This is why allies rely on their Tank Destroyers or other means such as off-maps to kill axis heavies rather than using heavies of their own. The IS-2 might be tanky but it has mobility problems (which it shouldn't), its main gun can't reliably penetrate thick armor unlike SU-85s or Jacksons (which it shouldn't) and it's armor and main gun AoE was nerfed several patches ago. For allies, medium is premium imo.
I remember reading something about one of the causes of the IS-2 struggling to penetrate was because it could only be supplied with incredibly low quality ammunition
@@Spartan706 well they expect allies to perform well because we're the ones that have non-doctrinal long range tank destroyers while they don't. The funny thing is that their range advantage goes away with axis heavy tank destroyers come in play, then we're expected to use flanks and stuff but that's really hard to pull off in team games since everyone will swarm your attempt at flanking with panthers and shites once they've spotted you.
@@zephmiddendorf5633 mmm yes lelic sources show the IS2 using rocks as its ammo! The IS2 really wasnt a joke, it killed tanks very effectively and even its HE could destroy tanks. The IS2 wrecks the tiger, unfortunately not as well in game
The Russian playstyle is just very hard for me to comprehend honestly but I never complained about a faction being OP. As far as I understand it the Soviets are balanced around cheap masses and the Germans the opposite of expensive elites. In a game scenario the Axis might have 2 expensive tanks but the Soviets run em down with 3 or 4 cheaper tanks. It's not designed as a unit 1v1 game.
Tiger 2 with 88 mm also deals 240 dmg per shot, while IS-2 with 122mm deals 160 😅 , btw KT even with worse reload has a lot more dps due to the extra dmg.
IS-2 in real life -Can penetrate every single piece of enemy armor, even the Tiger II's turret and with the APCR the Jagdtiger casamate -Have a gigantic explosive filler and by the big gun, a massive cinetic energy, that can one shot everything -120 mm front plate angled at 60º, bouncing even the KWK 88 from the Tiger I easily -Chosen by finger Veteran crew from T-34 aces, scoring high kills in the eastern front -the 122 mm was deadly against infantry, because of it's HE fragmentation shell IS-2 in COH2 -Help the big cat is stronk -why my shot bounced -help commanda, there is too many panzershrecks -i've been hit with panzerfaust, my engine gone :0 -i missed the shot -i've hit the shot and it did only 1/5 of the tiger's life in damage
Actuyally, if you look at historic accounts, many IS-2s were lost to 88mm, 128mm and even 75mm fire. Even handheld 88mm Panzerschreck rocket could penetrate the front with a well placed shot. Standard rounds from the IS-2 could not RELIABLY penetrate the front armor of the King Tiger and especially not that of the Jagdtiger. The Tiger 1 was very prone to the 122mm and could only occasionally withstand it when heavily angled. The IS-2 was just as prone to the 88mm KWK36 L/56 of the Tiger 1.
@@rafayelkhosrovyan889 The first performance of the IS-2 was mostly lackluster, as the first models of the production series had a very weak upper front plate in comparison to the 1944 model, but as the crews would get more experienced and the add on armor was installed, the performance spiked, it wasn't called "victory tank" for no reason, also, a thing important to mention, the IS-2 usually was mostly deployed in places with little enemy armor, in unexpected breakthroughs. Also, the D-25T information is incorrect, the 122 mm was very capable of defeating the Tiger I easily, as records show in the tank encyclopedia, but they rarely fought, as previously mentioned, he wasn't deployed were heavy enemy armor was expected, also, as the late war tanks began having, due to nickel shortages in German factories, very brittle armor, the 122 could break the welds and cause spalling with sheer kinetic energy, this was also shown in records, specially in ISU-152 ones, this was a big factor in the Tiger II and the Jagdtiger, but besides that, I can agree with you about how a penetration wasn't reliable, even thought the 122 could defeat the Tiger II from the turret face
@@drinkyourwater1039 I mean its a 122mm gun afterall, they choose it over the 100mm because that while would be better, seen to be less reliable on the current model. IS-2 was a Counter for the Tiger IRL, it was made to be one. But I get why its on pair with the Tiger in game, as its the "Heavy tank" of the Russians... but this is also a game where you can fire 300 shoots of 88/17 pounder at a light tank, but as long you get some Engineers to repair it back to full health after each shot, it will survive. Only slow Heavy tank that is worse is the Churchill, because it has only a 75mm gun. Now I don't think IRL the Tiger II could be easly penetrated by the IS-2, mostly bc more armour... but that is not to say you could not, and its not to say you need a pen to hurt the crew inside the tank.
While IRL IS-2 one taps Tigers in any projection since 122mm is no joke. And don’t tell me relic isn’t biased towards Axis, I am Ostheer main and I feel superiority, especialy during team games
@@phoenixdelta346 oh they are, but only when you look at idiotic campaign, these balance changes however, they just implement them, the changes are decided by a certain group of players, who no doubt main axis .
Actually not. Against a normal tiger it lost in the first test, but won in the second. So 50/50. Against the others.... Well they are more expensive heavies or specialists which should win against a IS2. The Tiger Ace is a more expensive allrounder The KT is more a expensive allrounder The Jagdtiger is a Heavy Tank Destroyer + more expensive The Elefant is a Heavy TD.
The practical results of firing from the D-25T and A-19 cannons at the firing range at German captured tanks with a blunt-headed BR-471B projectile from a range of 1400 m showed the following results. The PzKpfw IV Ausf H tank was pierced through the frontal and aft armor plates. The PzKpfw V Panther tank, when hit in the upper frontal part of the armored hull, received a hole of 150×230 mm with a crack along the weld; when hit in the side of the turret, a hole of 130×130 mm was formed, the opposite side of the turret was also pierced and it was torn off along the weld. When hit in the forehead of the tower, a hole of 180×240 mm was formed, the tower was torn from the shoulder strap and shifted 500 mm from the axis of rotation. The tank PzKpfw VI Ausf E "Tiger I" when hit by a 122-mm shell in an already existing hole from an 85-mm shell in the frontal armor plate was left without an 82-mm aft armor plate, torn out along the welds, the shell went through all the internal equipment of the tank. When hit in the roof of the tower (thickness 40 mm, angle of inclination 80° to normal), there was a dent with a crack from the ricocheted projectile; when hit in the forehead of the tower, a hole of 580×130 mm was formed, the tower itself was torn from the shoulder strap and shifted 540 mm from the axis of rotation. The JagdPz "Ferdinand" self-propelled gun did not break through the forehead - the 122-mm shell pierced the first frontal 100-mm armor plate with the formation of a hole of 120×150 mm, but it was reflected from the second, when it hit the wheelhouse, a dent 100 mm deep remained in the armor plate. In early November 1944, a captured heavy tank PzKpfw VI Ausf B "Tiger II" was fired at the Kubinka training ground. A 122-mm sharp-headed shell pierced the upper frontal part (at the joints of the armor plates) from 600 m, the own 88-mm gun "Tiger II" KwK 43 coped with this armored barrier from 400 m, and the 75-mm gun "Panther" pierced the forehead of the "Tiger II" from 100 m.
the is2 in coh2 is mod.1944，it has a t-54 level's amour on the upper Amor plate. And also the right side of the turrent is tougher than mod.1943. The mod.1944 should be stronger than tiger.
Coh has never been the most realistic.I mean both the tiger and the is-2 have very similar fire rates in the game whereas in real life the is-2 had a very slow fire rate
The base damage of JS2's 122mm gun is an embarrassing 160. 160! The same as a T34!!! Whereas Jagtiger(128mm) and Elephant's(long barrel 88) are 300, Jackson(90mm) is 200. The germans have better armored and armed tanks with generally bigger health bar. I can deal with the non-penetrating shots from time to time as long as the damage are potent which they are not at the time. To say that Relic has a german bias is an understatement for sure.
Well, they expected us Allies players to flank, lay mines, use artilleries, etc to against the German armors. But that is just fricking hard. At least they should make IS-2 can easily defeat Tiger 1.
To be honest i stopped playing company of heroes becouse of how unrealistic it is, like when i get the IS-2 i expected a monster of a tank that easily smashes through fortifications (and tanks) with really good armor but instead i got this underpowered piece of shit that cant even 1v1 panther.
@@gracjanklein3691 Yeah, and t34 76 is such crap later in the game so if you dont take one of t34 85 commanders you end up without offensive tanks in the late game and its hard to make a push...
@@VisualdelightProFinns have captured next to 0 T-34/85, they entered mass production around half a year before Finns decided they no longer fancy Germans.
@@gtaclevelandcity Mowas is shit, CoH2 with mods is great, there are enough who pla with mods. CoH2 vanilla is just hillarious watching 5 minutes a rifle squad fighting anither with a distance of 5 meter. Lmao hp bar tanks is so funny
@@xDDiscoDx Uh, yeah they fucking can. That's why the developers purposely patch things to make it balanced, regardless of historical accuracy. If the game was realistic, your Tiger and Panther tanks would blow their transmissions up before even leaving the base. If the game was realistic, the Soviets would have 200 popcap and the USF would blow up any Axis unit through overwhelming air superiority. Realistic does not mean its conducive to good gameplay.
lol Tiger 1 could only penetrate the IS 2 from 500 meters in the frontal projection,is-2 destroyed the tiger with a single hit of a 122mm cannon from a distance of more than 1.5 kilometers, the attacks can be viewed in Russia in Kubinka
I never understood why the German high command felt the need to make so many different kinds of heavy tanks. Wasn't the Tiger enough? Why did they they feel the need to make an upgraded version of the Tiger, the Tiger II, with more armor and a bigger gun, but still a crew of five for a tank that was many times heavier and even more of a pain in the ass to repair. To fight what? Shermans? T-34? Maybe they were mad that the Churchill had more armor than the Tiger, so they wanted to compensate for it with a sequel. Also, for some reason, they gave the contract to two companies, so they ended up with two different versions of the Tiger II, of which they would only make use of one (technically). And then they decided that the Königstiger wasn't heavy enough, so they designed the Jagdtiger, and the Sturmtiger, and the Maus, and the Elefant, and the FREAKING 10000 BILLION TON RÄTTE. IF THE KÖNIGSTIGER WASN'T HEAVY ENOUGH, THEN WHY THE HECK DID THEY EVEN DESIGN IT???? Oh, but, you see, the Tiger was too heavy to begin with! So they went for a medium-heavy tank (what Wehraboos will call "the first MBT"), the Panther (which sounds exactly like "Panzer" btw, shit name) which is personally one of my favourite tanks, but it was just such a piece of crap. "Soviet inspired" yeah, right; the only thing they got right from the soviets is that it was manufactured by a group of conscripted toddlers who had a gun pointed to the back of their heads, and was probably driven by said toddlers to battle once finished. That thing broke down every single time, just like a commie tank! Except, since it's made with "superior German uber-tech", it's impossible to repair in the field. Seriously, why didn't they just stick with Tigers and Panzer III? They worked just fine! Though, in retrospect, I am glad they did waste their resources like they did so they'd loose the war faster.
Y'all crying in the comments forget the dumtruck of resources each of the Heavy tanks require. Especially the OKW. To put out a KT you need to spend too many resources, and by the time you do, the allies will have two mediums or two tank destroyers on their side each. This goes for every OKW tank. They're mad expensive, even to get to the point of producing them. The only allies I consider annoyingly good are the British but in terms of infantry/arty only. Other than that, yeah, the germans have many advantages. Though allies lack the tank advantage, they have many others None of the allies were built to match German armor, but all of them can reliably deal with it.
Yeah, those complains are from people who play Age of empire and warcraft 3 probably ^^ Coh 2 is a game where you actually need to USE (ie : give precise orders) your units in order to be effective ^^
@@miradics3988 no The Soviet propaganda tried to tell that but it's not true. On the other hand, most IS2s got killed in close combat by a Panzerfaust, so they weren't as effective.
What I think that Soviet's Heavies dont have a AT dedicated. KV2, IS2, ISU152 are more of AI units. And since Axis's infantry really soft to explosive due to 4men squads, they have to nerf Soviet Heavies AT power. If it was me, I would incease IS2 reload time by half (6.6 to 9.9), then increase its damage from 160 to 300 that would deal 150 damage on bounce. That would make IS2 killing infantry less (because of longer reload) but consistently deal damage on vehicle. The Pershing being able to kill infantry good was also the reason it got nerfed.
Shouldn't having more people together near a explosion be worse for resisting explosive damage? I mean, statistically, there are less chances that all of the men in the squad will die, but more men within AoE also means more chests getting impaled by flak.
KT has 45 range at all vets, IS-2 on vet 2 gets to 50 range, so you can snipe KTs with your vet2 IS-2 from a relatively safe distance, i think IS-2 is kinda underrated in this game, although not the best, its not bad imo.
hmm...ok, maby who created that game didnt know is2 have 122mm gun that can pen tiger1 every where. also tiger 2, hard but can with HE shell. also another name of this gun is destruktor - destructor because after penetration can see broken armor like a glass or plastic. didn't like games creating in head. problem 122mm gun D25T - D25 (if its realy problem?...) have alot of time reloading like a 30sec-60sec so tiger 1-2 with kwk 36, 43 can reload for 8sec -15sec, but 1 shot of 122mm that one destroyed tank no matter where place of arnor he gonna get. to kwk guns have very good pen, but! because mm of that gun small (8,8cm) every angle of armor , very bad pen, all know who very like use hard 360(front sides and back) angles armor tanks - soviet tanks, so that alot of facts need take care. like strategy games (because im here) but sad see how games showing soviet tanks like a plastic
Truth be told, these tests are somewhat unreliable in this game. Theres so many rng's going on with tank engagements. Sometimes you shoot the enemy tank and you get miss, miss, deflect, miss, while at the same time your tank eats 4 shots even though in theory, your tank should have won. I generally try to avoid head on tank battle unless i have something to support my tank. Flanking seems to be much more reliable way.
hmm.. not sure if its a fair fight between vet 5 and vet 3 units... i love this video, it gives me better idea of guaging win probability in tank encounters. would love to see 0 vet duels too!
@@FSDRyan I founded it everytime when tried to penetrate in a forward armour russian medium tanks playing at British medium tanks, I won't even talk about how it was with heavy machines. The armour of A-20 still come to me in my nightmares
Should of seen it when the game launched. Allies didnt have nearly as much AT. Penal battalions had a flamethrower instead. Which I miss they were so damn good. But you had to rely heavily on AT gun or rolling out tanks quick enough unless you went guards.
One of the German factions ( the OKW) uses a 5-tiered veterancy system; whereas the Red Army and the Wehrmacht use a 3-tiered veterancy system. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Fucking insulting. Reto thinks German tanks armor was made out of adamantium. Tiger 1 was no equal of the is2. It struggled against the 76 Sherman which in this game cannot pen a panzer 4 from the front
T 34 79 cost 90, now addig two up its just cheaper than the panther by 5 fuel. But they can't pen for nothing. Like vanilla we only have is 85 which still can bounce. And that one is for 145 fuel. Our hevies all suck, kv1 bounces, isu 152 meh. Is 2 can't pen, and KV2 is slow. While you have panther with mobility, pen and damage. Aaand fucking health and armour.
@@miradics3988 yeah and a Panther that is absolute fucking garbage against infantry while you have the kv2 is2 and isu152 that squad wipe with single round
@@layneparker7408 So me having destroyed tanks is better cause it can kill infantry? When you have bumbar, Sturm tiger and a comanderless tank which is cheap and fast and has armour?
@@miradics3988 all three allied factions have excellent non doctrine tank destroyers unlike the Germans. Combo of su85s with kv2 or is2 is really good. Also penals with satchel charges are a great deterrent for any rushing german tanks. Panthers Tiger, and tiger 2s are pretty useless against it because they are out ranged by the tds. The real trouble comes from the german jagdtigers and Ferdinand/elephant but they are also fucking useless against infantry and are very slow unlike the russian isu152.
@@layneparker7408 You literally have one of the most op tank... Only down side is that it has a slightly harder time killing infantry (which so does happen with soviet faction) soviets have an su 85, can be circled, easy to ambush from behind... Small armour... And the panther has all of this and more.
But in reality IS-2 also exploded when hit by anything because the armor quality was extremely bad at times. Also have fun with 30 seconds reload and having to lower the gun to reload, effectively losing a fire solution :P
@@Lehr-km5be that have to be the most stupidest thing i ever heard , i dont even know where to start debunking but knowing your kind it properly gonna fall on deaf ear any way.
@@huyhoangtahuu9733 You dont know anything about IS-2 do You? Yup, I thought so :) I bet you never ever heard about two-piece ammunition. I really wonder how could you start debunking what I said, if you have no knowledge on the subject whatsoever :P
@@bloq6758 It was okay for it's time (most definitely better than Tiger 2 for example) but calling it one of the best I would say is an overexaggeration. Altho reliability was much better than german heavy tanks, the armor was not really great - while on paper it did look quite good, russian tanks were rushed very quick through production - and as such armor quality varied very heavily between factories according to their quality assurance. Russian steel was also often of poor quality for the same reason. In comparison to other heavy tanks IS-2 comes out quite good, but there were not that many competitors to be quite honest - german Tiger I was arguably better in most aspects, but Tiger II was much worse due to it's many problems with engine and transmission. Churchill was much weaker in tank to tank combat, but as a infantry support vehicle it was really good and liked by soldiers. And M26 Pershing was most definitely better than both Tiger I and IS-2, having both better armor and gun penetration. The biggest problem of IS-2 was it's two piece ammunition - gun had to be manually traversed downwards to load the next shell and explosive charge (which both did weight a lot) and due to that it took at least half a minute to reload depending on crew skill. The interior was also noticeably cramped, hampering the crew performance. Placement of ammunition and fuel tanks also made it highly hazardous for the crew if the tank was hit (which was the case for a lot of soviet vehicles). The real question we could ask ourselves is: was IS-2 worth building for it's cost? And in that case I would say no. It is estimated that for the cost of one IS-2 the russians could build three to five T-34s (depending on the time, as T-34s production was simplified through the war as much as possible and IS-2 was really expensive to produce when it entered service, it took some time for the cost to go down) and a mass of T-34s was precisely what russians needed for the war of exhaustion they were waging. They could stick to T-34s for breakthroughs and SUs and ISUs series of tank destroyers and SPGs to counter german tanks and fortifications. For the germans that approach would not really work, as they needed more capable Panthers and Tigers instead of Pz IVs due to their manpower and fuel shortages. They were also more capable overall and as such they could maintain the same proficiency with less vehicles.
The thing is, typically you would also have an SU-85 with your IS-2 which is more than enough to tame the tiger. AND the IS-2 has some INSANE infantry-wiping potential. No axis tank can kill infantry as effective as the IS-2. I truly believe that the game is mostly balanced after the recent patch. The only thing I would change now is the damage on bren-commandos since they can melt a squad in a couple of seconds.
@@kvnen I feel its pretty sad that all Soviet Heavies are priority on AI power, or mostly they can do both. Which make them weaker in AT. IS2, ISU152 even with AT mode is still similar to IS2 maingun, KV2 is an arty. Jad, Elephant are always a pain to Allies tanks Specialized units are easier to control Allrounders.
Yeah we know that the game is axis bias, what else is new, nit to mention that acis still cry how op the soviets are. well, now that you got your patch have fun searching games
Allies have Better infantry, better tank destroyers, better artillery. German heavies are quit easy to deal with. 1 or 2 tds and they are basically useless due to being out ranged. The worst tank in the game by far value wise is the king tiger, slow movement speed and terrible turret traverse make a xp farm for allied tds.
