Good video my friend. By the way, could you solve my doubt about which was the largest Prosauropodiform or Sauropodiform on record from the Triassic Period. Either the early, middle or late.
@TheVividen I would love your reaction / take on Max Hawthornes most recent study on Megalodon! It show some good evidence & insight on the lifestyle of this fish! It’s a video here on RU-vid. He’s done research on Llesiosaur / Pliosaur locomotion & the evolution of Plesiosaur necks.
Your analysis is poor. These animals are used to 22% oxygen levels and would have to adapt to 12% oxygen levels a 50% cut (around Everest base camp level oxygen) over night. And as mammals have a pretty inefficient cardiovascular system anyway it’s reasonable to assume that all the very large mammals wouldn’t make it more then maybe a few weeks. Definitely not reproducing. Maybe the smaller ones could? But even smilodon would probably have been useless at 12% oxygen levels, a tired, out of breath cat that has a hard time walking in a straight line basically.
Also I had a feeling the Daedon would take it. Like pigs are super adaptable in most ecosystems and give humans trouble even today. The diverse nature of their size, intelligence and adaptability only compliments them. And other than the Miocene and when we get to the big boy dinosaur domination eras of Jurassic and Cretaceous. I really don’t see another animal being as successful as essentially a super pig loool
Daeodon wasn't terribly intelligent as far as mammals go, but it certainly outsmarts any animal from the Triassic, with the possible exception of small theropod dinosaurs.
@@adriani9432 when looking at most of earths prehistory I honestly think until we get to into the proper and more recent history of the cenzoic they’re pretty damn smart for most life on earth. Crocodilians. Dinosaurs. And even some birds having an orange sized brain is pretty impressive for them and they tend to be the most common species that could pose a threat in this regard. Again taking. The LONG view of it. Not in more specific eras
I wonder what proven habitat conquerors would fare? Pigs, dogs, coyotes, cats and bears would probably take over and then radiate to take up new niches. Hell, throw in a Bullfrog and see what happens 😂
@@DzinkyDzink I think the smaller successful mammal families such as rodents (herbivores) and mustelids (carnivores) would devastate the Triassic ecosystem, providing climate (temps) and atmosphere (O2 content) wouldn't be a significant hindrance. They'd likely quickly evolve and take over niches never previously occupied.
Many wouldn't make it, but there was Barinasuchus, a Cenozoic crocodylomorph which was basically a re-evolved version of Triassic apex predators. It would provide direct competition for the Rauisuchians.
That's the catch, modern mammals may prove so effecient that they would wreck existing ecosystems and reform those around themselves. You don't need a 7 tonn T-Rex to hunt Wildebeast when all the Trikes went extinct.
So, mammals seem like they’re doing well. Does make me worried about how much of a menace the Cretaceous will be though, lol. Especially with T. rex around. Good video. 10/10. Can’t wait to see what comes next.
Not just t.rex, we can also mention an angry trike (which would be a nightmare even for an adult rex) But im pretty sure that mammals like the paleoloxodon or the Daedon can enjoy the enviroment
@@adriani9432would they? We now know that pack hunting wasn't incredibly likely though, so the role they'd assume would be a small, solitary carnivore, I'm assuming competing against animals like Raccoons and Possums
Wonder how some Devonian armored fish and sharks would fare in Mesozoic waters, that could be another cool video. Also any video about carboniferous insects would be rad!
This is an interesting concept In palaeo fans communities there are two completly and extreme postures, the ones who think cenozoic mammals are completely crushed and swept away by any Mezosoic "reptilian" creature because the Mezosoic was the age of the "big, angry killing machines" with superior features and on the other hand the ones who think that mammals are able to outcompete, overcame, over...all, the dinosaurs because mammals are "smarter" and "more active", those persons think that a wolf pack is able to take down medium to big sauropods.
a fun project. I think you underestimate the heat effect in nearly all cases; personally I'd drop nearly all a number, especially as unfamiliar food &/or pathogens could always turn out to be disastrous, but I'm still pleased to watch your takes
In my unprofessional opinion mammals would do best in the triassic. The jurassic and cretaceous will be harder simply due to the size of the dinosaurs.
Honestly, what about orcas? I dare say that you could drop 1000 orcas in any ocean throughout earth’s history which has enough food to sustain them, and orcas would absolutely dominate, or at the very least be a serious contender for top predator. A decent sized pod of orcas would be a match for any large marine predator that has ever lived.
The only animals that get a 10 in basically any era you drop them in are Orcas, Titanosaurs (such as Argentinasaurus), and Humans. Orcas with their team strategies on top of already being formidable hunters, titanosaurs being enormous very powerful land animals which were still in a time where the largest land predators to ever walk the earth existed, and humans, being the most intelligent and adaptable species on the planet. Even if you dropped 1000 Neanderthals instead of 1000 modern humans, they would easily survive and thrive, being an active threat to every other species on the planet.
Orca kill megalodon so yes orca can survive and orca is a big predator too and they hunt in pack with intelegence orca can be a treat to any Big predator in ocean
@@corneliusmcmuffin3256 yeah, orcas dominate, the only time periods where they woud have something to fear would be the neogene (megalodon and livyatan) and late triassic (himalayasaurus, shonisaurus, aust collosus potentially being a macropredator and so much fricking more, like, it's actually insane how Panthalassa was absolutely crowded with giant apex predators) but yeah, everything else is fine, in the jurassic liopleurodon and other large pliosaurs stand no chance against a full pod of orcas, a mosasaur is barelly bigger than a bull orca and would be easy work, in the paleogene basilosaurus woudn't be that much of a threat, and even the largest buzzsaw sharks of the paleozoic would stand absolutely ZERO chance against a full pod of orcas
Awesome! Can’t wait to see more. Great breakdown vividen the Triassic is always underrated as a geographical playground for the evergoing fight which is ecological dominance.
fr triassic is underrated as fuck, there should be 2 games, one with cretaceous and jurassic land animals for dino lovers, and one that's a realistic triassic landscape
Amazing video! The research you put into these videos is absolutely amazing, you are among some of the best paleontological channels on this app and i say that with 101% certainty 😊. Your amazing bro 😄
@@TheVividen 😧bro... seriously, haha make a video to deny the fallacies and hoaxes of several videos here on RU-vid about the differences between the T rex and the elephant palaexodon, because they put wrong numbers about the largest T rex, they put very speculative measurements with little evidence about the elephant, hahah and in the thumbnail they put the T rex as absolutely small... Hhaahhah this F#Ck is misleading. 👍I used Google Translator.
@@TheVividen 😧bro... seriously, haha make a video to deny the fallacies and hoaxes of several videos here on RU-vid about the differences between the T rex and the elephant palaexodon, because they put wrong numbers about the largest T rex, they put very speculative measurements with little evidence about the elephant, hahah and in the thumbnail they put the T rex as absolutely small... Hhaahhah this F#Ck is misleading. 👍I used Google Translator.
@@christianvaixco196At some point I plan on making a Thrive or Eaten Alive episode where it's examining various probiscidean species and how they would fare in Hell Creek. Palaeoloxodon would be a part of that
@@xanshen9011 Mammals already dominate sharks and pliosaurs/mosasaurs are far smaller than the largest aquatic mammalian carnivores (Livyatan Sperm whale Perucetus) and Basilosaurus is a about the size of the biggest mosasaurids).
One mammal I know would dominate the prehistoric sea is a family of orcas. Those things have a nice balance of intellect, size, and strength--being far smarter than any prehistoric sea creature that we know of.
Well of course it’s easy to exercise that when your one of the largest creatures to live on earth with the only animals that are bigger then u are whales
@Dr.Ian-Plect Orcas, unlike Ichthyosaurs, hunt and move in pods, and despite their considerably smaller size they are way faster and more agile. Orcas have been reported to hunt humpback whales and even blue whales, so preying on animals as big as Shonisaurus wouldn't be completely unlikely. Their superior speed, stamina, numbers and intelligence could overwhelm a single specimen of those Ichthyosaurs. The biggest problem for orcas would be the much warmer waters of the Triassic, since these animals seem to prefer colder environments.
this is by far one of the best videos you have done so far, its pretty accurate and not biased ( as in saying mammals would be decimated by anything from the Mesozoic) do you think amphicyon giganteus, Megalania, Gigantopithecus, cave bears and the marsupial lion would do well during the Triassic?
The Triassic was a free for all since Dinos didn’t have a stronghold yet. Bigger mammals would definitely fair better The Jurassic and Cretaceous on the other hand…..
Thank you so much for making this into a series! What a wonderful episode this was to kick things off :) I thought the Paraceratherium would probably do very well due to it's large size in the Triassic as you mentioned Surprised you included Megaloceros as I didn't expect it's inclusion but that was a welcome surprise definitely think it'd be a challenge with the heat but it's speed would be very useful. Glad the Smilodon was doing fairly well along with the Columbian mammoth although their long gestation and growth time for the babies as you mentioned would be a serious problem for the latter. The Daeodon doing so well was cool and I half wonder how all these introduced mammals would do interacting with one another in the Triassic Smilodon vs Daeodon!? I can't wait to see the Jurassic and Cretaceous episodes next :D I hope the Arctodus might make an appearance if possible but if not no worries would still love to see how the current roster would fare in later time periods especially the Smilodon, Paraceratherium and Columbian mammoth!
I'm glad you liked it! I'm planning on taking the same ten animals for the subsequent episodes, yes, but I'm also thinking of doing spinoffs (like taking animals like Palaeoloxodon from Asia and putting it into Hell Creek)
I would argue that predatory whales would have an enourmous advantage over reptilian predators based on the endurance. Long chase is the name of the game in the deep waters and mammalian endurance exceeds reptilian by miles(literally). Also the inteligence factor plays a huge role for predators with all modrlern mammals showing an upward trend in its growth.
I am so glad to have found this channel. Truly a hidden gem. I absolutely loved the vid. Omw to binge everything. Your content is very informative and fun. This video has the potential to be the start of a great series. God bless you man. 🎉
What would the hunting strategy be for the "smaller" ichthyosaurs on Perucetus? As far as their predatory prowess goes most of the evidence still suggests they targeted animals smaller than themselves and while not exactly well defended the conical teeth and thin snouts would probably have a hard time digging into a giant, round, fatty beast. And in terms of physical strength both sets of giants could do massive damage if they ever struck each other, though you're right the reptiles have an advantage due to their speed. A whack from the tail of a 90 ton sausage though would probably break some thing or multiple things in the reptiles. Also question: is each mammal also competing with each other or are they isolated scenarios? Spawning Livyatan on Perucetus for example drops the numbers even further but may also decrease ichthyosaur population since the sperm whale would be eating them too.
i hope kelenken, arctotherium, megistotherium, thylacoleo, homotherium, panthera atrox,palaeoloxodon, elasmotherium will be featured in the next episode. or maybe some of them great video as always can’t wait for the next episode of this topic.
Absolutely great episode on a very immersive topic. You need a wide background in paleozoology and paleobotany to dare attempt something of this scope and do it justice, which you have. That's why I like your channel, you work on topics few others tackle. Can't imagine the amount of research you did for this series and can't wait for the next installment!
Thank you! That's very gratifying to hear. I worked on the research for this episode for a long time, and I'm excited to eventually produce the rest of the series!
When do you think your video about the biggest predator of all time will come out? It gives me the same vibes as Endgame did but in prehistory version. Oh and can you make a video speculating about how Megaraptorans could hunt? It’s one of the most underrated groups of theropods and they are very unique since they hunt with their hands which is something not seen in other groups of theropods expect maybe Spinosaurids.
We're hoping for February/March, but that's very tentative. It takes a while to hear back from researchers since there's so much going on! A megaraptoran video would be fun as well. I've been meaning to make one for a while and just need to find a time to put it in the queue!
I was struggling to understand why anyone would say that a mammal like Hyaenodon Gigas was more closely related to "Penguins"(a bird) than it was to another mammal like a Hyaena. I had to go back and put on closed captions to see that you actually said "Pangolins" and not "Penguins" to realize that what I was hearing wasn't completely mad.
I think the interesting thing about these large mammals is some of them were not used to dealing with predators around their size or were bigger than usual.
I feel like that Deodon would also survive in the Cretaceous Period maybe like it would probably kind of disguise itself like it’s my name its own business, and it would snatch a young triceratops.
This is presently one of my all time favourite videos. Oh, RU-vid Algorithm, raise up this grand content which subverts traditional Dinosaur V Mammal precepts! Praise be the Vividen!
Id recon Fasolasuchus could take on Megatherium, its no joke. Powerful bite, strong armour and huge size being 10 metres long, powerful claws too and decent intelligence. I think Fasolasuchus could handle the sloth if it could very likely take prosauropods.
This is fun, will see one of Mesozoic creatures in the Cenozoic? I would like to see how disruptive large predatorial Theropods would have been in the Cenozoic eras.
Ya'know, this could be used to make a pretty cool spec-evo series. Though maybe add at least one or a few more cenozoic animals to the list, like Barinasuchus should DEFINITELY be one of them, maybe some other south american carnivores like sparassodonts and terror birds, perhaps even purusaurus. Could also be interesting to add marsupial predators like Thylacoleo, or perhaps New Zealand's famous giant eagle? Edit: if you're adding terror birds, then I HIGHLY recommend adding Kelenken to the list. Also, the giant shark megalodon. Edit #2: I have one more suggestion to make, add Basilosaurus to the list.
Damn this is a great video! In the Triassic mammals seem to be doing very well! However, I have a feeling from here on out that is a trend thats going to fall off a very large cliff once we hit the Jurassic...
One thing you forgot to consider is the atmosphere composition. While it wouldn't kill them outright like people tend to think it ours would giant Dinosaurs, it would at least be a hinderance during most of the triassic. The early and mid triassic oxygen low and generally high CO2 levels could give the large mammals a headache, literally and figuratively. They would be out of breath more quickly, lessening their primary advantages.
It was cool of you to rbing himalayasaurus into the discussion and compare it to Livyatan !!! The 3rd most dangerous macroraptorial predator in history against the 2nd !
modern mammalian herbivores might struggle in the triassic. Many mesozoic relict plant species are utterly unpalatable to modern mammals, especially ferns and cycads. Modern conifer lineages also hadn't evolved yet.
Animals like Lystrosaurus are Synapsids so they are more related to the mammals, even they layed eggs and hadn't fur. Synapsids and Sauropsids (Squamates, turtles, crocodils and dinos/birds) still split in the perm. So there were many relatives of mammals in the Triarassic, also some with the size of a hippo.
Twas my line that if you transport a viable population of house cats back into Jurassic times, in 5 million years you'd have a whole genus ranging from 150g insect eating kitties to pack hunting 500kg "lions" with everything inbetween and absolutely no carnivorous theropods left.
now i really wanna know how bears would do and specifically short faced bears and other large brown bear species. i would imagine that not many animals during that time would be able to do much against a short faced bear, but maybe to the smaller brown bears.
I think that Panthera Atrox would be one of the most successful predators in any land based ecosystem. They're strong enough to hunt animals over 1 ton (potentially able to take 2 ton animals like large sloths and B. Latifrons), and would outrun any dinosaur, as well as being significantly more agile. Anything between 100 and 4,000 lbs would be on the menu, and nothing outside of current mammals could catch them to harass them. And mammalian herbivores like horses, deer, bison, and even camels would be too fast for any therapod to catch, majorly upsetting the ecosystem. Pleistocene mammals are generally OP in Mesozoic era.
We'd actually be quite OP, we evolved in the savannah, so we'd be pre-adapted to the high temperatures of the Triassic. Like Daeodon, we're omnivorous and could feast upon plants and fauna alike. Eventually, we'd take over Pangaea, taking down the large dicynodonts and prosauropods, and the large rauisuchians down with them.
All animals mentioned lived in the same time so technically the animals surviving into the ice age would have survived if all of this was realistic and not evolutionary.
Smilodons could become larger in order to be too big & aggressive to be prayed upon. If it keeps it’s pack hunting tactics it might seriously become a worldwide apex predator like the Orca, but if it doesn’t, it would probably just become a unique apex predator.
I know this is concentrating mainly on prehistoric megafauna, but if you move a few thousand years into the modern era, I have a feeling domestic cats would do well in just about any period. They're smart, adaptable and deadly for anything their size, or smaller. Sometimes even larger prey. Considering how devestating they are in pretty much any new environment they are dropped in, it seems like they'd be a real menace.
The only reason cats do so well is because humans pushed out a lot of the threats cats would have to worry about. Example monitor lizards prey on cats all the time now image have a whole landscape fill with them. Most animals that people think that would be super adaptable are really fortunate that humans have just either cause the residential top predator extinction are low density populations.
I can agree with most stuff except the smiloden bit. Expect for the caiman bit and to be fair most caimans are small and typically are piscivores/ eating small invertebrates, definitely not a good ground to use that as a indicator On how well it would do against its competition. It’s kinda like saying since a jaguar can kill a 6 foot caiman that weighs 100lbs it can tackle a 20 foot saltwater crocodiles that’s over a ton
Ive thought about this alot, as well as the inverse of if creatures from the mesozoic could surivive in more modern times about the Quarternery period. I'm curious what someone more knowledgeable than me thinks
7:07 funny to see how Fasolasuchus suddenly shrinks in size, when convenient. It measured 8-10m I length exceeding the mega sloth's weight. And let's not forget that sloths have a very low muscle mass, meaning they are less powerful for their weight class; which used to give them an edge, since: less muscle mass -> less food consumption -> higher body mass. I.e. a giant sloth was less powerful than its mass might suggest; instead it had a much more efficient caloric intake; i.e. more bang for the buck. giant claws are of little use when You wield them at a snails pace.
I’d like a speculative biology video on a world - NOT Earth - where certain Dinosaurs and mammal megafauna species (or families) could theoretically coexist as equals.
