I had to replace the 80" motor in my road king with an S&S motor. Y'all have been asking - here's the bill and why I went with this particular motor. Bikes: 1996 Road King and 2000 Night Train Camera: Sony a7iii with Rode Wireless Go II
Had the same experience when I bought a 97 FXSTS six years ago. Had riden British for 40 years then decided to finish riding with a Harley. Took some getting used to. Cam bearing took a shit within a year and I replaced the motor with an S&S V80. I did the work myself . I'm no mechanic, just handy with tools. Had some issues with carburetion, ignition, and charging but it's all worked out. Got way more money in it than it's worth. Had some health issues a year and half ago and I've got six doctors looking after me and I told them all . I need 15 more years. I've got turkeys to chase, deer to kill, fish to catch and a motorcycle to run the tires off of. You all be safe out there! E
Friend just installed an S&S motor in his 96 Harley and it idles poorly. You had carb issues and now resolved. What was the problem and how was it resolved. What carbs come on you engine?
Sometimes you have to keep track of what they are charging you for when they change parts in the middle of a project. Years ago we had to change the head gasket on our forklift. During the teardown the tech from the forklift service company brought me the water pump and showed me that the weep hole was discolored, indicating that the seal was starting to leak and asked if we wanted to put a new water pump on. I went to the plant manager and told him and he said to go ahead and replace it. When we got the bill it included the labor charge to remove and install the water pump. The plant manager came to me and asked if the water pump had to be removed to change the head gasket. I told him yes. He called the service company and asked why we were being charged for the labor for removing the old water pump and installing a new one when that was part of the labor charge for the head gasket change. The service company said we had to pay it. The plant manager told the bookkeeper to deduct that labor charge and pay the rest and we never let that company service our forklift again. They sent a bill for that charge every month and it never got paid.
EVO motors are simple to wrench my 1992 flhtc with 92,000 went south on vacation never to return ! I decided to replace my EVO myself it was a learning experience but I saved a lot of money. My motor now has 26,000 mi;es and still runiing strong.
I've been riding harleys since before you were born,,,, most times when you try to take the cheaper, easier course it's going to cost you twice as much,plus all the aggravation and downtime,,,,, i know that outlay stung. but the outcome is that you own one of the best, if not the best motorcycle's with the best replacement motors ever,, wish you many years of enjoyment
Just becouse you've done something before "you were born" doesn't make you an authority. There's been idiots who have been idiots their whole life. So starting off a statement like that, just shows your opinion is idiotic.
My one and only bike is a RK Classic 96” 2007. I ride for 213.735 km and I only change main shaft bearing (I put a Baker one) a primary transmission tensioner and the rear head gaskets, all by myself. I enjoy it, engine goes as new. From Spain 🇪🇸 best regards
That’s a valid point that you make about displacement and the gearbox and clutch. It’s always a trade off reliability vs performance. It makes sense to replace the parts that wear and are not too expensive but the labor costs are $$$ done separately. I would not do anything beyond a stage 2 on a Harley unless it was a bar hopper. I would just get a bike with a bigger engine. One thing you might consider at some point that is not too much is redoing the front forks. Replace the seals oils and springs. It makes a big difference in ride , handling and they eventually will develop leaks so why not.
Hey man! Great content! I miss the other Evo road king videos you took down. Like the video where you gave feedback on what you would’ve done different with the S&S and took us along for a ride. I watched that one every few months. Thanks for the videos!
Just came across this. "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap motorcycle or a free boat" I recently purchased a 2000 Electra Glide Classic. Full garbage barge tourer. Im really not new to motorcycles, but HD is new to me. I knew the MM EFI was a thing and that cam tensioners were a thing. I gambled on the latter as the owner of the garage queen couldnt prove anything had been done to the cam box. But it appeared well maintained and very stock. after 20 years it seemed a reasonable bet to make. Got it home opened the cam box and lost that bet 😀 So now its in the local indie to fix that before it becomes a problem, new tires and some custom seating to suit my fully grown adult stature. Not how I planned this to go...But I was prepared for it.
Love the Evo motor , had mine years got it from a dry state , got a few updates cam ignition carb pipes she's an 89 fltcs I'm in London UK 🇬🇧 , was a club bike as well I'm too old for all that now so ride when I can she's heavy regards Richard
Good videos here sharing your experience with Harleys. My 2012 is still running strong and I love it. I'm thinking about buy a late 90's Evo Fatboy myself. Used bikes are a roll of the dice. Good luck, maybe see you on the road. ✌️
I have a 2011 FLHX and just rebuilt my entire camchest all S&S components their customer service was outstanding when I called didn’t initially get though left a message they called me right back and helped me out. I rebuilt the entire primary put a dark horse compensator and Barnett clutch. Like a new bike it pulls great. I have been eyeballing a new motor vs rebuilding my 96” I’m leaning towards a big bore kit and a dark horse crank and a baker DD7 transmission
I bought a 02 road king for 6000$ with 17,000 miles last year at 28,000 right now still running good, thanks for the numbers less to worry about or just letting it go in the future I’ll just keep running the same one
If you haven’t done it yet, just make sure the cam tensioners are inspected and replaced if worn down. It’s a known problem with the TC-88’s, up to the 2006 model year if I remember correctly. I have an 02 Electra Glide carbureted and did a complete cam chest and lifter upgrade (stage 2) last year at 35k miles and my tensioners were half-worn and cracked. I went with the Fueling hydraulic cam plate and high capacity oil pump components and S&S 510 cams. I had a local custom performance shop do the work, in addition to rebuilding and performance jetting my carb, the entire job with parts and labor was around $1800. It was worth every penny. The old girl has a new life.
Biggest mistake that I ever made was changing my 103 for a crate 111 S&S engine on my 2013 Street Glide .I had excessive oil burning with 0 support from S&S.
I've been back and forth over selling my Yamaha Raider & going back to a HD but loosing that power is a hard one and trying to get a engine that's comparable would end up being a 124ci s&s or bigger from what I've been told
He bought S&S for the warranty. But, He needed to replace the lower gaskets seven months later and learned the warranty covered the gaskets, but not the labor.
Evo's were the last of the really simple to work on Harleys (besides Sportys...). There isn't much you can't do at home with some decent tools and a good shop manual. I think decades into the future the Evo's, Shovels, ect... will still be everywhere since they're pretty easy to keep going and dead reliable when sorted out. The Mil8 to me is a throwaway engine, but the older ones are like working on a lawn mower. On the S&S stuff, I'm sure there are some (100K plus) high mileage engines out there, but I've not run across one yet, but it's easy to find a stock Harley engine (like mine) well into the 6 digit range.
Harley ruined the Sportster when they rubber mounted it. Before that I could have tje entire transmission out in 30 min or less. Then they got rid of the trap door and to do any trans work requires splitting cases! Stupid move HD
@@patdennis3751 yeah, the removal of the trapdoor was curious. I'm assuming they were looking for more dealer work. They claim the case is stronger, but some stout engines have been built using the doors.
@wanaraz Yep, I ran mine well into the 6-figure range pulling a heavy Ultra (heavy rider too...) -- kept waiting for cam bearing, but was obsessive about keeping fresh oil in it, so maybe that helped... gotta love that CV40 carb... sold it, and it is still running... kinda looking for another Evo, albeit in a lighter bike...
Thats awesome man!....so cool to have a brand new s&s engine...worth every penny, except for the dealers 100$ an hour charge but o well dude don't sweat it, you have an amazing bike now, way more character than these new ones
That’s most independent dealers as well. $100 to $115 average labor rate. And believe me with the cost of doing business there not making a killing. Cost big money be in business..
@@nickthinkpainting1978 I operate a small American motorcycle shop in south Jersey and it’s getting harder to operate even at that right now your spot on brother
Ive been riding for the past 2000 years! Before the internal combustion was discovered i rode a horsy and buggy that i painted to look like a motorcycle!
I bought a new 111" S&S engine and a new six speed trans for 6200 dollars and installed both by myself. Very satisfied. Did you say that a Harley dealer recommended that you buy an S&S engine for your bike? My local HD dealer will not even work on a bike other than HD motorcycles. Excellent video. thanks.
@scott rowe maybe...that H.D. dealer won't work on any new Harleys more than 10 years old, and they still have a lot of business. I waited for 2 hours at the parts counter to get a new complete S&S motor for my 46 knuckle...never got waited on, so I went to a guy who operated a machine shop for 'V' twins...any Harley or Ducati. He ordered a 93" knuckle sidewinder, S&S had one in stock, I got it in less than a week, here in Sacramento...and the guy gave me $1,000 off for being a good customer and paying in cash. He'd done all the machine work on my existing 74" knuckle, quite a bit of machine work, to make it 93". So now I have 2 93" motors...one from S&S complete, one 74, built into 93" with all S&S parts. The bike runs great with the original engine, I don't race it or anything, but I can keep up with most of the new Big-Twins. I also have a 72 sporty that is now all aluminum top end from SPUTHE engineering, only the cases are HD (and much modified)...the motor is now actually an 80 cubic inch XR...
@scott rowe I had an 07 Road King in 2010 and the sales lady told me, hey, why don't you trade up and I told her my bike is paid for and it only has 10,000 miles on it. Why would I want to trade up then have a bike payment? She walked away
A lot cheaper to buy the engine then to have it built. I had a 2014 Fatboy Lo with a 103B engine. They didn’t sell a 124” crate for it because it was balanced. I had to buy the Hot Set Up kit and use my crankcase. I also added the Timken bearing. Total cost from Indy for parts, install and tuning was $22,000 Canadian. Bike gad to be torn apart 3 times after the build also. They blamed faulty parts from S&S which I’m not sure I believe. With a crate engine…. the blame-game is pretty easy to determine.
I’m surprised you hadn’t gone to an independent mechanic when you had gotten the quote for the SnS motor. I’m here on the west coast of Canada and the Harley Dealership maintenance prices are crazy. There’s a British wizard here named Andrew Peters. As soon as I was on the hunt for a 2001 and 2002 Indian Spirit, people were mentioning his name. Amazing guy and teacher. He wants you to know your motorcycle. Inspiring and great to see. ONE LOVE from Vancouver Island. 🙏🏼😉🇨🇦
I don't picture a spun cam bearing trashing an evolution engine, unless it damaged the casing or other points of wear are visually evident. If I blow up my 2002 FSXTDI 88twin the bike is going to motorcycle heaven. Before the tensioners could trash my engine, when my bike reaches 10k mileage, I will install an S&S tensioner oil pump kit. I know what I own runs!! My bike is a Timken engine. 2002 was the last year Harley used Timken engine bearings and the 1st year of the more reliable Delphi feul injection. I got the bike with 3200 miles. It's got 8200 miles now. It runs flawlessly.
I read that your having leaking base gaskets from the new S&S motor. You can permanently fix that by installing Hayden spigots.It consists of a spigot that drains oil from the jug to the case, eliminating leaking base gaskets.
I was told the smaller s&s engine is the more reliable. Being your 80 cubic in you bought. I'm going down the road on the s&s 88 cubic in. It's cost me some $$ keeping it going , but it's fun to ride. S&S stop making the 88 but that 80 cubic inch should be fine.
I believe a new Road King comes in about $19,500, so you are still a little ahead in that regard. You can probably put in excess of 200K on that S&S Evo. Jury is still out on the Milwaukee 8. There is a big difference between 107 cu.in. and 80 cu. in. Like you were saying--you like the bike and now you know it will run the way you want it to. That is what counts.
I've got a 1974 FLH (1200) that I've had for many decades, it's got 230K+ on it right now and I still ride it almost daily. Over the years pretty much everything that can be replaced has been except for the cases, frame, forks. It's had a little work done so it's closer to 75hp (factory is like 58hp). It also does high 50s most of the time, but I usually run 65-70 max. Anyway, with a brand new engine, you take care of it and it should have for decades. The stock type engines last far longer then the big inch high compression monsters.
The stock inner cam bearing has always been the weak link for the evo. Also the lifters need replacing every 40k or so. I plan to tackle that on one of my evos soon enough.
I've owned several Sportys and a 46 knuckle...all had the inner cam bearing a 'full compliment' Torrington. I'm surprised Harley ever used a needle bearing in there with less than full bearings...that's a heavily loaded spot...especially the Big-Twin with one bearing supporting 4 valves, well, the outer bearing helps too...I've never had a problem with those.
@@krogersucks45 I’m glad to hear that ,about the lifters. I have 46,000 on my originals. EV-27cam and Torrington bearing were done at 15,000. I don’t want to change them if not necessary. I’ll be doing the clutch soon as that is also original.
111 sweet spot , used to make a 113 that was real torquey , ultima is real qood quality for the price unfortunately if you want a perfect engine they should all be blown apart and blueprinted and reassembled , somtimes there pretty good out box but perfection is $ $ nice rides
I myself has been thinking real hard on doing some engine work on my 2012 dyna FatBob 103...But with its Stage1 setup and with 32K it runs Sweet with its upgraded suspension...Dont fix nothing that aint broke my Dad would say...But at some point down the line i will either go through it with the 106 S@S kit or replace with the T111 S@S crate motor...Only when the engine gets tired and or when i need to replace the cam tensioners at 50 or 60K...
I have a 2009 FatBob and put in the Screaming Eagle Stage 4 kit years ago. Runs like an animal and very reliable. Love it, best money I spent. 110 HP and 100 TQ.
The first bike I built I put a 96in S&S in it! Dam that motor is fast. 92 hp 96lbs torque Dyno out at! $4000.00! Back in 97! Crane HI 4 ignition. 2000.00 trans that ended up not a good one and had to rebuild! Oh well!
I would worry about other worn parts on the bike but at 40,000 miles I think that wouldn’t be an issue. To sit back and calculate the cost is one thing but the way it went down I can understand why you went that way. I have an old RK and don’t know what I’m going to do when the time comes.
I've got 55k on mine. Got it about 23k. I've put maybe $3500-$4000 over 8 years. I do have tow service for bad times but overall it's been cheaper to run this than my payments on the new bike.
I'm not at all knocking the fact that you went with a complete new motor as it is definitely a viable option and will ensure you don't have a failure while riding. That begs my next question. Did you have a failure while riding? If not you did not need to get a new engine. Evo's have known cam shaft bearing issues and if handled can give you a bunch of years and miles of reliable riding. The cost on doing that job is a fraction of buying a new engine. That would be the time to do a cam swap, cam bearing, check over lifters, etc. Again, nothing wrong with what you did but I would have shopped around to ask if someone can do your cam bearing\cam swap to save money.
I literally just went threw this with my 97 dyna. I bought the same engine only threw eBay American motors hell of a deal 3800 for the block and I even call S&S to see if it was legit. My total was 6500 with everything done. Now comes the dreaded break in period.
I am a s&s Carb guy i always put a pingel free Flow Petcock and s&s Carb Plug vacuum Lines ? I found it Cranked anywhere, any altitude The choke awsome , The cv was to much vacuum Pitcock Carburetor . and i Fixed The Reversion or oil going back into carb , i made it look really Good .
Did your factory transmission work or did you have to swap it too? Looking at dropping a T-124 in my ultra limited with a 103 currently. Not sure if it'll make more sense to do that rather then a tire shredder kit. My engine runs perfect as is. I just wanna make my couch go faster.
My father always said the bulk of a car's monetary and driving value was in it's body. So take care of that well and don't sweat what the drive train costs. While maybe not as true with autos anymore, it certainly applies to my King. Your's also it sounds like.
My 2004 heritage just blew an engine, and people telling me I'm an idiot to get a new crate motor. I've been so confused, and not wanting one of the new bikes. Thank you so much for making this video!!!!!! How do you finance something like this???
I replaced my Evo with a S&S V111. It's a monster. No comparison in power. I already had converted to 6 speed. Warranty doubles if S&S verified shop installs it. $7k was the total, much cheaper than a new bike. It's a 98 that I bought in 01.
@@1AXMRDR I got a 98 ultra and a smoking deal on a s&s 124 300 miles… is it streetable? I don’t wanna race or hot rod.. But will be less than a stock rebuild… just don’t wanna regret it..
@@Tacticald556 yeah, it just depends on how far you twist the throttle. Only bad thing I heard about the 124 was if you drop the clutch doing burnouts or something like that too often it can break the drive belt. They run hotter temperature wise because they are bigger, kinda obvious but they are streetable. You may consider getting a 6 speed gearset eventually, you'll have plenty of power to use it. The bike will feel a bit heavier and the engine is a bit wider but nothing you can't get used to.
@@1AXMRDR one bonus…. Have a baker 6 already 🙏🏻🙏🏻…. I’m ok with chain eventually… and beefing up clutch… Just maxing out my small budget.. and need 400$ decompression setup.. I don’t wanna rip..just ride.. But for what I’m paying I can’t rebuild stock
You're not an idiot. Lets say you have 10 years trouble free (which you will) that's about 1300 a year. Would you rent that bike for 1300 a year? Of course.. rent a harley for about 100 a month... anyone would do that. I am glad you kept it on the road.
new bikes about what you paid to have your bike done up how wanted it so thats not bad at all. you basically have a new bike now with even better parts, so not a bad investment at all
I had road king and replaced my engine with a 120 ultima 130 hp … nothing but problems first engine blew on first ride … second engine was always running super hot and leaked oil, had to get a massive starter on bike … never wanted to start on first time… on an on and on … I recognize now certain things from watching these type of videos that my shop that did work probably cause a third of problems with that bike due to many issues of lack of knowledge or skill on their behalf sadly… the bike always ran hot… unless it was cold out my circumstances were 100 % my fault due to lack of researching products and taking a word of mechanic completely trusting in them , once again my fault completely… learned a lot thru this process and would never not do my own research again first!!!
I feel like many people get in this situation. I was just in it with a 900ss Ducati I love, but needs about $9k to be reliable as a daily. I kept the bike and bought a 2004 Road King. (Hey, they're both V twins!) Knowing what you know now, without your RU-vid plans for an EVO series, would you have looked for an $8 to 9K newer lower milage Road King twin cam that had the gear driven cams done, and maybe other features you'd want like, pipe, cam, or bars you liked? There are a ton of bikes out there. I found mine 3+ hours away, but if you are willing to travel or ship (I'd hire someone to check the bike in person if I couldn't be there you have a lot of options. You've then got your old bike to part out if you want or sell as a bulk project for likely much less. Or keep it for an other series. Any thoughts in hindsight?
I’d say my main hindsight, and my new goal for future bikes, is to spend the money and buy really nice, low mileage bikes. With the money I’ve got into the road king I could have found a really really nice all original road king in pristine shape. I just bought a 96 Bad boy that I’m about to release a video on with only 11k original miles, absolutely no mods, and pristine. To answer your exact question, looking back I probably would have just sold the bike as is with the motor issue, and spent the money to get into a different bike. It is cool to have something built from the ground up how I wanted it though.
@@twowheeledcop9029how has the RK been since the new motor? Still enjoying the Bad Boy? I love my FXR, but been chasing gremlins all year at this point. Are you still happy with your motor swap?
It's like hearing myself, i got a 1993 fatboy last year with almost 50.000 km on the clock, i put about 10.000 Km since and last june the cam bearing gave me the finger... .008 of ovalization (don't know if it's the right term, sorry i'm italian) so i have to choose between a new lower case for the old engine or a crate motor... doing some math i guess the crate engine it's a little bit more expensive but in the long run it will be a better choice... now i have to find the money... dammit
Have a question, I have found a 96 inch s&s motor was bought back 13 years ago. In a create with a s&s carb 41. Never been fired up. Unsure if its any good and what's is worth to buy?
i think you should of took your time and got a S&S 111 or the 124 which i would do. and took your time and saved up and took your time got the mandatory up grade on the drive system so it will not blow apart, you would of really had something everyone wish they had... now all you got is a 80inch with a great ignition... i do understand why you did what you did is because lack of money... but now you got a really good bike...
Fixing that cam bearing bore costs about $200. Do that and overhaul it while it’s apart on the bench and you’d have spent less than half of what a new motor set you back.
It doesn’t always work out that way. I put a brand new S&S 124 in my Fatboy. I had nothing but trouble with the motor!!! First off, I had so much metal in my oil bag it looked like metal flake paint. So after S&S tried to get me to say yes to having the shop completely rebuild my “new “ motor. I told them I paid them for a New motor not a rebuilt motor. Finally they saw it my way and after my bike had been down for several months they sent me a new motor. Then it had a screwed up vent system. Every time I backed off the throttle it billowed out huge cloud’s of smoke. So back too the shop it went. (Second motor) I rode my bike maybe 3 to 4 days that complete year. Then it took several more weeks, which turned into months. Getting S&S to stand behind their product was just a pain in the ass.
@@twowheeledcop9029 they fought me for months on giving me a new motor. They did not stand behind the smoking when I let off the throttle. The funny part about that is. S&S would not cover any of the labor to switch out the motor or flushing out my complete oiling system. I had to pay for all that !!!
@@twowheeledcop9029 yeah, I would never 👎 buy S&S again. There are way to many good motors out there today. They all have problems sooner or later. It’s how that back their product that makes the company.
@Swamp Gas Pilot iv never had a problem with a Harley Davidson motor. Once I went to an S&S motor it came with a 130 hp. After they would not stand behind it any more. I took it out of my bike. Tore it apart in my garage and rebuilt it correctly. When I put it back in my bike. I took it to a Dyno to get it perfectly tuned. I walked away with 166hp 170. Torq. Now if I can get 36 more horse power out of it. Why can’t S&S…. Now they are Clowns!!!
Been wanting to get my hands on an s&s Shovelhead generator style engine , But , ay chingao , the cost - definitely would if I could but I can't so I won't. I've heard nothing but good about s&s. No , I don't consider you an idiot for wanting to go with an indie shop rather than the dealership. Happy trails Amigo Stay safe...
yep i dont know why they got a bad rap mines great 88 2nd generation losts of power one of the chopper builders used them all the time i think jessie james plus we wont say about resell harley guys are butt anal about factory motors
I have a 93 Heritage Big Twin and the motor was cammed and has adjustable pushrods with Jim’s Hydrosolids in it when I got it. I took the lifters out just to check them because I heard they could go south on you at around 30,000 miles. That’s when I knew it it was worked on but I didn’t check to see if they had changed the INA cam bearing to a Torrington bearing. I figured they did but I’m not sure so I’m going to find out here shortly. The Jim’s Hydrosolids were like new. Anybody had trouble with the INA cam bearing?
@@doug3805 that’s fine, as you like. But I would go into that thing and see if there was a Torrington bearing b138. You can tell the difference. The good one has little rollers. And the older bad one. Has a cage with rollers. Good luck.
@@MrChopemup I sold it about three months ago. I told the guy I sold it to all about it. The reason I sold it is that it was a little heavy for me (I’m 72), and bought an 04 Sportster. I did a few things to it to suit my taste and really like it. I’ve had three and they are reliable bikes. I just like fooling with Harleys. They just have a character of their own. I had the lifters out of the Heritage and I should have checked then but I didn’t know about the cam bearing at the time, I just knew that it was recommended to check the lifters around thirty thousand miles.
@@doug3805 . About 10 years ago I was working in a shop fixing Harleys in Florida. We had about three 5 gallon paint buckets full of lifters. We bring them to the swap shop in Daytona bike week ,And sell them for like two bucks each. One day I decided to take all the different ones apart. The jims were really bad actually. The big axles were really bad. The power glides seemed OK. It’s all about the rollers . With the jims. If you just drive around, normally the last forever. But if you want to race the bike over 4000 RPMs. They’ll blow up S&s aren’t the best either They’re all hit and miss. You just never know. The harley ones are good. I buy the cheap Chinese ones. And I changed them every two years. And I haven’t had a problem. Johnson’s are the best , good luck with the sportster .!
I blew a cam bearing once, took the jugs off, cleaned out the motor best I could Put a magnet into the low end. All did is put new rings in it. New lifters . Gaskets etc. The things still going 15 years later. Don’t ever bring your bike to a dealer. They’ll always find something I’m not saying yours had the big problem. I’m just saying don’t bring it to a dealer.
@@twowheeledcop9029 thanx 4 the quick reply Bro but i dont have those specs. When i had the top end of my 16 FLSTFBS rebuilt they said keep her under 60 first 100 miles and under 70 next 900 then have at it yet some other mechs had varying opinions so I'm just bouncing it off you
Ya gotta run an Evo with a bad inner cam bearing a LONG time to totally trash a motor. And it woulda made a LOT of noise. Those late Evos had good cases.
The Major thing is find a dealer that will be truthful if what you need they are some that will. Nickel s and dime you for everything To make as much as they can off of you
