I am impressed by 80% shooting with a flintlock smooth bore. As always this kind or testing is of interest to me. Military history is more about myth busting than one would think.
165 grains is a stout charge. I had no idea that they used such a big charge in those guns. The trigger on my Bess is pretty stiff, which is another factor in accuracy.
With this video, it is my firm opinion that you have reached a body of work worthy of several PhDs. You could rightly be called Professor Beliveau. I have learned more about the 18 th century weaponry than I thought possible. Thank you
I’d say pretty good shootin Mike, all things considered. Plus the great music too! It’s now 2023 but that target would have pleased me just fine. When we learn about and shoot our muskets it gives us an idea of the Patriots that made our country possible today. The conditions, the marching and weather conditions, carrying their musket, powder and balls plus a full pack? Going to the range a few hours, getting dirty hands, perhaps cleaning the bore a few times and of course the cleaning in the field, it’s a tiny taste of the Colonial Soldier against the worlds most powerful army, at least it was believed. They weren’t able to overcome the tenacity and Spirit of the small and under equipped American Militia. That says tons of our Ancestors! Thank You Mike! Many Blessings and home home on your Range! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
You’ve proven the point I’ve been making to people all my life. People are always badmouthing old gun tech, blabbering on and on about how those things aren’t even considered weapons. I laugh as I invite them to stand down range to prove their point and they never do it. 😆 Its nothing compared to the guns of today but they are still functional AND effective at closer ranges... like up to 100 yards. Thank you for proving this.
As another guy who buys a flintlock by choice, I second this opinion. And a thank you to Mike, I learn more about history through his videos than most everyone else.
@@centauri9458 The flintlock mechanism was king for over 200 some odd years and it was state of the art for its time with that said it was not with out its limitations the main factor was being a single shot weapon and they did not go off every single time you pulled the trigger no matter how well you maintained it. That's why they fought the way that they did was because of what was state of the art technology that was available at the time, its not that they wanted to fight that way but military tactics and doctrine are developed around the weapons technology that is available. If out of one hundred men firing a volley and 25 muskets fail to go off If were comparing the battle field tactics and technologies from the 15,16,17, and 1800s and compare them to today's modern battle field tactics and technologies. The modern battle field has become astronomically more dangerous not safer.
@@onewhotalks1943 from my short comment you came up with all that lecture? Makes no sense, I never mentioned the Battlefield Being Any More Or Less Dangerous then or now. Plus, that was a short comment from A Year Ago. And battlefields are Dangerous Across Time. Hacking with sword and axe or shooting flintlocks or launching grenades. Lecture someone else maybe the one that made the post. 😐
I read an account of a battle between some town people and some Iroquois. They said they called one guy, "Old dung breeches", after that because when the Indians attacked, "He soiled his pantaloons."
I’m not sure if this is going to work I ain’t never commented before but I recon it’s worth a try. Thank you Mr. Beliveau for making these videos! They are mighty interesting and fun to watch. Reading your articles and watching these videos really helps me with the shooting I do. Thanks!
The Netflix show "Kingdom" shows loading and shooting smooth bore rifles One character can load and shoot in just a few seconds, and really shows what a smooth bore would fair against a group of rushing zombies
Are you really sure there is such a thing as a “…smooth bore rifle…” ? I’ve never heard of such. I would think that a gun is either a smooth bore….or a rifle. It can’t be both.
@@robertwilliamson6121 There's lots of names for different smoothbores, shotgun, musket, blunderbuss, arquebus, li hua ch'iang (fire-lance), and they all function a bit differently. So instead of saying it's a "smooth-bore matchlock musketoon", just seemed fast to say "smooth-bore rifle"
@@carlredbird3054 No….you’re badly mistaken. A smooth bore has a bore that is smooth inside. It has no rifling. A rifle is a rifle because it is NOT smooth inside. It has rifling inside…the lands and grooves in a spiral pattern that grip and give spin stability to the ball or conical bullet as it is fired of out the weapon. Calling a weapon a “smooth bore rifle” is like saying someone is both very healthy and very sick at the same time. (Been shooting in competition, hunting, owning weapons and taken firearms courses for more than 60 years.)
My French Relatives in Massachusetts (Larochelle & Lemere) worked early on at Mills near Worcester, but eventually ended up orchard farmers. One of the patriarchs traveled to the Province of New York that had a foundry and purchased a Long Rifle for squirrels and pests. It was said to be .44 caliber (considered to be a small bore in those days) had deep rifling and accurate out to 200 yards and he was rumored to be a trophy winning Rifle shot. After the march on Lexington & Concord a corrupt Torie Administrator took it upon himself to enter the private homes of the Whigs and confiscate weapons including shot, ball and powder. It is said that a group from our extended family (referred to as the Brothers) appealed to some Narragansett friends and received a pair of .69 caliber (tack decorated) Charleville Muskets. The brothers cast their own .69 caliber balls from molds made in Sturbridge, whose blacksmiths risked their lives by supporting the rebels with ‘smithing when needed. The .69 caliber Charleville took many a British and Hessian for their kit, but by arming all of the Brothers they felt that they had to leave to join up with what had been the Green Mountain Boys but at that time were just a loosely organized militia. Still, operating against the British effectively. We were told that they did not enjoy the accuracy of either the Charleville or the Brown Bess (or the Committee Rifles) but made the best of what they had, they ended up quite the force with the expert tomahawk and bow training of the Green Mountain Rangers and the few allied Native Americans (who had no love for the British.) The war was long with victories and losses, but in the end they had forged a new Nation and the few remaining Brothers returned home to the apple fields.
Good video, Mike. Is that a Pedersoli Bess? They seem to shoot better than the cheaper Indian Besses. Just an FYI, in the 18th C, the tricorn was made so that the back could be loosened and the hat turned around. It made a great sun visor. There is a LOT we don't know about 18th C warfare in the Americas. We do know that the European armies were moving more toward open order, which reduces volley effectiveness, and the American Army was moving more toward the European standard of 1764. British soldiers were taught to aim at a mark and there is good evidence that engagements began at about 300 yards. Granted, casualties were light at that range, but even at close range, casualties were light, considering.
I really enjoy your level of "historic reproduction" practice of 18th century musketry. While I like your idea of the prize ... I would really like to purchase those targets! Thanks for all your efforts!
My Indian replica French 1728 musket should be here tomorrow I'd like to compare my results with it to those of a long land bess, seeing as how the two would have been on opposite sides in the F&I war. Also, try cocking your tricorn so the front point is above your right eye. A little less sun glare and allows for shouldering drills.
Stay safe brother! These indian replicas are imported as non-firing wall hangers with no vent holes ! The manufacturer uses mild steel, seamless pipes for barrels and poor quality plywoodish wood for stocks.. I've personally seen one of these guns explode during reenactment. Mind you, only powder and patch was used. Please, be sure to test fire it with 'proof' loads on a stand, remotely before trying to shoot off hand. Cheers and be safe!
@@franklinAll8735They are sold without vents so they can be shipped all over the world without violating any of the various draconian laws out there. Also, India supposedly has a law stating that only the government or official contractors can manufacture live firearms. The vast majority of exploding India muskets happen when dumbass reenactors try to get a bigger boom sound and do something stupid like over charge the barrel or put smokeless in, or some combination in a barrel that they've failed to maintain. As far as the quality of steel, the vendor I bought the gun from says that the barrels are seamless, heat treated BS970 carbon steel, which should be more than enough to safely fire a service load charge of 2F with a round ball. The stocks from this vendor are made from teak. Also, original musket barrels were made from hand forged soft wrought iron. Those have been fired safely for centuries so I'm not worried about this one. Thanks for your concern though.
@@krockpotbroccoli65 I hope it will serve you well but from my experience these guns have a myriad of problems - from unhardened frizzens to cracked stocks. The failure I witnessed was due to inconsistency in steel used for the barrel, according to the gunsmith who inspected the exploded gun. I can atest that only black powder was used and in a quantity far below serivce loads. The fact that these guns are exported as non-firing wall hangers means that the manufacture is uneligable to any liability and can use poor materials and poor quality control regime.
@@franklinAll8735 I get it. Also, I'm a trained gunsmith, although there's no money in it, so I don't work in the field anymore, so it will be given a full inspection prior to firing and the stock will be bedded if I deem it necessary. Im also going to pull the breech plug before I drill and install the flash hole liner, giving me an opportunity to give everything a very thorough inspection for defects. If you want to follow my channel, do so. I plan to be uploading content relating to this and other firearms I own and am working on.
Nice shooting Mike. Thanks for the interesting video. I would be proud to win that Target. I remember when in the 4th grade we took a class trip to Philadelphia, PA. We saw the Liberty Bell at Independence Hall. We also visited the home of Betsy Ross. I was surprised how narrow the steps were going upstairs and how small the beds were. The tour guide said that , generally, people were smaller back then. The exception being General Washington of course who, at six foot, two inches, was a giant among his peers.. So your 2/3 normal size target may actually be actual size for the time.
Great video, Mike! Interesting and highly informative, as usual. Really enjoyed it, from a historical and technical perspective. I normally shoot Ffg powder and patched ball in my Bess. Still quite a lag, between spark and discharge. Holding very steady is definitely needed! These muskets can be reasonably accurate out to at least 100 yards though, as your tests demonstrate. A comment on the battle of the Plains of Abraham. Ancestor of mine was one of the "thin red line"(78th Frasers) that defeated the French Regulars in the battle. Historical side note: Since there weren't enough men to fill the customary three ranks of the normal British battle formation, the troops were ordered to load double ball. With catastrophic result to the massed French battle lines. Events leading up to the battle, including scaling the steep cliffs below the Plains, form an epic tale all of their own. Definitely worth pursuing, for history buffs.
You're like the first one to be doing the accuracy test by priming & loading exclusively with military loads, no 3f, no 4f, no 600f priming, no fancy brass loading stick, no patched ammo, no pretty stuff, just A) the gun and what came with it from factory and B) normal service-issue loads. Both of which when combined was rightfully considered enough to put a triple-OUCH on anyone unfortunate to be fired at. I'm guessing the unexplained missed shots back then can be largely attributed to far less than optimal shooting practice for the average British soldier, flinching because of ignition delay, bad battlefield visibility (gun/cannon smoke), less time to aim (some officers would go "present fire" without even pausing), fatigue (sometimes they'd force march for days to reach the battlefield), and the added factor of battle-field stress (which needs no explanation). Even with all those factors added in, based on what I saw in the video I wouldnt want to be a fighting soldier in a 17-18-19th century battle, like.. at all. Heck, considering the projectiles they used, even the "bad" hits like those outer chest shots are sure to rip out a good deal of muscle tissue out the back, rendering the arm and sometimes the leg on that side completely useless (those who've torn a ligament/sinew/muscle on the side/back of their upper torso/chest/back know what I mean), not to mention that inner hip shot, which I commented in the previous video, just... oooofff :(
I was thinking the same thing, when caps get scarce, flint is all around and free. I found a chunk at an old homestead that looked to be used to make flints for rifles. It was flaked on different. Found alot of signs of arrowhead making but none of the flakes were the same material. Their arrow heads were mostly jasper and the suspected flint for rifles was dark flint. I really want a trapper .50 pistol. Bet it would be nice in flintlock.
thank you for testing the good old Brown Bess. Was so long waiting for. I make a lot of nice Test with my Pedersoli one, with Buck and Ball etc. Have a nice Easter together
I think that’s fairly accurate. Off the shoulder, standing. Enjoying this I’m a senior, my dad took me out to muzzle loader shooting when I was a teenager. I kind of would like to take up the hobby again.
You shouldn't be using big charges like that unless you are loading with powder that was made before 1800. After 1800 the powder was much better and more powerful. The official loading recommendation was reduced to about 120 grains. Some of that went for priming Thanks for all you do.
Mike, Really enjoyed this video. I like how you give a history lesson as a prelude before burning ‘charcoal’. As a fellow Bess enthusiast, having your target, signed, along with a photo of you in your outfit would be a Great wallpaper in my workshop. Thank you and keep up your great work!!
Mike a signed target from you would be cool to have !! And the thought of you selling targets like you got is really good idea . Hope you can cause lots of us won't them . We love old guns and a target like that would fit right in !!! Keep up the great work .!!!!!
The targets are fantastic for muskets. Worth printing and selling, especially at 18th century historic events. Many thanks for showing us the musket. I am juts beginning my research into flintlocks, and have had my eye on the Charleville for some time now. Your videos have been an excellent introduction into the hobby.
Hi Mike. Joe from Alliance, Ohio. Mike on your third string, you struck the rifle of the Frenchman target. He wouldn't have been able to fire back at you. Now, he only had his sword for defense. Good shooting, friend.
I loved my Brown Bess. Barrel was pressure tested to 300gns FFg and my load was 120gns. At night for effect I’d load 200gns of Fg and top patch, the flame was awesome 🤣🤣🤣.
I think loading for accuracy SOP was to reverse the emptied cartridge case so that the ball went in first, with the empty charge chamber acting as wadding.
Another great video Mike, thank you so much. I always wondered how a Brown Bess would do with a standard shot charge. I'm thinking if someone was mustered out of the army and took their Brown Bess with them into home life it might be what they would hunt with.
Perfect subject. We (friends & smoke eaters) just had this loud discussion last week. Goatskin was brought up as patch material to improve accuracy. Apparently an old wives tale that may be true.
In some of the mountain men stories, there is reference to buckskin as patching material. Of course, the mountain men used rifles. The point I'm making is that "pillow ticking" for patches wasn't something set in stone. People used whatever was readily available that could do the job. And having worn goatskin gloves before, I can say that it would certainly work for patches.
Great video Mike. I can’t imagine using Fg instead of FFg. The flinch and fouling must be annoying. As for the target in a giveaway, it would be great if autographed. 👍
@Michael W. Salter Yeah, for historic experiment, the load of the British brown bess is somewhere between 150 to 170 grains of 1fg or 1.5fg black powder.
I've recently bought a pedersoli brown bess in Italy, learning a lot of things watching Mike's videos. Now i'm able to hit target at 50/80 yards using the right power charge. I use salnitre paper, but i'd like to know if it's correct or not. And Mike's opinion would be very important for me, and just for all of my italian friends with the same passion. There are a lot of things to learn watching this video. ..And having nice t shirts! One of my favourite.
@@duelist1954 yes, i'm glad to order others. Perfect medium size, like a skin. I wear It in all of my shooting competition. "Boar running paper target shooting competition", very popular here, and musket shooting competition. ( sorry for my english). And you are popular too! Perfect to start next summer season too. I'm glad to show t-shirt from Rimini beach! Waiting for your video, have a beautiful shooting day Mike! 😉
Loved the video! I know this 2 years late, but I would like to toss in that these targets would be awesome! I would purchase them in a heartbeat. I’ve been looking for some like this and can’t find any!
I'm a new subscriber and I truly enjoy your musket videos. Your approach is down to earth but also very factual to performance. Keep it up. Your added comments about actual use of them is important.
