If the idol whose tier you want to know is likely in the top 2 of their group they will be analysed in a future video of their gen, and in general I will answer most of such questions later because it's been a while since I've seen some of them
I think Kyujin - NMIXX, Jiwoo - NMIXX and Hikaru - Kep1er are really really amazing dancers. I know they are good but sometimes watching them surprises me and I remember "WOW they are DANCING - DANCING"
I rlly enjoy the speech to text in this video! Helps me concentrate on the visuals themselves rather than having to read the text then watch the dance. thx for the analysis!
I‘m really looking forward to seeing the commercial dancers shine. They’re usually thought of as less skilled if they are not the best with open style choreography or lack hiphop grooves. But there are great commercial dancers out there in the kpop industry that deserve to be talked about.
you should definitely check out her fancams, in gp999 she really shone as she was ranked #1 jpn trainee. even her audition performance on the show was crazy
1) the way i click on every upload SO fast 2) yesss, Hikaru getting the recognition she deserves! she's always been one of my fave dancers and performers of 4th gen. makes me happy to hear more about the technical reasons behind that
I AM HERE FOR THE HIKARU APPRECIATION 🔥 That aside more than tiers I think I’d be interested in the labels you’d be assigning to them since we have a generally wider variety of in terms of types of dance backgrounds - classical, street styles, open style, jazz funk (kinda sorta, probably going to see less breaking and no krump, but yay to waacking/whacking). Would be informative to know how various dance backgrounds shape their approach and technique in executing commercial choreo
You have to watch XG's predebut documentary! Hikaru was one of the 10 members who were in the last two rounds to be considered to debut in XG. Their training process for dancing was shown a lot in the documentaries. It's actually really interesting and informative. This episode focuses in depth on the Korea training camp the girls went to in their first year of training: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iknYiMrAUpc.html. All of them improved drastically by the end of their training years, and you can see their later dance performances in the next few episodes, but just this one episode gives so much information on how these girls were trained, ranked, and what level they were expected to dance at.
@@blueberrysponge42Even for me it was interesting and I'm not a dancer or singer. Just watching them putting in the work and knowing what goes on behind the scenes is really interesting to watch
I feel like right after Hikaru got cut off of the group, she imporved drastically. In teh documentary, she usually came of as B in dancing. But now she's on par with Jurin (the always rank 1 in dancing) when it comes to dancing! That's so amazing
@@michaeldeanmalonzo2423 She was only ranked in B tier at the beginning of their training in 2018. They trained together until the end of 2019. By then I would say Hikaru had already improved drastically. After that Hikaru still stayed and trained under Xgalx (Avex) with Simon. She is definitely improving all the time!
Love the haewon dance recognition! Never ceases to amaze how jype group leaders are amazing in multiple skills on top of being great leaders! Really shows their dedication and drive!!
Always appreciate how much thought and effort you put into your tier and ranking videos. It must have been tricky coming up with a system to be able to compare while preserving the nuances of different dance styles and choreos. I always feel like I learn so much from you and I have more appreciation not just for the idols but for dance as a whole 💗
Sugestion: choreography analysis ? Some that you enjoy and what make them shyne. Or for brevity tiktok dance challenges. What makes one good when you lack texture or other more in deep skill vs ones that are good for challenge x skill.
It's time to debunk the misconception that open style dancers are BETTER and MORE SKILLED than jazz-funk dancers. . . . I suddenly remembered a few RU-vid channels that say "Jihyo is a better dancer than Lisa, Chaeryeong, and Momo" because she has bigger and more energetic movements than the other three mentioned (a.k.a open style). However, I really don't think those open style rankings are an accurate basis when it comes to evaluating the overall dancing skills of idols, as well as determining who is better than who. It just creates confusion and leads to fanwars.
@@ceemaaaa I was actually talking about real/professional jazz-funk dancers not just idol dancers. Momo used to be a professional jazz-funk dancer just like her older sister, but some people seem to forget about that and insist that Jihyo is BETTER (even better than Yeji, Ryujin, and Lisa). You know what's more insane? - they think that open style tiers is the ABSOLUTE standard/criteria to evaluate an idol's dancing skills. RU-vid channels like Hopeflakes and KPop Dance Deep Dives are the ones who standardized these "open style tiers" that netizens use to compare idols and start fanwars. And just like I said, these tiers are not really an accurate basis to evaluate an idol's overall dancing skills because NOT EVERY IDOL has the same approach or style when they execute a choreography, but still there are some toxic fans out there who use it as a backup when they want to insist that their faves are better at dancing than the others (which I think is wrong). I hope I made myself clear.
@@HanniHannierHanniestSay it louder sis!! Even Jihyo herself will tell you Momo is better. I never understood how Jihyo was above Momo and Lisa in dancing skills. I mean I know Jihyo uses more power and energy(over dancing) as some may call it but still I felt she lacks something like that unique spice what makes you a dancer of dancer. Obviously she is also extremely good not downgrading her but you can tell by skills who is a better dancer even if another uses much more power than them.
I thought it's already clear how wrong the term overdancing is jihyo is known to be good not only because of power many mentioned her fluidity, torso control and groove so we're not going back to the time where her dancing skills was downgraded to "overdancing" . I guess the point is even if jihyo has better open style qualities(which is not only about dancing big and energy) open style shouldn't always be used to evaluate a dancer
@@lon8603 oh I just used the term over dancing because a lot of people use it to describe that but I don’t think she over dances I think she uses more power and perhaps more space. I really think she is a very good dancer but not better than Momo and Lisa in my eyes.
@@lon8603 Overdancing can still happen tho. It's when you're using too much energy that's way beyond your level of body control. As a result, your moves become uncoordinated and your placement gets messy. Jihyo still struggles with it. I can tell you this because I have watched her fancams for "More and More" during TWICE Ready To Be World Tour. Whenever I watch her fancams, I always skip to the chorus part and notice that the same problem keeps happening over and over again. Jihyo is a great dancer - she has the groove (and the potential for open style). But she still needs to work on her body control in order to avoid messy placement and uncoordinated movements. Nothing is wrong with her being energetic. In fact, all dancers should be energetic especially when the choreography calls for it. The only problem with her is that she is unable to maintain full control of her body, hence her moves become uncoordinated and messy, just like I said. One more thing about her is her tendency to miss certain intricate details that are supposed to be emphasized. It doesn't happen always tho... just sometimes. At this point, Lisa, Yeji, and Momo are still above her in terms of overall dance skills. She and Hikaru have similar styles, but in terms of technique and control, I gotta say Hikaru is better. FOR YOUR INFO, the amount of power and energy you're using when you dance should be proportionate to your level of body control. If you are someone who struggles with body control, it's better that you tone down your energy a little bit, and then slowly level up when you already have the ability to control your body more efficiently.
I just have seen the tiktok challenges of Newjeans and aespa, their switch of choreo bring some fresh air. Kinda suprise with WinNing execution of how sweet, decent sense of groove and quite relax. Also I think MinRin have solid technique to execute commercial steps in Armaggedon. I think it’s safe to rate all of them except Giselle at least Low MD. Btw love the interaction 🥰
I love how you explain things and your rating, some fans really that bias they couldn't see reason behind your rating. Your channel give me some hope about honest rating and people that can handle the truth because lets be honest some idol is more talented than other or more invested in their work. This channel give them recognition that they deserve❤
I like the way you do your videos! I know nothing about dance and really like the breakdown of why and what skills are needed. I still can’t identify their skills by looking at the dancing, but i hope to learn more from your videos! Maybe you could do more detailed breakdowns some day with comparisons of moves etc?
Hikaru is just so good! One thing that really differentiates her from many below her in skill is the strength she dances with. I look forward to seeing how you evaluate many of my favourites like chungha, boa and sua from dreamcatcher!
I’d be really curious to see how you evaluate AleXa due to her having a history of ballet and contemporary foundations then was trained in afro, reggaeton, twerk etc kind of styles later for her concept. She has some great choreography content out there; I recommend checking out her Holy Terrain choreography (self choreographed) and Go Down Deh!
Never heard of hikaru before this but loved watching how powerfully she dances in comparison :) i hope we can move past the need to maintain a “subdued” image with gg idol dancing one day
Really enjoy winter dance style. She definitely lacks of stage presence, still i mostly watch her fancams. She's pretty (yeah im a sucker for pretty faces and she's completely my style) but that's only not enough to keep me interested. Her kinda robotic? style, 100% control over her body, clean and precise dance moves... fck i love it so much.
Can I ask you something? In what tier would you put chaeryeong from itzy? I'm asking because she and yeji are often compared, which I think is a very complex analysis to make, since in my opinion they each are better in different aspects. Like I would say that yeji does better in open style, especially hip-hop, while chae does better in gg chores, so I would like to know your opinion. My other question is yeji used to be in a dance crew before debuting, there some fotages of her from that time, and it seems to me that she used to dance way bigger when she was with them, so this got me thinking if maybe the criticism she faced from when she debuted that would often say she "over danced", made her adapt her style and start to dance smaller, do you think that could be the case? If yes, than dk you think this could also happen to kyujin?
great video as always! btw i'm curious if you ever checked out produce 101 japan, they had a bunch of interesting dancers there like sasaki tsukushi, ishii ran, oda aruha, aramaki joa, sutani yurara, and more
@@facts_in_fiction hope you can check them out one day even just very casually and not for any analysis! the group that debuted out of it (me:i) is probably the least dance-oriented out of all the mnet-aligned survival show girl groups, but the actual show had some great dancers (who weren't really utilized well hence the lack of debuts but we move)
@@facts_in_fictionhope you check them out soon, one of those name above, ishii ran is debuting and currently the main dancer of the group and i'm curious about her dancing analysis
idk if it's enough to make a whole video on but can you make something about musicality/timing?? i'm not a very musical person myself so i always have trouble telling when somebody is on/off beat, unless it's like REALLY obvious 😭😭
Do you have any thoughts on Juhyeon of Lightsum? I think she's a really good dancer and easily able to switch between idol-style execution and her more open, big movement including style, but sadly I rarely see people talk about her because the group is so unknown...
Heyo! Just wanted to ask - How is it going with the big GG focused video? 😄 Of course, I do not want to rush you by any means. Take all the time that you need! I’m just very curious about when we can expect it, since it’s probably that one video from you that I’m the most excited for! Haha Have a great day!
always hoping to see purple kiss dosie or ireh in these rankings, always disappointed lol it was interesting to hear your reasoning for your choices tho, thank you for the video!
Great video! I don’t understand why Yeji is inconsistent with lines and details though. She shows the best angles (especially in her lower area) in choreographies like Loco, Untouchable, or Cake. Between her and Hikaru, it is a very close match because Yeji is more fluid but Hikaru shows bigger movements.
Yeji better than many people think she is. She and Soyeon ((G)I-dle) are typical example, like a dancer with the best skills and talent ends up in a group where the level of others is lower. And that's why they have to restrain themselves... so as not to stand out. As a person who has been professionally practicing and teaching dance for many years, I can confidently say that she is the best of the best in K-pop in general.
@@phoenix_renegade I agree - even though I do think Chaeryeong and Ryujin are close to Yeji, Yeji is the only one in Itzy without a consistent pattern of weakness in her techniques and is the most well-rounded. Chaeryeong nowadays is showing very obvious disconnection in connected movements and Ryujin is still struggling with excessive tensions in relaxed movements. While Yeji can be argued to be the blandest stylistically in idol dancing, that’s solely because she managed to tone down her open style techniques to fit to idol dancing. Outside of that, in hip hop, she is the most groovy, powerful, and fluid by far.
@@hieulannguyen7172 I wouldn't put my trust in these RU-vid experts. They've shown many times that they are people too and have their own biases... and in their assessments they often put this above professional assessment. An example < Ain't No Other Fan > is. His bias Karina definitely not 'all-rounder', 'cause she's weak at dancing and rapping. She's your typical idol dancer and rapper. Not bad, but not very good either. Just like 90% of idols. But as you can see, he even made a video about it and put her on the podium. That is, he showed bias over professionalism. (as a person who has been professionally involved in dancing and teaching dance for many, many years), I will express my opinion a little. To begin with, everyone has flaws. Nobody is perfect. Chaeryeong is better than Yeji, only in fluidity. But not every dance needs this. Moreover, Yeji is also very good, just not the best in that component. In almost all other components Yeji is better than Chae. Chaeryeong, perhaps one of the best < Idol Dancer >, but here’s where her limitation comes in. She really lacks a more (brutal) street / urban style and more..., that would help her become more diverse / versatility. Her stage presence is weak. She often has this constant 'freaky' expression on her face 'What am I doing here...'. Yeji doesn't have such restrictions. She is rightfully one of the best in K-pop in Open style / Freestyle. + She one of the few who can add complex and dangerous acrobatic elements to the dance. She is the best in the group in many components: artistry, passion, dynamics, isolation, stage presence, energy execution, musicality, groove, strength, styles...
Right I love their fun choreos and while idk about main dancer bc I don't get a particular flavor/style from all of them, they always all look very precise and energized to me!
Hii, how are you? I just wanted to tell you that I recently discovered your channel and I love your videos! They are really interesting and easy to follow for people who aren't dancers like me, very educative too. About this video, may I ask whats your opinion on Irene as a commercial/idols dancer? She always looked pretty inconsistent to me, sometimes she does pretty good (specially around debut) and sometimes she looks unfocused (bored, misses steps, messy, lacks power and energy), stiff and uncordinated. Could it be that she regressed or that red velvet recent choreos converged more into open style? Before she was undeniably rv 2nd best dancer but now I even like joy's dancing a bit more than hers
Hi! I agree about Irene being very inconsistent, but I do think she has a solid jazz funk/commercial foundation at least for idol standards. Last rv comeback was honestly quite weak, so maybe she has really regressed now, but naughty and monster was still pretty solid. I guess with some idols it also comes down to motivation or maybe some injuries we don't know of that cause inconsistency rather than strictly technique
Now I'm really curious, where would you place Zhang Hao using the commercial standards? I think he could potentially better in commercial than open style based on his pre-debut content, and you mentioned his commercial influences in your zerobaseone dance ranking video.
I know this is so out of the blue, but how would you rank Momo and her older sister Hana? I'm more than aware that Hana is not a KPop idol nor is she part of any pop group, but I really see Momo in her whenever she dances. Maybe it's because they both have the same Jazz-Funk technique?? So, I'm just wondering - if ever Hana is to become a KPop idol, how would you rank her and Momo (in open style)? (Asking the same question for Niki and Konon Nishimura.)
There is really no point to ranking Momo and Hana in open style when they execute everything I've ever seen with jazz funk technique! Quite sure Hana would be in the highest tier in commercial. I'm not that familiar with Kanon but whenever I saw her covers she certainly looks skilled
Hi I'm kind of curious, What do you think about riize as a whole group? (In dancing) And how would rate them from strongest to weakest? (W/ tier if possible)
Shotaro (MD+) > Seunghan/Wonbin (MD), haven't decided on a ranking for the others yet though I kinda liked what I saw from Sohee, and then Anton is last
@@facts_in_fictionI heard that many people said Dayeon is one of the best open-style dancers in 4th gen gg along with Hikaru. And they said she has one the best groove & musicality in the 4th gen. I really want to know your thoughts!❤
Companies tend to don’t want idols to dance ‘big’ in a group. If you check solo stage idols dance much more freely because they don’t want idols to accidentally hit each others and they don’t want specific idols to stand out in a group. If you are a dancer within a group you would understand what I mean by that. If you stands out and with big movement within a group you should go solo, not in a group.
Bian Gooseul ~ also the creator made a short about idol who nailed challenge more than their own groups choreos the gg idols there but less professional in open style tho (dayeon jiwoo kyujin) and hayoung@fromis low level hip-hop contest, BoA
Idk what's wrong with kpop fans on tiktok I've seen the take that kyujin and jihyo overdance there a lot especially on that talk that talk challenge with jihyo and momo some where saying that jihyo looked better because she uses too much power and that all she got but from my knowledge if you're not a developed dancer you couldn't possibly look good using power same thing with kyujin especially after the hype boy cover what do you think about this?
Julie is easily high main dancer, Luna probably also when not she's mid main dancer and i'm not really sure about Somin probably also low MD or high lead
just to clarify, the female and male dancers in respective tiers are similar in terms of skill level? Like can we compare hikaru to like ten or jisung or dino and ningning winter to jaemin jeno??
They're dancing different dance styles, so not very comparable in terms of skillset. Remember that the differentiation isn't about male and female idols per se, but about the dance styles that male and female idols are taught/expected to dance respectively.
I also want to mention that Jeno and Jaemin are probably on the level of the last "MD" ranks in the 3rd gen video, I'm a bit hesitant to officially move them up as of now but relatively speaking I definitely think that they are better than Winter and Ningning within the low MD tier
@@facts_in_fictionMaybe you could say that within the tiers it is just about as impressive to have gotten to that level of proficiency in their respective styles? (Not sure how you’ve thought about it)
@@facts_in_fictionFinally someone appreciating my girls and especially Giselle i'm tired of people saying she's the worst female dancer when she's clearly not, she's literally average. Idol dancing is not her strongest point but I think she's good for HipHop she showed some great execution with it and honestly I don't even think she's bad in Idol dancing I think she can if wanted have a great execution
Jiwoo's strength is in hip hop imo, her groove is incredible and makes her stand out in those choreos but when it comes to hip fluidity for example, she tends to skip details, so idk😀
Dayeon at least low MD that's refering to her commercial dancing or open style i would like to ask? (Saw the reply under another comment) Thank you so much 🙇🏻♂️
@@facts_in_fiction How about Hikaru open style tier i would like to ask, and what is the definition for female idol open style tier? Dayeon that tier which means low MD not mid MD right....?
@@Florasoniel honestly not sure about Hikaru, I think she dances everything in more of a commercial aesthetic, so I don't think it makes sense give her an open style tier. Judging by the old school new school challenge she also doesn't have hip hop skills
@@facts_in_fiction how about "new thing" zico's (saebbing) hikaru danced with dayeon and youngeun i would like to ask, or whether it meaned she danced with commercial way even in open style stuff...? How about "Purr" with some hiphop (?) elements, people saying she best there...? Is she and Dayeon very different approach in their choreography of "Girls"? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oMaXEz15Dmc.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--6R2GlgZAc0.html youtu.be/watch?t=775&v=2KMGx8Di0FI (also 22:58 38:07 42:53 5:33 4:51 23:31) People saying hikaru decently groovy in LVLY is that true ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tQXRfiEh3e0.html (Old school new school no Hikaru but should be youngeun and her sister... That shorts no #Hikaru tag but only #Youngeun... is it ru-vid.comARLBWZQutHU ) Anyways thank you for your informative answers!
@@Florasoniel ah never mind about the challenge then lol For saebbing hikaru doesn't seem to know the choreo that well - I think she would be able to properly do the footwork otherwise. Purr is a quintessential commercial choreo, having a few grooves here and there is actually quite typical, especially when it's something simple like the bounce (and I agree that she danced it the best). I would recommend to go on insta and look through choreos that are tagged with commercial and jazz funk to get a better impression of what it usually refers to. I'll answer the rest a bit later
Honestly? Hikaru it’s a CRAZY good dancer, on the top10 of the best dancers in her generation. Which is why I prefer her to not join XG once her contract for Kep1er is finished, Hikaru has the potential to go solo and if you give her enough vocal training she can get good on that field too, if her label wants to invest on Hikaru. But putting her in XG wouldn’t let her show off her true skills.
She is not joining XG, she was cut from the group during the training process. If you watch the XTRA XTRA documentary you can learn more about it. Plus, Kep1er has renewed their contracts
Im curious, is there any difference in wonyoung's dancing style while being in Ive & Iz*one. She had more energy in iz*one choreo's, u can see her fancams
I think like they’ve mentioned, girl group idols are more often than not able to execute open style dance routines where as boy group idols struggle w/ commercial dancing (the stigma of dancing ‘femininely’). Moonbin definitely struggled with commercial dance (see his ITZY ‘Wannabe’ cover) whereas Yeji has executed many open style bg dance challenges well! Since gg and bg choreo is prescriptively ‘different’ in many ways, it’s hard to make one-to-one comparisons since they’re operating in different dance genres. It might be more appropriate to compare Hikaru’s and ZB1’s Hanbin ability since they appear to be more well rounded dancers.
my comment does not pertain to this video in particular, but could someone explain why bada’s dancing looks so stiff? like maybe it’s just my own perception of it that’s wrong but her movements always look so tense and rigid to me and i was hoping someone could maybe explain why that would be from a technical standpoint
She uses a lot of tension, especially in the shoulder and chest area. I used to kind of dislike her style until watching SWF to be honest, then it just clicked for me but I definitely understand where you're coming from
@@facts_in_fiction Just curious- Although you already revealed where you would have Jennie placed, wouldn’t it be great to have her in the 3rd gen GG ranking video? I know it might already be stacked with many female idols and that it’s already a 3rd member of BLACKPINK, but I just think it would be interesting to have her there as a sort of comparison between her and Rosé since there are like 2 big camps where one believes that Jennie is the better dancer and the other that Rosé has the edge It would be interesting to see you having the two against each other and explain why you think that X is better than Y, because they seem to have different strengths to them Also, I can’t like that I would also just like to see if you have any updated thoughts about them haha I remember watching your previous video about them and other female idols and although I totally understood your points and reasonings, I had that lingering thought at the back of my head that whenever Jennie puts effort she seems noticeably better than she appears whenever she doesn’t give her all
@@facts_in_fiction oh waw I understimated my girl But that made me curious then chaeyeon from izone would be High Md? I've become curious about izone rank But ig Chaeyeon High Md Chaewon,Yujin,Yena MD Eunbi,Sakura Low MD Hitomi LD
@@smsjfs I’m not so sure about that. IIRC, Jihyo doesn’t really dance (Or at least that often) to anything that falls under the OS term. IIRC, the stuff that many people mention to be Open Style that she also shines in, like Icon is still commercial. It’s just sometimes the choreography plays more with her strengths which makes her shine a tad more I might be wrong tho
@@facts_in_fictionmaybe Jihyo never did anything purely open style, but people saying "Perfect World" "Icon" "Expresso" "Get Loud" "Alcohol Free" "Cry for me" are slightly less commercial and maybe have bits of open style elements in twice choreographies? Jihyo solo songs maybe also I am curious about Julie (kiss of Life) commercial too
It stands for lead and main dancer, but it doesn't refer to the official positions, it's just inspired by the terms and to give an idea of the skill level
why do we even rank dancing, these tiers are so brainless everything about grading dance is subjective especially when dancers come from diff styles and backgrounds
… dancers come from diff styles and background, but we can still identify skillfulness within a certain style… like gg dancing basically same rule be clean be accurate, ballet also has set standards, etc. In (street/open style) dance scenes there are classification of professionals too lol, also like in dance class whether advanced level / intermediate / beginners
@@dhy0114 to a point yes, but once you get to a certain level it becomes very subjective on who’s “better.” and rely on tiny details that are insignificant in the larger picture, resulting in faulty rankings that people only use to fuel fanwars🤷🏻♀️ so what’s the real point of doing this
@@joanna1825 I totally agree with you, that's why OP ranks theme because with a "low level" in a certain style, it's pretty much easy for a dancer to "rank" idol since they're not all professional/really strong in dance. But for the high levels, yes, it's more difficult to judge
I think Karina is one of the most underwhelming and inconsistent main dancers from 4th gen girlgroups. It seems that her skills have declined from when aespa first debuted. I don't even think she's the best dancer in aespa now.
the gap between her and winter is pretty big? and ningning is below winter as a dancer ( winter is better in some aspects ) giselle is the weakest. so yes, karina is STILL the best dancer in aespa. It'll take a bit time for winter to be karina level and then surpass her. ningning on the other hand, is a great performer but pretty weak dancer so idek what you're on. aespa's choreography does no justice to karina just like how seulgi's skills was beyond rv's choreography. karina shines a lot in GOT and the dance covers she does. her skills haven't declined, their choreography got worse from BM but you could literally see karina doing great in drama and savage ( + illusion ) I sometimes find it funny that people think she is not the best dancer in aespa because winter is literally behind her and no, just because ningning is great on the stage, does not mean she's a better dancer. karina >>>> winter> ningning >> giselle. according to the video, karina is above them. I'd say karina improved so much then before. yeah of course she's no yeji or Hikaru because aespa's more of a vocal and performance group.
