The song 'Clockworks ' also has a drum cam and it has a more clean audio track, seeing Thomas playing that song is an absolute journey, what a beast of a drummer! \m/
I've watched that video so many times and it never gets old. That part where it cuts out for a second then comes thundering back with that heavy groove is so badass.
He's not playing triplets, those are hertas. Hard enough to play on guitar, just insane to do it on your feet while holding down 4/4 on top, Tomas is a monster!
The hertas are actually pretty easy with the right hand. The issue is fretting the correct notes to hit at exactly the note they need to and not one note early or late
@@chadmarx7718 high speed hertas are not easy, they require a very specific technique to be developed, usually metal riffs are played with downstrokes but to hold on with bleed and play it cleanly you have to play very economic alternate picking that offsets where the initial downstroke strikes, which is very awkward at the begining. of course once you mastered the techinque you'll be fine.
@@Harbinger835 took me like 2-3 days to get the pattern up to speed, and i don't consider myself a fast learner or even a decent guitarist. It's just not too demanding for the right hand based on my experience
may be you learned guitar with a modern approach, most modern guitarist are used to play alternate picking like that, old school folks have a tendency to do downstrokes. hertas alone are easy but Meshuggah's Bleed is a high speed Herta that lasts for 7 minutes almost non stop with different patterns, I'm not a virtuous guitarist but I'm able to play moderately intricate riffs and Bleed fucked me over because I needed to retrain how I picked those patterns, now it's a warmup for me, but it was not easy to change it. @@chadmarx7718
Doug, Meshuggah is surely a difficult spoonful to swallow, but when you start understanding mainly the rythmical intricacies behind their music, you discover a gold mine. I suggest you to react to Yogev Gabay's rythmic analysis alongside listening to Meshuggah: he explains better than everyone what they are all about. At first I struggled too, but one day I opened my mind and understood!
I second this. His visualisations of the rhythm sections are on another level and it helps you appreciate (maybe not necessarily like) meshuggah much better.
I legitimately don't know if there is a metal head alive that WASN'T turned off by extreme vocals the first time they heard them. All of my friends and I all were extremely put off by them at first and only later grew to appreciate them. So no worries, Doug. We might still get ya!
Same here. It’s a taste that is acquired over years of listening. My gateway bands were bullet for my valentine and slipknot then I started them I started listening to melodic death metal. Mainly just arch enemy since they have a lot of rock style riffs with metal vocals. Then pretty much the whole metal world slowly opened to me. Now I like it all!
@@raz0rcarich99 I concur! It took me a few years to finally warm up to harsh vocals. I loved the music so I kept listening then one day I realized I get it and like them. Now I love them as well as clean singing.
@@raz0rcarich99 yes, the same way the guitars are extremely ugly and paint an atmosphere of rot and sulfur. If you're already able to take in the instruments, my guess is with little effort you can acclimate to the vocals.
Meshuggah will often consider themselves where EVERYONE in the band is a percussionist--and "Bleed" is one of their best examples of them doing this. Once you consider the vocals to be a percussive instrument, it's much easier to absorb. Also, this is where their polymeter usage blows your mind: the guitars & bass play in some other (usually odd) meter, but (some fraction of) the drums stay in 4/4. What they do is magical!
Doug, I've listened to this song hundreds of times. I don't know a single word of the song and I don't care because the music is just so damn good and speaks to me deep in my soul.
In music like this, "color" does not come from the variety of notes in the vocals. It comes from the "level of aggression" and the rhythmic patterns. It's definitely a different way of thinking about things, but it's just as valid.
This is (imo) an exercise in futility…it may be appeal to many, but (to me) lacks musicality…they’ve hammered the soul out of it…that may have been the intent…I don’t get it…
@@MarioJMunoz-cw8bf I tend to agree. I appreciate it for the skill of the musicians and for what the loyal fans get out of it, but I've been trying for years to like Meshuggah and I just can't. The droning syncopation of the drums and guitars, and the monotone scream vocals just have no melodic or redeeming quality to my ears. That said, Haake is a beast, just not the beast that I care to listen to a lot. After a couple songs I'm very ready for something else.
I love this style of metal, but it was someone else (I think here on RU-vid in the comments) who described death metal/brutal death metal vocals the best: "In this style of metal, the vocals aren't there for singing per se, they are used like just another instrument", and I do think this is the best description of them, and the best mentality to listen to songs like this.
There is a great video of comedian Bill Burr (himself a drummer) who talks about watching them play this song live and his description of the drum part and just how intricate and hard it is. It gave me a whole new appreciation for Meshuggah.
I can understand the popularity of Bleed, especially considering all the crazy footwork from Tomas, but they have lots of better material imo, including in obZen (not that Bleed is bad by any means, anyway).
Along with Opeth and Dream Theater, probably the most influential metal band of the last 30 years. Completely invented their own unique style/genre that's become known as "djent" (named after the onomatopoeia of the sound made when chugging on an 8-string guitar), but, more importantly, completely revolutionized metal rhythm. This song got famous because it's so straight-forwardly aggressive (one of their most traditionally thrashy), and because the kick-drum part is one of the most notoriously difficult ever written (it required months work of Haake to perfect). I think they have so many other songs that better show off their rhythmic complexity like Clockworks (which there's also a drum cam version for). The vocals I think fit the aesthetic of Meshuggah being a band of emotionless terminators. I've always likened Meshuggah to trying to do calculus while under heavy enemy fire. The combination of relentless, colorless aggression and the intricacy of what they're doing technically/rhythmically is such a potent combination that tickles both the animalistic and intellectual sides of my brain. It does get a bit tiring after long stretches because of the lack of color, but it's such an utterly unique aesthetic. Even the bands that have blatantly ripped them off haven't really replicated their unique sound/style.
He wouldn't get past Chuck's vocals, let alone appreciate that Chuck is doing it while playing leads. Symbolic....any song off that album would be a good place for him to start, but....... This dude HATES heavy music and all vocalists gotta sound like Jewel or Beyonce to be considered legit. Fk this dude and his opinion. Fake composer who never done squat musically that anyone can find or point to
Death: it's all about! I suggest the title track of the masterpiece "Symbolic" (1995). In my opinion, much more interesting than Meshuggah, although this swedish band has a unique sound, but with a lot of jazz fusion influence in reality...
Another suggestion: [Drum Cam] Eloy Casagrande - Means To An End (Sepultura). A drummer as or more "monstrous" than Tomas Haake from Meshuggah. And a Metal also maybe more interesting than Meshuggah...Another outstanding Sepultura song for analysis, reaction: Desperate Cry...
The song took Thomas Haake "pronounced HUL-KA" 6 months to get right during recording, 3 more months to record the remainder of the album. Most bands cut an album in a few weeks at most. Nickelback only needs a weekend. The skill required to lay down these tracks is beast level.
I cannot believe this is your first exposure to Meshuggah. Some comments are saying Clockwork (great song btw), but apart from Bleed the two other "Represent" type tracks from them is "New Millennium Cyanide Christ", and "Future Breed machine". Fredrik Thordendal is a music nerd for sure. Cheers Doug
Thomas is an insane drummer - doing 4 different rythyms at the same time... crazy - even Danny Carey said after seeing them live that he was a killer on the drums 😎🤘 Respect & Peace ☘
13:57 as a singer without perfect pitch, I hear that octatonic passage as (with arrows pointing up or down to note the voices) ^4 v3 ^2 v5 ^3 v#5 ^5 v4 : repeat. So yeah, within an octatonic scale. I use #5 instead of b6 because I always hear a #9 chord quality (rooted on scale degree 3 assuming a major key like the notes I wrote earlier, so like E#9 assuming "C major") that technically makes the top note scale degree x4 instead of 5, but the proper notation is cursed in some.way no matter what enharmonic spellings you choose. My modus operandi for #9 chords is to act like the #9 is actually just the minor 3rd over the major 3rd with the m7th in-between to make them play a bit nicer together. Root is optional but nice, and 5th is super optional.
Tomas is an absolute monster of endurance, Meshuggah routinely does 2-3 hour gigs with this kind of drumming all throughout. The man's in his 50s too! Growls as a vocal style are definitely an acquired taste and not one that most people will ever be able to acquire. Tonality isn't even a point in those kinds of vocals anymore, they shift vocals more into the rhythm section so that guitars/keyboards/etc. can have the driver's seat in terms of melody (or in the case of Meshuggah, dissonance.) The lyrics are often as harsh as the vocals. Just another magically bizarre way you can express emotion through music, even if it does subvert a lot of people's notion of what music "should" be like.
To be fair though, most (if any) of their songs are not as double kick heavy as Bleed. I remember reading Tomas say in an interview, that he sometimes has problems with one of his legs getting numb during performance. But yeah, Tomas is a true drum giant.
@@scypheNo, there is actually s really cool arangement of the vocals, even Tomas said in an interview that they arrange the lyrics in a rythmical way, in this song you can hear a 5 over 4 section polyrythm where Tomas is playing 4 on the cymbal and the vocals are on 5. It sounds really groovy, so cool. Stop criticizing if you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I’ve never seen a reaction channel who knew nothing about Meshuggah going in pinpoint as many things correctly as you have. All their songs are in 4/4 and you nailed it. Even songs or sections of songs that sound like you’re in a trash truck tumbling down a mountain are in 4/4. I’m a rhythm section guy so your analysis on harmony and scales loses me a bit. And you’re the first reviewer who pronounced Tomas’ name correctly. Meshuggah is the grandfather of an entire genre, and in my opinion no group does it better. There are some great ones out there, but you can’t deny the chaotic and calculated power of the Norse gods upon which those many houses were built. One last thought- Jens’ voice in a acquired taste. I’m not a metal head. There are only three or four metal artists I give my time to. No issue from my end if you’re not into the vocal style, but I n my opinion, he sounds like fear and desperation rather than cocky aggression like I hear in a lot of other vocalists. Listen like you can hear his fear and maybe you’ll start to understand the appeal. Maybe not. They are describing hell as victims- not executing its punishments. That’s how I make it make sense to me anyway.
It is cool that you took this on. Your don't have to like every element of it, but you gave it an honest, open minded shot. You were honest without being condescending or claiming any of it is "wrong" in a sense. I appreciate that about your analysis. (always, not just on this one) I wish I could listen to music the same way, that is why you are a great teacher!
Thanks Doug. Meshuggah fills a void that not many can. My own experience of their sound is quite meditative, once you let go and go beyond the harshness. My experience of it is like swimming in the ocean when the waves to shore are rough. Initially the waves are alarming and one almost senses annihilation. Yet, in time, as you interact with it and ride them, there is a rhythm, or should I say multiple overlaid rhythms which buffet and thrash against you, almost constantly, to the point you find the peace within it. That's where, to me, their genius lies. It's in looking deeply past their harshness to find what is always there in each of us. That peaceful shining light unchanging upon which their music rests. You can sense it initially in their quiet passages. Yet it's in the depth of the seeming chaos and intensity that the deepest experience of inner quiet is achieved. Thanks for expanding your experience to include them. Maybe next you could do, "In Death Is Life" and "In Death is Death", my favorite dichotomy. How that moves into "Shed" is pure magic. Love ya!
The drummer, Tomas, writes most of the lyrics if I'm not mistaken. More specifically, you might be interested to listen to the vocals from a percussion standpoint, because the rhythms do some fun things against what the drums are doing.
@@cryptoholica72Plenty of people can understand the lyrics. I hear this argument all the time, mostly from people who don’t listen to this kind of music. Which is fine, this music isn’t for everyone. But it’s not that the lyrics aren’t understandable, it’s just that YOU can’t understand them. Just like other aspects of music take a trained ear to hear, so do harsh vocals.
I would say a large amount of metal bands that use harsh vocals use them like that. It's just a different way of looking at vocals which takes time to grasp and might not click at all for plenty of people. It took a while for me as well when I started getting into metal. You will also understand them better after getting used to harsh vocals.
The vocals in heavy music is actually quite varied, and it is actually heavily unique to each person, while still allowing for changing your sound by activating different vocal techniques/shaping your tongue or mouth. Also, in a metal show the vocalists don't have to be as clear as they would when in the recording booth, since they are acting as the frontman and the fans, being fans, have already memorized all those lyrics. If you want an easier time with the vocals I would recommend the studio recording, but also I get that it just doesn't sit right with some people. I just felt that metal vocals are misunderstood, and that people need to understand that it's still a form of singing, even if it doesn't sound like notes
I would argue that the colour is still there it's changed from what you might expect, but most folks into heavy music can identify the vocalist by just their unique vocal sound.
Meshuggah has inspired countless bands and accidentally inspired the entire Djent style of music. The vocals are like a rhythmic instrument, the lyrics are so complicated and meaningful, this style of delivery fits the intensity of the music. Guitar player has some reslly great melodic solos, doesn't just shred scales. Closed Eye Visuals, Rational Gaze, and Demiurge are great songs to check out. Once you get a taste for this band there's no going back, they have a special quality that is often replicated, but never duplicated.
@cryptoholica7220 not sure what you mean, but I'll elaborate anyways. They used giant gauge strings on their guitars way back when to make meaty riffs. People like Misha Mansoor heard that, tried to replicate, and the phenomenon known as "djent" started. Not saying they are djent at all, just saying they have inspired a ton of bands, Volumes, Erra, Gojira, Periphery, Animals As Leaders, etc.
@@cryptoholica72 god damn troll, stop spamming your comments. You say its nothing new? Well Meshuggah were first in all this, they created what you say is nothing new.
I tend to tune out Jens’ vocals and lock into the rhythm. That’s what they want, he’s just there to extend his syllables to add to the groove. A good example of that is Perpetual Black Second or Neurotica. It sounds like he’s rapping when he follows those crazy rhythms.
No, that's not just what he's there for. The way Meshuggah operate is to use everything as a percussion instrument. Jens vocals absolutely fit in perfectly and drive the music along as much as every other instrument. The song would sound incomplete without Jens vocals.
@@darrynmccartney1118absolutely, jens fills every gap in their instrumentals perfectly well because a majority of his vocal patterns and rhythms are written by the other bandmates. he's the emotion of the band, without him they'd just be instrumental prog metal.
Meshuggah is one of those bands that had several "eras" where they've experimented in many different ways while keeping a certain core sound. Their current vibe has a certain droning quality to it, a sound they have completely mastered, but you may wish to check out some of their earlier albums to hear some of those jazz and progressive influences. I am biased as my internet moniker attests to and would recommend finding the track "Soul Burn" from "Destroy Erase Improve", but honestly I'd probably recommend more the song "Gods of Rapture" from their EP "None" which shows off a wider palette of what the band has to offer. Plus I defy you to figure out what time signature the last riff of that song is in :)
I’ve had the None CD for prolly 20 years now. Got the vinyl for Christmas (for my kids, of course…) and it’s just another dimension. Wonderful experience.
This is the only band I can listen to with lyrics like this. I mean what else are you gonna do to match the sheer brutality of this music? And nobody does it better imo.
Meshuggah really excels at rhythms. Bleed is really one of their most "straight forward" songs in a sense that it's mostly just exploring different iterations of the Herta rhythm. At least it feels like that to me. I think you would really enjoy songs like Clockworks, Rational Gaze or Stengah if you can get past the vocals. I think of one note growling vocals like these as yet another rhythm; it's less a way to deliver lyrics and more just another piece in the "puzzle of aggression" that is extreme metal.
I learned to appreciate what Jens does with his vocals more once i started thinking of the vocals as being part of the percussion for the songs. That's especially true on the more syncopated songs. Bleed is relatively straightforward in terms of the rhythm (despite how insanely technical Haake's foot hertas are, and how difficult that is to play). On a song like Spasm off of the Nothing album it's much harder to anticipate what the rhythm is because they are breaking the bar everywhere. The syncopations and accents key off of the rhythm of the lyrics, rather than off of a numeric count. Jens is holding the band together in time with his vocal performance like a conductor's baton. The sections where there are no lyrics are more rhythmically predictable because they are harder to remember without the lyrics there to guide the rhythm.
Sooooo good! 🤘🤘 It creates so much bubbling emotions when I listen. I wanna laugh, cry and just feel everything permeating and percolating beneath the surface ready to snap. Lose your mind in Meshuggah.
The vocals are used just like another instrument, creating another pattern, and after a while you will see it like that. I am into heavy music and it took me a while to warm up to Jens's vocals. Now I can't imagine anyone else in his place. Also, after some listening you can totally start to understand the lyrics ahaha
Love this reaction: Focusing on the songwriting and meaning. Picking up on the octatonic scale stuff. Most reactions just focus on the drum pattern and how 'hard' it is.
Mr. Helvering, I think Travis Ryan from Cattle Decapitation is the exact opposite of your problem with extreme metal vocals as mentioned in your comment around 12 minutes in. He has some of the biggest range in the genre today. I highly recommend "Death Atlas" or "Just Another Body" from their new album.
the fact that this song is about a stroke caused by an anheurysm just makes SO MUCH SENSE. Seeing it life honestly felt somewhere between hypnotic and seizure inducing.
I always drum barefoot. I can feel the pedals and make sure I'm on the right spot. It's hertas on the feet (which is a type of triplet), 7/4 mostly with his right hand and mostly 4/4 with his left. Tomas' process is to write his parts on a drum machine, then figure out how to play them on a live kit. I've heard him say this song took him 6 months to learn and master. Lastly the feet (aside from endurance) are the easy part. Like Ron Popeil, just set it and forget it. Straight hertas (2 right kicks for every left kick, or 2 left one right, if that's your preference).
Meshuggah have quite a harsh sound that takes a while to get used to, do come back to them and explore other extreme metal, you'll start hearing the lyrics and everything that's going on, take's time to adjust.
Most of their songs are in 4/4, with a few exceptions. There are usually a lot of shenanigans happening around it, however. The popular saying how to "follow along" is to listen to Haake's china/hihat, which normally follows the 4/4 beat.
Everyone's saying it, but I'll repeat it: listen to the vocals first and foremost as an instrument. Dont stress about understanding the lyrics. You'll enjoy it more.
If you're not interested in hearing Jens' vocals (which I don't get, but hey, to each their own! 😉), they have an instrumental from their newest album Immutable, called 'They Move Below', which is - IMO - absolutely incredible!
I would've done Between the Buried and Me before diving into Meshuggah I recommend anything off "Colors," OR "Fix the Error" which features Mike Portnoy and Animals as Leaders drummers as guests
Tom does the guitar rhythm pattern with the legs (you need to watch a video explaining this, it's too complicated to explain 😁) and the arms do something else with a completely different metric. Since his legs are always working, he even has 2 hi-hats, one opened and one closed. This guy is like god level.
Ooooh boy, i love meshuggah to absolute death, but I just know Doug will be turned off by the relentless double bass haha! Btw, please check out Reptile by Periphery! It's a 16 minute prog metal epic, you'll love it
Hey Doug! Just found your Yes reaction videos and thoroughly enjoying them as they are my favorite band. As far as Meshuggah goes, I recommend their song called "I". As far as other metal that it doesn't look like you’ve covered on your channel, I recommend Between The Buried And Me. Their song Selkies: The Endless Obsession is a great entry point for the band.
To hear more of the jazz try Dancers to a Discordant System (also a little more vocal coloring there ;) and considered by a lot of people as their magnum opus) or Straws pulled at Random (great relaxing outro). Another interesting one is Do Not Look Down where they play a 17 beat riff over a 4/4 so it shifts and alternates from up to down beat but the tonal modulations stay within the 4/4 and thus happen mid riff and never at the same place. The vocals in Meshuggah are almost like another rhythm guitar. It's more about the rhythm than the melody. And yes, Yogev Gabay has great explainers that made me understand what is great about Meshuggah. Another very funny explainer is by Ben Eller called: Stuff Meshuggah Does.
I like the comment about the vocals, I get that point. The same have been said about distorted guitars, that the natural sound of the guitar doesn't show, when it's all distorted. Which is also true, still when you are able to hear, you can hear the players individual touch, both guitar and vocal.
It took me a while to get used to the vocals for Messugah. I get it. Just dont let it stop you from looking at other songs by them. Others have said it, but I view the vocals as more a part of the rhythm
Jens vocal style is an style it takes some getting used to, i also struggled with the style for a while, now i do love it as i can have fallen in love with the band, what helped me is if you view Jen`s vocals as an attempt to match the intensity of Haake`s drumming, so they function almost as another set of percussion. You should also check out the song Clockworks out, their is another cam video of it on RU-vid. the guys in Meshuggah are in my opinion the best musicians in all of metal(which by itself is an insane feat considering the abundance of great talents in metal, the only band close to being as insane technically as Meshuggah in my opinion is the band Archspire.)
All MWshuggah songs are in 4/4 as far as I know. Their whole deal is coming up with as many permutations of syncopation as possible, and the vocals are included in that. They're just another percussion instrument. And you're straight up wrong about the loss of an individual's vocal color with harsh vocals. Vocal analysts on youtube have gotten really into them. Jari from Wintersun sounds completely different from Adrienne from Seven Spires who sounds entirely different from Mikael from Opeth. It absolutely takes some time to develop an ear for it, but they are anything but an undifferentiated mass.
Completely understand your reaction to the vocals. Not a style that is easy for most to get into. I do prefer a cleaner operatic style like Bruce Dickenson or Ronnie James Dio.. however it is quiite possible to actually get into this vocal style. You actually touched on it for a second when you described his voice as an instrument. The way I got into the vocals is I literally ignored the lyrics upon repeated listenings of the song. I took it as just another instrument within an instrumental. No different than another guitar... similar to the way people convert songs to MIDI songs.. with the vocals being represented by just another instrument. Eventually I came to expect the voice instrument to sound 'like this' during 'this part of the song' and 'like that' during 'that part of the song' if you get what I am trying to say. After even further listening the words actually became easy to understand.. they just kinda faded into existence with each repeated listening. I would suggest (if you are interested) re-listening to the song without the video (studio version) and see if this approach helps. Do not even try to follow the lyrics.. just the instrumental.. and once you have the vocals as an expected instrumental part of the song.. then try to follow along with the lyrics sheet and you will be quite surprised to find that they are easy to understand and remember. Not an easy task.. but is a key method (to me anyway) to fully appreciate the vocals in this style of music.. and opens the door to enjoying a much wider range of metal.
Thanks for reacting to this amazing song. I can only understand how it's not so enjoyable for most people. Since you ask, other songs that would be a little bit more accessible to me would be old stuff such as Humiliative or Soulburn. Otherwise I find Broken Cog and Phantoms to be awesome tracks from their latest album!
Broken Cog is the track where they finally clicked for me after years of trying on and off. Meshuggah still isn't going to be my go to, but I can understand the appeal now.
If you let the vocals stop you from listening to more Meshuggah then you are depriving yourself of hearing the most fascinating groovs and riffs of all time, don't be a snob bro, Meshuggah is severe ear candy just give it time 🖖.
Colour isn't necessarily the goal here, though. There's something about the music here I find strangely calming, I can zone out to it and transport to somewhere else. There's no colour because the aggression in the tone is so pure, there isn't really meant to be depth in the same way you'd hear in other styles. It's kinda similar to the double kick in a way, and you came around on that, so perhaps we'll see a change from you in that regard to if you delve into more harsh vocals that way. I'd recommend checking out 'Triassic' by The Ocean, and also 'A Road Out Of The Flood' by Playgrounded (which only uses clean vocals as well).
I can easily see why someone could look away from Meshuggah because of the vocals. It took me awhile to appreciate the full band after MULTIPLE listens. Please give this band another shot. They are in my top 5 bands or all time and suggest more palatable songs!
re: vocals; I think the way in for most people who are turned off by harsh vocals in general is to stop seeing the vocalist as a singer, and rather as another someone else using the voice to add to the texture and overall timbral quality of the band. And it certainly takes time and exposure as you relearn how to listen to bands with harsh vocals. And FWIW, I can take or leave Jens' vocals 😬
I love how objective you are, that you can criticize it even if you dont prefer the certain type of music. This channel has come so far. remember when it was still maybe ay 20k. Such a great channel
I would like to respectfully disagree on the "harsh vocals make singers loose their individual vocal color" point. Sure, there a singers that do harsh vocals that sound pretty much alike, but the voices of for example Jens Kidman (Meshuggah), Joe Duplantier (Gojira), Ihsahn, Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth), Matt Heafy (Trivium), Robb Flynn (Machine Head) are quite unique in my opinion (and there are many others). It takes a little bit of time to get accustomed to the general character of harsh vocals for sure. But once you're more into it the different compositions of overtones that vary from singer to singer and their way to articulate become more clear.
a fun idea maybe; your comment about losing a person's colour with this vocal style is completely valid, and I think what has made it so easy to attach to for fans is if we take the colour term into analogy of painting. Imagine that these vocalists picked up the paint brush and pushed it through the canvas. Now'a days people play with the idea of not just pushing the brush through, but also bringing attention to the kind of brush, the materials of the canvas, and if any flavour was mixed in, such as blue oil paint versus grey water paints. I think that once we change our temporary viewpoints of rendered art, not only do we come to understand other kinds of arts, but understand the artist without meeting them.
You’re just wrong Doug. And you sound out of touch. Harsh vocals are as varied and nuanced as an orchestra. Jens has an entirely individual harsh vocal, as do almost all harsh vocalists. It’s really a shame you can’t hear that.
"I'm really interested in them, but those vocals are something I'm just not a fan of." Yeah... same. Their rhythms are incredible, and I generally like the sound of djent (which they're often credited with creating), if in smallish doses, but I just... the angry Kermit... man, I didn't even know there _were_ lyrics until you read them.
The rudiment Thomas uses in his feet is called the Herta and it's not only the speed, but it's also the endurance along with playing a straight 4/4 on top of this that makes this drum pattern so unique.
11:59 I think you are wrong, I think that you have to listen to more metal vocalists, everybody has its unique sound, even better, there are so many techniques that you can use and learn, from the harsh vocals (Phil Anselmo, Jame Hetfield, Dave Mustaine, Rob Halford, and many others) back in the 70s, 80s, 90s to the demon voices from Deathcore (Travis Ryan, Alex Terrible, Phil Bozeman, Dickie Allen, Sven de Caluwé). Or the amazing screamers that can also sing like (Corey Taylor, Chester Bennington, Andy Cizek, Matt Heafy, Courtney Laplante) And many more, all of them have their unique voice type, color and way of sing and scream. You just have to search and listen. And don't get me wrong, you are not obliged to like it, if You don't, you don't, there's nothing bad with it. But don't say that they "Lose their color".
@@DM-rc4yu Nah, you can certainly hear differences in harsh vocals after a while. It just takes a while to get used to them. You will also understand what they are saying more easily after a while. It's not the same as pitch/timbre like with cleans as a lot of them don't use the vocal folds to create their harsh vocals, but some of them do have some pitch in there because they use the shape of their mouths and tongue to create different sounds, just like with cleans. Is it the same as clean vocals? Absolutely not and I understand where Doug is coming from especially since he is not used to harsh vocals, but I can guarantee you as someone who got used to listening to music with harsh vocals over 20 years now that there are certainly differences between vocalists and techniques. Clean vocals typically focus on timbre and melodies while for me harsh vocals generally add texture and rhythm/cadence to a track. You can see them as different instruments even though both are created with the voice. Just like rap/hip-hop or throat singing are basically a different instrument (both are also more rhythm based).
Oooo I thin you're wrong about skewing a persons vocal color...you just don't have the pallet for sreaming/growling vocals. Listen to enough of them, and youll realize that every screaming singer has their own color and are IMMEDIATELY recognizable by a trained ear.
Solid, respectful rundown. Their influence to all genres of music can’t be overstated. Even ‘bleeds’ into competitive marching band. Look for a Mesh/Bluecoats percussion etude of the song Beneath. Roger Carter (their percussion caption lead) is the man.
Stengah please! Extreme bass work is not his only skill ... As a band they've got so much going on rhythmically ... Also Periphery! Reptile or Satellites!
I understand you having a problem with the vocals, many does. Some even complain about it. Then my question is: what else should it be? Clean vocals? Rap? Operatic singing? None of these fit.
With the vocals, I don't believe that any other vocal style would be able to fit in. Imagine using a clean sound during a heavy Metallica song. The distortion may sound harsh, but it's the only thing that fits in that context. The same thing with Jens' vocals. There isn't really a different vocal style that can fit Meshuggah's sound and especially the sound of Bleed. After listening to metal for a long time, he has a very recognisable vocal style, it just takes a while to appreciate. It's honestly good to just not try to understand the vocals or lyrics on first listen. Also, yes, they use the octatonic scale a lot in their music. I would highly recommend Stengah or Rational Gaze from their album Nothing (Re-Release). \m/
For a musician Bleed is not the best first encounter with Meshuggah. So many other songs which they portray the IMMENSE capacity of Meshuggah for melodies and riffs.
You dont really loose the color of the voice, you loose the lower tones which is most of its volume and fullness. Making up for that without over straining you voice is a big part of the difficulties of it. Different metal vocalists have still really distinct vocal colors, just compare jens kidmans screaming to for instance mikael akerfeld's.
If you pay attention before and after the pause in the middle of the song, you'll notice that Tomas changed his socks(they're thin anklet socks) LOL In metal like this, the vocalist isn't a vocalist as much as another [organic?] instrument. It is absolutely an acquired taste though, no doubt, it took me a bit for me to find the attractiveness in it.
Jens's barky vocals are part of their Eldritch Robot Space Viking vibe. Tomas is in both meters, playing a 4/4 groove with his hands while his feet match the guitars. Clockworks is good for next, but my personal favorite of theirs is Dancers to a Discordant System.
You should look at harsh vocals as more of a percussive instrument, rather than a melodic one. I think that'll help a lot. Exclusively melodic vocals wouldn't fit well with the rest of the music in extreme metal. The genre depends on this exaggerated drama portrayed by harshness. If you want to follow the words being growled, you must consult the lyrics in text before or during. Extreme metal is a kind of genre that demands more time from the listener if they want to fully absorb everything it has to offer. I'm not saying this is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather not understand what the vocalist is saying the first time I hear it and actually have the vocals fit nicely to the very harsh instruments and heavy somber atmosphere. To me, these vocals are an additional layer of percussion similar to rapping in rap music. If I'm curious enough to want to incorporate the message of the song fully, I'm more than happy to take my time to look the lyrics as I'm listening to the song for a second or third time.
Oh my, you took a nose dive right into the deep end. Sometimes you need to ease it in little by little, I would suggest starting with something a little easier before doing Bleed or Catch 33 start to finish. =) Use some lubrication, you know.
Pretty sure they always play to a click track. May use other backing tracks as well? I have mixed feelings about this kind of regimentation in rock music.
You should checkout Blotted Science, you'll find a lot to love there. There are some points in common though it has no vocals so imagine a more guitar / bass driven composition with the same level of intellectual engagement. There are plenty to choose from and all are great. They call themselves Blotted Science because of their approach. Some of their pieces are serial, they use polyrhythms, and man it's something else.
