My biggest complaint about these series of videos is about the way attacks are undertaken. No Navy or Air Force would every launch their aircraft in such a piecemeal fashion. The long accepted strategy has been to have aircraft take off and form up over the carrier before attacking as a single wave, or in groups from different directions. You guys actually did something like this when you recreated The Dance of Vampires. The defenders might send their planes out one or two at a time if it's a surprise attack. But when you have a carrier vs carrier battle and both sides are expecting a fight they would launch all planes first out of range then move in as a group. I understand this might not be possible yet with DCS and the AI available but I figured I would give some import. Keep up the amazing work!
With modern radar and missiles, "out of range" is getting to be further than the planes can fly. I do think Cap could send a couple of wing up and have them path, but if the goal is surprise on those ships, with satellite, subs, radar, and other imaging tech, the first wing up is going to set alarm bells all over. Neither side would have much success with an hour warning. All those ships would be at stations and extra gear would be online.
for anyone wondering. 0.05 m2 is slightly less then the size of A4 paper, or Letter size in the US. 0.002 m2 is that same paper folded in half 5 times. just to give you some idea of how much the stealth can disguise a jet plane.
@@donkeysunited its the radar cross section. that is an area. Of course it is in square meters. In the video it is written with a superscript 2. I just didn't bother to find out how to do that in the comments. Heck, Supercap mentioned square meters for the unit. How the [sensored] did you miss that.... shigh So A4 paper is 21.0cm by 29.7 cm, or 0.21m by 0.297 m zo the area is 0.21 x 0.297 = 0.06237 square meters which is an 24% overshoot of the given radar cross section of 0.05 square meters. folding it double 5 times halves the area five time so 2^5 = 32 times in total. 0.6237 / 32 = 0.1949... square meters. less than 3% off There happy now.
@@sbjchef more like a butterfly going mach one. How is the speed measured by radar anyway. is it redshift of the signal, i.e. doppler effect? Or a complex matrix calculation of all the reflection points of two following sweeps?
Retired carrier sailor here - we wouldn't. We often have two carriers in the vicinity - one stationed in Yokosuka and one deployed for WESTPAC. Both would be used to guarantee success. Aircraft were too strung out in this scenario. Limitations of the AI I suppose.
Cap, you NEED to limit the number of respawns a human has in these wars, otherwise the 'science' of the attack is completely disrupted by Dark (as an example) wiping out LRSMs, getting wasted then repeatedly respawning with full fuel and ammo, something no one else can do. I understand the need to keep it interesting or players won't turn up, but a cap of 3 (5?) lives will help keep balance plus encourage pilots to stay alive.
The thing is that human pilots would have done the same thing if they launched later. Yeah, there's an argument about situational awareness, but if someone is attentive to the radio and briefings are legit, by the time he's back up it's about the same.
@grimreapers If that is what they want fine, but a simpler method might just be reduce the number of AI by 3-4 per player. That way they represent the pilots getting up in the air layer instead of freebie aircraft.
@@grimreapers SO glad to hear it! The big battle sims are often the most interesting to watch, and it can be frustrating seeing humans doing human things and messing up the intended result. Can't wait to see upcoming events!
Just found your channel last night, been binging these war game eps, fascinating stuff! The simulation aspect is amazing to see, subbed! P.S. I feel very valued after watching these
These guys make some good videos! I found them a year ago and it has been my main channel ever since. I watch Growling Sidewinder also but am not a member, and watch Long Shot also but not a member. The only one I think deserves to be paid is Grim Reapers. It's fully unscripted unlike the other two channels I mentioned, and CAP comes up with some great Historical Missions and just missions for fun. But they are all educating! I certainly like to know where all of our tax dollars go and how good the kit is that was bought...
This is asking a lot... but i would LOVE to see a new series from you guys. an entire war game in the pacific! each video is an battle like this, that affects the future battles! that would be really cool!
What would be great to include is Chinese land-based anti-ship missiles which are a crucial part of Chinese naval deterence like the DF-17 hypersonic glide vehicles, DF-23 ballistic missiles and maybe older subsonic ones too.
they cannot simulate this, because nobody knows how the hypersonic glider works exactly, especially that part called "whole trajectory maneuver"....what is df-23? df-21 df-26 i think
Not only that, China has >200 landbased HQ-9 systems, the probability that none are deployed in their biggest city where their naval ship yard is also located is practically zero
All the Chinese sailors were at an all you can eat Chinese buffet and couldn't make it back to the ships in time. Everyone loves a good Chinese buffet.
I’d love to see a futuristic US Navy Arsenal Ship strike to see what would’ve happened if they hadn’t cancelled it. They would be made up if a squadron of 2, and would be stealthy and hard to detect over the horizon. Each ship would carry about 500 missiles, so 1000 between the 2, made up of some sams as well as various attack missiles, like lrasm and probably some futuristic american hypersonic attack missiles. Maybe the type 055 would finally have some competition. Let me know if you see this or think it’s possible!
THE American Hypersonic Attack Cruise Missile should be included in this time frame as well...plus the SM 6 BLOCK IB anti Hypersonic interceptor missile for defense.
The Ohio SSGN kind of took over this role with 154 Tomahawk missiles. And the Ohio is much more stealthy so she can pop up anywhere and fire a missile salvo with no warning. I would like to to see them incorporate that into a DCS scenario
@@blueskiestrevor5200 yes, but if i recall correctly the subs aren’t working very well. If they could get some subs to do a pop up attack with like 500 attack missiles that would be good too.
@@blueskiestrevor5200 maybe it was when they tried to have the subs fire torpedoes, but k remember something with the subs being pretty scuffed 😂 I just thought it would be easier to do it with a surface ship
@Ishawn.Ramaaj I haven't heard anything like that, but I suppose it's possible they have issues. I would still trade 150 missiles fried from a hidden platform vs 500 fired from a ship you can see coming hundreds of miles away. Surprise is the most important element in war. And imagine if they could fit the new LRASM into the Ohio class. Then, you could launch 150 stealth anti-ship missiles with no warning and sink an entire fleet
Chinese anti-carrier weapons not taken into count: Land-based: DF-21,DF-26 Air-based: H6K + YJ-18, J16, J10 Sea-based: Carrier Task Group + J15, 055 + YJ-21, 052D + YJ-18, 093B Nuclear Sub + YJ-18, 039B AIP Sub
Most importantly electronic warfare is not present. Anti-ship missiles like DF-21 and YJ-18 with only a single terminal active RF seeker can be jammed or spoofed. While both Tomahawk Block Va MST and LRASM have a secondary passive RF seeker that will do well even in a high degree of electronic warfare present.
Surely for such an important city like Shanghai there would be some land based HQ-9 and/or S400 and short ranged SAM+CIWS system, also some land based YJ-83/12/18s for coastal defense. We are talking about one of the areas in China closest to Taiwan which has multiple layers of air defense and is one of the most difficult to penetrate areas in the world.
@@AmirShafeek also the landbased Chinese CIWS placement in this sim is horrible...its behind the ship and probably failing because its being blocked by the ship parked in the harbor. If the first open volley failed to take down the LRSAMs, they're probably not going to try to shoot through their own ship to take down the missiles. The Chinese air defense is set up for failure from the start.
@lmn6335 I wish other Americans felt that way when they arw complaining about losing to Chinese and Russian assets im game. Everything I said simply could be fixed by adding more Chinese assets and games. I'm not asking you to change the radar cross section of anything. I'm not asking you to make any missiles more stronger. I'm just stating that from the get-go. The Chinese were at a major disadvantage. When we did the San Diego match, we mapped out where a bunch of American assets were up-and-down the coast of California and the surrounding states. I just find it kind of odd that we Don't do the same to China.
Also, AIM-260 is a hypothetical weapons system at least a few years away from ioc. PL-15 has been in service since 2016 and is now fielded in large numbers. The US missile should have been AIM-120D-3
I think it's a behaviour thing. The F35B had the advantage in radar detection distance on the J20... they would/should have RTB'ed after firing the long range missiles.. espiecially considering what they cost.
So, the 0.003 is what a plane looks like to radar in ideal head on configuration. The knife like shapes deflect the radar away so it doesn't bounce back to the emitter - however, once a plane turns its whole flat body towards the emitter (like when evading) its unsurprisingly much less stealthy. Looks like they added spherical harmonics. : )
Viewer Suggestion - do a video where you test detection ranges based on how a plane has it's body oriented to the radar. Controlling the orientation of a stealth jet is a huge tactical consideration, and cool addition to the game.
I think the reason the US kill ratio is so low is that you're sending the planes one at a time to attack a group of enemies. The real Navy would get all the aircraft up, have them circling and tanking to maintain a high fuel load, then send in an overwhelming force, from multiple directions, in a coordinated attack.
I think it would be far more realistic to spawn the attacking aircraft in already flying and formed up for the attack. The dribs and drabs arrival of the US aircraft I think had a big impact on the AtoA kills and makes it easier for the Chinese to swat down all the missiles as they straggle in. It might be realistic for a defensive situation when carrier task force is surprised and has to scramble, but the USN certainly wouldn't attack like that.
Where are J11s J16s & J10Cs....? Where are DF series missiles.....??? And in China attack video there were Arleigh Burke (US' mot advance destroyer), whereas this time there's no Type 055 active....?
It seemed to track, the F35's lost their advantage of cross section when they got too close to the J20s which is why that ratio closed up really quick.
I think the stealth capability of the J20 is being overstated according to reports "Current Air Force Chief of Staff General David Goldfein has compared the J-20 to the F-117, which reportedly had a radar cross section of 0.269 square feet, with reports suggesting that the J20 is no better that 0.15 square feet". That is from a report in Defence Weekly in 2018 - I cannot see the Chinese have made major changes to the airframe so it is unlikely that the stealth capability has improved. Further, they reported "The Air Force says the F-35 achieved 110 “kills” against “ nearest equivilent adversary aircraft” in Exercise Northern Lightning and achieved a 20-to-1 kill ratio in the early 2017 Red Flag exercise. Marine F-35Bs reportedly suppressed SAM sites without being targeted." The J20 is a poor cousin to the J35, but you also need to look at the sheet weight of numbers the PLAF and PLAN can field in any conflict, especially when coupled to other airframes they operate.
Have you heard of the US navy unmanned overlord ship concept? it is meant to integrate into manned ship Aegis so they use the SMs from those ships before using up their own. they have already completed the first series of tests and have joined up with manned fleets in the pacific for further testing.
If you only count containers, then Shanghai is number one in the world in terms of container throughput. But if you calculate the total cargo tonnage(Including oil, LNG, etc.), then it's China's Ningbo port first, Singapore's second, and Shanghai's third.@@primeradiant827
If trying to do a 2025 carrier air wing, it would be 24 Super Hornets and 20 F-35C if it's one of the better equipped carriera. Most will have on average 10 F-35C until more become available. Then 5-7 Growlers and 4-5 Hawkeyes. Amongst other helos. For the America class amphibious assault ship, 20 F-35B is fine. If it were a mixed complement, it'd probably have 6 F-35B and a few AH-1Z for attack.
This is like one “little battle” the first island chain that contains China spans nearly the entire planet earth from north to south, from Japan to Australia… hundreds of bases and assets, I get the game… but it would be unbelievably huge
11:38 It is because the F-35’s on onboard USS America (and other landing ships) are F-35B’s. This variant is the VSTOL version of the jet, not the F-35A which is the regular version. Also the F-35B’s onboard the Amphibious Assault ships are operated by the US Marine aviators, NOT US Navy pilots. The “B”’s are meant to support the Marines in an amphibious assault, so they are loaded more more for air-to-ground with only a limited air-to-air capability.
The ultimate flex wouldn't be any direct action. It would be the US sending its Navy anywhere it wants, and saying "haha, look what a REAL navy can do!" while the Chinese continue to bully fishermen 26 miles from port.
In real life however, it's not like this. And if rumor was right, US Navy right now have BACKLOG of ship maintenance. By the way, the Chinese military strategists will not forget their anti-ship missiles' deployment for any possibility.
11:38 F35-B is the Marine Corps variant and the flight deck is significantly smaller on an LHD or LHA and they don’t have catapults so they have to VTOL.
Don't forget that even though the Naval Air Force is the second largest in the world the US has an air force even larger: the US Air Force. Some C-130s or C-17s taking off from Guam or Okinawa and dropping a few Rapid Dragon palates each could help the USN overwhelm the harbor. They'd also likely use their F-22s to clear the airspace first. This attack force is smaller than the strike force that went after Baghdad, which had a tiny fraction of the air defenses of Shanghai. US military doctrine is to overwhelm the enemy with superior numbers and superior tech. Nobody has ever accused the US military of half-assing an attack.
3:45 For those unaware, 0.002 m² is about 3 inches across, or the size of a North American hummingbird, or a European goldcrest kinglet. Or, Aussies might know the Spotted Pardalote.
ah yes...and the ground radar technician seeing a hummingbird going mach 1 is just going to dismiss it lmfao...stop hyping up american stealth as if its invincible...we saw a less capable system shoot down an f117 a few years ago...imagine what new ones will do
@@chargedx5768 I'm sorry, where did I mention American stealth? I was giving a visual reference for those who, like me, had no real concept of how large 0.002 sq meters is. You may need to curb your prejudice before commenting with the big boys again.
@@chargedx5768 I agree with you in principle, that stealth (all stealth) is not invincible, but the F117 example is innacurate, and theres never been an instance where a stealth jet has been shot down as a result of its stealth capabilities failing. Also, i dont think thats the point the guy above is making, as i see this argument of 'ground radar technician seeing a Hummingbird.........' but its just a strawman at the end of the day, the RCS isnt to fool the radar operater, its too fool the radar itself and stay off of the radar for as long as possible so that it can get as close as possible, all stealth has its limits and so even and F-22 will be continuously detected (probrably tracked, but thats more up to debate) at anywhere under 30-50 miles. So the whole point in stealth is to prevent the radar operater from seeing the aircraft for as long as possible, and then to prevent a solid lock when it is seen. (Active seekers on SAMs also need to see the aircraft). The point of a small RCS is too enable the aircraft to avoid radar beams at long ranges so that it can get well within missiles range.
Okay Cap, orders are in: Now with the new update, you aren't allowed to go to sleep for a couple of months. We are going need to see some rematches and some new scenarios of AC naval battles between the major nations.
I am a little confused how the j-20 has a lower radar cross section in game than the f-35. I mean obviously we can’t know what the different materials and technologies being used are, but based on shape alone the f-35 would have a smaller radar cross section. The j-20 is basically shaped like non stealth fighters. If it truly does have a smaller cross section, they must be using some really nice materials and technologies.
Here's my idea for a missile. You make a fairly large decoy missile that flies fast toward the enemy and then goes into limp mode. Once it enters their observable radar it flies much slower and tries to stay at the periphery of their range, maybe flying sideways. We'll call this missile the "Platypus". It has the ability to change its radar signature. It can look like an anti-ship missile, a B-52, or any other high value target. Once an enemy missile gets close enough to really knock it out of the sky, it goes super stealth and enters glider mode. Make it as stealthy as possible from all angles, and uses body lift alone to stay airborne. Once the threat has passed it morphs back into a B-52 or F-15 or anything else that would cause them to launch all their missiles at it. Meanwhile you have several more of these in the air at any given time, so there's always a better target "over there" for the enemy missiles to try to lock onto. Yes, human intervention would be able to deduce that these are not real B-52's converting into F-15's, but any automated defense would be perplexed by it. You send these out in advance of the real attack force to deplete the enemy defenses. And if a few platypi get shot down, oh well.
A comment and a small complaint. If they had more powerful engines the J-20 would be scary. Second the American attack would be way more coordinated, like the strike groups would all be airborne and refueling in air; the LARSM wouldn't go out 5-10 minutes after the decoys. It would be in the middle or at the tail end so the Chinese couldn't reload!?! That and unless this after an offensive against Taiwan or Japan US would never be the the aggressor against China. Money and Politics from the last 20 years.
Yes but I'm speaking on the reality of Caps missions. Yes the Chinese defense is under par. But that is the analog to the previous videos about their attack on the west coast. China is SCARY, but not unbeatable; the most interesting thing is how much like Russia they are. You know?
@@joe.81China is well ahead of Russia... Russia is scary for their nukes but nothing else is militarily frightening, unless you're a third world eastern European country with almost no military, even modern Turkiye alone would easily trash Russia, more than 80% of Russian military tech is from the 60-70s and almost half of them are gone in Ukraine, Russia only has around 10 Su-57s which are a little bit better than 4th gen aircraft, China has over 200 J20s which are 5th gen and miles better than Su-57s and they only started making their own tech in the last decade
@@Hhhh22222-w Nah Russia probrably have the Best ICBMs in the world and the best ALBM, AShp Cruise missile, most cruise and ballistic missiles, oh and probrably the best SRBM in the world at the moment. Russia is frequently underestimated, but people need to realise that Russias military isnt at war currently, theve hardly mobilised and havent comitted their full force in Ukraine, nor have they used their best system or utilised their missiles to their fullest capabilities. Im pro-West, but its narrow mined to underestimate a conventional power house like Russia how Military industry/production is unmatched. Also dont underestimate Russia Su-57, id say its the second best fighter in the world at the moment (behind the F-22).
This reminds me of the book "Sea Strike" by James H. Cobb, only more realistic. In that book, a single Zumwalt class destroyer sails into the Yangtze river Delta, destroys a submarine, and sails out. Absolutely ridiculous scenario in an equally ridiculous book.
the 052Ds couldnt use their CIWS missiles, the first one barely fired a small percentage of its load would expect the only ships defending the port to be positioned so that they can fire their CIWS SAMs, especially after running out of the long range SAMs
Well, I see one thought that you forgot the US would have every cargo plane loaded with rapid Dragon they can get into the air and drop them first. They would not depend on what they could get up from a few planes on the CV.
@@rileymorrisroe6743 Okay so I read the whitepaper on the new DCS update. all they've done in incorporated a 'randomising' factor for RCS so that it spikes up and down periodically. It has nothing to do with frequency or aspect (disappointing) They've also incorporated a 'background noise' feature where very low observable aircraft can blend in with the background radar noise making them effectively invisible at all but point blank. Which might be realistic if you had frequency and aspect effects. But totally breaks the game without it. It would explain why LRASMs were only sometimes engaged but not always. And why J20s were sometimes shooting down F35s at ranges they shouldn't be able to see them at. Honestly if they just added RCS aspect, alot of the BS that makes people angry in these sims would go away. A F35 is over 100x more visible from the side than it is from the front. So IRL it would be detected at 3.5x the distance from side on. This is where tactics would actually make a difference and a Flanking or pincer attack would totally decimate any 5th gen airwing.
56:01 That friends, is the unique mating call of a wild "Cap." This endangered species is known to demonatize himself up to thirty-times per hour of video footage. Thank you for the video. Some random comments! There are tpyically 5-6 Growlers on a carrier, which should honestly be placed into the sim as additional F-18's since they use the same airframe and are equipped with the same AIM-120s, except their default loadout also includes an extra pod or two and perhapa some HARMs as well. The rest of the carrier air wing is largely taken up by 10+ helicopters. If the carrier wanted to max-out their fighter compliment, they could probably fit on 90ish, but any more than that and I believe it would be for ferrying purposes only snd lack the capability to conduct flight ops. I'm fairly confident the LRASM is stealthy enough to defeat Chinese radar. Is it possible to have the MALDs attack targets? The kinetic damage can still do quite a a bit and any remaining rocket propellant.
Noticed that the Reagan was only using 3 catapults. Any reason for that? Using all 4 Cats would speed up the launch rate, meaning more aircraft airborn and ready to fight sooner.
If I used cat 4 then the hornets tend to get stuck/bugged. I cured that by restricting to 3 cats. Sadly this reduces launch rates, but at least no planes getting stuck on cats.
FYI because you said you didn't know why they do - the F35B is made for the LHD's, and having vtol allows it to take off vertically on a ship deck with no catapult carrying much more capacity than it normally would be able to.
They aren't able to fully utilise VTOL with a full combat load though. They would need to use the deck of the LHD for a short take off, and likewise for landing unless they'd burnt off a lot of fuel on mission and were returning much lighter.
How about including a few US SSBN subs to the north of Shanghai. They could launch cruise missiles that travel over the city and then strike the ships once they reach the harbor.
No way they can sneak in that close to Shanghai in 2023, there are always dozens of Chinese diesel AIP subs like 039 Yuan class together Kilo class SSKs forward deployed. Also like 60-70 Type 056A and 30+ Type 054A anti submarine corvettes and frigates with VDS and towed sonars. China also has passive ocean-floor sonars under water in places where American will likely traverse
@@lmn6335 its also swarming with chinese fishing vessels and other commercial shipping which are part of the chinese maritime militia. They would likely very quickly detect missiles popping out of the water and relay it back to HQ.
@@rileymorrisroe6743 Oh I don't mean direct fire, but more like an adhoc early warning system. It maybe as simple as some maritime militia crews going on the radio and telling command "hey theres some missiles popping out of the water at this coordinate, you might want to take a closer look here" In fact china's maritime militia is a huge headache for the US because they're technically unarmed civilians and the US can't legally engage them.
Hey, first, love your videos, I am danger of spending more time watching you guys playing DCS than myself actually playing DCS. One thing: so often the carrier planes get stuck taking off and I see you picking up an F15 or something and gunning them down. Question: Have you tried just having an M163 Vulcan on deck and using that instead?
Cap a heads up on VAQ Squadrons. Typically the CVW will field between 4 or 5 EA-18Gs. Misawa AFB/NAF will host EA-18Gs in the theater as well. At times VAQ-209 of the US Naval Reserve will forward deploy to Misawa, Iwakuni or Anderson AFB Guam as well. Typically there will be two VAQ squadrons in the Pacific Area of Operations.
If it takes 200 MALDs to drain all the SAMs in order to get LRASMs through on target, what is the point of the LRASM? Why not just launch an equal number of ER Harpoons or NSMs after draining SAMs with MALDs
Greetings to ALL Grim Reapers!! I've been playing catch-up over the last few weeks and watching as the core game and your tactics have been evolving, very nice to see and certainly much more realistic now. A few points to mention, dammit Cap I DO watch the videos all the way to the end. Also, drink more Lemon/Ginger tea (with honey) and try some zinc tablets. Bird, Poushh, Dark, Simba - excellent flying, though maybe you should decide in game between yourselves who is to target the Awacs each session? Also, is it possible to dedicate one person for each side as Naval/Ground commander? Then tactics/strategy can change and update in-game? Finally - great job over-all, being a former military and avid board games strategist this is really nice to see everything in colour, motion and with nice details!!
The problem I see with this setup is U.S. Doctrine. In short, there is no way in hell the U.S. would send piloted planes in first in an era of cruise missiles and drones.... that being said, that fixes your issue with the initial attack. The U.S. would send in drones/CM's to target or target saturate in an attempt to knock out power/radar/weapon control sites/weapon sites in that order before sending in piloted planes.
