Comparing Skiffs Against My Requirements List for the New Build 

Hi, Congratz on the build! 😁 Thanks for the feedback. Interesting that it takes 9mm plywood. Is that for the bulkheads? The GIS is a bigger boat and it's all 6mm plywood, and no glass whatsoever other than the tape on the chines. Anyway, they look like great little boats and if only they had a balanced lug as option it would score even higher on the shootout. Cheers, Teo

I need something my father can safely sail and I also want to have crew aboard now and again. 😉

Thank you! 😉

I would definitely try a Goose with my GIS rig! 😁

Just be aware of CE vs CLR. From fuzzy memory, it's about 1100 mm for the OzGoose / OzRacer, it's vs about 800 or 900 mm for the GIS. Lee helm would be a Bad Thing. MIK would be happy to advise.

The Oz Goose has a large sail, 89 sq ft, and it's a balanced lug. I just added one to my fleet, will be sailing it soon.@@TheBoatRambler

Have to say I’ve been pondering the same question for years and i keep ending up at the goose. Light flexible fun, if not so pretty as many of your comparators

Hi Paul, thanks for the feedback! 😉

I think I have! If I have time I'll make a video about my final decision next week! 😉

Might I invite you to watch the second shootout and the final? 😉 2nd - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W0ao2W4Pdho.html Final - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--SbTDj_eplw.html

The 10ft dinghy was included because was mentioned a few times in comments. The material list needs to include number of sheets and thickness, lbs of epoxy resin and meters of glass if any. And a rough estimate of other timber would also be useful. The GIS to be cartopped doesn't have the 600liters floatation that I seek. 😉

The design I'm thinking about building, is the Quick Canoe Electric. It's short on built in buoyancy, but I would add some tanks. At my age, my highest priority is lightness.

I also have the plans for the quick canoe. 😉

I have built Storer's Quick Canoe and I would not call it light. There are several other canoe designs that are lighter and perform better.@@barrydavies2977

It's a really nice dinghy but it is not on this list because it has a marconi sail, it's not easy to reef underway since the sail can't be lowered, and I'm not sure I can sleep aboard.

Hi, thanks for the feed back! Technically one sail, in reality two sails, two sheets, no boom, no way! 😁

@@TheBoatRambler Aren't Clinker boats lighter as well?

Hi, lighter than what? if comparing to heavy wooden frame then yes. But nowadays with epoxy and stitch and glue methods it has no advantage weight wise.

Thanks for watching! 😉

Any one can slap a different rig on any hull. Getting it balanced without changing hull struts is a different thing all together. 😉

I built a 10 Ft. Spindrift. Amazing.🇧🇷

Thanks Sean

I can't imagine anyone going to buy a car without knowing the HP, miles per galon etc... 🤦‍♂️

@@TheBoatRambler indeed. Who would do that?

Hi, Spindrift is scored here: 😉 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W0ao2W4Pdho.html

Hi Jerry, The spindrift dinghy is very similar to the Duckworks scout. I can't sleep aboard without an additional frame and the rig is anything but versatile. I really dislike mast sleeved sails. You can't drop sail when beaching for a few minutes, and the reefing options are very limited.

Hi Jason, I saw some of your videos. The GIS will pound too if the bow is off the water, a small price to pay for having a pocket rocket! 😉

Great stuff. I am not a fan of skerry/dory type of hulls. They are wonderful boats when everything goes well but if you capsize in rough weather most will not be self rescuable! They are usually very hard to balance once flooded, even in calm waters. I don't want to demotivate you in any way, quite the opposite. It's a heads up so that you DO TRY to capsize the boat and recover it in a controlled situation so that you don't get caught off guard at some point. If you know your boat then it's easier to keep sailing and preventing the worst. Reef early! 😉 Cheers, Teo

👍🇬🇧

Thanks for the reply. I'm not familiar with that kind of sprit rig. In my mind to have the same sail area as on a balanced lug sail the mast needs to be higher which will make the boat heel more, but that's just a guess. I have grown fond of the balanced lug sail, it's dead simple to trim and reef while maintaining a performance very close to the best modern rigs.

@@TheBoatRambler The drawback in comparision to the lug is the long mast, not weight aloft, as the top yard of a lug contributes much to weight aloft. But in a small enough craft mast length doesn't matter as it's short and light enough for easy stepping/hauling. The lugsail does keep its sail area lower, but the area of the triangular sail decreases quickly with height, so stability is not nearly the issue it might seem. What I came to love about the sprit boom rig, as I got to learn it, was the many sail shape options it offered, for varying conditions, using very few strings. My boat was never meant to plane--narrow bottom--but when the breeze came on (and if the water was flat) with that sprit boom I could get it planing, hiking out, sitting on the gunwale of a tiddly open boat that was never meant to have her gunwale sat on! Great fun! Broke a frame, and a dodgy mast, doing it too. The trick was learning how to use sail shape. Open and close the leech and add or subtract draft as needed for the conditions, it's dead easy to do with a sprit boom rig just by adjusting snotter tension and the angle at which the boom intersects the clew (allowing the clew room to lift, or not). It's a rig that, if feeling lazy, just set it up, steer, and have a beer. But then when you feeling like it, start playing with things and see what you can get the boat to do! Great vids btw. Thanks!

When I mentioned the longer mas was exactly due to sail higher up. I have a Balanced lug sail on my GIS and I can reef it in 1 minute...literally! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--euDKefeNTo.html I have a spectra line tied to the boom and around the mast which does two jobs, one it holds the boom against the mast and two it prevents the boom from moving forward. This way I can move the downhaul aft a few inches aft as I need to increase leech tension. Also being a loose footed sail I can use the outhaul to control sail depth on the fly. And I just love the shape of the balanced lug sail. 😁

Thanks for this! One of my brothers has an Oughtred skiff with a rig like yours, which I've been calling "a quadrilateral sprit sail." I've got a little Phil Bolger Teal that has a "jib headed spritsail," a rig that Bolger used a lot in his smaller boats, and I love its simplicity. I've been thinking, for years, of trying a quadrilateral spritsail on the same mast, as an easy way to get some extra sail area for light summer breezes.

Just to clarify, my Cartopper does have the jib-headed sail. There are two rigs on the plans. A loose-footed, 'spritsail' rig with a 4-sided sail, and what Bolger calls a 'sprit boom' rig with a 3-sided sail and sprit boom holding out the clew. Btw, Bolger loved lugsails of all types, and even used a dipping lug on his own liveaboard boat (more a motor sailor). But like you say he also used the sprit boom rig quite a lot. (The 25-foot Black Skimmer comes to mind.) You can also put a sprit boom on a spritsail rig! (More nomenclature complications!) @@christophernoto

The GIS with no side tanks is car topable but a lot of water to bail. With the side tanks it might get to heavy for car topping. But yes it's a brilliant design still! 😁

You also have to consider what type of seas you will be sailing in. The GIS is great in flat water but will struggle with that flat bottom in heavy chop

Hi, I have sailed in the Tagus river where the chop get's to 3 feet with very short period, and in winds to 30kn. I recall a 29NM trip with winds to 20kts against the tide, alongside a Topper 14, and the GIS managed to keep up even in the heavy chop. Being a light skiff the crew placement is critical to keep the bow in the water, or just let it heel and the hard chine will act as a "V" and minimizes the pounding.

I do agree with this comment. Teo, you have been around boats, boat builders and such. I also think you can design something that is perfect for your requirements. Go dude.

That would take time and it's not guaranteed that the boat would perform the way I want. I'm a mechanical designer not a boat designer! 😅 I'm sure I could put something together and it would sail well but there are sailing boats and there are real sailing boats...

That's a great idea!

Hi Alan, I want something smaller than the GIS or the Argie, 12-13ft. the Dayboat is both to beamy and too heavy at 90kg. Cartoppable is the main requirement for the next build. The OZ Goose will be present in the final shootout. 😉

Hi, The Hitia 14 will take an hour to assemble and another to take apart on the beach. Also it's a really wet ride in anything but calm conditions.

Thanks for your feedback! And congratz on the build!!! The OZ Goose is a strong contender and it will present on the final shootout for sure. 😉 And you are right, there are really really nice color schemes on some geese for sure! This one being my favorite: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TZbuS4uei_M.html Cheers, Teo

@@TheBoatRambler Wow, that is the same video that I showed to Violet

Thanks! it will come soon, just finishing a couple of 3D models to make sure I can build them light enough! 😁

Boas! Para comparar varios tipos de vela é mais complicado, teria de ir mais em detalhes tecnicos. E nem sequer sou expert em velas! 😅 Abraço Teo

Oh yesss....😁

I sailed my GIS without the side tanks for one season. I tried the capsize drills and I found the boat to be way too unstable fully swamped even in calm conditions. And I had the extended watertight mid seat from the start which adds 150liters of buoyancy. see it here : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RWYKo0627UY.html and then I built the side tanks and tried again. Game changer!! see it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ro_w_ZR0PsA.html Build your and test it. you can always add the tanks later!

Hi Ben, I would need a trailer and a beach dolly and a place to park my car+trailer and would need to pay for a tow bar and would need a ramp to launch and if all exceeds 300kg I would need a road legal trailer and a tow license too! 😅

@@TheBoatRambler That's a long list! I have the to bar and because of my age I have all the licenses I need. Do need somewhere to park a trailer though.

been there done that! On my first season I capsize tested my GIS without the side tanks a few times and the first thing that came to my head was " I need to make it stable and take in less water or I'll never selfrescue in rough weather". Just like most boats, unfortunately. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RWYKo0627UY.html There's no chance. I would sail my GIS solo in the conditions I do without the side tanks, it would be asking for trouble.

perhaps a false floor wood be better than buoyancy tank style seats? oh and i was joking about the GIS. but really it is the closest to what you want it just need the right modifications to suit your needs. @@TheBoatRambler

Hi, The SNS is a great boat but it's too wide and is heavier than a GIS without adding anything extra to the requirements list.

😂

Glad it was helpful! 😉

I blame it on the GoPro lens! 😁

that would be a possibility...I would never used that leg of mutton sail! 😅

Thr Jimmy skiff sail is in fact small. But I don't get why you refuse the leg of mutton in general. It's said to be one of the best sails for traditional boats. The only disadvantage is, that mostly the mast don't fit in the boat when laid down. Therefore the gunter rig was developed. With the snotter you can control the sail perfectly.

I guess I'm not familiar to that rig and maybe it's why it looks awkward to me, sorry. it reminds me of an old school windsurf sail On the other hand I love the balanced lug sail and its versatility, not to mention its shape when on the "good tack" 😁

Hi, Sorry but I rate most dories very low, Im yet to see one which can be selfrescued in anything but calm seas. Most are dificult to balance once fully swamped even in calm conditions. The I550 is an awesome boat but way too big and with a 5feet draft is useless in the estuary.

one more shot at the i550 ........what is you redesigned the keel to be a swing keel.......then 5 feet draft goes away in sallow water....Just a thought...that was what I was going to do when I built mine because where I sail........there is a lot of sand bars.....and depth varies a lot. I did not want to have to worry about getting hung up. @@TheBoatRambler

Swing keels tend to unbalance the boats when not fully deployed as they change the CoE of the boat. And I do want a car topable dinghy! 😉

Hi, The GIS is a light boat so the crew/weight distribution is critical. If seating too far back it will pound a bit as the bow is too much off the water. If you keep the bow in the water it eliminates that almost 100%. Also if it heels a bit the hard chine will create a "V" reducing the pounding.

would need to take into account the mast position and sail area... That could imply changing the mast step and partner.

Indeed, the center of effort will change, I'm sure. Here's an idea for a scale model RC rudder if you want to test it first: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1JfJlXYuuUc.html @@TheBoatRambler

Oi, sim mas a vela do spindrift não me agrada nada pois é pouco versatil. Não a consigo baixar na totalidade pois tem manga no mastro e só dá para pôr um rizo. 😉

@@TheBoatRambler entendi! obrigado. Eu achei o Jimmy Skiff 2 muito bacana por não ter banco no centro, e pela bolina ser no banco lateral. Eu não conhecia este projeto e me agradou muito, mas estou ansioso pelos próximo projetos que vais mostrar, inclusive pelo qual vai escolher e creio que construirei um aqui no Brasil a partir de janeiro. grande abraço.

😁

Ok so I don't need to sleep aboard because YOU live near ICW! 😂 Here in Portugal we are not allowed to set a tent on the beach or anywhere tbh. Also on big tides islands and sand banks are flooded, or banks are inaccessible, so seeping aboard is an option. Thugs can't swim... but can get you if you are sleeping on the beach. Different people different needs...

Hi Robert. Building a boat is easy, designing one not so much. A hull needs to be designed with hydrodynamics in consideration and not just a simple "looks good and fast", it needs to be analyzed using software. I could design my own boat but I am not a boat designer. Nothing guarantees that he hull would perform well. I will look into it sometime in the future if I have the chance to learn about hydrodynamics and hull design, but for now I want something quick and cheap to build for next season.

@@TheBoatRambler I understand ... so then ... I wood chose the Goose for fishing and excitement ... or the Explorer Goose for picnics , heavier weather and little kids ! ... Either way , I look forward to the Build ! Cheers :D

Hi Mathew! all your questions answered here: 😉 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IV1OxbfFp8Q.html

In Portugal you can't just build a road trailer. It needs to be road legal and to achieve that there's a ton of €bur€aucracy€ involved! and if the boat+trailer excceeds 300kg I would need to get a tow license (like a driving license with the trailer attached to the car). Also there are not many places with ramps to get my car and trailer and launch the boat. with a light boat I just need a pair of big wheels under the boat and I'll drag it from the car park to wherever I want.

@@TheBoatRambler did,nt know they were that strict in Portugal maybe i think EU is all the same in the uk when i passed my driving test my licence allows me to tow trailers ,now i think anyone passing driving test has to do a separate towing test ,crazy rules now for everything