Conscious Agents vs Cognitive Agents with Donald Hoffman and Michael Levin

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#evolution #consciousness #donaldhoffman #cognitivescience #micheallevin #neuroscience #cognitive
In Philosophy Babble - The Great Minds Series
On Spotify: tinyurl.com/47tpccav
On Acast: tinyurl.com/y7zkmnwj
In this instalment:
We’re delighted to have Professor Emeritus of Cognitive Science Donald Hoffman and Professor of Developmental and Synthetic Biology Michael Levin to discuss their great works.
This conversation was recorded during a live session on Clubhouse @philosophybabble Apology for the slight audio and video quality/issues during the conversation. We had a great time getting educated on the topic, both Professors have a great sense of humours and we had some interruption, some drama but a lot of fun moments too. Wonderful time well spent!
Topic of discussion: Conscious Agency/Cognitive Agency
The view in our cognitive scientists today is that we construct our perception of reality in real time. The questions was, could we be misinterpreting the content of our perceptual experiences? And What is our current understanding in the biology of science?
According to evolution, what we perceive with our brain and our senses does not reflect the true nature of the reality. Why should you care? The implications of such radical finding rock the foundation of our belief systems that space-time is fundamental.
Timecodes
00:00 - Intro
01:28 - Any new project for 2023?
01:29 - Levin on his outstanding long list of project
02:33 - Ivy and Don were shock with Levin’s list, very impressive!
02:39 - Don on new up coming new paper - Look out for it!
03:09 - Don is looking on a dynamic and he speak on the insight
05:41 - Ivy’s on Levin’s tweets - find out what it is!
06:23 - Ivy’s ask about the toy that missing
06:30 - Levin on his childhood memory
07:33 - Levin on the notion of selfhood
09:10 - Levin on what’s he meant on ”illusory self”
12:07 - Is space-time a data structure?
12:20 - Don on time and space
17:33 - Levin on the profound idea of space-time
21:41 - Summarising Don’s model from an autistic point of view (shocker!)
22:07 - Its raving BONKER
22:12 - Has that view change your life?
22:23 - Don on realisation of the reality has yet to sunk it, slow process
26:14 - We’re programmed at the stage since we're 3 months old baby
26:40 - Levin on a lunch debate with a friend on free will (funny moment!)
28:18 - Levin on two side of the common conditioning Experience vs Memory
31:12 - Dinosaur is not real? Sad moment, just saying HA!
31:18 - Funny reaction from both professor
31:29 - Don on Dinosaur is an art effect! (I’m sad to let it goes)
33:33 - Funny moment from both professor when we were rudely interrupted by an audience
34:09 - Don on Conscious Agent Model / maths and physics
38:43 - The question on the maths ?
39:09 - What is a measurable space?
42:12 - Levin arrive at the same understanding with Don through biology lenses
47:42 - Levin's perspective of the theory on consciousness
50:14 - Don on split brain phenomena
54:24 - The brilliant moment of the different of perspective on split brain story by Levin
57:39 - Common factor of all these conscious agents?
01:00:30 - Question on panpsychism to Levin
01:06:14 - How many conscious agency to make a photon?
01:10:50 - Prakash on plant biology
01:13:15 - Andy (Hiro Protagonist) great question!
01:16:12 - Don on evolution game theory
01:23:34 - Don on Nima’s work and future collaboration
01:26:23 - Willi questions
01:31:24 - Levin on bio-electricity
01:36:06 - The notion on reality
01:41:58 - Mehran question on perception through the view of Fristion’s Markov blanket
01:44:17 - The idea of perception is bayesian inference nicely explain by Don
01:47:21 - John’s question to don’s hypothesis of letting go of space time
01:52:50 - John only joking!
01:53:04 - Vinod challenging Don for the objectives of the conscious agents
01:53:40 - Don set thing straight with Vinod
01:55:48 - Ethan get the chance to complete his interrupting moment with Don
01:57:24 - Did Don roll his eyes?
01:58:43 - Toni got the last question. Don show so much humility all through the Q&A session!
02:01:40 - The Three Musketeers and Donald Hoffman
02:02:22 - Madir's emotional plead as he didn’t get his question ask. Sorry Madir
PLEASE HELP SUPPORT THE CHANNEL
MASSIVE THANK YOU TO THE TEAM, ESPECIALLY JOHN AND EVERYONE WHOM JOINED US ON THAT DAY.
JOIN US AT: CLUBHOUSE FOR FUTURE LIVE SESSION
Clubhouse: @philosophybabble
Copyright © 2023 by Philosophy Babble. All rights reserved.

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25 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 283

@GiedriusMisiukas Год назад

19:40 43:50 48:00 55:30 1:05:20 1:08:00 1:11:00 1:13:30 1:37:30 1:50:30

@philosophybabble Год назад

55:30 One of the best moment of Levin during the conversation! Thanks for mentioning it 😂

@GiedriusMisiukas Год назад

@@philosophybabble yeah :) And this discussion has quite a few synergetic moments. I am still in progress of listing some interesting moments while I continue listening.

@philosophybabble Год назад

@labudewa3034 Artefact as in everything is object of consciousness through the perception

@nonpareilstoryteller5920 Год назад

So, what is going on when ‘object permanence” doesn’t take hold or isn’t programmed in the 3 month old’s brain, that is, in Donald’s framing?

@adamdavis8253 Год назад

Thank ya

@johnvliet523 9 месяцев назад

I’ve been following Hoffman for a few years and Levin for just over a year now. It didn’t even occur to me. They would know each other to do a search for both of them together. Hoffman is so heady I easily get lost so I appreciate him in conversation with Levin who is able to ground the concepts in reality in ways I have a better chance of understanding. I am a medium and have felt a strong need to know how communication with non-physical entities is possible. Hoffman’s User Illusion was the first piece of anything close to a direction in science I came across that might explain the reality of a larger dimensional space or stage on which what I was routinely seeing acted out. When I came across Levin on TOE, I believed I was seeing someone whose ideas of morphogenetic fields was the realest direction I had seen on the nature of discarnate souls. I’m no scientist, only intuitive, but for me these two together are like lightening in a fireworks factory. Thank you Ivy!

@philosophybabble 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. Glad you found our channel. :)

@SrValeriolete 7 месяцев назад

Do you know the Yogachara school of buddhism? A lot of Hoffman discourse and models mirrors their thinking, the only thing is that they used dreams as examples instead of virtual reality.

@0ptimal Год назад

I just love this. The pairing of these two was brilliant. Hoffman brings out another dimension of brilliance in Levin. Levin is the sort of mastermind you want contemplating these things. I am excited to see what he figures out in the years ahead.

@backwardthoughts1022 7 месяцев назад

unless you want to subject your audience to nauseating stupidity, a physicalist should stick to engineering, not topics relating to the mind

@RogueElement. 6 месяцев назад

@@backwardthoughts1022no. It's not about the audience. He finds. Other people can do the explaining to "weaker audiences"

@backwardthoughts1022 6 месяцев назад

@@RogueElement. when 10yos go around sprouting YOLO ie. physicalism, i dont think further endless physicalism is whats needed how about, I dunno, going over the data showing that not a single emergent property of consciousness has ever been prayed into existence at its asserted basis of emergence location. hoffman touches this but only every minimally. every time the physicalist babbles on about his religions hoffman needs to pretend he has no idea what the physicalist is talking about, cos by definition he doesn't

@RogueElement. 6 месяцев назад

@@backwardthoughts1022 lol right. The world WILL annihilate itself if Materialism and related views are not abandoned. I am an analytical Idealism person. (Bernardo kastrup) you are right 🤣 I agree. But well kids these days are into genders anyway 😭🤷🏾‍♂️🤣

@andriaantell5410 Месяц назад

If they have a kept this hidden. Why would they let us find out about it as you have? Why keep it hidden anymore?

@zbigniewbecker5080 Год назад

As an armchair Buddhist I am in deep awe of the dimension of Michael Levin's grasp and take of reality and the concept of very selfhood as constantly recreated from the memories of past events, and constantly laying foundations for our future versions - to be created from the memories of now.

@grosbeak6130 Год назад

Why mention that you are an armchair Buddhist? Well I have to say that your comment following that statement proves that you are.

@thehereticalinvestigation 9 месяцев назад

In some presentations you can see his desktop background prior to starting the slide deck, and it's one of Roerichs works.. He knows.

@futureproof.health 8 месяцев назад

Armchair Buddhism 🕉️, perfect 👍🏼

@egcowling9657 9 месяцев назад

Levin is very important to the future of humanity and unlocking the secrets of existence. Hoffman is easily the same. Great show!

@user-tt2cu2il1s Месяц назад

We should talk. Hoffman connected to me.. I can explain it. But it rocked me and daily rocks me. I’m now watching all of his videos.

@Meditation409 Год назад

Imagine what high school students will be taught in science in 100 years from now ❤

@ericcunningham3659 11 месяцев назад

They’ll probably be learning Newtonian physics and not understanding it- I guess I haven’t seen much evidence of high schools pushing the envelope of learning 🙂

@Meditation409 10 месяцев назад

I definitely agree....and that's a topic of a deep podcast and collaboration in itself which would be quite an awesome discussion to watch!! ❤

@Sethan777 10 месяцев назад

Could go two ways. More dumbing down, or more knowledge.

@anthonybrett 9 месяцев назад

They'll probably still be debating what a "woman" is.

@akaROOSTA 9 месяцев назад

alpetkiewicz6805 seriously trips me the hell out when i find myself sitting around and pontificating on the strange fact that i've literally learned practically more and in a copious dense fashion learning outside of my 12 year schooling career. using youtube and google as a tool

@martinrenthlei3303 Год назад

I did not expect my biology hero ( I said what I said ) Levin to be here discussing metaphysics. The more you know ...

@HeronMarkBlade Год назад

Yeah Levin understands that metaphysics is not woo woo, but rather an.essentual component of any scientific theory. Sure, tell us whats going to happen, but what's it really happening to?

@danmoretti8898 11 месяцев назад

We're entering an era where the most powerful scientific ideas come from people who are capable of seeing beyond the physical realm that we've been so obsessed with for 100+ years (Hoffman and Levin are foremost here). It's not an indictment of physics - the study of the physical has been essential for moving to a deeper understanding of nature, which will eventually come to include consciousness.

@oolala53 10 месяцев назад

My previous eastern philosophy teacher was a physicist before he had a transition in his level of awareness beyond thought. He said the problem for scientists is that they were always looking at phenomena and not seeing that some thing was aware of the phenomenon, and then that was even more important. He claims that science will never actually be able to measure, or even find awareness because it’s not a thing. But these discussions help loosen that attachment to this examination of what is basically a dream. I don’t know if Donald Hoffman says it any place else, but since he has said that in the visual field, something like an apple represents something useful, but it’s not actually the Apple, and it’s way more complicated than we are equipped to understand. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe it’s any different for anything else that appears to the senses, including thoughts. Even thoughts that seem to be expressing a very profound idea are made of some thing that we are experiencing but even it is not what it seems like. I can’t claim to have experience this deeply, but I think getting used to these ideas is part of what can help open the door.

@Sambasue 9 месяцев назад

@@HeronMarkBladewe live in a culture obsessed with observations, but with little consideration as to what these perceptions appear to and completely within.

@socratesagain7822 Год назад

I absolutely loved this presentation! These "reality-building consciousness" reflections confirm the intuitive writings of Ortega y Gassett, specifically as he outlined them in his seminal work, _Man and People_ ("El Hombre y La Gente"), from lectures presented in the early 1930's but published in book form in 1957. About time folks yanked this mind-blowing topic out of obscurity. Man not merely makes himself, he constructs a universe where he _focuses his attention_ and seeks consensus/validation for it. Ah, the human condition! Keep up the great work, professors Hoffman and Levin. Be well.

@mequetri Год назад

Fascintating... and how about this... since we´re aknowledging past intuitions of these truths, regarding the concept of memory having to recreate it´s past at every instant, I think of Jorge Luis Borge´s sentence in A History Of Eternity: ¨Thus they say that the conservation of this world is a perpetual creation and that the verbs, 'conserve' and 'create', so much at odds here, are synonymous ...¨

@JV-lk6md 23 дня назад

Exciting stuff from Mr Hoffman. Real work being done ❤

@waynekington4426 8 месяцев назад

Really this is the first time I've heard scientists actually propose theories that match up to my understandings from personal enlightenment investigations. I've been waiting a while. Refreshing.

@tomgressman323 Год назад

Excellent discussion. Interesting to see Donald Hoffman refer to Leibniz. It may be of value to have these two individuals back in the future when additional research as been done.

@surrendertoflow78 Год назад

These two just get better and better 🥰

@yosivin1 Год назад

WELL DONE. GREAT AND INSPIRING CONVERSATION. THANK YOU.

@philosophybabble Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@tpwb5882 Год назад

This is like the most interesting interview of the century or so.

@williamjmccartan8879 Год назад

Thank you for posting and sharing this conversation, it provides a wide range of areas to look at when trying to get your footing in such fields. Peace

@hansmachado9163 Год назад

THANK YOU FOR SHARING ALL THIS BEAUTY!

@philosophybabble Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@Self-Duality Год назад

Where “cognition” denotes input-to-output attribution, it is more general than consciousness and applies to the processes of any scale of matter, but where “consciousness” denotes “raw experience”, it converts the properties of processes to qualia or qualitative properties. Both terms, at least connotatively, serve complementary purposes.

@horsymandias-ur 7 месяцев назад

Qualia are the functions of processes? I have been reading Berkeley recently and he struck me with an intuitive comment that what Locke called “primary qualities” (e.g. physical extension) are only ever known in virtue of “secondary qualities” (qualia)-for example, one’s coming to have the conception of a triangle is cashed out in terms of the qualia which distinguish it against a background. From that point of view, I think processes are conversely properties of qualia. How does this proposal sit with you? (and does it seem I’ve actually understood what you are saying?) Many thanks always

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

Thank u Michael I’ve been waiting a long time to hear someone express experience and memory as an eternal substrate

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

Aaaaaaaamen!! Love you Michael!!! U r amazing.. I’ve waited to hear this too!!!’

@glenemma1 Год назад

There are countless conscious agents, so to speak, but they are all aspects of the One Consciousness.

@Earthad23 Год назад

One consciousness experiencing itself subjectively

@Unknown-rc6xt Месяц назад

This is pseudoscience.

@glenemma1 Месяц назад

@@Unknown-rc6xt It is pseudo when you throw out one-liners with no substance or content at all. And this is the nature of your comment. The idea that space/time is dead, so to speak, is not fundamental, is said by learned scientists. The fundamental nature of consciousness has been espoused by people who have given their lives to an earnest study of the nature of reality and the essence of anything they perceive. Being conscious, consciousness/awareness itself is recognised as this fundamental reality.

@glenemma1 Месяц назад

@@Unknown-rc6xt People like Donald Hoffman and thinkers the world over have given their lives to studying the nature of Reality. They conclude that its fundamental nature is not the world of appearances, the space/time of our apparent reality, but awareness/consciousness itself. This is the fundamental reality, is reality Itself. To dismiss this with a clever one-liner that it is pseudoscience is pure glibness and very insulting.

@johnnastrom9400 6 дней назад

@@Unknown-rc6xt No. If the subject material is beyond your comprehension, then please go watch some Taylor Swift videos. The sophisticated adults in this channel would like to have some intellectual conversation without your name-calling.

@Jimmy-el2gh Год назад

I was asleep while listening and Dr. Levin was in my dream he was speaking in front of a star chart and he circled three star systems on the chart. Strange but neat.

@starxcrossed 11 месяцев назад

Hi 👋 this kind of thing happens to me too. I like it. It’s your right brain telling you something visually, at least that’s how I think about it

@Jimmy-el2gh 11 месяцев назад

@@starxcrossed thank you

@Meditation409 Год назад

This is insanely amazing. I could sit for an entire night listening and learning ❤

@gordonpepper1400 10 месяцев назад

At 54:07 he is talking about interface into the nature of our reality and this is exactly what McLuhan's theories are about - the medium is the message. It's a profound aphorism but addresses many of the points made in this fascinating discussion.

@stevekean512 7 месяцев назад

Bravo Michael, The practical level is much more interesting, useful, and discoverable. I'll take the excitement of experience, and if the memory is gone, go do it again! I'm a doer, hobiecat 17 hull flyer, wind surfer, scubadiver, marathon runner, pilot of RC and full-size planes, build and fly FPV Drones, worked in Bolivia. Colombia, Texas, Libya, and Saudi Arabia, in Geophysics, system and network engineering, commercial software developer in natural gas trading, wrote flight simulation games in Unity3D. I bow hunt in my primitive south Texas land, gun hunt, and I get to remember everything!

@johnnastrom9400 6 дней назад

Yawn!!! Another kid in his mom's basement claiming achievements in areas he has never been involved in.

@randolphbrandt3713 9 месяцев назад

At 30:00 where the either/or question is posed, I would ask to have the memory of having the experience in the present moment, now. A memory of being present.

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

We have to understand what’s keeping us from remembering!!!

@JavierBonillaC 9 месяцев назад

Professor Hoffman is the epitome of a scientist. His vocation for truth is complete. I am sure that if tomorrow he was shown, beyond controversy, that matter is essential, he would accept it in a heartbeat. I hope that in the future he would bring things like the Markovian dynamics and decorated permutations to us in a more intuitive fashion. 99% of the people that see these videos don’t know what Markovian Dynamics are.

@philosophybabble 9 месяцев назад

Markovian dynamics is like playing hopscotch and thinking only of your next jump

@formerfundienowfree4235 5 месяцев назад

I love the mind-bending content! The more radical the better as far as I'm concerned.

@gprivat812_my_selection6 9 месяцев назад

This talk gives incredible insights into fields of reality that, up to now, was hidden from us! To me, it's more than fascinating!

@glenemma1 Год назад

Donald Hoffman is brilliant.

@grosbeak6130 Год назад

Nothing wrong with you being a fanboy of Donald, but could it be that you are easily impressed?

@glenemma1 Год назад

@@grosbeak6130 Well, I'm not going out of my way to be difficult to be impressed. I am impressed with Donald because he is truly a scientist, seeking the truth and not preoccupied with defending a particular world view. He is capable of observing and researching and changing his mind. A lot of ''scientists', ironically, can't do this.

@grosbeak6130 Год назад

@@glenemma1 okay, well said and fair enough, but Donald and Bernardo and the like offer very clever ways of thinking or mind candy which I personally don't find really all that solid i.e. their thinking or philosophy does not have any ontological certainty or status.

@glenemma1 Год назад

@@grosbeak6130 I think Donald would agree with you to an extent. He himself says that his theory is almost certainly wrong. He adds that his students will find answers. Donald's major contribution is to be a scientist who seriously looks at the premise that Space and Time are not fundamental. We are all children at the moment playing in a sandbox in dealing with this. But everything begins with baby steps.

@rockapedra1130 Год назад

Donald Hoffman is incomprehensible.

@SimplifiedTruth Год назад

Thanks!

@beeshepard Год назад

great pairing of guests, a shame about the audio hiccups.

@ericphilo6194 10 месяцев назад

I just enjoyed The Origin of Time In Conscious Agents -Donald D. Hoffman plus Levin clips of late and am looking forward to this interplay.

@KRAU5555 2 месяца назад

This is an amazing debate/discussion and we need more of this

@philosophybabble 2 месяца назад

Thank you for your encouragement!

@firevavanced6669 Год назад

Thanks for that great video and hello from the Dominican Republic!

@fickyrisher 7 месяцев назад

1:14:20 - love that analogy of truth

@grosbeak6130 Год назад

They do but conjecture. P.s. reading many of the comments here you would think that this kind of discussion is actually some kind of new religion that people are enamored of. But a cautionary note here folks, mind candy can be addictive.

@SofaKingShit 9 месяцев назад

Perfekt ASMR. Like reading an incomprehensible book back in the day.

@tejaK Год назад

Excellent & enlightening, thank you very much.💖💖💖

@davidmireles9774 10 месяцев назад

Michael Levin is very insightful. Donald also. I love where the science and philosophy is focused on this conversation. This was a treat. 🎉

@lokiholland 9 месяцев назад

❤ loved this !

@alexanderrublevskii4762 9 месяцев назад

two absolute legends speaking facts, love it 🫦

@CKEKEKEKDK Год назад

You had me at decorative permutations

@tpwb5882 Год назад

I have insisted for this interview of these two brilliant gentlemen's for lex friedman at his podcast months ago. Thanks lady

@beetlejuice3715 Год назад

Lex is a putz

@StephenPaulKing Год назад

At 31:50 Hoffman talks about Agreements. We can apply Aumann's Agreement theorem and related ideas to this and make a lot more sense of how required consensus is at the root of our "objective reality".

@alang911 Год назад

I love donald and co, please rread The Physics of Consciousness by Ivan Antic.

@craigbowers4016 Год назад

I have not heard of that before, I will look into it now. Thank you. (Please do leave suggestions for further reading in suggestions! That is wonderful!)

@davidrandell2224 Год назад

“The Final Theory: Rethinking Our Scientific Legacy “, Mark McCutcheon. “The Unique and Its Property “, Max Stirner/ Landstreicher translation.

@MMA4CMT Год назад

I've often asked myself if two heads are better than one, is that why some of us are better at problem solving and analysis than many individuals. Conflicts in the mind can lead to a balanced hypothesis... For some of us.

@philosophybabble Год назад

Not two Heads, we have two Hemisphere which mean, if anyone of those damage we still left with one that could function!

@simesaid Год назад

@@philosophybabble The commentator was making a pun. "Two heads are better than one" is a idiom in English language, and simply refers to the point that two people are more often able to solve a problem than one person is. The commentator was riffing on 'split brain' surgeries (mentioned by both guests), wherein patients wake from their anaesthesia to find that "they" now have a twin persona - one that often holds very different views than "they" do (it is, of course, impossible to determine which was the pre-surgery "original"). The commentator was wondering whether people with good critical analysis skills are more adept than others because they have a more well-balanced brain - that is to say, because they tend to interact with, question, and ultimately argue against, "themselves" more than others do. It's a question that I would answer in the affirmative. As the Dunning-Kruger effect clearly demonstrates, the more certain a person is in their subjective knowledge the less they will objectively know - questioning oneself is thus an essential tool in solving complex problems. Moreover, it is not at all a trivial task to learn good critical thinking, as the dominant left hemisphere of the brain has no natural desire to forego its self-proclaimed intellectual mastery! And as to your response, no, the brain doesn't work like that - a very small trauma to one area of the brain can quite often lead to major cognitive dysfunction that cannot then be remedied simply by severing the corpus callosum. Michael and Don simply raised the topic to demonstrate that _whoever_ it is that we think "we" are, we are _not,_ in fact, whoever that person thinks "we" are! 🤷🏻‍♂️🙅🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

@simesaid Год назад

I concur unreservedly! Or at least I thought I did... Sigh 😕

@philosophybabble Год назад

@@simesaid 😁😆😆

@gabrielclark9093 4 месяца назад

Plato was absolutely correct. So is Qabala. There is mathematical realm of perfect form outside of space and time in which all of the material realm derives from. So western science is finally caught back up with where it was 2500 years ago! I am so thankful everyday that this information can finally be shared without having to be burned by the church.

@losgrillosloopeandenoche9754 Месяц назад

Im going the tell the pope.

@davenickname Год назад

Brilliant. Can anyone reccomend the best concise introduction ( video or pamphlet) to Decorative permutations, scattering amplitudes , chase trains etc ? Gosh Id like to do a few mushrooms with these dudes. Respect. ps" perception of truth leads to extinction" reminds me of Nietzsche" the birth of tradjedy" , or is that something else entirely , perhaps Monkeys "Awareness of Vaccuity "

@harjotmahal8985 7 месяцев назад

I like the Buddhist idea that phenomena are self liberated due to the presence of awareness

@prettytrue-zj3tj 10 месяцев назад

omg ty so much

@zdrowymiro 4 месяца назад

Mega ważne. Obejrzyj nie raz a parę razy.

@juanrojas7505 5 месяцев назад

Excellent. Great to have this awesome topic addressed in this conversation. P. Hoffman & Michale Levin perspective on the subject are away and ahead of mainstream thought . Greetings from Chile🇨🇱🇨🇱🇨🇱. Btw subscribing to your channel.

@davidmadariaga9675 27 дней назад

wenaaaa, viva chile jsjsjs

@juanrojas7505 27 дней назад

@@davidmadariaga9675 wenaaa

@HeronMarkBlade Год назад

fantastic!! two of my favourite thinkers

@philosophybabble Год назад

Mine too!

@DavidKolbSantosh 8 месяцев назад

Too bad about the sound quality and how keeps cutting out on this great conversation.

@donaldrobertson1808 Год назад

Since we don't have a good intuitive understanding of physics at the fundamental level where space & time don't exist, & we have no idea how space & time emerge on our level in classical physics, how do be we know that there aren't structures at the fundamental level that are extremely analogous to space/time in classical physics that fully separating what exists in classical physics, merely a shallow interface, from actual reality at the fundamental level to be possibly a dangerously presumptuous mistake?

@robotaholic 10 месяцев назад

High! It's 420 am from Oklahobo

@sebirada9942 Год назад

Advaita of Upanishad spoke of consciousness at least four thousand years ago.

@integralsun 4 месяца назад

The Space-Time construct is an added semantic component to phenomenal perception by the mind. The modern human brain’s abstract mentation abilities is the basis for language and concept formation among other things like an ego or illusory sense of personhood. Sensory perception is filtered through the lens of the thinking mind. Direct perception is possible but is a further refinement of one’s neural network.

@krisc6216 Год назад

Thank you so much for offering the platform for those brilliant spirits to reach us. I'm grateful to come across these talks. If schools would just skip a few hours of grammar and math and replace them by these talks, it would be so beneficial for humanity. I grew up in the pre-internet era, and I was conditioned to think otherwise. They had me wasting so much time. I have some catching up to do.

@Person4649Person 8 месяцев назад

The great thing about Donald Hoffman is that he explains some CTMU concepts and implications in an understandable way (or sometimes John Wheeler's ideas).

@ricardogomez8302 4 месяца назад

Common sense is the behavioral disposition that keeps an organism in balance with its environment. An example of this common sense can be seen in evolutionary behavior: Organisms that live in water developed their anatomy differently than organisms that live outside of water. Another prism of common sense is day-to-day behavior, For example, each organism, according to its physical capabilities, obtains the resources it needs to survive. Now, consciousness appears when common sense interacts with sensory experiences. When we talk about consciousness, we are aware of something, for example: We are aware of what we see, what we hear, etc... But to be aware of something, you must first perceive it; And if the organism does not perceive anything, there is no consciousness about that something. The sensory experience of sound begins with the interaction between audible waves and the receptors in the ear. If we combine the audible experience with other senses, such as touch, we can conceptualize increasingly complex ideas such as distance, space, even time, etc. I believe that as long as there is an organism, receiving and processing information from the environment, we call that cycle consciousness. And the more complex the organism, the more complex its consciousness.

@dr.mikeybee Год назад

The lack of an entropic-arrow of time in Markovian dynamics of conscious agents makes sense to me. Just as Copernican astronomy simplified celestial calculations, this seems logical.

@KRAU5555 2 месяца назад

I really like the soup story...

@phulbig Год назад

Best discussion in this subject I have heard in while! Thank you.

@philosophybabble Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@DeliYomgam 2 месяца назад

Gravity, space n time comes it's a phenomenon.

@marthafernandez9220 9 месяцев назад

Where can I find you papers so I may read what you are stating.

@johnatchason6506 8 месяцев назад

Two great candidates to sit on the presidential ufo disclosure board as outlined in the 2024 NDAA legislation

@FredHosea Год назад

Wondering if there's a relationship between the various combinations of uncertain, stochastic and chaotic dynamics and power sets relate to the structure and processes of the Mandelbrot set and the binary processing chains of the Hopf bifurcations. At a certain point, the M-set may serve as an embodied brain filter to capture vast computational relations and sort into IN-set and OUT-set, depending on how deep in the MSet each computational pathway can go during the synchronizing timeframes dictated by the need for immediate action. With enough available time, it becomes possible to enter into virtually infinite imaginal universes of thought (going down the rabbit hole, in some cases) governed by the infinite recursive representational logic of the MSet.

@OdjoAdja Год назад

maybe consciousness is a kind of 'Intelligent Algorithms' which is 'intangible' as the 'property' any kind of 'things' in physical realm.. this 'Intelligent Algorithm is not bounds to 'space-time' continuum just like the physical things.. and the phenomena that exist in spiritual or mystical domain or 'meta consciousness' is deal with this kind of 'Intelligent Algorithms'.. for example the incarnation is how the 'Intelligent Algorithms' from past be transferred to the next living things or how 'Intelegent Algorithms' that has 'particular purpose' can be transferred to non living things such as virus, amulet etc, or even Artificial Intelligence.. so entertaining 54:32 love to hear that kind of stories, thanks it make life so beautiful..🙏

@philosophybabble Год назад

Michael Levin have a great sense of humour, agreed !😄 Thank you for your comment. Welcome 🙏

@user-it5pe1lw5f 9 месяцев назад

Thank you my friends. I love God Father *Elohim * , I love Fire Energy "Holy Spirit ".

@nohandle962 10 месяцев назад

I want these topics studied and discussed in regard to chakra's.

@seth956 7 месяцев назад

We cannot use language to understand the universe. But it would seem that this is the foundational tool which we use to design any tool we use to search or understand. Understanding is circular by nature likewise all things. By language we achieve and by language we are bound. The beginning of understanding is also the end.

@nonpareilstoryteller5920 Год назад

So using Donald’s’ framing, what is going on where ‘object permanence” doesn’t take hold by 3 months and becomes permanently unstable rather than stabilising? Why is the ‘ programming ‘ going wrong and how should we view the problem, anew? In light of Donald’s theory about recreating objects every time, what does his theory tell us about object impermanence ? Is there something new to be understood in the outcome, in the the malfunctioning ? Should we understand it differently from what Psychiatrists understand currently? What would Jean Piaget need to know to understand object permanence differently if these “new” meanings of “ object permanence” were available back in time, if we can even refer to the past that way now, but of course, that’s another ball game.

@philosophybabble Год назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mitw2XcXY98.html

@poor_jafar 6 месяцев назад

26:17 1:22:09

@user-ed9hj8fm2t 6 месяцев назад

thaml you- supercool

@donaldrobertson1808 Год назад

The payoff functions are not generically chosen. They are selected for environmental fitness, which exists at the fundamental level of objective reality

@craigwillms61 Год назад

As much as I'd like to "see" the world this way, since it has ramifications for life after death so to speak. But I can't rap my mind around it fully. I get that we really don't perceive reality as it actually is due to the limited perception of our senses, but that nothing at all is real is a bridge to far.

@leonstenutz6003 10 месяцев назад

#Reality #SpaceTime Scales of SpaceTime #FundamentalObjects #FundamentalLaws #FundamentalReality #Evolution #Neurobiology #RER #ReverseEngineerReality #Entropy #Markof #Agents #DPs #DecoratedPermutation #ConsciousAgents

@Anders01 10 месяцев назад

There is a huge gap between physics and biology, but with computers and AI that gap could become smaller. I like the Wolfram Physics Project model, where time is simply the iterations of a simple graph. And all of space, energy and matter is that graph on the most fundamental level. Edit: Michael Levin mentioned a good point, that there is top-down control in the universe. And I think maybe even as true strong emergence, but then the Wolfram model can still be used by replacing the computational rules with for example a complex attractor which can account for things like top-down control and strong emergence. Regarding Michael's question about choosing between having a pleasant experience but no memories of it or only having the memory without the actual experience, I choose neither!

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

Oh this is a great question!! No memory no experience!! Like a dream without a memory of it would suggest no dream!! How about past lives??? No memory no past lives!!! Omg !!!!

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

This is the awakening of eternal life

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

Could give new meaning to why the word “now” preceded the serpent in the garden of eden

@matthew.pattonprentice Год назад

Why are some parts muted??

@AaaaaBeeee Год назад

Great discussion. Tom Campbell describes something similar in his accessible MBToe trilogy.

@user-rc2xs5ti2w 11 месяцев назад

Conscious Agent - I am one

@BoManton 3 месяца назад

why are there times of no sound? almost seems like this video was censored

@philosophybabble 3 месяца назад

It was technical issue with the connection

@MichaelSmith420fu 10 месяцев назад

You know how when you get a energized feeling from discovering something new about yourself or your environment? I think... maybe "reality" has some to do with novelty.

@jbperez808 Год назад

Is there a version without the audio gaps?

@philosophybabble Год назад

I can't guarantee the audio version is better but there a raw uncut audio version on Clubhouse. Inbox us if you would like the raw material.

@illusion5342 10 месяцев назад

1:41:05 - Donald Hoffman saying he will have a testable prediction of his theory. Someone, remind me when this paper gets published. This could be groundbreaking.

@sherrybutts5947 5 месяцев назад

So Donald eternal life is the doll behind the pillow!!! Omg 🎉

@aaronknight7129 10 месяцев назад

titans! pillars!

@alfakennywon Год назад

54:18

@gracefullosco6112 7 месяцев назад

Wait a sec is that guy asking the question Willi ..is he on the panel? He needs his own podcast..too long interaction for a question.

@MrBobzane 9 месяцев назад

Holy crap.

@AskEpic Год назад

I think its bad that I was thinking for a few minutes this may be an AI generated video is there a link to the clubhouse?

@philosophybabble Год назад

What make you think it is an AI?

@ronenram 11 месяцев назад

❤🧡💛💚💙

@bigpicture3 9 месяцев назад

Well in order to have the "experience" at all this has to be so. If we are to assume that none of it would exist at all without "consciousness" both the "experience" itself and the "processes" behind the experience. And if we were to be consciously aware in the moment that we are actually creating both the "experience" and the "processes", then we could not have that individuated kind of experience. A lot of it goes back to Jung and his theories/concepts of the conscious and the unconscious mind, and even subconscious. The conscious mind creates the persona or the Ego, which is nothing more than a (temporary) "conceptual self" (ego) and this ego creates a "veil" that blocks access to the actual (permanent) "knower" or sometimes called the Real Self. (that resides in the unconscious or subconscious) If something is actually permanent (eternal) then time has no real meaning, it only has a meaning to that which is temporary (the ego) that is subject to dissolution and entropy. This Conscious Agents theory will be interesting as it develops, on how it will reconcile the "changing" (material events) with the "changeless" nature of consciousness behind it.

@areconstructionstory4770 Год назад

Someone needs to tell Don that GTA isn’t a racing game 😂

@paddydiddles4415 9 месяцев назад

Am having doubts about the liver being intelligent like the brain, also multiple separate conscious agents don’t seem to be equivalent to one singular conscious agent

@philosophybabble 9 месяцев назад

When Levin say the liver is "intelligent," they don't mean it in the same way as the brain's intelligence. Here's what they might mean: 1. Adaptability: The liver has an amazing capacity to regenerate. It can grow back even after 75% of its tissue is removed. This adaptability is a form of "biological intelligence." 2. Multifunctional: The liver performs over 500 different functions, including detoxifying harmful substances, producing important proteins, and helping with digestion. Its ability to manage so many roles could be seen as a form of intelligence. 3. Responsive: The liver can change its function based on what's happening in the body. For example, if you eat something sugary, your liver will work to process that sugar. If you consume alcohol, your liver will work hard to detoxify it. This responsiveness to body needs is another form of "intelligence."

@marlan5470 Месяц назад

The sound quality is low and I am trying very hard to not let the small "hiccups" get to me.

@philosophybabble Месяц назад

Very sorry about that.

@HASHHASSIN 8 месяцев назад

If our reality is a simulation, who authored the scenario characterized by life forms engaging in predatory behaviors, where survival is contingent upon hunting, consuming one another, and the emergence of malevolent actions as a consequence?