Combining BOTH Novation Circuits (Tracks & Rhythm) 

As Gabe mentions here, he's raised this with us and rest assured, we're already looking into it. We understand that reliable transitions are key, and these issues are making that a bit tricky. Hang tight! We'll keep you all updated with more concrete info as soon as we have it 😊👍

I find a lot of the major companies are designing products that at first glance have great features, but the moment you start to try to actually put them into practice in a high level performance as you've done here, they completely fall apart and we're forced to brute force our way into using the devices as they're expected to be used. Novation should be able to definitively say whether the the project switching issue is a feature or a bug. You should also be compensated for your time in essentially doing quality/feature testing that they should have done years ago. Great work!

😎 I have both devices and I’m also building a self contained live setup with them. I was sold by the “Power Combo” as Novation promised on their Live with Calc videos. I hope they fix this for the community!! I still think those devices are awesome and have hope that they grow through the years like the OG Circuit did.

It's amazing how long this problem existed before finding out. These devices have been on the market for way too long.

I only just realised that the grid effect can process live audio…. whoohoooo 🎉 that’s a bonus for other gear. Cheers.

I think I have the solution to the patterns not lining up, if I understand the problem correctly. So on a single device, when you have patterns (or pattern chains) of different lengths and you change scene, it'll cue and change when the next pattern to finish does so. If you are running a single drum pattern with a two-chain bass pattern then it matters a great deal when you cue the scene change. If you cue it while in the second of the two bass patterns, everything works like you'd expect. But if you cue it while in the first of the two bass patterns, the drum single pattern will finish and the cue will trigger halfway through your bassline. But on a single device the only effect is that your bass got cut off, probably the rhythm in your song felt really off for a bit, but they stay in alignment because everything started at the beginning of the next scene. My fix for this has been to simply duplicate the drum pattern so that all patterns and pattern chains take the same amount of time to finish so I can cue a change whenever. The problem with the way the project change is sent is that not only does all the above happen, the Tracks jumps programs in the middle of it's pattern chain and then keeps that in mind going forward. And as you've said, you may not notice it until much later, but at some point the different pattern lengths of different parts will be misaligned. For now, assuming you have the pattern space, you can just make all patterns/chains the same length of time (at least on the Rhythm) as the longest pattern in the project (especially if that longest pattern is on the Tracks!). Then the Rhythm will jump only when all the parts are equally ready to move on. Of course, that might cause the performer issues if they've muted the long melodic pattern and are trying to do some transition work (filter/tempo/etc) into what they think is cued, only to be stuck waiting another two bars from when the planned the big drop.

Been waiting for that vid 🎉

Great to see these two hooked up together . Your the best performer to figure the creases out 👍🔥 top work

I have a circuit tracks that I love. I grabbed a rhythm on crazy sale for $180 but haven't gotten around to trying it out with the tracks. Thanks for this!

I had been planning to buy Circuit Rhythm for a week. I wanted to connect it to Tracks. Some cosmic force sent your warning and I saved money and avoided frustration. Thank you!

Great vid Gabe!

Incredible series of videos. Great music in the first, and fantastic overview in the second. I ran into these same issues myself about 2 months ago. I managed to complete my track, but it was much more frustrating than I anticipated. Most importantly though, thank you for taking the time to contact, and work with Novation support, and for having enough clout to get their attention. Hopefully something is done because the Circuits are otherwise superb devices.

Great video as always and especially the deep dive in the quirks. I have both Tracks and Rhythm. Got them hoping for a self-contained dawless power-combo as advertised. Especially after seeing some Novation videos. Of course they were well made an useful, but I think your video is great in showing room for improvement, especially if someone is such a circuit power user, like you. I really hope that Novation can fix these things ASAP. Project starting out of sync seems to me like a bug that could be easily addresed by some firmware update.

Electronica…getting complicated…Rock n Roll man Rock n Roll 🎸🎶‼️

Thanks Gabe

I SO feel this frustration. Months ago I went to battle syncing the Electribe Sampler 2 with a MicroKorg. I eventually got them synced but it was after ordering a MIDI Thru Filter Box from Germany then realizing that it was more a hindrance than help, finally messing with the MicroKorg slave settings (which are displayed as alien type circles) to finally get the damn thing to play when the Electribe told it to play and shut up when the Electribe told it to shut up. Next of course will be the battle in attempting a pitch bend on the MicroKorg and having the Electribe control that. Sometimes it seems more work to make it work than being creative. I look at the roadblock before me and I don't feel inspired anymore. It just looks like frustration.

This seems bizarrely complicated for two very similar devices from the same company that really look like they should work together seamlessly.

I was going to get a tracks, but this made me so happy that I decided to go with the SP 404

17:30 the "fake" kick to trigger side chain is a classic move. It allows you to kill the real kick and still have the synths pumping, keeping your vibe for breakdowns.

I've been owning Rhythm and had a lot of fun until I realized that I feel limited to samples and it would be great to have a synth in the setup. So I thought about buying Tracks literally for this purpose. But I really wanted to make me sure that it will work. And I would say that those are minor issues! Thanks a lot for your efforts, absolutely amazing stuff!

Fixing these "bugs" would be really nice. Speaking as an owner of both Circuits. And it would be even more incredible if Novation would come up with an update that would actually make these devices sing when connected together 🎉

Yo this one here around 630 is a keeper! It is dark and lovely, but gots the beat that drives it forward. Really love the whole sound here a lot.

I’ve also tried combining them, and had some challenges. So far my best result is just sending both through my TX-6 mixer, matching the tempo and try to tigger them manually in time. 😅 adding a sync in was a missed opportunity.

This video dropping yesterday was crazy timing, as my 2nd hand Rhythm literally arrived 4 hours before this video went live! The Rhythm seemed the perfect fit for my dawless workflow as the Tracks is my brain. Over Christmas there were a few good offers of sales on new Circuit Rhythms and i held back buying new, as i had a sneaky suspicion about the midi timing of these devices. I have been building a template, over the same Christmas break, in Ableton to record my JAMuary sessions from Tracks into Ableton and i had already noticed weird midi latency timing issues when recording there. So figured if i buy 2nd hand, i can sell on again, and possibly give up and just go and buy a Digitakt to use as my brain! Seems like this video has shown my suspicions to be true, but I'll start testing later and comment back.

@14:10 I told everyone for years that there's a significant and noticeable amount of latency on the inputs of either the Tracks or the Rhythm and absolutely noone believed me? I even proved it with audio examples where you clearly could hear the same as you showed us here, everyone totally ignored it?

Thank you for your videos, especially pertaining to these devices. This explains many issues I’ve experienced with these 2. Unfortunately they don’t work sending audio through each other, there’s always a show stopping latency issues and syncing issues. The sound is noticeably out of sync when beats are stacked.

Great video. It does sound good but also a bit like a lot of work. You would imagine that the two devices should interact seamlessly.

I just hooked both of these up myself and arrived at the same conclusion: for two devices whose main appeal is ease of use, they sure are a bit janky to use together when switching projects. In some ways, I think using a Launchpad Pro (with it's built in Circuit-style sequencer) is a better way of getting that workflow into a more complex/capable setup. Hopefully though, your conversations will trigger a firmware update that'll fix this stuff. If that happens, this will be a killer live setup.

I’ll only connect them to sync start/stop then adjust the swing, often though I’ll have one at half the tempo of the other, and just manually start/stop them, they are too unstable, they are running separate audio to a mixer and I’m piping stuff I want to mangle thru the CR. CT is chords, soft synths and percussions. They make decent midi controller/sequencers.

12:11 "So, anytime I have some sort of breakdown, I have to do that" is a pretty sad indictment of mental health services in Gabe's country.

Ran into a few of these figuring out a set up with these two as well . My use case was different as I was using them to trigger external synths mostly but the pattern sync was definitely a disappointment. Another thing I’ve asked Novation about is making components ports for iOS and Android because having access to see the parameters of the built in synths would be very welcomed amongst other on the go librarian functions as well , but as met with a kind of deference about “ adding a screen “ to a “ dawless” device smh .

Edit: I forgot you could edit grid fx in components so I went there and it didn't solve my problem but it did give me a better way to frame my question: how the hell is it possible that there's no ramp up LFO?! Hey Gabe, a little off topic but I've been doing a lot of live stuff on the Rhythm lately and I have a question. The settings for the auto filter grid fx are really confusing. Is there a way to make it so that it does an "ascending" filter sweep for buildups? (as in, sweeping the cutoff from low to high?) All I can figure out how to make it do is a follow a sine LFO so its constantly modulating, or an auto "descending" sweep. And it's impossible to keep track of where the LFO is in order to trigger a buildup whenever you want it in the performance. Surely I have to be missing something.

I think combining two grooveboxes or sequencers will almost always be somehow problematic, eighter some devices are "late" as slave with pattern switching /program changes and it cuts off the first note in the sequenced pattern, or something similar, or audible parameter changes, esp with effects. I used Tracks and Mono Station, and it had the same mid-pattern switching problem on the Mono Station. That's how they work, i don't think the queing and "knowing" to start the next project with bar 1 is doable with midi/update. Maybe an option "always start project with first pattern of the selected chain" or something. So I sequenced everything with the Tracks and have no note data in the Mono Station. I don't use the Tracks synth engine, so synth 4 parts for external synths, and they don't go in the Tracks inputs, sidechain is programmed with lfos on synced synths if needed. master filter is for drums only, that has pros and cons. works well, Scenes are the best innovation of the Tracks, wish they could be coloured like projects. Another major flaw is the inability to forward midi to outputs (like digitakt and others can), so no playing/recording into the sequencer with a midi keyboard. external midi merger out/thru is a workaround. A minor annoyance is no quick shifting though bars/patterns if you just want to edit a note or note length etc. Whatever is input into the Rhythm is also a bit muffled, in addition to the delay. Tracks inputs are somehow better/different. Anyway only one master sequencer for me ever, no note data on slaved devices.

Thanx Gabe! Very informative! I have both units. But there are used in different locations for different projects. Tracks is my studio brain. Rhythm is my backpack travel device. For a sidechain effect - what if you send a midi notes of kick drum from Rhythm to Tracks (and keep other parts on different midi channels) - will the midi in for the kick drum trigger the side chain or it must be printed in the sequence?

I love Novations workflow, but I feel I’ve outgrown these devices. I wish they would combine, upgrade these devices. I’m currently looking at a Polyend Play + but I’m not sure how intuitive the workflow is.

I'm using the Circuit-Rhythm as the brain. I have it set to send out start/stop and clock midi signals only.The midi-out on the Circuit-Rhythm and Arturia-Keystep are running into a midi-merger, which runs into the the Circuit-Tracks midi-in.The Circuit Tracks midi-out and midi-thru are running into another midi-merger, which then sends midi data from the Circuit Tracks into the Korg Wavestate and Arturia Microfreak. The audio outputs from the Wavestate and Microfreak are running into the Circuit-Tracks audio inputs, and the Circuit-Tracks audio outputs are running into the Circuit-Rhythm audio inputs. The Circuit-Rhythm audio outputs are running into some old Fostex studio monitors I had laying around. So, hitting play and pause on the Circuit-Rhythm starts and stops the Circuit-Tracks, and the tempo on the Circuit-Rhythm controls the tempo on the Circuit-Tracks, including the external synths connected to the Circuit-Tracks. I can use the Arturia-Keystep to play and record both synth engines on the Circuit-Tracks. I can also use the Arturia-Keystep to play the Microfreak and Wavestate through the Circuit-Tracks, and record what I'm playing on those synths onto the Circuit-Tracks midi-tracks in real time.The grid effects on the circuit Rhythm can be applied to the entire mix, since it's controlling the clock.

You saved me $200+ dollars from adding the Rhythm alongside the tracks. Hopefully there is a fix. Can use some of that savings for a t-shirt.

I don't have either but still an interesting video. 👍

The delay issue is probably caused by the ADC at the line input. There's nothing you can do on the software side about that. But: If a Circuit Rhythm/Tracks recognizes an input source it could delay the internal sources by the ADC delay time and thus reduce or entirely eliminate the timing difference. However this could cause other issues (Audio is delayed to the LED changes or manual pad triggering) and WILL cause other issues (if you have other gear linked via midi and don't route audio through the circuit but through an external mixer because no free ports on the circuit, you have delayed audio). Not sure which one would be the best solution here...

How about a third circuit or some other sequencer with 2 midi outs (just for clock) driving both? It shouldn’t require a workaround though.

Using these for a live setup is my plan as well. My issue is loops not starting on time on the Rhythm. Its frustrating as hell. They start just a little too slow, even if the loop was loaded on at the projects tempo, then catch up. Big no go for live or even just recording a track to a DAW.

How about pattern chaining? So you only do 1 bar long pattern but you connect them. then you can always see where the track is. I know the problem from the “Launchpad Pro MK3”. sorry for my google translate english XD

had the tracks sold it wanted to try the rhythm, but just re bought the tracks again partially because i have sound packs for it already purchased and it still seems the better fit for a larger setup. And i like it's self contained but this video makes me think i made the right choice. I thought they were easy to integrate with each other myself no one ever mentioned setup between the 2 being finicky. Do you have any sound packs ya did for the tracks ? i wonder for testing purposes if it makes any difference if Tracks the master and i avoided a mixer for ever but it inevitable a recommendation is the bastl bestie for no input feedback loop.

it's a shame that there isn't some kind of latency compensation, like, offset the sounds triggered within the Rhythm by 5ms or whatever the latency is

Oof thank you for sharing all this. Almost makes me want to move on from these little guys. Maybe keep the Tracks around as a sequencer.

This might be self explanatory but I wonder what would happen if you went with two CTs or two CRs vs trying to combine the two like you did here. Would there be other quirks or less?

I just plug both into my interface (Scarlett 8i6), which avoids the latency issue. What is strange is that tracks and rhythm output different volumes. It would also be nice if there was an option to match scene changes.

I think the ProjectSwitching Problem is "ByDesign". If you would have 6 bars running in one Project, and on the other device, the Project has 8 bars looping, the devices get out of sync when one is not forced to start "immediately" controlled by the main. (or did i get the problem wrong?)

Come on, Gabe! I just bought the Tracks. Now I have to buy a Rhythm? 😝

So where's the link to the complete song?🤔

I like these two boxes but traded mine for a better groove box that fit my setup.

Is it just me or I think the timing mistakes sound ok!

Just one remark - this sound is not housy at all. It is pure trance. At least the beats you play at this video.

I cant get any sound from my tracks via rhythm 😢

You really should get a mixer... 😅 But spend at least the amount of money, the cheapest Yamaha-mixer would cost - you would regret spending less...

Sounds like you have a good excuse to buy a mixer.

Latency of input channels... This is crap why I'm selling this device. Sorry, but this is not serious at all and is not suitable for professional use!!!

So, what he is saying is, don't bother buying the Circuit Rhythm. Understood. I does go for cheaper on eBay. I had a chance to get one at $150, but passed on it.