon my ignorance.

@user-td2lg1fl6h Год назад

Race does become favorable as part of the score, but it only is applicable to certain minorities (not asian) in the example of admissions vs unc. For example if you are black you get a plus, but not if you are white or asian. That plus get included to the overall score of the application. It’s not a overall determining factor, but it’s a factor that benefits a specific group in scoring higher to be admitted over other equally qualified college candidates with the same score. So in the unc case, if there were three versions of you: white, asian and black and you all scored the same. The black version of you gets the plus therefore you score higher and get picked favorably. Unfortunately admissions is a zero sum game. You can listen in on the lawtube like uncivil law, who listens through the unc admissions arguments and provides input.

@ianbrade7754 Год назад

@@user-td2lg1fl6h Thank you for your reply!

@TijaunaK Год назад

I can tell you right now as a black woman that has worked in professional settings since I was 23, and went to prestigious colleges in the south, AA is not something that got my female demographic there. So, it's possible ending is not something black women with any sense are going to cry about at night. What does exist in the south and the industry I work in is white nepotism--particularly practiced by white females. An unspoken "branch" of AA is that people already in the club get to hire their relatives, friends, friends of friends and neighbors that are already in their insular communities. My point is, you have to already HAVE the network in order for AA to work for you from the start. Something that black women do not have as a collective and are now just becoming to realize that it is important for us to form exclusivity with each other.

@Les020519 Год назад

@@user-td2lg1fl6h Perhaps you as an Asian did not benefit from AA, but others do. Stop playing a victim, it sounds whiny. Would you claim that Asians have suffered in America like black people have? I assure you you did not. All of us benefit or do not benefit from a lot of things. And I guarantee you you benefit from walking the streets as an Asian person versus any black person in this country. Put your big boy pants on and suck it up. A lot of us didn’t go to the school we wanted to go to because maybe we could afford it or we didn’t have the benefit of affirmative action. That doesn’t mean we should get rid of a program that has benefited a vast majority of people who needed the help. Are you also one of those people that doesn’t believe that student debt relief is beneficial because maybe you didn’t have the same level of student debt as everyone else or you had to pay yours off? I paid mine off and I still want it for other people because I don’t think it’s right that these institutions are price gouging us even for our education. Leaving students in a lifetime of debt and preventing them from the prosperity they were sold. As a conceptual framework, affirmative action remains relevant for a national racial justice agenda. Its surviving policies are critical for dismantling institutional practices that limit opportunities for highly qualified African Americans and other marginalized racial minorities. I hate this sense of victimhood everybody has these days. Most of us live much better lives than the vast majority of people in this world, and we need to learn to be a little bit grateful for that instead of resentful for everything we didn’t have that someone else did.

@sillasaram9121 Год назад

With AA, unqualified people get into highly competitive colleges only to drop out due to difficulty whereas they could've made it in less competitive college. After dropping out, they generally don't pursue another college thus reducing the number of college grads among races who get preference with AA. It's like a scheme to keep blacks and hispanics out of graduating from college.

@alipainting Год назад

How about quadruple (or more) the size of the elite colleges so that everyone can go? Why waste talent ? The size of our population has grown.

@CrabbyE8 Год назад

We can just rename all the colleges “Harvard.” 😂

@AdrienLegendre Год назад

There is a better option. No more admissions. Post courses online with video lectures, instructional material, practice tests etc then student takes test at a test center. On campus courses for those who complete the core curriulum.

@laliday Год назад

You're missing the point.

@sallycasas4170 Год назад

💖Build Colleges, not prisons!

@SE-gs6gd Год назад

Or....make all college free. Remove the barrier of resources. Provide the same rigorous curriculum to all schools. Then let the colleges decide how their class is to be formed.

@Ahmedkhan8802 Год назад

We in the U.S. have used affirmative action to prop up a system of artificial diversity while neglecting the heavy lifting needed to bring about real equality in this country. Stone alludes to this toward the end of this video but blows it off by saying that there is no societal will to engage in this heavy lifting - this is highly debatable. Affirmative action is a numbers game and is not the answer. "Reparations"? Please - that's dumb.

@josephmiller38 Год назад

Would the elimination of affirmative action end HBCU’s?

@rainarrz3295 Год назад

So, if an individual does not fit into the categories listed under " Affirmative action" , regardless of there hard work, good grades, and skill sets, is it not considered selective discrimination to deny them help when they need it too just because they do not fit into a specified criteria? So, because I am a minority, pansexual, and female, I get special treatment because of my ethnicity, sexual orientation, and gender? Regardless of my good or bad life choices, Attitude, rude personality, lack of effort in school, and lower grade point average, because I was from a lower income household and all the other things, I get SPECIAL TREATMENT, INTO A BETTER COLLEGE, MORE FINANCIAL SUPPORT????! SOUNDS LIKE A STEAL! SIGN ME UP FOR FREE, UNEARNED MONEY THAT ISN'T MINE BY LABOR! Who cares where the cash is coming from! They are PAYING ME TO BE AT A LOWER TAX BRACKET! Oh! WAIT! Nevermind! I am not of the diversities of black, latino, hispanic, native american, asian, etc. I am half white and tend to swing more republican so I am apparently a horrible person who does not deserve to be alive, REGUARDLESS of my previously stated criteria! OH DARN!!

@ericpierce3660 Год назад

Lee Bollinger sits in his barber's chair and says "Can you give me the Boris Johnson look, I'll look dashing and devil-may-care"

@greggf6831 Год назад

The Justices are making judgements based on the Constitution not ancillary variables that have nothing to do with the Constitution. Discrimination is wrong no matter how good it makes you feel. Should Asian children suffer for past injustices no one living today had anything to do with?

@woopityscoop2863 Год назад

I think affirmative action is like a bandage that helps stop the bleeding from the real problem here. Rates of admission get lower as time goes on and giving these places a way to curtail their selection just allows them to continue along the same trend.

@justingaffneysamuels2072 Год назад

The Supreme Court will rule it unconstitutional. So it is OVER. Soon!

@starleyshelton2245 Год назад

Yet the trend is black women as proportionately the highest number of entries and graduates compared to proportion of population. And admission rates for minorities are not getting lower. Factually untrue. They have been rising since the 1950's. And isn't it racist to feel you must give extra for a group to succeed. Assuming inability based on skin color? Especially as the majority of minority and black students come from the same economic background as the white students.

@justingaffneysamuels2072 Год назад

@@starleyshelton2245 The white students do not all come from the same economic backgrounds. Nor do the other groups come from the economic background..

@starleyshelton2245 Год назад

@@justingaffneysamuels2072 However, most do come from basically upper middle class and above. Regardless of race. That is not to say there is no diverse economic history outside of that.

@semgonzales5430 Год назад

Disregarding meritocracy is promoting and encouraging mediocrity. Enough! And we already have too much of them.

@rajkoelguapo12 Год назад

Standards should never be lowered based on race. Period. Solve the problems that are creating the deficit in the first place, and don't forget to hold people responsible for the shitty choices they make and the dubious values championed within their communities. Lowering the standards for certain groups for superficial reasons only makes them seem less deserving as they didn't really earn it, and it puts less competent people out into the community. Focus on bottom to top resolutions, not top to bottom -- a backasswards method.

@laliday Год назад

You fail to see the big picture. The standards will get lower when you end the AA. It's gonna get worse for white people too. You are just too petty and self absorbed to see it.

@laliday Год назад

Besides you can't remedy 400 years of slavery with just 50 years of affirmative action. If you want to live in a better and safer country you've got to do what's right for everyone not just yourself.

@rajkoelguapo12 Год назад

@@laliday How will standards "get lower" if merit-based exceptions due to race are abolished? Do explain this magic reasoning. 🤔 White people? lol Who mentioned them? I'm talking about universal standards regardless of race (the only non-racist policy), unlike AA.

@laliday Год назад

@@rajkoelguapo12 Because intelligence and scores don't predict all outcomes. Diverse experience and backgrounds help identify and solve problems much more effectively. I don't want a genius doctor to treat my illness without listening to me describing my symptoms first. And some people don't listen, they think they know better causing problems for them. A bright person can't solve a water, energy or waste problems in Africa without being on the ground there speaking with those who live there and who would be implementing and using the new system. You have to empathize with the people to find the problem and the solution. I don't want a genius computer science people to create more technology and more problems. I want more people to bring to problems to light and help figure out solutions that work. That can't happen when you select only based on scores without caring for a more representative diversity of the student body and workforce.

@HandlingSmilus Год назад

Haha the lawyer said that skin color is not what they are talking about but Amanpour opened saying it was. 😂😂😂😂😂

@johnwhite2576 Год назад

Full disclosure ..”I went to Harvard ….and I benefited from AA

@justingaffneysamuels2072 Год назад

If that what the case, its BYE Felicia because the Supreme Court is going to end it. But to be fair, she also said it was discrimination against Asians too.

@friarnewborg9213 Год назад

I went to Harvard, and AA has COST me plenty. I hate it

@justingaffneysamuels2072 Год назад

@@friarnewborg9213 When the Supreme Court rules it unconstitutional, you should CELEBRATE. Have a party. I know I will celebrate.

@davidreidenberg9941 Год назад

So at who’s expense was your Harvard diploma purchased?

@friarnewborg9213 Год назад

@@davidreidenberg9941 My own, sir. I repaid every penny of the money borrowed to pay tuition etc, and i was a lot. And part of the expense was the hard work put in, to be considered for admission. How about you R-berg?

@laurie113 Год назад

🤮

@latlj1283 Год назад

Use race and color of skin to admit. Bingo.

@cooliekim Год назад

Legacy admissions doesn't count?

@steve19811 Год назад

Legacy admission is not racial discrimination.. Racial discrimination is not constitutional under the civil rights act....

@elizabethhenning778 Год назад

Here come the conservawhiners

@ChaelSonnen000 Год назад

Awful insult. It's like calling you a liberaidiot

@stephdrake2521 Год назад

Okay he’s an old schooler ( guy in the left ) - blacks .. really … plz try Black 1:35 Americans ….. Walter Isaac says the same thing ….. must be a age thing ….the professor ( Columbia ) on the right uses African Americans which is a better name instead of blacks ….. he was also the one who spoke the most …

@proudhammer62 Год назад

Everyone over 50 apologizes to you. I am genuflecting as I write this.

@rahinc Год назад

You have to be kidding. While we’re at it, let’s insist on calling homeless people “residentially challenged.”

@proudhammer62 Год назад

Guy in the left? Our education system sucks!

@suzannemarie1 Год назад

There are many wonderful HBCU’s. Will these schools be impacted by changes to AA?

@katewoolf6059 Год назад

I am pro affirmative action & went to an Ivy League school, and it was like little Asia. Didn't see many African Americans :( and I had hoped to see many more African Americans. It was just Asians & ppl from NYC

@latlj1283 Год назад

There are some who claim to be African American even they do not look like one. So you may have seen more African Americans but you may have not realized that. Lol...

@spiderduckpig Год назад

Seriously? What if someone called the NBA "little Africa?"

@magsbayou Год назад

Affirmative Action ending, in an ideal world, would be fantastic. However, the US is far from that ideal and therefore, it would unfortunately increase segregation. I hope I would be wrong but it would be a return to blacks creating their own economic infrastructures and jobs. It wouldn't be sufficient due to the hurdles to overcome to achieve that goal. Then again, global remote opportunities would perhaps mitigate loss of job opportunities with American companies so people would still have the opportunities to thrive. We would have to hope there would not be a return of massacres that destroyed those created infrastructures.

@WillmobilePlus Год назад

Obviously, universities are "racist", despite their hard leftist bent, and black folk are too dumb to get into them, right, maggie?

@dramese Год назад

The right wings are full of wicked, narcissists

@iamnoiseyjaxx9659 Год назад

Who.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Cares