Conversation With Sociologist & Cult Specialist Dr. Janja Lalich, Ph.D. (Subtítulos en español) 

This is exactly why I'm a 52 year old college undergrad majoring in psychology. I want to go into a therapy practice and help people who are suffering from the trauma of having been in a cult.

The three thumbs down are people in a cult who dont like being told they are in a cult... #justsaying

I was in the Watchtower cult for over 30 years. I had a best friend who disassociated and whenever I saw her I would shun her. I got out myself 9 months ago and had the opportunity to apologise to her and she accepted my apology. I call this indoctrination being under the Watchtower spell. During the last 3 years before I left I kept having an overwhelming feeling that I was being brainwashed. Shortly after I left I kept wondering if I had done the right thing, but then I started to watch videos like yours and I knew I had done the right thing getting out. I am still healing but I admit I am angry with this cult because I made decisions that cost me and my children dearly and it was all based on lies. I don't take kindly to being lied to. I agree with others that you do excellent interviews and I always watch them. Thank you.

One day at at a time ,,,, I'm still dealing daily. it was a double hit for me loosing my wife to cancer while exiting dealing with the grief and the evaluating how all the mind control and the long lasting threads from the WT but have made great progress. So these videos are therapy.

Look at her face when Fifth says..... three years out...... only 3 years !!!!! That was a compliment to you Fifth!

Fifth and Dr. Lalich, THANK YOU for this excellent interview!! Dr. Lalich has made absolutely priceless contributions to our understanding of cults, cult leaders, and the effects of cults on members and those who care about them. I cannot thank her enough - her years of dedication and hard work continue to help more people than she will ever know. I am not a cult specialist, but I've worked with cult survivors - without the work of Dr. Lalich and Dr. Singer, I'm sure I would have been quite in the dark all these years! THANK YOU BOTH!!

I like that you don't seem like an angry ex JW, as many are. I'm sure there is some anger there towards tge WT but it's nice that it doesn't dominate you. I started finding reasons to leave three years ago as well. The great awakening is real and it's happening. Anyway, great interview.

WOW!!!! THAT WAS POWERFUL!! ONE OF THE BEST INTERVIEWS I'VE EVER HEARD! THANK YOU CLIFF! I'M PROUD OF YOU BRO! MUCH LOVE!

The similarities of this woman's previous organization and the Watchtower are chilling. All cults seem to be the same.

Yes, "shunning is a hallmark of a cult." I'd like to go door to door and apologize to everyone I tried to recruit but that's not practical. I was driving around today and was very distressed when I drove into areas where I went door to door, up and down hills and streets. Yuck!

I'm so glad Dr Lalich has included apologizing once we wake up to any we may have hurt. It's healing for both sides and really important to do. Really important for mental health that exJWs acknowledge what was and what wasn't. Sometimes it may be impossible to move forward without doing the compassionate thing by apologizing where it is appropriate to do.

Oh wow. That was the same month I woke up too. I was also a born in. Thank you for the videos 5th. It’s so helpful to see others who understand what happened and are able to give really valuable advice on moving forward in a healthy way.

Fifth this is one of your best interviews (IMHO). So many thoughts. My heart truly goes out to those who haven't the means to experience the ex-JW activist community. When I first came across these videos years ago, I thought the idea of "activism" was in a word corny. However, listening to the voices of folks from different backgrounds, helped me realize "activism" is a necessary component on the road to healing.

*I love, Love LOVE Dr. Lalich.* ❣️ I find her to be brilliant, yet so down to earth. This was a great interview. *You will always have my vote for class president.*

You always have wonderful guests. Great choice of guest, congratulations!

OUTSTANDING INTERVIEW! 🏆 I needed all of this knowledge!..Going to visit Dr. Lalich's website now! Fifth, thanks for all that you do in the community! ❤🙏

I admire your courage and strength Cliff. You are truly free. You know longer belong to the organization. I am inactive. Still have that label as a JW. I will never truly be free until my mother passes on. I am fearful of being shunned and can't leave or disassociate myself.

This is so excellent Fifth! Thanks very much to Dr Lalich. As you say, very thought provoking. Has brought me to tears as I confront, yet again, the awful impact this religion has had on my life.

Great interview. It was only last year that I realized I was in a cult. I have been out since 2003 as a fader. I was a born in. Mom is still in. She will die as a witness. I am comfortable with her doing so. She likes the sense of belonging that organization gives. I have no desire to convince her she is wrong in her beliefs.

It is so interesting how trauma effects people so universally. I was never in a cult, but I was intimately betrayed and the triggers and reminders are the same

Love your videos. I regret getting baptized at 18. Doing it to please my parents was a huge mistake!!!

Thank you, Cliff! You are doing a much-needed service.

@ExJW_Fifth Dr. Janja Lalich is a great guest --- very interesting stories of her own indoctrination! She sounds like a wonderful resource for ex-cult members. "You're in a cult to take care of the leader[s]" is a simple yet profound truth. Thanks, Dr. Lalich! You are a precious soul and an awesome resource for folks setting themselves free of cult-think. I'm an exjw free since 2000 after being born-in. I had years of therapy with an excellent therapist in Canada.

That was a priceless hour of healing and insight. Thank You so much, Fifth and your guest Dr Janja Lalich. The confirmation and exposing of the very real emotions and consequences we feel in the process of leaving and long after in mine and many others are put into perspective by this thoughtful interview. The questions were well thought out and the Dr's answers were right on point. Thank you very much!

Wow! Only three years out! YOU are more awesome than I even thought! You have been of great encouragement to me not to give up, and it seems I WOKE up around the same time as you. You give me even more hope, and do take care of yourself. Thanks!

I remember my first little joyous moments after getting out. Decorating for Christmas! I remember feeling a little guilty and then I stood back and looked at what I created! Christmas is a form of human creativity to me. Just having more time for myself!

It would be a wonderful thing if those ones that are locked in The JW cult and all the others would sit down and watch this video but that is wishful thinking on my part , won't never happen. This information is good for so many different areas of society. Like the individuals starting a business and pondering the correct way to hire and manage a work force , respecting human rights and treating people as them being there on person. It is very complex these days.

Thanks for this excellent interview and for making me aware of Dr. Lalich and her expertise. Former member, now highly regarded sociologist studying cults - that’s extraordinary.

Muchas gracias por subir videos de tan alta calidad... hace no mucho comencé aquí , e Buenos Aires , Argentina , la carrera de psicología.. con la ayuda de la Divinidad podré ayudar a las víctimas de sectas de alto control mental . Salí y volví a entrar en la Organización varias veces.. no sabía lo que me ocurría... hasta que gracias a internet comprendí que somos muchas las víctimas de esta secta y que las experiencias se parecen y se multiplican . Seguí adelante... Son muchos los que están despertando.

Thank you Fifth, and Dr. Lalich. Really enjoyed this video.

I loved it when you smiled, Ciff! It was a precious moment to share when Janja shared her joy to just have a bowl of popcorn and watch football! Watch the Oscars! You both smiled! You connected. .... Now that was a Kodak moment... Right? Now, you can watch fireworks! go to a movie on a Tuesday night! sleep in on a Saturday. Can you believe it? It's the simple things that make us happy. "Cheers!" (Clink) (PS, you ARE doing amazingly well, take care of yourself! hugs!) Karin

Thank you for an excellent interview! I was born in, just recently out and I'll go through periods where I just have to binge RU-vid videos to combat the indoctrination growing up. I know I made the right decision for me, my daughters, but there is a lot to learn and grow as a person when leaving a cult. The videos and activitism from exjws saves lives! Thank you!

THANK YOU CLIFF!!!! If it weren’t for you i would’ve never woken up!

This video was awesome and it was needed for myself and I'm sure many

Great discussion. So true, being a born in I couldn't even imagine another way of life.

Fifth I am so glad you are doing these interviews. I appreciate everything you do. I would like to tell you my story

I love your videos. Very professional and helps to process and heal.

Gracias por subtitularla.todos debimos empezar de 0 pero se puede.Excelente.salufos desde Argentina

Thanks to you both. Very helpful ideas for ex-JW's, Mormons, Amish etc. Waiting awhile before doing activism seems very wise. Healing takes time. Our immediate family came out of watchtower fairy land together and we are so thankful for it. Shunning by the huge 'family' I left is a small price to pay, so that our son doesn't grow up in that high control religion.

Thank you so much for sharing, Fifth and Dr. Lalich. This was so insightful. I’m a therapist in Chicago who works with people who have left religion/cults. This work is so needed but not yet treated with the urgency it deserves in our field. Some people don’t even know their trauma is partly rooted in their cult experiences because cult/religious harm isn’t acknowledged in the mainstream. Slowly but surely we’re making it happen.

¡Muchísimas gracias Fifth! Excelente material, ideas y consejos. Realmente ha sido una entrevista muuy suculenta. Especialmente, gracias por tomarte la molestia de subtitularlo en español, la verdad me encantan tus vídeos (la entrevista a Barbara Anderson es un documento inapreciable!), y suelo activar los subtitulos generados automaticamente para leer a la vez que escucho; pero me cuesta ya que el inglés no es mi idioma... Así que ¡sigue adelante! Tu labor es buenísima, y estás ayudando a mucha gente. Te envío un fuerte abrazo!

I had a great experience as a child. All the parents came in at the same time, had kids and we had a great loving fun community. When you get a little older though you start figuring out things like hey if gandma dies now she'll be resurrected and maybe be more likely to accept Jehovah but if she lives a little longer God will kill her at Armageddon then she's gone for good. After that you start to understand how powerful and passive agressive their control is. Then you start feeling like everyone in town is watching you. Then questions happen and you either dig in and beg the question or allow the cracks begin to grow. My JW friends, it's so much better, so much more real on the outside. You just won't see it till you disconnect from the indoctrination a bit.

Thank you for all you do , I’m in healing process and my heart goes out to you, hugs, your videos are healing❤️

Good Job Cliff I think that having Dr Lalich on your channel is helping people to see that cults go beyond religion is a powerful tool to help see that they may well be in a cult and be totally unaware of it. Thinking in terms of a cult being just religious is being blind to the dangers of cults. Thanks for allowing her to speak and having insightful questions and well researched comments.

I always look forward to your videos and once again i found this one very helpful and insightful. Thanks for being one of those that 'Woke ' me up. Just yesterday i was chatting to a non Witness friend who for years had told me i was being brainwashed , she said she always struggled to understand how someone like me - who is 'reasonably intelligent' could get sucked into a cult and defend it the way i did. This video has just helped explain everything - not all cult members are weak minded. Its just a stigma - and in my case i was born into it (4th generation) and thats all i knew

Yes, they want the best and brightest. Narccicist and religious narccicist target the smartest and some of the brightest.

Excellent interview and information Cliff. I’m so thankful for the content you provide.

I know of Dr J Lalich, she is the one for recruited exjws

We can hear this info over and over but it still needs to be heard again. Dr. Lalich is a great speaker. I also am a fan of your videos.

This was so powerful. I'm going to watch it again because there are so many great insights in this interview, I don't want to miss any of it.

I always enjoy the professionalism of your interviews, Cliff. You stay focused, and ask all the right questions. Thank you!

What a fantastic interview, so full of substance. Thank you both for sharing your experiences and knowledge. Breaking the silence upon what happens in these awful organizations is so fundamental for the world to know the scale of abuse, especially against children which are the most vulnerable. It is incredibly heartbreaking! Under the point-of-view of impunity, it is infuriating. The so called religious institutions must be held accountable for the horrors they promote. They are the ones who impose so much guilty and condemnation into their followers when they are the ones which break all the rules of ethics, moral, and decency. It is so inhumane what they do. It is so cruel and criminal.

❓🤔 I realize that practically speaking this wouldn’t do nearly as much to promote public awareness of the JW cult *but* it could create awareness in communities with high pioneer foot traffic. What if ex-JW’s who knew of a neighborhood frequented by JW pioneers were to mail out fliers/pamphlets explaining the dangers of the JW cult. That would essentially be like “poisoning the waters” (waters meaning neighborhoods) to where JW pioneers would eventually be powerless to convert anyone in that area once enough neighbors had read the ex-JW literature or shared it with their neighbors who hadn’t. Thoughts? ❓❓

I used dr. L's website for my paper on cults! One of the Greatest experts!!

This was an excellent interview. I could relate to so many things that were discussed. Please keep up the good work Fifth.

Muchas gracias Cliff nuevamente y a la Dra Lalich , lo terminé de ver y me encantó!! Lo voy a compartir con dos personas que estoy ayudando a salirse !!! Saque apuntes muy importantes !! La parte de la ELECCION LIMITADA muy bien explicado !! Así mismo es !!! Y la última parte (aunque todo estuvo sin desperdicio) quiero resaltar lo último de la libertad y hasta las cosas más pequeñas uno las disfruta !!! Y el pensar por uno mismo es increíble y ser buena gente y tomar buenas decisiones por uno mismo es fascinante !!! Adelante cliff estás haciendo algo increíble y eras joven tienes una vida por delante sin duda la vida te llenará de bendiciones y siempre piensa que las experiencias son por algo y como dijo alguien “ en una noche muy oscura es cuando se ven mejor las estrellas brillando” . Te entiendo perfectamente tus sentimientos porque nací y viví 46 años de mi vida y hace tres años también me salí !!! Muchos saludos !!!

Loving this! Need more therapy videos like this one!

At around 40 min. Where it was discussed about just leaving and moving on, i tried that. I lost pretty much all my so called friendships but managed to keep most of my family. At least i could talk to them and not be shunned as i was never disfellowshipped. However still had the occasional "what if " moments and scary thoughts of being punished by God! But they are reaching extra deep to punish all faders! 18 years later ive just started to really research and unravel things,because now the family is starting now to lovingly shun me into coming back! I don't recommend just fading without doing full reasearch and getting some form of counseling. My world just got turned upside down again. Its just amazing of the grip the watchtower organization has over its members and still continues to punish all those who left. Couldn't they just one more time just leave it to Jehovah to judge and do the punishing!?

Thank you for all your hard work and the wonderful information.

This information is educational, healing, supportive and so necessary in our world today, love Dr Janjah. Thank you!

Thank you for the very informative interview Fifth. I wish there were more cult specialists out there that could help so many of us that have been affected.

Thank you, wonderful interview 💙

Thank you Fifth and Janja for educating the public about cults. If I knew this information, I would never have joined the Jehovah's Witnesses. I was a JW for 16 years and faded 17 years ago.

So helpful....excellent , thank you!

Wonderful work!!!! This really helps to understand the cult. Thanks for doing this!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Excellent interview. Thanks Cliff for posting this. She had some excellent jewels of information. God bless both of y’all

Thanks for the video Fifth! And thanks a lot for spanish subs.!

Fantastic interview! You have a real knack for interviewing people! Well researched and great questions. You are such an important asset to our community!

Fifth gracias por esta entrevista, muy interesante y seguro ayudará a muchos hermanos que están despiertos o en el proceso de salir. No es fácil pero la felicidad inmensa de ser libre en cada paso que se da en la vida vale todas las luchas posibles. También es importante no ser un satélite de la organización después de salir, no es bueno obsesionarse con ellos, pero si repudiar y denunciar al Cuerpo Gobernante y sus abusos. Saludos amigo desde Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Another great interview. Thanks!

Thanks so much for you video Cliff , for me it’s very important see that these emotional traumas need a process. I need to find the book in spanish.

Hey Fifth. This was great!

Being in a cult or high control religion that uses the Bible as its backing and then named their selves after God just makes things much harder. When you leave it makes you feel like you are leaving Jehovah God.

that distress of not being able to talk to some of my kids is what led me to a sucidal mindset for many months and then ultimately my decision to get out of the cult. it took being shown the court cases about the molestaions and the incorrect doctrines. it took a couple months of constant researching and waking up. it was by chance that someone found me on youtube and reached out to me. but i was at a point where i was making a decision between my children and God, that is how it felt. and I said I AM DONE!!! and left.

Great interview! I really appreciate you and your activism, Cliff. Do take care of yourself. You seem very kind and sometimes it's clear that others' experiences do affect you. Thank you 😊

Such an amazing interview. Thank you!

I feel that Cliff’s revelation about his own struggle with being an Activist was very honest and will hit a chord with so many of his viewers. As an ex JW I feel mixed feelings after watching Activist videos. Great to see that I’m not ‘alone’ and it’s a great way of affirming my reasons for being there in the first place and then getting out. However sometimes increased self awareness and understanding can simply be more sickening as we better appreciate the sadness or badness of something. I suppose it’s like taking certain life saving medication etc. Better to experience the bitter pill to get to a better end. Well here’s hoping :-)....

loved this video and your guest so so much - many thanks to both

I love what you and other ex-Jw's are doing. I wish I would've known you when I left the organization. I was born and raised as a JW and I never thought I'd not be one. I thank God for calling me out of this powerful cult. In fact it was the literature and teachings of the organization that showed me it wasn't the truth and that I needed to leave. That along with the years of abuse and persecution I endured. It is now my goal to be an activist and help others wake up and get out!!! The JW organization is crumbling and its collapse is inevitable. They will need us to help them survive and live in the real world when that happens.

Thank you thank you thank you both for sharing this with everyone 💙💚💜

Thank you soooooo much!

Gracias por el vídeo me gustó mucho bien explicado. Bendiciones.

Thank you, brother Fifth, you doing more than wonderful on your videos, they are very helpful to so many.

Mainly its an inquiry into the mysterious unknown that gives rise to Cults and Religious concepts ~~~If we could get sold provable answers that the inquiring mind seeks ~~~~cults would disappear overnight ...fear of death and Non-existence would have no hold

How to you separate what is a cult to an organization that is just organized to accomplish goals? I appreciate the "Move-On" movement with what they are trying to accomplish. I participated in some rallies. (I am PIPOMO yet trying to find a way to live life- anything resembling living life). How do you keep healthy boundaries? Humans, cultures and society tend to organize to accomplish goals with purposeful activity that includes interacting. It seems everything could be seen as a cult, even the family. I see "humans" getting into "flocks", "herds",or "packs" because we tend to be a social entity. It gets to the questions- What is it to be human? What are we to do and what is the best way of being as human creatures? How do we live to best self actualize? Example: If you are an environmentalist, there are certain expectations about how to view the earth and the best way to be the caretakers so future generations can enjoy the planet. When we become aware, we act or/an create laws or regulations to protect the environment. Or we do not run up and hug KKK members or neo- Nazis as if they are our best friends. Kindness have caused some to get out of such groups. There is a great book written by someone who became a white supremist- kindness motivated him to change. In religions, history is full of situations where people are tortured, killed, or ostracized due to a belief system whether it due to a doctrine such as trinity or the case in the Scarlet Letter- an unwed mother. We were taught to trust and rely on (Jehovah) so one of the worst affect is a dependency need- especially when one pioneers. Life has always been stressful so some of the issues are compounded by wanting or trying to leave. I know TTATT- it is freeing not to see individuals as "not OK" not saved or as worldly people and someone that we have to present "the truth" to .

Great interview! Dr. Lalich might (but probably not) be surprised to know that they do (try to) control what kind of car you own. It must be a sensible 4 door sedan, or better yet a minivan! If not you should be prepared for dirty looks from pioneers at the meetings for service. We've even heard comments suggesting that owning a 2 door vehicle means you've got one foot out of "the truth"! -But that is by no means all I got from this, there was a lot of good information. Some things I haven't even thought about yet. I look forward to reading her book.

Thank you thank you thank you ExJW Fifth. Love your channel as well. You are helping so many of us ...... Keep up the good work . A lot of JWs waking up. God bless you! You’re guests are great.

I could listen to this woman all day. I am the daughter of narcissistic parents. There is so much overlap between cult indoctrination and narcissistic parenting.

Gracias,Fifth por ésta serie de vídeos, traducidos al español,estoy tan.... desepcionada y la verdad estoy pensando cómo salirme y sacar a mi familia de ahí, creo que si existe Dios, me dará la salida,yo empecé a despertar cuando vi el vídeo de la Real comisión Australiana, creo fue un quiebre en la organización, muchas personas testigos lo vieron y no creo pasó desapercibido, fue algo vergonzoso, juró, mintió y admitió que son ..un humano más y como cualquiera de nosotros, solo que,... con aires de grandeza y poca humildad.saludos desde Uruguay.tengo 51años y nací dentro de ése entorno.asi que imagínate lo difícil que es para mí.

My immediate family not JW, Came in at 18, left at around 39, I'm 53 today and is now Woke yet still feeling the aftermath.

I needed this 👍👍👍👍✊

Exelente Fifth me encantó y me ayudó mucho a pensar en como dejamos que otros piensen por nosotros me gusto mucho el tema de la disonacia cognitivas. Eso es lo que logran esas enseñanzas sectarias !!!wue bueno ser libres!!! Gracias hermano un abrazote

Excellent. interview.

Muchas gracias

Hola amigo excelente trabajo

This really helped reframe the damage done by WT. One point worth mentioning. Understand that we were told over & over not to read self-help books & that the bible is all we need if we are depressed or suffering. So when someone leaves the last thing they think of is getting therapy to help deprogram. Therapists are viewed as dangerous people.

They actually do planted in your mind that certain car would be materialistic. Definitely your free will is alter, because the public speaking & there magazine program you to the way you should live. Being one of JW , i believe to a point. I could never shun anyone or not be a part of my Family. I really was indoctrinated to a point, because I stop my Education in 1975. As I continue with the JW & had children I realized that I wouldn't deprived my children of there being able to continue there education. I couldn't get with the shunning, I could never shun my own, I only had one out of 3 to get Baptized. Now we're all out, what a Blessing. Being control by other is not of God. DefInitely one of the miserable time of my life. Thanks Fifth & Dr. Lalich will get the book for my daughter & I. I really needed y'all, just for my soul, my daughter felt that she didn't need anything, I notice she have social connection. Will send her this video. Thanks keep them coming.

I had no idea that a political cult was that brutal. Good information.

I'm so glad that my JW parents don't shun me or my brothers!! I was df'd back in 1985-86, for the 3rd time. I still "popped in" on them over the years & allowed them to be in my children's lives, all those years. Now it's 2019 & I moved back in with them due to their declining health & ages. When my mom got into a serious car wreck, my dad had "one foot in the grave"; my non-witness Aunt asked the elders if they or someone else in the congregation could provide steady care for them & was told, "No, that's not their area of responsibility". So, when we told them that I was moving in & taking care of them, they had no objections about it. Imagine that!!! So, I happen to be one of the lucky ones, here & I am grateful for my parents for not letting the Borg Society interfere!!

What an excellent interview!