They don't fight anyone stronger than their fleet can afford they just assume them to be Christian and move along, catholicisation was a just an excuse to placate ppl off colonisation's atrocities, either church or corporatism (in this case east india company) their 'policies' were just cope for stealing from others what they didn't have, spice in itself was just masquerade
@@pkgpk5564 You do know that Christianity came to India and Flourished In kerala in 1st century itself. Your idea of India as Just a hindu country is appalling.
🤣imagine if the king of Portugal told him we are going back to the Christian king you found in India 😂🥲 I have respect for Portugese exploring Shii but they are funny they even thought our Ethiopian chritsian king was Preston John 😂but they helped defeated musilms ottomans Somalis arebia muskutteers at Battle of Wayna Daga which important part of Ethiopia history
@@ankithooda1536 That is true that there was a European racial theory that some of the darker races including some Indians were descendants of ham. This later developed into the theory of Hamites which was used to explain why the "Negriod" race did not construct ruins in Africa and other colonized areas (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamites). Disgusting. However, What does this theory have to do with them believing that this specific kingdom of Indians were Christians? In the biblical flood myth, Noah and his family were the only humans to survive the flood. All of humanity was, supposedly, descendants of Noah, but not all of humanity was Christian. They were aware that pagans existed after all they are in the bible. Why is the Son of Ham theory relevant here?
@@jknott1509 But it certainly doesn't sound like this is a church. He mentions "saints" with many arms. Sounds like they just wanted to believe they were Christians.
You clearly are speaking of the Church rather than Christianity. You are parroting popular dogma and fears and seemingly understand nothing of the underlying mysteries. I assure you the Hindu mysteries and the Christian are the same, as they both have the same root, namely Abraham. Don't believe it? Do the research, starting with the ancient rabbis.
@@Nutty151 Actually, Da Gama kidnapped like 15 people after negotiations broke down, and left. Most of his men starved or died of scurvy because he left India during the wrong season and couldn't catch any wind.
There were Christians in India when he arrived in India but the people he actually saw were not Christian they were indeed Hindu and the king of Calicut was no way Christian he was Hindu...
@@bapo224 yeah definitely and the various saint in the so called Christian church were another demigods of Hinduism it is very common in south indian architecture to carve out demigods on walls and he also mentioned the white powder which they apply on their forehead which the Christians in India never do only the South Indian Hindus have this tradition
"Not to return to Portugal until he had discovered the king of the Christians, on pain of having his head cut off". Well, that explains why he insisted in them being "Christians".
My housemate flirted with some mormon missionaries the first time they came around and now they won't stop coming around asking for him. This is how I shall greet them next time.
Later when the Portuguese met the actual Christians living in Southern India Portuguese - "Praise the Lord! Let us celebrate together" St Thomas Christians - "Yes, let us praise the Lord indeed" Portuguese - "Ain't the Pope in Rome awesome?" St Thomas Christians - "Who?" Portuguese pointing fingers, wide eyed in horror - "INFIDELS!!!"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoma_of_Villarvattom They knew who the pope was, Pope eugene IV sent a letter to the king of Villarvattom about the council of florence.
@@Sharcos1498 lol.. yeah, I knew they were aware of the Pope in Rome. Just being silly. It took a few years before relations between the Portuguese and Nasranis deteriorated
@@aayushtiwari4357 Of course. My joke is that the Dutch sailor confused their statues of Lord Ganesha with scenes from the old testament depicting men with the heads of elephants and lions.
“So, are you Muslim or Christian”? “We’re Hindu. Hinduism is a diverse system of thought marked by a range of philosophies and shared concepts, rituals, cosmological systems, pilgrimage sites and shared textual sources” “Right… So, are you Muslim or Christian”? “…”
They would not say , we are hindus. They would say their cast (Jatthi) name . That is what denotes them. According to philosophy, they say their specific. E.g.Vaishnava, smartha, theravada,etc or locals say their kuladevata. ..like "followers of particular deity"
@@vishnuvardhan3047 bs they would say to a foreigner that theybare 'Arya' meaning a Indian of noble origins. Throught the history high society people were called Arya.
@@gersakkun your point is well taken, but it doesn’t change the fact I had a similar experience in India. Just a lightweight self deprecating observation
Tall bronze mast with a bird is the Garuda Stamba. The bird is an Eagle. This is clearly a Vishnu Temple. The people with the thread across their body are Bhrahmins.
Its my state kerala... And this quote of calling our women ugly is well known as it was the opening statement of the famous movie Urumi about vascos attrocities in calicut...
I heard there was a christian tale in kerala, people used to call the Flamboyant(Poinciana) tree as the Tree of the Cross, as they atributed the red color of its flowers to Jesus blood, who drifted to its leaves.
@Merit Ocrassie Well, he did return to Callicut and proceed to bomb the shit out of the place and impose his will on the Indian coast through violence and oppression. But I really don't think that's the kind of "greatness that all men seek."
The Portuguese entry into India is utterly fascinating also because of how early they arrived there and were the last ones to leave. Heck, the Portuguese arrived and were already running Goa for over 2 decades before the Mughuls had even invaded India. By the time Akbar the Great was ruling India, the Portuguese had become a mainstay in the region and the Portuguese were even present at his court. Ever thought a fleet of Ottoman ships would be waging a war in the Arabian Sea off the coast of Gujarat? Yup, that's cos they were there to fight the Portuguese after the Sultan of Gujarat asked for their assistance. Da Gama was even buried in India for years before his remains were sent back to Portugal. And Da Gama's son, Christobal, would go on to fight and die on a Crusade in Africa, commanding a battalion of Portuguese soldiers fighting on the side of the Ethiopian Christian King and his Army - his actions pretty much helped ensure that the Ethiopian Christian kingdom would remain in existence as it would have pretty much been wiped out by their Islamic neighbors otherwise, who had invaded it
@@haideraliibnakhlaq8823 this is because the Portuguese never really made any inroads into mainland India, choosing rather multiple port cities, which they controlled. This is also probably the reason why the Mughuls didn't think the English were much of a threat - just a bunch of traders on the periphery. The Mughuls had bigger threats across the subcontinent.
Not too weird for them. In the middle ages, some newly converted Christians in Europe were carving or painting the Holy Trinity as a "three headed one body figure" and you can still see some of them around in the some old old churches in mainland Europe. Obviously, the higher ups in the Church were not too happy with this description as it also went against basic Christian theology. So you can see why the Portuguese would have just seen multi-headed and multi armed drawings as just a different artistic style and not thought too much about it
White earth = Vibhuti(ash) Thread from shoulder =janivar (wore by hindu priests) As an Indian I'm really amused by his description and parallels that he draws with his own culture .
You have missed out on the best parts of the tale. The encounters on the East African Coast, the meeting with the Gujrati pilot in Mombasa and the Radhanite Jew that helped the Portuguese sail back. I think you should make videos on these parts of the tale.
@@Strawhalo or because he's reading a direct source and that source doesn't mention anything about an African. Not everything is racist and you don't have to make assumptions without doing any research.
Weak mindedness, jealousy amongst indians, superstitious beliefs. Did you know that the most sophisticated technology in India is found in Indus Valley in 2000 BCE? Since that ancient time India has not advanced much. Meanwhile Europe is not as old as India but in a matter of 400 years they have far exceeded Indian culture in accomplishments.
If you look at Cathedrals build in the Gothic style in medieval Europe, with the thousands of statuettes of saints on the outside and inside, it makes perfect sense they would think they are looking at an Indian version of a Gothic church
@@nonomnismoriar9051 I doubt he truly thought they were Christians. I think he simply lied and constructed this narrative so the Portugese king wouldn't freak the fuck out lol
It would take only a few hours to figure it out ? You mean with Google on your cell phone? I wonder how you would manage to not do the same confusion, not knowing the land, the language, etc.. Not knowing half of the planet actually. Now it seems easy...
After this Vasco da Gama became (obviously) rich and powerful but also his brother, Pedro da Gama, became the foremost shipbuilder in Portugal for a time, they bought a lot of land and to be fair, that real estate kept the family very wealthy for centuries
I learnt in school that Gama arrived at Kozhikode and the following events that sparked years of political turmoil. But, the perspective of a sailor aboard the ship was refreshing.
@@luxinvictus9018 See, I think differently. The history taught in school often clean, like they say the Brits came to India looking for spices, and they happened to establish capital in Calcutta. Spice trade was along the western coast. In reality, India was a major producer of opium in the Bengal Bihar Orissa region, this opium was smuggled into China. The EICs Robert Clive and Warren Hastings became very rich and accumulated a great personal wealth from this drug trade. We are not taught that, we are taught to believe that Brits got rich off of tea and pepper. There was a seedy history of filth that people forget when it comes to colonialism from slave trade to drug smuggling. Also they don't give a clear picture, they say India as if it existed all along. When infact there were empires that united indian states but they were shortlived. They forget about the collaborative efforts of the native kings and paint them as innocent by standers. They downplay the participation of other organisations in Independence movement other than the ones that are Congress or Congress allied.
I'm so glad that my Gaud Saraswat Brahmin ancestors converted to Christianity ❤ The Portuguese abolished sati, gender inequality, caste discrimination, gaumutra drinking and other social evils.
There were Christians in India way before Missionaries got there though. They are the St Thomas Christians since 52 AD. Actual later missionaries were shocked and I mean shocked when they met them.
It's not technically right. St Thomas never came to India and the so called st. Thomas Christian at that time were foreginers living in India whom came as traders and settled here. The modern Christians in Kerala are not the descendants of those christians, like they claim. It's a false assertion, present christians are converts from local people.
There was a Christian kingdom that was located in the South of India, called as Villaravattom, which is the only Christian kingdom in the entire history of Indian subcontinent. Europeans had heard about it and even taught that he was the emperor of entire India, but the dynasty was just a ruler of small kingdom located somewhere in the corner of the subcontinent. One of the reasons why Gama came to India was to find that Indian Christian dynasty. But by the time he had arrived, Villaravattom dynasty ended due to the last king having no male heir.
@@jdlc903 No it collapsed, due to its last king having no male heir. Technically, it was a vassal state of a neighbouring kingdom, so when it's last king died of old age, neighbouring kingdom just took direct control of the area they indirectly controlled.
The story is that the merchants of this kingdom traveled far to Europe to trade. It was only then that the merchants gave a word that there was a huge Christian country in India. Only then, Europeans sent expedition in Search of that Indian Kingdom and Vascodagama arrived to Kolkata. The intention was to go to Christian kingdom on India and greet those people because , after the Roman suppression of Christians (after crucifixion of Christ), Christians fled to India and stayed there. After the Romans fell down from power, Christians from India went back to Syria and Israel and from there they started to spread Christianity.
@@vishnuvardhan3047 U r wrong here, Vasco da Gama didn't went to Kolkata he went to Calicut, which is present day Kozhikode, Kerala. What you said about Syrian Christians are also wrong, Syrian Christians were in India since the beginning of Christianity, even long before the advent of Christianity in Roman Empire.
The Roman Empire was very familiar with India and conducted extensive trade with the kingdoms there. There have been great hoards of Roman silver coins found in India. However, after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the Dark Ages, Muslims blocking off access to the routes to the East, and over a 1000 years passing, the Portuguese hadn't a clue.
No. They knew of it as all Medieval Europeans did. This is attested. Probably didn't really know anything about it though but that's typical of any distance place.
@@julianhermanubis6800 It was probably because with the fall of the Roman empire, the knowledge about the Indian Monsoon winds that made the long voyage possible, was lost. Vasvo De Gama barely made it with luck, most of his crew had died by the time he reached the shores.
They did trade with India though there's commentary by an elder in the Senate mentioned in Dr Tharoor s speech at Oxford that they where concerned of the amount of gold that got sent to india for textiles because roman women loved them. They are quoted as being as light as woven air
@@Daredevil311-g9l I know that quote from the Roman writer (although I forget which one at the moment, but maybe it was Seneca). Yes, the upper-class Romans had an appetite for luxury goods, and India either produced them or was a conduit for goods from further east in Asia. Despite the cranky Roman writer's complaints, I think the trade was generally beneficial for both Rome and India, or it wouldn't have continued for so long. It's a shame this ended.
Tbf every Christian group adapted their traditional cultural iconography to their depictions of the tales of the faith. I mean you can't tell the difference between Jesus and the pagan gods of greece and rome for hundreds of years. Jesus looked essentially like a buddhavista in east asia. My favorite is wizard jesus tho with the magic wand casting spells
There was a Jewish principality in Kerala , India also by Joseph Rabban . We Christians call ourselves saint Thomas Christians and until Portuguese incidents every Christians here lived like Jews .
Ancient Christians existed in Kerala but they weren’t the people Gama is describing (the King and places/peoples he described were Hindu, specifically the Kingdom of Kozhikode). The Syrian Christians also called Nasrani or St. Thomas Christians had lived in Kerala, India for centuries before the Portuguese arrived. According to tradition they are the descendants of the converts of St. Thomas the Apostle, Syrian Merchants, and later local converts. They were a powerful minority due to the fact that Syrian Merchant magnates such as Knai Thoma (4th-8th century) and Sabrisho (9th Century) who arrived to the port cities of Kodungallur and Kollam respectively, received copper plate grants of socio-economic and religious rights (one of these plate-sets is still extant today). The Nasrani were major spice traders and also held positions such as ministers, tax collectors, and warriors in the Hindu Kingdoms they inhabited such as the Kingdom of Kochi, the Kingdom of Kodungallur, the Kingdom of Vadakkumkur/Thekkumkur, etc. They are in fact one of the oldest Christian communities still in existence today. Colonial officials such as Antonio De Gouvea (1602), Francis Ros (1604), Diogo Do Couto (1611), and many others would write heavily about them.
Warriors? Lol, no. Religious and caste segregation has always been a thing in India. While xtians definitely had influence due to trade, they were not warriors. Because most hindu soldier castes would have refused to serve under them. The only proper non hindu kingdom in Kerala were the Arakkals who were served by the mappilas. Christians never had that sort of population.
@@multiversetraveller3118 That’s not true, there are records from the Portuguese era that note of Nasrani’s serving as soldiers under the Hindu Kingdoms. Not only that, Syrian Christians have the surname Panicker which is shared with the Nairs. The surname was only given to warrior families who served, taught, and propagated the Kalari, essentially the historic martial arts institute of Kerala which created warriors.
@@multiversetraveller3118 What you don't know is Syrian Christians were considered just below Brahmins.They were equivalent to Nairs(Nairs are the Kerala equivalent of Kshatriyas in Northern India). Syrian Christians are not given and will never be given reservation owing to this.
Another great video guys! Some Notes: There were definitely Christians in India at the time, and they formed a sizeable minority in the general region where da Gama first arrived. They just didn't rule any empire, and they certainly weren't everywhere in Calicut (or Kozhikode as it is now called), which was ruled by a Hindu kingdom at the time, with a largely Muslim trading class. That description of a 'church' sounds more like a temple than anything else lol. It's possibly the Thali Temple, an ancient and significant temple in that city. The 'Melon' sounds like a Jackfruit. Finally, any Religion can be Christianity if you have to worry about your head being cut off if it isn't
No, Christians were extremely low in numbers. Only Syrian Christians existed that time and in numbers comparable to Parsees. That would make a miniscule minority. While the other Christians in Kerala now were converted only recently during the time of British colonization.
@@asmirann3636 actually no, the british were protestants and if they even converted they wouldn't be catholic as the british hates Catholicism, southern kerala already had a sizeable minority of Christians but northern kerala didn't have this. Christians in Kerala can be called Syrian or latin the Syrian Christians are the oldest while the Latin Catholics are the people who were mainly converted by the portugese
Yes... But they were also under the impression that Hindus were really misguided Christians... They only realized that the Hindus were not in fact Christians when the came across and interacted with real Saints Thomas' Christians
Also.. kindly mention the cold blooded atrocities committed by" the great " Vasco da Gama and his successors in Calicut while establishing their so called "Cordial relationships".
@@luxinvictus9018 invading other lands in the name of Jesus by European Christian countries,calling the natives of those places backward and calling there religions fake then trying to force them into Christianity or brainwashing their kids to hate their own native faiths even numerous rapes by pastors which is still rampant wasn't some fringe part of Christianity of that time rather it was the norm.
@@luxinvictus9018 wherever these Christian from Europe went they were brutal to the ppl there be it in india or USA or Canada or even in Europe where jews were seen as enemies of Christianity and often targeted and tortured unlike sati which was in reaction to the native locals of india to crimes carried out by Islamic outsiders.
@@rajkishorebehera7489 wow stop lying dude. Sati is a Hindu practice dating before even Muslim invasions occurred. It is mentioned in epics ! Dont tell me mahabharata was written by Muslims too ! Do you think this is whatsapp group with fellow Hindu nationalists where you can get away making bs up ?
@@bogdanbogdanoff5164 saying st thomas is a myth is like saying columbus is a myth. How can someone be a myth when the community that he supposedly started still exist to this day?
The truth is that before the advent of modern technologies and firearms, there was nothing Europeans could have offered to Indians. India had everything one needs and some more to export. Before industrial revolution Indian trade with the world was pretty much one way .
@Pojka Southern Hemisphere is full of most metal . The world relied on Afghanistan for copper production because of its tin mines, since antiquity. Fur was never in demand in hot country and India and south Asia leads the world in leather production even to this day. And Arabic horses from middle east had been used for wars and riding in Europe also from the times of antiquity since European horses were too large and fat and were only good for ploughing the fields. As far as textile is concerned , subcontinent of India has been the biggest exporter of of cotton and linen since civilisation began. There are ancient Roman records where Roman officials were worried about Roman women taste for Indian linen. It was so bad that they were concerned for Rome running out of gold reserve because so much of it was shipped to India in exchange for textile. So I guess you got a point there for precious metals. Even to this day one quarter of all the gold in the world is owned by Indian housewives.
Recently watched a lecture by Sanjay Subrahmanyam on Vasco da Gama. Vasco's Jewish translator, Gaspar da India, seemed to provide him some weird information, such as how the port-kingdoms east of Calicut were all Christian (including Bengal, Ceylon, Melaka, Sumatra, and Cambodia).
@@joer9156 - No. There were also Jews but there were many Christians since Antiquity. Remember that Rome's almost only foreign venture was to trade with India, via Egypt and that brought some Roman art influences and certainly Christianity (Syriac branch).
@@joaoribeiro5938 - St. Thomas is legendary AFAIK but there was in any case some expansion of Christianity to India in Roman times, that we can agree to.
To be fair the Gospel was brought to India before it reached Europe by Saint Thomas one of the twelve disciples. And unlike other disciples who at first recieved a hostile reception he was warmly welcomed and was allowed to establish a church. If through research is done the Church in India might have been the earliest Church in the world that survives as it did without much changes since there were no schisms as far as I know.
The Orthodox Christian Church is original unchanged Christian Church of the time of Christ. The oldest Christian Church is the Orthodox Christian Patriarchate of Jerusalem established first by Christ then St James the brother of the Lord in 33 A. D. St Thomas evangelized The areas of Western India, parts of Syria and Iraq in 52 A.D.
Lol, it's one of those petty myths people believe. St Thomas never came to India, it's a story you can only find in Kerala and TN and no where else. Even the Catholic church don't agree with the story, the official accepted version is that he went to Iran not India.
@@rbeck3200tb40 False, history lol. St Thomas never came to India instead he went to Iran. Ask any theologian or historian outside Kerala. It's a myth limited to parts of Kerala and TN.
@@samuelroot6045 "even the catholic church dont agree" ??? well so what ? The catholics know nothing about Christianity especially about Christian history. The cathoilcs are a heretical group in italy that was anathemized from Christianity in 1054 AD .The cathoilcs didnt even exist until 1054 AD and have nothing to do with evangelizing India in the 1st century .The Orthodox Christian Church and its saints evangelized this area of the world in the 1st century. This is historical fact.
Actually we were Christians long before Portuguese arrived in Kerala, India. At that time, we Christians are Actually against all foreign rules and believes in our country. Our forefathers are converted to Christians by st Thomas himself.( St Thomas came here in 52AD, also he was killed in Thamilnadu, later his remains are shifted) There are old texts of Aramaic in scrolls and walls , well preserved here.
India is very diverse tho. Keralites are dravidians and look quite different compared to North Indians or East/Western Indians. I'm Indian too and as pale as some of my caucasian friends 🤷🏻♀️
Christianity arrived in India at a very early time, brought to India by the Apostle Thomas who is believed to have preached the gospel and founded the first churches in Kerala,
Why would these Portuguese declare that they were sent by a rich King from a rich country,"much richer than any country in these parts"- then be surprised that you can't establish cordial relationship with these people.
They were trying to make themselves important so they were taken seriously by the king and recogised. But it was an exploration voyage so they didn't bring gold that might get lost. They would've been totally ignored if they didn't because why would he care about some far off land if it were of no consequence? The point was to establish relations with a Christian king, at threat of beheading by his own king. There was no Christian king so he pretended there was one and tried to establish relations but he needed gold to be taken seriously. He was very sad/desperate because of the danger to his life lol.
Why would you want to trade with a poor country? India had always been rich in its spices. Portugal had the goal of controlling this trade, it had to present itself as a reputable partner. You're a mighty Raj, a odd looking man that smells awful for not bathing in months of voyage meets you in an audience and says "I come from a poor country, let's trade your spices", you're gonna hear him?
Actually native Christians were located mostly in Cochin or Muzhiris , Trivandrum region at that time. More over king of calicut Samoorin had good relationship with Arabs. Later Vasco de gama came and conquered much territory of Kerala. There was a strong enemity existed between the local Christians and the Portuguese
He absolutely just lied and said they were Christians because he didn't want his head cut off by the Portuguese king. He totally knew that was not a church but a heathen temple, he just didn't want to record that.
Syriac Christians already had a burgeoning community in Kerala that at least goes back to 400 AD in the archeological record, although tradition puts it to Saint Thomas in the first century. It's possible he encountered them and not Hindus.
but every aspect of "christians" and "church" that they describe is identical of today hindus, for example the Tilaka (the dirt in the forehead and arms) and the sikha (the tuff of hair) and deities with a lot of arms (problably they adored Lakshmi) and so on, for me it's clear that it was hindus and not christians.
@@jatin2866 The people who represented Portugal and sailed the world were chosen precisely because they were highly intelligent, adaptable and cunning. Vasco da Gama likely was a charismatic man who probably learned very quickly, acquired interpreters (perhaps an Arab interpreter).
Generally there are people between two groups or other foreigners who have already been there. Arab is good suggestion given their presence there and accessibility to Europeans. It's never really a big issue though. If needed, within a couple of weeks you should know enough words to communicate very basically. Within a couple of months you should have a useable grasp on the language. This is the power of immersion and needing to communicate. But for sensitive things that require local knowledge, someone who speaks the language and knows what they're doing is obviously preferable. In this case it seems like they were well familiar with the culture and people beforehand. So likely through other foreigners who also taught them how things work.
Vasco da Gama sailed across Africa on his voyage to India. I'm sure the facts are documented somewhere, but I asume he had interpreters from east Africa/trader of the region that could speak the Indian language of the land alongside a more universal language, like Arabic
How many of you know that when Vasco came for second time he besieged the calicut for 2 weeks and even captured an unarmed pilgrimage ship returning from Mecca with women and children. When the local king sent an messenger of peace, he cut the ears of the messenger and his dog and stitched the dog ears to the messenger and bombarded the pilgrimage ship killing more than 300. Vasco was a devil but for westerners he is a pioneer who discovered sea route to India i.e. wealth
Funny how you chose to ignore the fact that it was a response to a massacre of dozens of Portuguese by local Muslims, aided by the king's soldiers, despite the treaties made between him and the Portuguese. Not to say that the Portuguese were angels, but their actions were driven primarily by the desire to outcompete the Muslim world, as Christendom at the time was threatened by the powerful Ottoman Empire, which was also blocking Christian trade with the Far East. That was the reason for great discoveries in the first place. On a general note, every nation has heroes that would be considered villains by another nation, especially if the two waged wars against each other. Nothing special here.
@@Diofill37 theres a huge difference. Muslim guilds with help of local soldiers killed portuguese soldiers. But Vasco burned a whole ship of piligrims which includes women, children and the old. Complete innocents
The Portugese came and told us Indians we were Christians.. The British came later and told us we were Aryans.. Our Ancestors were neither Christians nor Aryans, They were Hindus. Hindu Epics tell us of origin of all Hindus - It wasn't Europe but Uttara kuru (Kyrgystan) in Central Asia. Krishna says in Geeta - Descendants of Bharata came from Uttar Kuru.
What does he mean by "our language"? My best guess is that it could not be Portuguese but surely some form of Italian or the so-called "West Mediterranean lingua franca" a pidgin mix of Italian, Catalan, Spanish and indeed Portuguese, which was used by sailors and merchants in that era. I can imagine that they had some contact with Italy (Venice) if anything. Alternatively it could be some form of Latin?
@@tpower1912 - Soon after these events Venice, the Ottomans and the Mamluks formed a coalition to drive the Portuguese off the Indian region, although Portugal won (battle of Diu, 1509). So it seems to me that at that time Venice was still in good terms with the Ottomans and their Mamluk vassals (while Genoa was not and that's why they were first strangled in th Eastern trade and went westwards in cooperation with Portugal and the Spanish Crown. The worsening of Venetian-Ottoman relationships would only come later probably. Lepanto is many decades after these events: · VdG reached India in 1499 · Battle of Diu in 1509 · Battle of Lepanto in 1571 (Ottoman-Venetian War 15070-73) I'm not any expert in this period but what we can read in Wikipedia, for example, suggests that the Venetians were trying to manage the Ottomans by payments of tribute, etc. in this era. >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman%E2%80%93Venetian_War_(1570%E2%80%931573) Only since 1568 the Ottomans began focusing on Cyprus and the other Venetian colonies in the Eastern Mediterranean, arguably incited by a Sephardite Jew who was angry at the Christians.
@@tpower1912 - Persian would not be know by the Portuguese, although they surely had people who spoke good Arabic, as they had been trying to conquer Morocco. But "our language" must necessarily refer to some form of Latin/Romance. National Romances were already quite formed by those days but they were just then beginning to be recognized as such distinctive languages and not just as "sermo vulgaris" (popular speech). It may have felt a similar situation to modern Arabic speakers, whose dialects differ wildly but tend to consider each other speakers of the same language nevertheless.
@@tpower1912 - This was no Venezian trader but Portuguese explorer. I'm pretty sure someone like Vasco da Gama would only speak Romance, some Latin, some Arabic maybe but not Persian, which had very limited currency in the Mediterranean, let alone Atlantic Europe. Also he would not call it "our language". I'm as intrigued as you are but I can only conclude that by "our language" he means some variant of Latin/Romance, which one exactly? That's what I'd like clarified. My best guess is that it was the Mediterranean Lingua Franca, which as I read now was also used in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Barbary Coast. >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca
@@GrigRP - Why would he lie? I make much better sense of the Mediterranean Lingua Franca, which as a Romance pidgin (Latin only in a very loose sense), which was initially used in the Eastern Mediterranean, largely in the context of the Crusades (crusaders who were at times semi-allied to the Mongols) and later also in the Western Mediterranean under the leadership of the Italian merchant republics, one of which, Venice was in good terms with the Ottomans and Mamluks, being the answer. I can't say this is the definitive answer but seems the most plausible one.
India was so wealthy, its unfortunate the European story tellers always demean others and portray themselves as great. Thanks to internet we can all relearn history.
Well they were sailing around the world and building science and engineering and you weren't. So that tells me they're much greater then a bunch of people sitting around in towels.
@@SevenCostanzabruh listen to this ignorant person saying indians weren’t developing science?! Just google ancient Indian science and mathematics. We literally gave the number “0” decimals, steel, numericals and what not to the world. Why do you think so many Europeans wanted to come to India??? 🤡 The attitude of westerners still has not changed look at this ignorant comment.
@@SevenCostanza they were sailing for invasion and extraction of others resources,india was already into physics chemistry biology most common example is plastic surgery it was invented by Indian acharya "shushruta "
@@gustaam St. Thomas Major archiepiscopal church, Palayur (The Birthplace of Christianity in India) is located at Palayur (also spelt Palayoor), in Thrissur district in Kerala on the west coast of India. According to tradition, the Syrian church was established in 52 AD by St Thomas, one of the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ.[1] It is The first church in India ,
@@gustaam Pantene of Alexandria (IInd Century) went to India said he met there Christians that told they had be converted by Thomas and/or Bartholomew, and Pantene brought back to Egypt a gospel 'written in Hebraic language' the Indian christians had offered him as a gift. The commercial route with India was very active back then, by sea through Egypt, the Red Sea, Socotra and Indian Ocean during the Early Roman Empire (see the Periplus Maris Erythraei document) with 120 ships a year going back and forth, and by land through Syria, Mesopotamia, Persia. There's been many waves of early evangelization of India. The oldest Christianity of India has clear roots in the primitive Syriac church, and the Portuguese in the XVIth century were astonished to rediscover on the Coromandel Coast and Malabar those Christians, still practicing ancient aramaic liturgies, and claiming they kept the tomb of saint Thomas. Ilaria Ramelli, is a very valid researcher on this thema.
No Christian kingdom established in India even Britishers can not done India is a Christian land we Hindus give shelter to Syrian Christian. India is santan Dharma Country 🚩
I am from calicut. There is a king named "Samudhiry" from hindu. His Navey captian Called as "Kunchali Marakkar". It is big and famous force in the arabin sea. When Gama footed Kappad near Calicut in 1498 May 27 with 170 Companiyens.
There was a story in Europe that king called prestor John who is a priest and king of Indian Christian empire. But there is no record for this. Only Christian king ruler is villaravattom kings in udaymperoor near Cochin. When Vasco da Gama came here dynasty ended and representative of dynasty submitted royal emblom to Gama as gifts to Portugal king.
All the rituals he described when Vasco da gama visited the temple were Hindu rituals. A lady with many hands is the hindu goddess Durga and not a Christian goddess. I’m now doubting the authenticity of the content presented here. India was 95% hindu and 5% Muslim in the 14th century. This were also forcefully converted to Islam after the invasion,
Possibly a dumb question, but here goes, If it's the first time Portuguese explorers reached India, how in the hell did they meet Indians who started speaking Portuguese with them.
It is possible that maybe the Indian translator has been to a Portuguese colony on the East Africa coast, which is my best guess; the early modern period was quite wacky.
They possibly communicated in Latin, or the Mediterranean lingua franca (a mix of Portuguese, Spanish, Italian). It's not unlikely that some Indian merchants would kmow one of the two, to some extent
I’m not sure if anyone’s been to a Hindu puja but it’s pretty damn similar to Mass. Especially to mass pre Vatican 2. I could see why they saw similarities, and if they asked them their religion the answer would have been Sanatana Dharma which means the Eternal duty. Within that concept all living beings are considered to be practicing the same religion wether they know it or not. Perhaps they were like yes we follow the true eternal faith, and the Portuguese were like ahh so ur Catholics.
Did you know that Christianity Started in India in AD 52 , that is much before Christianity reaches to Europe ( India we have a Jewish settlement during that era-first was among those Jews and few of the native people) and those Christians are called Syrian Christians and they are still purely Indian in culture and peaceful. After Portuguese reaches in India they try to spread Christianity in India and those Christians are called Latin Christians. Then later English people started promoting Protestant missionaries as a result English churches like CNI , CSI churches etc was established. Then in the beginning of 20th century brethren groups of people from America started promoting their faith especially in north east India and north India. This brethren people also called Pentecost groups known for influencing people for conversation from Hinduism to Christianity. Their work is known for all kind of protests. Syrian Christians/Latin Christians/Protestant are very peaceful people and they are mostly trying to promote education and marginalised people( because of the discrimination faced by the cast system some maybe accepting Christianity that we can avoid if we Hindus stop cast discrimination) . Lots of our Hindu leaders and our people studied in Christian institutions and none of them converted into Christianity instead we all got quality education. In my opinion this brethren section is only make all this issues among Christiansbut I may say they are far far better than the Muslim community. We should really focus on them, in Quran itself it’s says to destroy other religions. That’s why Islamic terrorism is happening! My suggestion is that we Hindus should handhold with Christians( they are more scholarly and disciplined, also compassionate) and fight against terrorism!!!
@@hindurashtra63 how can we trust your words too?? Do you have any proof??? Or it's spread by some hindutva channel video??? There are inscription which say there were Syrian Christians were 2000 years old.
I guess no one making this video or commenting on it knows anything about Saint Thomas Christians or the Early Church Traditions of the ministries of the Apostles...because Saint Thomas, Doubting Thomas himself travelled to India, converted masses of Hindus, and started a Church, he was eventually martyred by local religious & political leaders, but those were the Indians that Vasco de Gama encountered.
my father is from a place near niranam.. niranam, kerala is a place where st Thomas built a church of the 7 n half churches in India in 40 ad or something.. still lives up to this day
They did.At the first arrival itself,Gama was presented with the Royal scepter of the last Christian king,by the Nestorians. (the kingdom he ruled over was absorbed into a larger kingdom,a few years earlier owing to having no male heir.).So,while he was a little late to find a Christian kingdom as it had been dissolved some years prior,he did find out the Nestorians pretty soon.And Gama arrived in Calicut,not Calcutta as the narrator states,(These are 2 diametrically opposite places on the Indian map)
Why yes, at this time, when the Portuguese navy was the mightiest in the world, they could only afford 3 ships...magnificent observation!!! Portugal wanted nothing to do with India's gold, they were there for the spice, they didn't want to loot it, they wanted to control its trade, looting is bad for trade. Bad for profit. That's why you have the Portuguese conquer coastal cities and ports and not going inland.
