Conflict of Interest? 

Don't miss our engaging emails - www.hownot2.com/sign-up "Big brands have a reputation to uphold" - But big brands make egregious errors all the time. "There is a risk of you being biased or being a sell-out if you get paid" - I disclose way too much. I don't know if people are afraid I do "dirty deals" behind closed doors haha. And what does that even mean? EVERY paid athlete says these "Brand Here" things are my favorite "Device/Rope/Shoe" and I can almost guarantee you they don't feel that way. I know some that only take photos and don't use the stuff in real life. It's funny they think I risk being a sell-out when EVERY ad in your climbing magazine is a bunch of people who were paid to have their face associated with a brand 🙂. I liked what @SVD_NL wrote: If you turn "sell what you test" around, you get "test what you sell", and it seems like the most reasonable and ethical thing a store can do. I dont understand how this is a negative in any way. Good Point @kristmadsen "It's a conflict of interest for the manufacturer to test what they are selling." I'm glad they do but it shouldn't be the only testing, that's for sure

I really appreciate everything you and Bobby have done on here. The transparency on this channel is a breath of fresh air.

It'll always be ethical as long as you remain as honest and transparent about the products you're testing, the methods by which those products are tested, and the results of those tests. The fact that you choose not to bring in some products simply because you appreciate and respect the amount of time & investment the creators invested speaks volumes of your character. Keep doing you and we will continue to trust you.

Sea kayaker here. Not a climber. Never will be a climber. RU-vid has become a cesspool for so-called product reviews. Your channel is the gold standard for what everyone should be doing.

I can't think of a single other person in modern day, climbing/outdoors activities, who gives so much valuable information back to the community. And all that you do with the store and putting other peoples safety above profits is incredibly commendable. I've already decided for myself that all my future Climbing purchases will be from your shop. Thanks for putting so much effort into what you do!

This is the most ethical climbing store I know of. Keep up the good work Ryan, we need more people like you in the world.

I think you have always been transparent enough I've always trusted your opinion. That trust wasn't easily earned. You worked hard for it through transparency and legitimate testing. As long as you maintain transparency it's fine.

No issue that I see. Test what ever you want. Sell what you believe in/Will stand behind as quality. You can't be responsible for people using things incorrectly or a product failing

As a developer, having access to tested "off-brand" metal goods would be a significant and welcomed opportunity to make it easier to use the right amount and quality of stainless on my anchors.

I appreciate selling to bolters at a reasonable cost. I have spent ridiculous amounts of money to replace bolts at my local crags. Sometimes I get donations to help, but for over 95% of it, it's my time and my money going into trying to keep these areas safe. I've been buying name brand quick links, but more than 75% of what I replace is hardware store junk. A good supply of stainless steel quicklinks at a good price would be very welcome.

Dude you are probably more ethical than 99% retailers out there. Also you use the gear you sell. That speaks volumes about what you do. Also the effort that you put into trying to make the community better. Stuff that email in their ear.

You want there to be the best gear out there for communities to use. We don't want you to 1) burn out because you need to keep working to break even, 2) go bust because your margins weren't high enough. Most companies go bust because of cash flow. Be brave and charge a little more if you need to. You'll always be out priced by Home Depot if people are going to get that stuff. Be careful, we love you, you're doing great.

I think what people need to realize is that a tremendous number of the products they are buying are produced in China, possibly assembled and checked in the US or Europe (usually not much), and shamelessly marked up to premium prices by brands that realize they are working in a niche sector. Someone buying those same components from the same factories and simply not charging a fortune is not unethical. Probably more ethical than claiming a product is "made in the USA" and charging 4-10x cost.

Former rock climber, now sailing and going up my mast using arborist gear, like the Petzl ZigZag. Keep up the good work.

So my husband and I are both involved in route development. Definitely can attest that it’s mostly paid out of pocket for the majority of developers/re-bolters. There seems to be some misunderstanding around some of the points Ryan is trying to convey. Sorry Ryan @HowNOT2 if I got anything wrong here. 1) He is NOT going to be selling “knock-off” gear. Nor is he going on Amazon, Alibaba or AliExpress and buying a lot of cheap gear to re-sell. Come on now, have a little bit more confidence in Ryan’s integrity. 2) The “no-name” “off-brand” stuff he is referring to is what primarily route developers or re-bolters would be using to equip the anchors. SS rings, chain and quick-links (maillon rapide/mallion). Previously and even now, route developers are purchasing “no-name” quick-links, chain and bolts from hardware or industrial construction stores. (Not that that is the issue, but there is usually also no info on where it came from, how it was tested or how strong it is. All you know is it’s beefy steel) The worst part though is when ZINC PLATED BOLTS are being bought and installed. Ryan wants to make SS hardware more affordable and readily available to route developers and re-bolters. Plus he wants to personally test it. So which bring us to the point of where will Ryan acquire this hardware. If you follow Ryan, then you know he usually spends quite a bit of time consulting and getting feedback before making any big decisions. Here are my own personal observations, having previously done factory inspections abroad. You find a reputable factory that manufactures steel products you want, (quick-links, rings and chain are all a very common commodity). Being reputable, doesn’t mean they necessarily offer the highest or lowest price, but they do have their own internal testing and standards. They can provide data sheets for the raw materials, chemical composition for steel grade, etc. They have their own internal QA and QC. They have the ability to test and break random samples, according to whatever quantity you choose. Heck, you can even send an inspector to the factory to double-check and monitor the testing. Have an outside party do some testing too. If you are concerned with SCC, then you probably should ONLY be using Titanium or HCR SS (per EN 959:2018) Ryan is clearly not doing all this work all on his own. He already said he’s been talking to lots of others. He’s got connections in a lot of places and many people that are willing to help him keep doing the great work that he’s doing. So give him some credit. (or some $$)

Quick takes: Ethical to sell knock-offs? No. To sell off brand versions of commodity items? Heck yes! And I agree, no other retailer TESTS what they sell, if you do test what you sell that can't make anything worse! And publishing every little detail of those tests in the open? Fuck yeah!

Being that YOU are trusting YOUR life with the same products that you are selling to us. Plus you come across to me as a very honest person. I'll trust you over the sellers of several other products.

Crazy that certain companies don't realize the benefits of sponsoring your channel would bring them even though you are non bias to all. You should take on sponsors for real. You deserve that benefit for your hard work! Thanks!

Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for the store, the bibles, the hours of information, the hours of entertainment, and the hours of deeper thought. I wish I were 40 years younger and getting into this, rather than just discovering slack lining and returning to climbing. I'll take a sterile needle any time, Jesus!

You have done so much for the sport of climbing (and the offshoots) all while trying to remain a virgin with regard to outside influence and conflicts of interest. I honestly cannot think of another RU-vidr who has contributed so much. You remind me of the early days of the internet when we created things and gave them away for free before the net became so commercial. Unfortunately you will always get the contrary folks who only see bad when you do good. This is the nature of what the internet has become and for some reason those cretins seem to gravitate to it. Try to ignore their acidic rants and criticisms. And keep up the good work! (As an aside, I work with metals and I wholeheartedly support your search for alternatives to branded stainless products. After all, what costly design has been done on these which warrant the high cost? None of the climbing hardware companies, to my knowledge, have developed new grades of metals. And the stainless they use is purchased commercially and made into their hardware. Anyone can get hold of that grade of steel and sell it without the KN/UIAA rating stamped on it. I would be willing to go 1 step further [though no doubt you have considered this more carefully than I have] and use non-climbing-brand stainless fixed hardware like glue-in bolts. There are a number of steel bolt manufacturers who stamp their hardware such that you can verify and trust them. Dont forget that high strength, rated bolts werent created for climbers. They were created for engineers who required a specific strength and specific characteristics to accomplish a task. Catching a human from a fall or hauling a bag are generally far below what these were designed to bear. An engineer buying from that manufacturer trusts their consistency and I believe you can too - with the testing you do, of course).

Dont forget CE allows self certification. So CE is not a guarantee of anything.

It is just "store brand". I trust your method.

I have climbed on tons of sketchy bolts, rings, fixed draws, etc. in the past. Not everything in the wild is still holding up to UIAA standards. I think it's great to have cheap overbuilt alternatives for these simple hardware things. I already stumbled on rings that might have once been tested but were 70% worn through. I would be way happier to use a tested but non rated quicklink in that case. Go for it and thanks for your detailed thoughts!

Seems like you do an amazing job. You seem super honest enough ;). I love watching what you do for fun. It seems like you’d do this for yourself because of your own curiosity and interests. I’d buy anything from you because you seem super legit enough ;)

Thank you! You hit the nail on the head “Don’t trust you!” I mean that in the best way possible. You share your thoughts and opinions. Not what you think others thoughts should be. If people are blindly trusting you, I think they missed the point.

Thank for everything that you provide for the climbing community. The test you do must cost a fortune and the amount information you have provided is appreciated.

I'm glad you do what you do. I feel better knowing there is someone out there pushing gear to its limits. It's comforting...

The only source for gear testing I trust. You guys are a gift to the climbing community! Keep it up!

You and Bobby have added so much value, information, and quelled concerns about so many things. Keep doing what you’re doing. If you test something and put a stamp of approval on it and have enough confidence to sell it in your store, I’d trust it. Thanks for all of your guys work.

I personally enjoy that you are making testing and data more interesting to look at. I probably wouldn’t spend as much time as I spend watching your videos, looking at the same info on a spreadsheet. Im trying to get back into climbing after a long hiatus and unrelated injury, and your videos are helping me decide what gear I should consider getting. Thanks for all you do!

The issue I have with the concept of testing 'off-brand' products and then selling as good stuff is the sample size vs. the consistency of manufacture. If I had reasonable confidence that every part was the same the approach would be valid enough I'm sure. But that's part of the issue with knockoffs of any product. That said, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of products out there that are super good enough. But I'm not sure that's something someone should be thinking about when they are in the middle of taking a whipper... Edit: But that said... if you got the gear directly from the manufacturer and had some control over the outcome and tested a statistically meaningful sample of each batch I think you might be able to build some confidence in the product and the process?

Where a product is made isn't directly correlated to its quality. That is a function of the design specifications and the quality control standards followed during manufacture. I think it is a noble effort to test these knock unbranded products and provide reliable and repeatable data on how they perform. However, I don't know if I would officially endorse such products. I think providing the data to the user and allowing them to decide if it is "super good enough" for their applications is about as far as I would go.

I have absolutely no problem with you selling equipment, to the contrary I support the idea. I hope I speak for the community when I say that and when I say I really appreciate the blood, sweat and tears you and Bobby have put in over the years. I believe God knows your intentions and will repay you for the work you've done but until then, get that money brother at least enough to cover your costs!

You definitely have taught me to look more closely and confidently at my gear. I know what I'm looking for and why, and I'm so much more informed about just how freaked out I should get about this carabiner getting slightly cross loaded or those ropes rubbing together. There are so many possible configurations and interactions between systems in production arboriculture, and your channel has helped my brain break all that down by giving clear examples of potential failures. Much appreciated dude and keep up the good work!

I really like how you are transparent and how you communicate information. Unfortunally I live in Brazil and shipping here is complicated, takes a long time and isn't cheap, otherwise I would be buying all my stuff from your store.

Sometimes, what you are buying is not the product. It can also be the assurances that come with being from the brand. Consistency, services, liability, and maybe a lot more depending on the brand. You definitely could find a lot of bolts, quick links, etc from the construction industry and be plenty safe. Unless you want to be the one that offers those assurances, stay away from brands you don't have confidence in.

You and this channel has done so much for my climbing, wouldn’t have been out there without you. Keep doing you Ryan love these videos

Ryan, I am so on-board with what you say and do; its almost like we are drinking the same coolaid. Keep up with the amazing work!

Haters will always find something to hate, but your loyal follower base remains unshaken! We support and rally for you. 🙌🌻

You are super good enough! There is no issues here. Testing things and selling them is what we want, thats called taking the product line and customers seriously.

Thanks Ryan, you are a legend for what you are doing. I look forward to watching your vids for years to come.

Dude. I love the content. I’m actually two weeks away from buying a house in a MAJOR mountain area with tons of rocks. And I’ve already found a local climbing gym to help me train and get in the right shape and make the friends so I can go out and safely try these routes. I never wanted to climb a rock until I watched free solo. Then I found your channel. That’s when I learned it takes time, energy, effort, and money to do this sport. Keep doing what you’re doing. I’ll have my gear bought in the next few months.

Love these Monday update videos! Keep it up Ryan 👍

I came to the channel for information, but I stay for the comedy. 😂 You guys are all absolutely nuts, especially Ryan, but I love it. 💙

Your content is always great and on point, I don't think I've ever seen anything that I thought was weakly or half assed done. Keep on keeping on.

You are very ethical, informative, and put things in a way where everyone can understand and just goofy enough for someone like me to remember and retain information.

Love this type of video Ryan, especially when you go off on random rants!😊

Exactly! At least you show us actual testing. Who knows if they even tested something or even if they actually did.

I don't climb, however I do use ropes and attaching equipment as part of the Fall Arrest equipment that I use when working at heights. I find your videos extremely informative regarding hardware that I encounter while working and can keep an eye out for suspect equipment that may be on site from other contractors. For this I am extremely grateful.

What you have done over the years is awesome. Keep doing what you do!

So appreciative of everything you are doing!!! Including offering a retail spot for me to purchase gear. Bravo bravo bravo. My loved ones don't realize that you are helping me make safer, life preserving choices in the endeavors that I love to do. Thanks.

I must admit that your channel really helped me conquer some fear. I was really afraid of lead climbing and falling. But when I started my course last year I stumbled across this channel. Seeing your tests on gear really helped me to trust the gear I use seeing the safety factors. Thanks for that!

Wow thanks for the candor! Really appreciate what you do!

This was gold. I appreciated the honesty.

I'm not a climber. I'm a 35 year firefighter that teaches Tech Rescue. What I can tell you is that in general, firefighters a generally not the sharpest tools in the shed. I can't tell how many arguments/discussions I have had re: gear/use. Your channel, which I recumbent to every student, educates. I think this was one of your best videos. Thanks.

I found this channel while learning knots to deal with some dead white pines on my property. I am so glad that you're doing this. I'm not a climber but I'm loving the tree work, and may climb one day. But for right now I like felling and groundie. It is insane how many off brand liars there are on Amazon. Cramming terms into the title of the item, without backing anything up. I really wish there was better accountability out there. People like you seem to be more and more rare as the days go on.

Metal is metal for the most part but I personally would only sell products that have some sort of certification or minimum breaking strength etc stated by the manufacturer (if MBS then need to add a suitable FOS) for liability purposes. In the off chance somebody got injured or died from gear you sold and then you were sued you need to be able to prove you did your due diligence to ensure the product was safe to use for climbing. In this video you gave examples of larger companies selling products that have failed but they have engineering documents, material certs and some sort of testing data to back up that they did their due diligence so if/when a lawsuit happens the judge either sides with them or insurance covers the costs (assuming no gross negligence etc). These extra documents, testing etc is what makes these products more expensive especially being in a niche industry and therefore smaller batches and higher markups. Unfortunately doing your own tests as you do probably increases your chance of a lawsuit because most of the people buying from you know you are doing these tests yourself and that these products aren't certified for climbing (unless you cert yourself). Sadly these people probably wouldn't think of suing if they bought it from a different climbing store because they would likely have assumed it was a climbing safe product. Even sadder some of these same people would probably use poorer quality hardware not intended for this use to save a few bucks, which I know is what you are trying to help prevent. At a minimum if bringing in your own uncertified hardware I would want documentation from supplier on material certs and a drawing with dimensional tolerances etc so you have enough information to do some calculations to determine a theoretical MBS (if the supplier won't provide you with one) and then have a testing procedure for each batch to ensure they meet/exceed that MBS. Then you at least have an argument to prove you did your due diligence although it will obviously be more difficult and costly then passing the liability onto supplier/manufacturer. In short I wouldn't call this a conflict of interest (we know you are reputable) but I would warn against the extra risks you may be bringing on by doing so.

Information is always more valuable than rating. I would comfortably climb on unrated, non-locking novelty carabiners from Alibaba if I had to because I know how to make them redundant many times over.

Thanks Ryan. You and Bobby are doing it great. It is important for all the climbing/outdoors community.

As for testing rated stuff you sell-thats a good thing.

You're great. People like you keep the community alive and healthy.

Keep doing what you're doing Ryan, information is King as they say, Super Good Enough works

Very insightful video! All of your hard work is appreciated

I love your videos and plan on buying from your store when I need something you carry.

As a Fellow Painter 👨‍🎨 I really appreciate what you do! ❤

@Ryan - I’d buy the everloving hell out of off brand SS bolting gear. Ship to Canada soon pls! Everything not plugged into the rock is in the ‘consumable’ category. Can be replaced. When in doubt - just go thicker (quick links, chain etc etc).

i feel dumb when i watch some of your videos because I don't comprehend them very well (and from the comments I can tell you've done a good job). But this made sense! Thank you so much for helping people develop routes. And helping me learn how to climb outdoors. I love it.

A certain brand of aerial boom lifts that go up 60+ feet have an issue. If they aren't maintained properly as per the manufacturers direction, there is a chance a wheel falls off, which can cause a tipover. There's no warning for this happening, and it has happened multiple times and people have died. I'm bound by confidentiality to not disclose which company, but they're not recalling them. It's not just climbing. It's large companies wanting profits over safety. I'd trust my belayer with my life over any faceless brand or regulatory body.

This is so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌

Love the work you are doing. Keep it up!

I LOVE this guy!!!

Hi, developer here and also someone whose family has done 10+years of sourcing overseas (importing). So "standards" are like the "funnel" a good has to go through to be this or that. Certifications are proof and verification it meets those standards. During which, manufacturers should be doing QA (Quality Assurance, which is checking stuff during production) and QC (Quality Control, which is checking stuff after production) to make sure a good product makes it to the end user. *Here's an illustration: A restaurant makes a big pot of chili. "Standards" are all the right ingredients that get put into a chili. "Certification" is like the head chef tasting it and saying it can be served. However, after a few bowls have gone out, a rat craps into the chili. Now, if the restaurant did proper QA, they would have prevented a rat from even being in the kitchen. If they did some sort of QC, a waiter might notice, "Hey, that doesn't look like a black bean" before putting it on the customer's table.---So, yeah, even after following standards and certifications, manufacturers still need to abide with due diligence. This is of course an oversimplification.

I have to say that this is probably the best "rant" video I have ever watched. To me your credibility really shines through. Also a mighty fine way to promote your store. I would say that anyone who would have a problem with what and how you do things after watching this is not someone you want as a customer anyway. I'm not (really) a climber (we started bouldering just before lockdowns and haven't got back to it for a variety of reasons) but your information is useful & educational. I do have a safety rope for when I work on the roof, and I use some climbing hardware for kayak safety gear. I also have two young grandsons who love to climb everything (e.g. sofa, chest of drawers) right now, so hope to build and extend a climbing wall as they grow. Thanks so much for all the information & entertainment. I will be supporting your store when and if at all possible. Oh, and "you'd get into the car to drive to the funeral" is one for the ages!

I really appreciate that you're putting this info on the internet. I feel like safety gear knowledge is often treated like an insider secret. So both good and bad advice are passed down from person to person and it's hard to tell what information is real and what is just repeating what has been done forever but isn't safe. Or hard to get any information at all if you're not part of the club.

Great work Ryan and team.

I think the biggest concern is that non-name brand offerings are much more likely to change in quality/function without undergoing a visual or name change. Your mileage may vary is the most important thing that absolutely must be clear to anyone watching reviews of dodgy products. While one day it may be super good enough, it might be super a problem the next.

The core of your value add IMO is you - your values and the content you make of breaking gear. That's what set you apart from other folks in the space. The reason, I buy from you is because I trust you and your a good guy. The, "brand name" vortex is just a distraction.

The big thing ethically to me is how do you know your testing is comprehensive? Like a rope is probably quite easy, break it in loads of ways, check it doesn’t slip etc and you’ll have a good idea of whether it’s a good product. What about an off-brand grigri though? You can test it all the ways you want but (I imagine you’ve seen Hard Not Easy testing this stuff) what if holding it in a particular way makes it utterly useless and dangerous? Can you guarantee you’d pick up on it? Maybe you and anyone else you test with just don’t use it in that manner and so it doesn’t even occur to you. It’s not totally unreasonable with a more complex device like that to think there is some major design flaw in a very small component that you wouldn’t think of. Big name brands have (hopefully) been refining their products for decades now and have analysed every accident that’s ever been documented to look for improvement. Any newish no name brand won’t have.

You're doing a great service ... keep up the excellent work 😀👍

I think youre a legend and i get your thinking and attitude. Keep it up bro

I really appreciate what you are doing

Okay, fine, I will buy a hat, goddamn. (seriously though love your shop)

19:35 That debacle is why I no longer buy Black Diamond anything. That is a company which is demonstrably willing to let its faulty gear kill you rather than admit that it's defective.

It's like buying an off-brand carbon fork for your road bike then bombing a hill at 45 MPH. Do you have confidence this fork will withstand the impacts of bumps on this descent? If you have any question in your mind, it's not worth the cost savings. Same with climbing gear or an old-ish climbing rope. Is $250 worth your peace of mind?

Transparency is key , which you do “ super good enough “ I am definitely a brand person with climbing but yesterday bought some cord off the roll and didn’t think about brand, I guess I just trusted the shop as the brand, that pretty much what you are saying, YOU are the Brand.

Keep up the good work. Your videos are interesting, fun, informative and useful. Don't stop, and please take sponsors if available but just advise people.

Great video, your videos have helped me out a lot.

Nice job....information is 💯🔥💯

Thanks. This is very educational.

always a great vid!

Your adage about safe sex promotion is enlightened. My hammer dealer was proactive with her clients. She had boxes of needles, heating kits, swabs, haemo cream. Wonderful people help one another.

Brands like Petzl or Edelrid have extensive quality control systems to ensure their products are consistent and reliable. Raw materials such as metals are checked to ensure that they are of the right quality; products are routinely tested to failure to detect faulty batches; employees are suitably qualified, trained and have oversight. Design is extensive and constantly being improved, failures are documented and designs are amended and there is extensive guidance available on how the products should be used under different circumstances. With offbrand products none of this happens, it's entirely up to luck the quality of materials they use and the individual made it. There is little to no guidance for use. You are playing Russian roulette with your life to save $100. One item may work initially and then fatigue through poor design or materials, the next may fail immediately.

Do what you can to get high-quality hardware that will last longer at the craig for a fair price. Share links to break test videos on the product pages and let people decide for themselves. Your transparency and honesty shines bright Ryan!

Awsome channel keep doing what you started :) And try not to get sucked into the preformence seeking franzy of big channels :)

so nice to see someone have such a pragmatic approach to hard wear ratings. I do quite a lot of work in theatrical sets, and we just build things to the standard of "you would really have to mess-up to be able to break this". eg the set piece is only 60kg but we use 2t swl shackles ect. no need to look at rating ect, we just know that it will work as there is a massive overspec in strength. as for unbranded things, we have bought higher quality unbranded parts from alibaba than the shockingly expensive/jank branded ones found locally.

Ryan is on his evil, bond-villain monologue arc and I'm so here for it.

As an everyday person, i always research my products. I do rock climb, but 5 days a week i work on cell phone towers. Ryan! I love all the work you and bobby do (plus everyone behind the scene) to make sure we understand what we’re buying or potentially buying. There is so much to unpack in this video its hard to put into a comment. I will say, if you test and its super good enough and you do multiple tests on different batches and they are all in a good median of a good MBS to be safe, put it on the store i will buy it because i trust YOU and your team because i can actually see the testing done on the product!

I love the transparency. I don't think theres any issues with testing the gear you sell, you just need to make sure the testing is representative, and be transparent about the fact these tests do not substitute a safety rating. I do think it's unethical to sell copyright/patent infringing products, or products that don't live up to their actual safety rating by a large margin. You also need to watch out that there isn't a lot of batch variation on "sketchy" gear, and you just happened to test a good production run. But i trust you know how to inspect it all and do some continuous QA. If you turn "sell what you test" around, you get "test what you sell", and it seems like the most reasonable and ethical thing a store can do. I dont understand how this is a negative in any way. Edit: i wrote this after a couple minutes of watching, and you adressed everything a lot better than i did. Nice job!

I have, and never will, climb, but i use climbing gear and ropes to move heavy equipment and lumber and other odd jobs. I abuse the crap out of it. I LOVE YOU RYAN. I think you have given me more information than any other source and make my shanagans safer. I plan to shop your store to help any little bit i can

The potential problem I have with cheap non-brand gear is this; you test one batch, it's good, you sell it. What about the next batch? How do you know they didn't fuck up the metallurgy between the two? Most name brands proof test every piece of gear, as far as I know? (I can find proof marks on all of my carabiners, and I hope they'd do it with soft goods too?) They at least have trained quality control people to do consistent testing. I highly doubt ali baba manufacturers are doing that.