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The scarier scenario in my opinion is the Borg realizing the Flood's biological perfection and deeming them necessary to the cause of the Borg, and convincing the Flood to join them in symbiosis. True biological and technological perfection combined.
Tanner Barnes only problem with that is the flood would know they’re too strong for the borg and they would infect them until they’re one with the flood.
im not sure I agree that it would be that easy. However - the point Tanner Barnes brought up is that for both species (given they are compatible) it would actually make sense to undergo voluntary merging of their collectives. The Borg strive for perfection and the flood for complete infection of the universe. Their goals are ultimately compatible.
I'm pretty sure no matter if the Borg were the first to infect the flood or if it was the opposite it could end the same way. The Moment the infection happens the infected is connected to the other hive mind but at the same time, it is connected to its hive mind so both hive minds would connect and would become one. Maybe it's a stupid idea but I don't see any problems with it.
The Borg have a habit of destroying damaged or dead drones. All that would be needed is a new command for each drone to self-destruct the moment an infection is detected inside the drone's body. The command would sever the link with the hive mind as well. The technological part of the drone, which can't be infected, handles that function. By eliminating the body, you eliminate an infection vector. The Borg would only takes a couple of encounters to realize this and make themselves immune.
The two factions here also have very different goals. The Borg seek "perfection", or self-improvement of their race. The Flood's entire existence and purpose was meant to be an act of utter spite. A big middle finger to all other life.
I feel like they'd just become the combined Borg-Flood, and unleash renewed hell on both galaxies. Neither really wins, they just combine into something scarier.
The flood consiousness IS a precursor. A gravemind in Halo 2 for example teliports chief and arbiter with only small access to precursor reality warp tech (they use their minds to make and do things). An example of how smart a Key mind is simple as well: Forerunner AI can perfectly move trillions of sentinels and thousands of warships and command personnel in a war against the flood. Yet a forerunner AI was stated to "Be no match for a Keymind", as in, the feats of their AI were still nothing compared to the capability of a Keymind. They opened uncountable portals all around the forerunners troops, ships and trillions of sentinels and outmaneuvered, positioned and infected/destroyed all forerunner armies using their own tech against them and INDESTRUCTIBLE Star Roads (things that look like hentai tentacles that move Stars with gravity manipulation, flood just smacked em at things or used them as shields to hide their ships.) So yeah I agree, I think the Flood hivemind might be stronger than the borg collective, after all. Humans managed to resist the Borgs collective. (with plot armour of course).
Wait... whole milk or those reduced fat milks? I mean, clearly it's whole milk all the way, but these are still important details to take into consideration.
Since the Borg are a technologically based species, I could see a Keymind allowing flood to be assimilated. If the Logic Plague is as effective as it is just through talking, imagine how immeasurably fast a Keymind could manipulate the Borg if it allowed parts of itself to be directly added into their central system.
its the truth they do win ask the for runners, ask the covenant ask the entire ancient human race ask the precursors ask any race or entity that has came into contact with the flood OH THATS RIGHT YOU CANT CAUSE THEY ARE ALL DEAD THANKS TO THE FLOOD
This channel, like most, severely underestimates the technological capacity of Star Trek races. Star Trek is on a higher power level than any other universe discussed on this channel. All ST factions, even the Borg, fight with one hand tied behind their back. Stuff that's fantastic and rare in other universes, like destroying stars or traveling through time, are relatively mundane in Trek. Even the transporter is overpowered compared to other universes. Master Cheif is killing drones on the cube? Beam him into space. Flood spores infected part of a cube? Beam them into space. Flood took over a planet? Tricobalt device into its sun. Flood is about to destroy the collective? Go back in time.
@@VVeremoose yeah Star Trek tends to be underestimated a lot in the Sci fi community, especially when compared with Star Wars. Star Trek weapons have a consistency problem sometimes but in the episodes where they are shown as powerful they can put the asteroid destruction scene from Star Wars to shame. TNG Legacy where they vaporise a mile of rock. Or in TNG Q Who where the craters the enterprise puts in the Borg cube are huge. Maybe general order 24 (i think it’s called) is like Trek version of a BDZ. All Star Trek ships are time ships, like in TOS Enterprise incident or the voyage home film this shows that all Trek ships can accurately go back in time etc. Star Trek ground warfare is better than most think. They have vehicles and mortars and personal shields etc DS9 episode paradise lost and the one with Bashir and siscos kid fighting Klingons on the planet. I don’t think we should overstate Trek tech though and echarts view probably isn’t far off if at all here. The only thing that I might say is that the Borg couldn’t assimilate 8472 because they were from basically another dimension (fluidic space) rather than them simply being more advanced. I think
@@callum563 phasers and whatnot really aren't that important when dealing with the flood. Ground combat is irrelevant in a total war situation. Factions only engage in it to minimize losses. But when dealing with something like the flood, you quarantine the planet and nuke it from orbit. Or destroy the star as I said before. Or set off a plasma storm that destroys all organic matter on the planet (Kilngons did this in TNG The Chase. Just some random bullshit Vorcha class acting alone, from the least technologically sophisticated major faction. Imagine what the Feds could do when really let off the chain. Or the Borg)
honestly the borg may eventually decide to join the Flood willingly, considering the flood are pretty much a perfect life form and the borg's quest is perfection.
In either scenario, the Flood are victorious. There are two key reasons for this. The first is, as you pointed out, both species gain the knowledge of their hosts when they are consumed/added to the collective. The second is that the Flood have the ability to interface with technology. Meaning, that even a single infected Borg Drone grants the Flood access to the Borg Hive Mind (which is enabled through technology as opposed to any kind of psychic ability). In my opinion, that's checkmate. The Flood will gain all of the information they need about the Borg from that. The same does not necessarily apply to a Borg nanotech infection of a Flood Combat Form, so while the Borg *might* gain an additional soldier, they won't necessarily gain much or any knowledge from the Flood Hive Mind. Another consideration is the Shipmaster's line in Halo 3 "A single Flood spore can annihilate a species." Meaning that even an apparent "Victory" for the Borg (all Flood Forms assimilated) could eventually turn into a Flood Victory as Flood spores slowly infect and mutate the entire Borg Collective into Flood, and then the rest of Star Trek Universe because Slip Space is much faster than Warp Drive. The Borg's only hope, in my opinion, is if they realize fast enough that they must destroy the Flood and any ship they've touched. Any infected Borg vessels could potentially be self-destructed remotely depending on their level of infestation. The real problem would be the "Patient Zero" in this scenario, which is the Flood Infected Covenant Carrier. I don't believe any amount of "remodulation" would stop Covenant plasma weapons. Worse, Star Trek Phaser-type weapons most likely wouldn't do much to Covenant Shields. However, since in Scenario 2 the Flood have 1 ship and the Borg have _thousands,_ there is a tactic the Borg could use. That is, repeatedly ramming their ships into the Covenant Carrier at high speeds and self-destructing whatever parts of the ships survive. A small sacrifice for the Borg to make, and it probably wouldn't even take more than 1 or 2 ships if the Borg can accelerate them to near light-speed. Fortunately, while the Flood usually _repair_ captured/infected ships, unlike the Borg, we've never seen them really attempt to upgrade them with newly gained technology. So while an infected Borg ship would give the Flood access to teleporters, it's unlikely they would attempt to replicate this technology on the Covenant Carrier. Nor would they attempt to replace the Borg's Warp Drives with Slip Space Drives. (So while the Flood might adopt a tactic of using Borg Teleporters to Teleport a few infection forms onto other ships, they won't be able to use that tactic once all Flood infected Borg vessels are destroyed. Not that it'd be easy once that tactic is in play.) Still, 19 times out of 20 I give the win to the Flood. The Borg are too likely to continuously try to assimilate the Flood instead of outright destroying them and that will only result in a Flood victory.
You forgot one of the Borg's ace cards. Super fast regeneration, and adaptability. Also, the Borg doesn't need air to survive, hence, wouldn't breathe, so no, flood spores wouldn't work.
@@aiosquadron You don't necessarily have to breathe them in for the spores to get into your body. And the infection flood forms directly stab into they body and attempt to take control of the nervous system.
@@aiosquadron Regardless, the Flood vs Borg fight basically boils down to the Flood Super Cell vs the Borg Nanite, and personally I think the Flood Super Cell wins as it can interface with the technology, and becomes more and more dangerous as the Flood gain biomass. The Star Trek universe has plenty of non-Borg biomass available and could rapidly produce one or even multiple Graveminds. The Flood could then infest and take over Borg technology and begin taking over the Collective before infecting a single drone.
Came here long after from the Borg Sphere video from Spacedock. Most points I agree with, except weapons. The Covenant and their ships are wildly obsolete compared to what's done in Star Trek. Trek ships have considerably less impressive FTL speeds than Slipspace, the result of being Alcubierre Drives rather than opening portals into an "11 dimensional spacetime." However they are able to use their warp cores to augment their weapons, and this means that ship weapons and shields are vastly more powerful and capable. A single Constitution Class Cruiser can glass a planet in accordance with General Order 24. Plasma based weapons have been obsolete for several centuries by TNG and today only form part of more sophisticated Nadion based particle weapons, which are powerful enough to vaporize vehicles and buildings from a pistol sized weapon. These are exotic matter weapons, vastly exceeding what Covenant plasma can do to you. Laser weapons are considered non-lethal, one line in TNG making note they wouldn't even penetrate ship shields rated for small debris. The power generation of all these systems ties back to antimatter reactors, or if you're Romulan then you may instead use a miniature black hole. The Covenant makes use of antimatter incredibly sparingly, almost not at all much like how we'd approach nukes. Federation Photon Torpedoes can be fired in the dozens via sophisticated cruise missiles, treating them the same way the UNSC values Warthogs. Ship sub-light speeds are noted to be at .25c maximum, while UNSC Super MACs have a rated maximum of .04c, speeds which are supposedly to be unavoidably quick in HALO but would be like a stand still in Trek. With Star Trek sensor ranges being several AU long, any encounter between the Borg and a Covenant ship would be seen as if the Covenant ships were spontaneously exploding without reason. Much like how Egyptian MiGs were being utterly crushed by vastly superior BVR attacks from Israeli jet's during the Yom Kippur War. The Borg as they are still stand rather little chance on their own. While Starfleet's better-than-Forerunner technology and speed of plot adaptability would allow them to come out on top, the Borg are too stubborn and reclusive to start noticing the Flood as a serious threat. Their habit of never acknowledging problems preemptively means that they're only going to get about as far as the Forerunners did, and we all know where that got them. The Borg could use Time Travel is left with no other choice, but that's a bit too much of an unpredictable stretch.
I think the flood would excel in ground combat, with tactical drones being overwhelmed by flood combat forms in sheer numbers. However I believe that in space, the borg would have the advantage because the flood only take over ships, they don't make them. Which means the flood would have to infect ships to pose a threat to the borg, and the borg already have the most advanced starships in their galaxy, and I don't believe the flood would ever be able to infect a borg ship with their much heavier firepower. I don't believe the borg could ever assimilate the flood, but I do believe they could decimate the surface of every planet they infect, and preemptively annihilate any planets that the flood could use for extra biomass before they did so. This would limit the amount of flood forms that could be used against them and in turn, the flood would eventually starve or be driven out of the galaxy. Ultimately it would depend on who's home galaxy they were fighting in. I would disagree with EchartsLadder on one point though, the flood were the corrupted versions of precursors but all precursor technology was destroyed when the halo array fired because it destroyed nerve tissue within every creature, which the precursors used as the primary basis for their tech. So the flood would not have access to their weapons even if they reached the extra galactic stage, and would therefore not have a significant combat advantage technology wise. Just my thoughts on the subject though.
Red but at that point there like the corrupted version of the precursors and would likely be able to recreate all that was lost in the first flood war. Also all knowledge known from a flood gravemind of the past is inherited by the new gravemind so it's very likely the flood would already know how
Honestly, the borg would win the second scenario, because in borg space, they have the power to wipe out the flood before a single borg is infected. Thier ships can not only adapt (like what was said in the video), but they also have the power to time travel. This means, if the borg were losing the battle, they would send a ship back in time, and destroy the flood infested ship before it even made it to a planet.
Red The problem here is that destroying planets is not enough. The forerunners destroyed solar systems with super novas and the flood stil beat them to a pulp. Keep in mind the forerunners are way way more advanced than the borg.
No, Borg behavior would erode the starship advantage. The Borg tend not to attack things that get onto their ships unless they do some damage. It should be possible for a spore or infectious organism to stealthily get onto a Borg vessel and start infecting drones. By the time the Borg start trying to seriously counter it, they already have a big problem on that ship. By the time the Borg tighten their security, they will have lost anywhere from a few to a hundred cubes, depending on how strategic the Flood are.
Hands down, I'd say The Flood would win, since it took several centuries for The Borg to assimilate even _a third_ of the Delta Quadrant, and just to give you an idea, the Delta Quadrant is only 1/4th of the entire galaxy. Going by that logic, The Borg not only have the Federation to go through, but also The Dominion (which is basically the Star Trek version of the Covenant). The Flood, on the other hand, would take out the ENTIRE Delta Quadrant within only a few decades. They've already assimilated countless galaxies, and they've been around for tens of thousands, if not millions, even _billions_ of years, while The Borg have only been around for a few thousand years (in Star Trek canon, the earliest recorded point of The Borg's existence is in the 15th century AD). Even then, The Borg only assimilate races based on how technologically advanced they are, and wouldn't even DARE assimilate any race that's below what The Covenant would refer to as a "Tier 3" species, since that's below their idea of when to assimilate a race since The Borg seek perfection and nothing more. The Borg are already a mix of organic and technological components, but The Flood could give less of a damn about The Borg's technology, just as long as they have something to assimilate, that's enough for The Flood to care about. So yeah, in sheer terms of numbers and assimilation speed, as well as mentality towards when to assimilate something, The Flood would win.
I don't think so. The Replicators work differently than typical infestatious sci-fi races. If the Replicators got onto one of the Borg cubes, they would effortlessly gain control of its systems and then they would improve the technology and use it to infest other cubes. I don't see the Borg winning.
MetroVerse I agree but u missed the most important part of the replicators they are impervious to energy weapons. The borg probably couldn’t kill a single one. Halo and 40k are probably the only universes that could deal with them at all.
Well the way the covenants plasma weapons work i think so. They would melt the blocks probably because unlike the staff weapons and the Star Trek phasers the plasma hits and continues to burn a hole into the target. The way they are described in the books and appear to work in game its like a paint ball and slashes. In staff and phasers the bolts of energy that hit like a bullet and seals the wound as it goes though. If that doesn’t work energy swords, spikers, needlers, brute shots and fuel rods should work on the spiders. Hunter beams might work really good against the human form ones and probably be like a anti spider hose. The covenant would probably treat it like a flood infection. The elites were able to control the flood pretty good and their ships can break sections off. They can probably handle it a lot better then the Asgard did tbh. Imagine a brute chieftain coming up against a hallway of them lol. He probably start running down the hallway smacking the ground over and over again until he eventually killed them all or dies.
Keymind: "I accept your offer of assimilation into your... Collective." Borg: "Understood. Assimilating... total capacity has increased by upwards of 100000%.... Such foolish primitives."
Video ideas: 1) Resurgent class Battlecruiser vs Executor class Super Star Destroyer 2) Resurgent class Battlecruiser vs Infinity class Super Carrier 3) Empire fleet at Endor vs Federation fleet at Wolf 359 4) Rogue Squadron at Endor vs Inferno Squadron 5) Imperial Star Destroyer vs Behemoth class Battlecruiser from StarCraft 6) Star Fury vs Tie Fighter
I think each of these ideas would make good videos. But I am open to suggestion, and have liked each video I've seen here. Hopin' to get one of mine. :)
but even as a treky I think the 3rd one is a federation death sentence because every single ship in that fleet was outdated lol how about the fleet at the battle of sector 001?
In Voyager, the Borg were capable of creating a warhead that could destroy entire solar systems. If they see the Flood as a real threat, one of these warheads would stop them cold. Also remember that the Borg value efficiency over the lives of their drones, so they wouldn't care much if they had to send in kamikaze spheres/cubes/etc. to get the job done.
8472 was defeated by technology which relied heavily upon the borg nanites. I think it ultimately comes down to if the borg are able to assimilate the flood. The way the flood takes over biological organisms might even help with that as it means they get the nanites into them as well. With how the borg dismiss so many things as irrelevant, the effectiveness of the logic plague is highly questionable. So if the borg nanites can control the flood, the borg win without question. If they can't then it is a matter of power and adaptability.
There was a flood vaccine developed by ancient humans toward the end of their war, but it was too late to save all of them. Also, some characters with unique or damaged nervous systems are resistant to flood infection, e.g. Sgt. Avery Johnson
It was not know if the vacine worked and was stated by the primordial that the flood withdrew because it was not humanities time to be tested, then again the the primordial was know to lie so there could've been a vacine
sriv4457 Actually it was because humanity had passed the test and they withdrew when the vaccine was created so they pretty much feinted defeat and went on to attack the forerunner s to test them
Short answer? No, they’d wake up the Slayer and get pulverized alongside the demons. Long answer? The exact same thing as the short answer. The Slayer doesn’t discriminate, if you’re evil you’re gonna get force fed a shotgun slug wether you like it or not.
@@trial_with_an_error9687 Agreed, eventually someone will get the attention of the Slayer. Hell in DOOM is eternally large, so who knows how long it will take before encountering the immortal angry man. But once they meet him, they so ded.
how about Jedi versus Spartans from halo? we know extremely powerful soldiers can defeat jedi so are spartans like Chief able to beat a jedi? like if you want this
ANGRY MARINE well as of certain theories that say that only people within the Star wars Galaxy are effected by the force so the Spartans could come out on top. But this theory has not been confirmed to be true at least not yet. I think it makes sense though.
sylok the defiled UNSC ammo can get through lightsabers when you try to deflect a bullet with a saber, it melts into a molten slag and goes through you. not sure if im correct
The C.I.S just use droids as their main force though, they still employ biological soldiers and that is a good thing other wise the flood will stay a single spore :\
Also, the flood can utilize pure forms if their is a lack of possible hosts. And pure forms are biologically designed to be effective against the current ennemy. This is assuming that the flood has a gravemind, which is the only time pure forms can exist.
The only thing that was missing was the borg’s use of time travel. They could go back to when the flood infestation was still in its infancy and face it then instead. Time travel is kinda an automatic win for whoever has it though, as long as they are facing someone who doesn’t have the same capability. A more fair angle would be to give the borg their ability to communicate through time but not travel through it.
Michael Balmas Flood is more vermulant, enfectious and assimilate much faster. Zerg assimilation takes time where the flood is instant. The Flood also has a far more efficient, effective central mind, running billions of minds as a single one. Whereas the Zerg has a collective intelligence, where individual Zerg with varied intelligence working together, it's still good but not as effectives a centralized hive mind like those of the Flood. Even if the Flood can't infect the Zerg, you bet your ass that the Flood will out think and out maneuver them with great militaristic efficiency.
RenegadeParagon take in mind that the flood dna could be bring into the zerg mutating them into more dangerous enemies than usually Also zergs have a hivemind - overmind
You know, I seriously don't get why would anyone would propose a match up of Forerunner vs SW, the level of technology is so advanced it's downright godly (notice the small g), TurtleOver Lord is over-exaggerating a *bit* with what he said, but they did make the a lot, fuck, the Forerunners hated war above all else, only reason they didn't make them their standard weapon. The Fortress class ships they had were equipped with weapons so powerful they could eliminate entire cities with one shot, they had hundreds upon thousands of them, each with entire armies and fighters. They had slipspace, Dyson spheres, shield worlds, THE MANTLES APPROACH!! The composer ignores shields and walls, that making MORE Prometheans and those fuckers cant die, they just get a new body and teleport to wherever the fuck the want as far as we know. And all normal Warrior-Servants with their regular armor could split any human in two with no effort, and their armor is over-fucking-powered in defenses. Forerunners at their highest could change entire systems and the fabric of space and time. What does SW have? A few medium ships with some weak soldiers that couldn't hit the broadside of a aircraft carrier two feet in front of them and a couple of dudes with psychic powers and less effective Energy Swords? If you played HW 2 you'd know what only Sentinels are capable of.
Yeah, I think the Star Wars galaxy would find the Foreruners a bit to big to deal with. Just think of Halo alone. It's a literal weapon capable of destroying all life in an entire galaxy. Star War wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Unconquered Sun it actually depends what stage there in and how many non xenos there are to infect because if there in there first stage they wouldent be able to adapt to penetrating the xenos exoskeleton or surviving the xenos acid blood and its all Conditions its not really superiority more circumstance
Master Chief Petty Officer John-117 please explain how and under what circumstances would the flood beat the xenos are they stage 1,2,3 or 4 this conversation was about how they would face up in a logical unbaised manner
I absolutely love this question. A friend and I were wondering the same thing and haven't stopped debating it. There's so many variables to take into account. It's really fun.
Not sure if you already have done this, but the perfect counterpart for the Flood to go against would the Replicators from Star Gate SG-1. They are basically the same but one is tech based and the other is organic.
Being as how most human ships prey ark of truth primarily use rail guns and misiles with some asgardian modifications, wouldn't be a contest. Empire all the way. Before you say it, I am a huge fan of ALL sci-fi.
JPaul Lightfoot Because of the upgrades the Odyssey received during Unending, the Odyssey would have Asgard Plasma Beams and improved shields, allowing it to have a better chance against a Star Destroyer.
I've been wanting to see the Harrower like WAYYYY more. Harrower vs Venator, vs Dreadnought Class, vs Interdictor Class Star Destroyer, vs Munificent Class Star Frigate, vs Acclamator Class Assault Ship. So many good ones.
I feel like the only reason the Borg lost is due to the media it originated within. In television, there has to be a resolution to any scenario, no matter how unlikely, by the end of the episode or groups of episodes. For this reason, the Borg have to be nerfed just to make the Galactic Federation be able to win, and to keep it in line with cultural attitudes at the time. This however, is not necessarily the case in video games, because of more recent attitudes in culture where sometime things are meant to be Unwinnable. It’s really just the argument for contrivium, plot elements that somehow completely resolve a situation. No matter what, since Star Trek takes place on a Star ship, the solution to all problems have to be contained somewhere on the ship. That is why somehow no matter what enemy the crew come across, they are always able to adapt some piece of technology on board to work for any given situation. Because of this, the Borg look weak. This happens in the Halo universe, sure, but since your on a halo ring and in trouble, the solution to the problem is somewhere on the halo ring. Basically, in Star Trek, the crew has the solution to all their problems close by and at hand, whereas in halo you have to hunt for it. Because of that, the Borg look weaker than they are. Seeing as that don’t need a planetary system to inhabit, and they could literally scoop up a city overnight without anyone noticing, they would be the masters of hit and run tactics against the Flood. Plus, they can survive without atmosphere, and this is super important, they change the DNA of all they infect into the Borg. With the ability to convert any enemy on the fly into drones by changing its dna, I feel like the Borg have more of a chance than you are giving them credit for. Also, this is kinda a side diccussion. The Species you brought up that the Borg couldn’t assimilate species 8472 is native to Fluidic Space, basically making it extra dimensional. Because it’s an extra dimensional entity, would the flood even be able to infect it?
This is one of the best analysis of the borg. People underestimate the Borg so much bc of the 8472 encounter and the star trek first contact movie. But short of that the borg were literally feared by all. In fact the borg were so feared that even the Q continuum respected them and didnt intentionally provoke them.
Yeah. The Borg was nerfed. HEAVILY nerfed. (Especially in VOY) But if we cut VOY's part of Borg lore out, they'd be a literally unstoppable force of nature.
@Joshosh 34 Asking if they could infect species 8472 is a good question, with their extreme immune system it may be possible to stave it off, but I think eventually the flood would infect them. The fact they live in fluidic space would probably allow the flood forms to traverse easier too. Also the fact they use Biological technology would be a massive disadvantage, as the species that the flood was born from used similar but much more advanced Bio-technology and they could use that to its full extent, so if they still have that knowledge at hand it would give them the boost they require.
+Darth Vader How ? I think the Flood are beginning to sound way to over-estimated I mean ya there a major threat but come on it's not like there Gods or Devils.
Actually there's literally a track in Halo CE called "Devils.... monsters....." in reference to the Flood. As well as the fact they actually are gods. Well in the sense of a corrupted god at least.
I just want to say this.. I LOVE THE FLOOD... everything about it the lore its backstory and its power as a species... its overlooked in some ways but its easily the strongest most op species ever created in sci fi
Well, there are also the X from Metroid and “things“ from “The Thing“ which basically is the father of the Flood. The X are parasites, like the flood, and reproduce by cell division, so they can absorb a very powerful creature and then just clone it. They can absorb any organic lifeforms and copy them either 1:1 or in an even more powerful form. Similar to the Flood, one X can destroy a civilisation. The only way to kill the X is to destroy the pöace they're in (similar to glassing a planet) or by using Metroid dna. The Things are an unknown lifeform (from a movie from 1982) that is able to absorb a victim and create a 100% perfect copy, including knowledge and personality, until it sees the chance to attack and absorb more creatures. They can mutate their new form and are very powerful but weak to fire. Then there is the oneWarhammer species. Not sure about them but they sound very bad, maybe worse than the Flood
I'd still give it to the CIS. They had around a hundred fleets and according to the wiki, a fleet could contain a couple thousand warships. Sheer numbers, quicker FTL though they'd have to be careful plotting since they don't have hyperspace lanes (unless this battle is in the Star Wars galaxy, but the scenario would not make any sense if that were the case), they can reproduce soldiers by the tens of thousands daily, and they have slower ships but thicker armor, energy shields and energy weapons.
In the third movie? I'm not sure how many ships there were. Considering how those ships didn't seem to have shields or perhaps the scenes of destruction were when they were down, I'd give it to the ME alliance. CIS would pound the shit out of the dreadnoughts and cruisers if the ME alliance are stupid enough to close the distance (I'm going off the guess that ME ships have longer range then the standard turbo lasers of Star Wars) but if they have the frigates and corvettes use wolf pack tactics while having the heavy hitters sniping targets of opportunity, they'd win. This is all if they can do enough damage before the CIS micro-jumps into turbo laser range, and again, I'm unsure how many CIS ships were assaulting Coruscant. If there were a couple hundred, it'd be a Citadel win with significant losses, atleast 50% casualty rate. It'd be alot higher if we weren't using the movie canon.
Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn every cis ship had sheilds because we see these same type of ships in the clone wars and in one ep general grevious order all sheilds to the front when on a munificent class and the cis was stated to have tens of thousands of ships at the battle of courscant
From what little I know about the Borg, they need their victims to be alive to be assimilated. The flood does not and is basically just zombies, even with the fleshy infection forms and pure forms. It’s pretty open and shut depending on if the outbreak is big enough or just too small to do much
the borg actually test probes and assimilated attachments on corpses and sure it doesn't bring the thing to life but the still get information from it. also in the voyager ep Unimetrix zero the borg queen assimilates the defecting free drones though a collective dream called Unimetrix zero but I got no clue how that works lol
The Flood would never (barring something stupid) win in scenario 2 because the Borg would not hesitate to just completely destroy themselves or the space around them to stop the Flood from spreading. There are a number of things they could do canon to the Star Trek universe, but, for example, they could create black holes wherever the Flood appear out of the local stars and would do so as soon as the threat was recognized, which wouldn't take them long.
Imperium of Man wins hands down. The Imperium is used to war without end while the star wars universe is peaceful. The Imperium of man fights Chaos Beings that generate Psychic fields across the entire galaxy so force users are pathetic in comparison to the Inquisition in Imperium of Man. The Imperium of Man faces multiple species that could conquer the entire galaxy by themselves and survives. Baneblades and Titanwalkers destroy any mechanized infantry of star wars. Ion weapons and turbolasers are weaker than plasma weapons, lase weapons, psychic weapons, and gravity weapons. Space Marines would stomp jedi and sith for laughs. The imperial legion of man would crush the entire arsenal of the star wars empire with ease. The imperium could just send a fortress and wipeout the deathstar and the imperium has thousands of fortresses spread throughout the Imperium. Psychers in the imperium of man rely on the emperor of man who is so powerful he generated a storm in space that covers parsecs.
Michael Chaney even Void shields can't block physical attacks, I think their armor are sturdy enough. Besides, most SW weapons are energy based, which is easily blocked by the Void Shield
In the Gaunt's Ghost series a hive city has its own void shields and endures bombardment by chaos forces for months. Imagine artillery on earth, then add plasma weapons, and laser weapons with orbital bombardment by torpedoes. The void shields regularly standup to Tau weaponry that uses exclusively mass driver technology. If void shields can survive being hit by a mass moving near the speed of light, I bet a Imperium ship could just fly thru any Star Wars ship unharmed. Orc ships ram ships of the Imperium of Man but orcs get rofl stomped in space combat. Star Wars ships are unable to endure ramming by ships of equivalent or greater mass.
Idk I have to give it to the borg on both. The borg have advanced force field technology as well as transporters. Yes the flood could overrun them but it's not outside of the borgs power to say "Oh you're on our ship, how cute now you're entire infestation is in space." Plus the borg have the added benefit of what they know prior from species 8472, they have the capability to create bio-warheads that contain nanoprobes that are programmed to do nothing else but destroy life. Combining that with the advanced transport and shield technology of the borg would lead to victory on their part. On top of that nothing is preventing the borg from firing high yield torpedoes at the planets/stations containing the flood, the explosions of which would vaporize them. Not to mention the ability of their personal shields to be used as weapons as seen in "Drone" Where a borg was able to just walk into enemy forces and instantly kill them via its shields. Force fields would also be used extensively as we know the borg can pass through these effortlessly while the flood would be stopped by it, having to take time to get around it, we also know that star trek force fields can literally cut things in half and even if at a high enough intensity vaporize anything that touches them, with this knowledge the borg could probably just create a forcefield that sweeped their ships/planets/stations and eradicated anything that wasn't recognized as borg. Basically the halo rings with the ability to stop the person firing it from dying while still accomplishing the same thing.
I had the same thought. I believe that the best powers that could fight the Flood effectively would be those that had total control over matter, to the point of being able to transport on the cellular level.
The flood aren’t zombies they won’t just run into there shields they would develop strategies, use precursor technology which were beings that literally created all life in the universe technology that far surpasses the borg in every way and you forget the flood given enough biomass and enough sentient beings can infect even AI one key mind was said to be on the level of intelligence as forunner AI There biologically composition is so complex that the forerunners couldn’t develop a cure beings just as if not even more advanced than the borg were there is no way in hell they win the first round the second round maybe but it’s all dependent on how quickly they establish a grave mind because once you have beings that can infect all life in the universe developing strategies hijacking borg technology using borg soldiers against one another there is no fucking way anything survives and as soon as flood infect borg they become borg plus flood and you know what’s better than borg, borg plus flood you can’t assimilate the flood because there biology is so complex every single one of there cells is infectious they are near perfection when speaking biologically they don’t even need a nervous system they just turn you into biomass and your fucked
Nah, in the first scenario the Flood would win for sure. Second scenario the Borg would probably win. What would get interesting in the second scenario is if the Flood managed to infect some other Star Trek races first would the Borg still be able to win.
you should have broken it down into one simple question: Would an infection form be able to take over a borg drone? Further to this, would the borg nanites be able to counter the infection forms mutegenic spores?
I think that you are forgetting the Voyager episode where through the investigative curiosity of humans Voyager was able to use Borg nanites to quickly infect and defeat Species 8472 ships. They had even gotten Species 8472 to call a truce and bargain for peace.
You're missing one key element. Borg nanites. They will be able to adapt to the flood infection quickly, with the nanites destroying the infection at the cellular level.
I'm thinking Tau win. Primarily for the reason that unlike the covenant, the Tau fully understand their own technology and are constantly innovating to improve upon it. They might suffer losses early on due to a numerical disadvantage, but would likely make great strides against them in the long run, much the same as their conflict with the IoM.
UnknownSquid true about the tech part but tau warrior cast isn't suited for all out war against the covenant hell the imperium of man is a testament to that. The 'tau's military doctrine of hit and run dosent always work again the imperium of man shows how costly this can be for the tau,
(Lengthy, but this gets good, promise) About Flood and Borg infection processes. Borg nanites link to a person's nervous system, linking them to the Collective, and the Collective controls them remotely from that point on (unless they are removed from the Collective, jamming the signal and removing the implants responsible for the link). On the other hand, the Flood infect a host by injecting a mutagenic compound that allows the host body to be altered as needed, while at the same time the Flood Infection Form uses its tendrils to burrow under the skin and connect with the host body's nervous tissue, then highjacking the host's nervous system and taking control away from the brain, also removing memories and killing the host's mind in the process (described in Halo: The Flood novel). So, if Flood infect a Borg drone, whose control dominates? The Borg nanite and implant link to the host's nervous system, or the Flood Infection Form's highjacked link? Both kinda do the same thing. NOTE: Borg nanites are not a "cure" against the Flood, and were never meant to be as such for anything, and any Star Trek lore using them as such is plot material unrelated to the Borg nanites' original purpose...control of living bodies with minds and nervous systems, not as a cure. Something else worth noting about Borg nanites. Once they infect potential drones, these licing, thinking people automatically lose their own will and become drones. When Flood infect a host body, these nanites may in turn be able to infect the Flood Infection Form that is trying to take control of the drone body. Furthermore, if a host is already infected and altered by the Flood, it could be infected by nanites anyways, which affect the body as a whole, including the Flood Infection Form inbedded inside the Warrior form, sapping its will, and making it a Borg drone. It's kinda funny to think that the Flood would infect Borg drones, only for the drone host bodies to mutate into warrior forms, yet still be under the control of the Borg Collective. The Flood would actually make the Borg stronger. Even better, if a Gravemind formed, would the Gravemind be susceptible to influence from the Borg Collective mental presence in Flood-infected drone hosts? This would lead to a battle of wills, as it were. Even better, if a Gravemind itself were infected with Borg nanites and linked directly to the Borg Collective, would the Collective dominate automatically, or would the Gravemind's alien mind and strength of will allow it influence over the Collective? As far as the Gravemind overcoming the Borg nanites, please remember, the nanites are not a "cure" but meant for overtaking the nervous systems of other species and subsuming their will, personality, intelligence and knowledge to that of the Borg Collective. A Borg enemy like Species 8472 might have had a "strong immune system", but the Flood are all about that brain power. Borg nanites would be quite effective in this. And once the Borg assimilated a Gravemind, it's all downhill for the Flood from there!
I know this comment is old but I shall say any way. The flood have an ace in the hole in the form of the logic plague. The logic plague is the philosophical form of flood infection. According to the halo wiki "The logic plague should be thought of as a philosophical corruption than a mere computer virus or software infection. On the most basic level, it takes the form of facts or arguments delivered with carefully engineered deliberation to directly or indirectly persuade the targeted intelligence to act a certain way." The only way to stop the logic plague is if your literally too dumb to get it (That's why the forerunners created offensive bias so much dumber than his cousin Mendicant). So if the borg were to interact with the flood what are the chances they will get persuaded to do the floods will?
I can see it with the Borg Kingdom (the borg from the mirror universe) seems like something they'd do. the collective though would be... questionable... lol
Experiment 123 that's a little insulting the gungans are jus sad they can't even devise a decent battle plan without messing it up in the process and I'm not attributing there failure to jar jar though he does share some of that blame
Because mk 2 is taller than a human and has a blaster cannon and jet pack and the mk3 is huge with middle launchers under the shoulder pads along with twin blaster cannons on each arm along with heavy armor
I think the brog would put more of a fight than the forerunners, since the brog don't have any differing agendas as they're hive minded. The forerunners failed due to the master builder wanting wealth and power,also abandoning the original didact on a flood controlled system which destroyed his sanity and spread fear once he returned to the ark. Also the logic plague would be harder to use as it needs to bend and corrupt someone values that are mostly what they see as the greater good. The brog don't care about right or wrong mostly thus the for a gravemind it will be tougher and take longer to induce. If both enter a new galaxy both on the far sides of each other. It will become a resource war for living beings and would become a longer stalemate than the 300 year one of the forerunner flood war.
I need To be stopped the gravemind scene in halo 2 and 3 is already much more intelligent and has more knowledge than all the borg and other races in the Star Trek universe and could easily plant the logic plague in the borg
I agree with your Scenario 1: Borg attack Flood galaxy = end of Borg Consensus. However, Scenario 2 is less plausible. The Borg have encountered a dangerous species that could not be assimilated and came to the conclusion that complete destruction of the species is required. While the Flood would likely overwhelm one or two Borg planets, the destructive power of the Star Trek universe (one tricobalt rocket destroys a star) would likely result in the annihilation of the Flood long before a Key Mind could be formed.
Borg collectives don't just adapt their ships, they adapt the drones as well, so after a while the Borg would be so adapted to the flood that flood forces would be uses.
I think that a third scenario is more likely. Simply put, the Borg and the Flood, in their attempts to assimilate each other would meld into one species. Neither Borg, nor Flood, but a new amalgamation of the two.
I agree with your assessment. Timing is the biggest factor. If the Borg are exposed to an early-stage Flood infection, they would adapt to it, but once the Flood have gotten to a level where they can generate a logic plague, the Borg are done for.
I mean, Jedi mulch orks in the 1v1 but Jedi can't defend against massed automatic weapons fire. Ork spores dropped onto various settings would be dope though
You forgot to mention that all Borg drones have personal shields. Couldn't that keep them safe from infection? You can't infect what you can't touch right?
A flood infected Borg.... Now that is the Most Frightening Concept one could ever concave. a hyper intelligent Flood that could instantly adapt to all forms of Weaponry and Tactics. or to put it simply Making the Shotgun and Flamethrower as effective as the Sniper rifle...Unstoppable
I don’t think that would be all that special TBH. The Flood already do all that. The fully grown Graveminds are several orders of magnitude more intelligent than even Borg Queens. Having access to Borg tech would certainly be useful though.
Hunter1046 the NatSoc it does not take much thinking to realize that a single hit from a covenant plasma weapon would destroy a star destroyer, while it would be difficult for a star destroyer to penetrate a covenant ship's shields. And in all out war the covenant take the forerunner dreadnaught and use it's basically unlimited firepower/invincible shields to simply obliterate the Empire's worlds until they surrender.
No the logic plague can affect anything that thinks. This happened to the Didac from halo the last known living Forerunner. The Flood attacks bio-mass via a neurological based attack. If a target has a nervous system either technological or organic, it can be infected by the flood. And very very quickly
@@joehill4094 also when used on organic beings all the logic plague does is cause madness so the borg would be immune due their collective consciousness
After the Voyager Encounter, The Borg surely learned how to advance their Nano probes and dispersal of said probes. With that they'd take both scenarios. Also species 8472 had a higher advantage, they had superior telepathy even more so than Okampa or Vulcan. Given Kes' final level it suggests Okampa have more telepathy strength than Betazoids and thats the reason the Borg were unsuccessful with species 8472. That failure would better equip the Borg for
In scenario two, even if the Borg can't assimilate the Flood, they will win: They can just self-destruct the infected ships. The Borg - certainly since Voyager - have done that often to achieve a bigger goal even at great cost to themselves.
Wouldn’t work, the flood infect both bio and technical components, The Borg would have to severe the connection to contain the flood. As we’ve seen Cortana was infected via contact with flood infected technology. They’d have to self destruct before the Cubes systems are infected If it was that easy, offensive bias would have tried something similar in the halo lore, good thought though.
@@cayde7207 voyager and a defecting borg sphere sent a virus to a tactical cube and after noticing the queen immediately self-destructed the vessel also the vessel itself does not really need to be uninfected because they showed them doing it anyways there is a species that would go around and infecting borg ships so they'd just self-destruct them they could infect the queen but problem with that she could just save herself by offing herself or just transfer to a borg Unimetrix. (and she's established to have transcended the fuck that means)
Tyranid are so much more individually powerful that without a gravemind they just body the flood. But if the flood get a gravemind they'd be smart enough to outplay the nids.
I have to say, usually these versus videos which are cross-universe, are disappointing because whoever is presenting knows next-to-nothing about one of the universes. It's really refreshing to hear somebody talk about both sides having clearly researched and understood their strengths and weaknesses. Touche
Just thought I'd point out, the Borg are not weak in hand to hand combat. They are incredibly strong. Worf, a Klingon, was tossed across the bridge by a drone when they abducted picard
Could we see mass effect reapers vas the galactic empire from Star Wars I think it would be very interesting due to how many species in the Star Wars universe or against the Star Trek universe
Maybe, but the flood may be able to take over the planet in such a way that Shynet couldn't take any resources to build more stuff. It really depends how big the flood infestation is.
Borg Have amazing adaptation and would devise effective counter measures. Also Borg use antimatter beams to cut enemies apart, very effective on biology
Both scenarios would very quickly be won by the home team. The ability to infect or assimilate does not even factor into the outcome. Ship firepower and fleet strength will decide who wins long before anything else starts to matter.
XCOM Commander Commander! You may want to instruct your men to exercise restraint when using explosives... While certainly effective at killing aliens, they also destroy the artifacts we're hoping to recover from the bodies. Just something to consider.
So, here's an interesting thought experiment: Could a late-stage flood invasion stand a chance against the creeper from the Creeper World games and truly eradicate it, or would they fall to the all-consuming fluid too?
I do not think you considered the war properly, and i think the Borg would win. I do not know for sure, but i will assume that the borg cannot assimilate the flood. for ground wars and wars inside ships, the flood would win. The borg are not good in hand to hand combat when they don't have assimilation capabilities., so the flood would overwhelm and infect the borg in hand to hand combat. But, that is the end of the flood battle vs the borg. I will explain what i think will happen between a war of flood vs borg in your 2 scenarios. 1) the borg enter flood galaxy. It depends how many ships the borg has, since as you mention, the borg grow from assimilation, so with a whole galaxy of flood, they would have no new drones at least, and maybe limited new tech and materials to gather. It also depends on what the goal is, if the goal is for the borg to defeat a entier galaxy of flood planets, It is possible, but would take alot of time, and would involve the borg first discovering that the flood are on the planets and that they cannot be assimilated, and once they discover their "away team" was killed and nanoprobes are not effective, and they really needed the planets for some reason, they would bombard the planet from orbit and wipe out every last thing on the surface. After they first identify the "life form" flood, they would be able to scan and detect it on any planet or ship. They were able to detect 8472 life forms with tricorders, and even a species that hides from sensors in voyagers "the void" was able to be detected after they know what to look for, so i can easily assume the borg could detect the flood life form and determine if a planet or ship was infected. Then it would be as simple as moving through the galaxy wiping out the surface of every infected planet. 2) the flood invade the borg territory. Again, the flood would gain a beachhead on whatever planet they land on first, and infect the whole planet. But spreading from planet to other planets or ships would be the most difficult thing for the flood. Even if they managed to get aboard a borg cube, we have seen many times that infected cubes activate self destruct to prevent futher damage to the collective. So even if the borg transported some flood to their ship by mistake in the first encounters, the borg would identify it as a threat and a infection and neutralize the threat. the borg would be able to scan any vessel (borg or other) and know if the flood was onboard, and destroy any vessel leaving a flood infected planet. They could blockade the planets, and again, wipe out the surface of all complex matter. The borg would have the advantage in any space combat, if the flood gained full control of any vessel, and prevent any spread of the infection. Transporters can also be used to clean ships of the infection. transporters could be used on 8472 so i dont see a reason they cannot be used on the flood. The biggest disadvantage for the flood would be their inablity to create ships and so very limited ablity to spread, and in the star trek world, sensors would be able to detect infections as they leave planets, so the "hiddin in the cargo hold" or "stuck on the landing gear" excuses would not hold up. Maybe they would be a reason for spreading to other planets at the start of the infection, but once the borg know what to look for, they will easily prevent the spread. borg wins easily for me, but it was interesting to think about.
You missed various things that are shown of the Borg in Voyager and TNG. In Voyager there is a damaged borg ship that only borg children are on. The borg have artifical wombs that can produce new borg when needed. When the Borg are first encounterd in TNG, One borg is killed on the Enterprise, the next Borg that comes on is immune to phasors.
