Thank you for explaining how a cptsd trigger response can look like narcissistic behaviour, but it's actually just a poor little wounded person trying their best to cope. It's very releasing and validating to understand that cptsd wounds do not mean you're a narcassist. My inner child cried with relief at being understood and my adult cried with relief that there is hope. Huge. Thank you.
This also helped me understand how other people can see me when I'm shut down. I was always so confused when people would say I was being disrespectful when I would shut down because I was like I'm literally frozen I'm not doing anything
The fact that you acknowledge all this rules you out as a narcissist. I lived with one with heavy cptsd. Who refused to acknowledge his pain and past and actually figureout a way passed it. They live in selfpitty and manipulation.
The narcissism wasn't in Jim, but in the parents who raised him which made it seem like he was the narc from his intense reaction. A real narc will not take responsibility on how they treat others and Jim took responsibility for his own trigger and how he was treating Brian. I identify with Brian so much and you showed exactly what a shutdown looks like perfectly.
@ethan, yeah the shutdown on the receiving end can feel narcissistic. But once they dug at it further, all parties could see where it stemmed from. Must feel good to unpack all that.
@@avanimashroo kinda sounds like it, but more details would need to be known if what they do is by a trigger or a learned habit. Look at the example of when Jim was describing his parents.
@@gomeztmoore I want to add to your comment by saying they don't genuinely take responsibility because they would only do so if to manipulate others in some way so it wouldn't be genuine. Basically "I'm so sorry" for the millionth time without the actual want to change or to keep the other person in their grasp.
I was married to a narcissist. He would have never acted that way in a therapist's office. He actually said to a psychiatrist that he was happily married whether I was or not so it was my problem. When the psychiatrist disagreed, he seemed to go into a fog. He couldn't comprehend anything he said and wouldn't go back.
Yeah.....I was thinking the same thing. No recognition of personal accountability. Does not participate in therapy. Acts like I am just "dramatic" and we would be fine if I could just not be crazy. I literally rolled my eyes when he apologized in this video because I think I would literally have a heart attack if my husband apologized for something.
After one session, my narc told me that he knew better than the psychiatrist. Our sessions were paid for ahead of time and he didn’t go to the last one. I went to the last one alone and she told me that she could see what was going on from the first session and told me to read the book divorcing a narcissist.
Yeah. Narcissists don't really listen so they don't comprehend a contradiction to whatever story they are portraying at that moment. Real listening requires being able to empathize. They can't do that.
First, thank you for portraying a same-gender couple. Not only was it inclusive, it sidestepped a bunch of societal programming about the "powerful" and "powerless" gender roles. I'm sending this to my sister, who is living this dynamic in her current romantic relationship, and thinking how I will apply it in my own life. Thank you for these videos! I'd watched a lot of professionals talking about narcissism and trauma, but it never quite related to me. When you spoke about "tricky" families, the floodgates opened and I'm seeing my family with much clearer eyes. And my own patterns, of course.
I do think that's one of the reasons why it was so powerful. Oftentimes the anxious person is depicted as a female and the more avoiding person a male.
I’m cishet, this comment is a really eye opening perspective about how gay people needing to see scenarios that sidestep social conditioning about gender. Thanks
Totally. I think it’s interesting how many people assume the “big” personality is the male. As a female, it was my hubby who was yelled at and “brow beaten” by me (not proud of this, but it is true). It was interesting to observe my female friends who-in good conscience-made excuses for and blamed my husband for my bad behavior. Yes, it went both ways, but there is no excuse for abuse.
God this is my ex-marriage. When you said at the beginning that it might be triggering I chuckled but watching him yell and the other guy who got shut-down made my chest get so tight and face get hot. My ex and I could not fix this dynamic. It makes me angry and sad and angry. I would just shut down too. He'd never be able to self-analyze like that though
Mine wouldn’t either. It’s 5 years passed our divorce and he is still blaming me for everything and preventing me from having a relationship with our kid.
So good to see the difference between Narcissism and CPTSD... can u create this same scenario of couples in which one is a Narcissist and other one is a Codependent or Emotionally Abused. Can't wait to see a role play video like that!
Omg, yes. I dissociate all the time during fights, and I am always curious to see how it plays out to other people. And when eh was like "I'm coming up with nothing" about memories about his mother yelling at him, I could relate so much!
I like that Jim gets really angry and yells, but is not a narcissist - he reminds me of me, and I think people sometimes don't feel like people listen to them or understand them unless they freak out. And there's a lot of fear and reaction to threat in there as well.. he feels scared of being out of control with money, quite understandably.. People see anger and think "what a psycho" but imo it's a threat response - all that adrenaline would have helped with fighting and trying not to get eaten by animals (back in caveman times)..
That's my exact experience. I feel ignored, unappreciated, misunderstood, often accused or put into powerless situations where I am at the butt end of situations that disfavor me. I am usually a freeze/FIGHT response, I get really triggered and upset and defensive but I kinda sink into the ground. I can COME ACROSS narcissistic when I'm trying to advocate that I think I deserve love or to be seen or whatever the exact trigger... but of course I would when I've felt the total OPPOSITE my whole life. But then what the other person can do, is they remain their composure, and now the argument isn't about what it's about - it's NOW about my big emotions and how that invalidates me and they win, apparently, because they're quiet.
I love how you talk about narcissistic behavior being a trauma response! My partner would freak out/ shut down/ be angry every time I started crying. I believed he was a narcissist and told that by others... but then we started doing family of origin work which made all the difference. His mom was terribly manipulative and treating him like a surrogate spouse- using big emotional fits to get attention/ her way. Ive seen her use crocodile tears and his response as an adult child and it alllllll made sense. We were able to heal
Outstanding! I wish I'd had a trauma-informed therapist like you when I needed one instead of fumbling around in the dark with traditional CBT and scouring self-help books. Skits such as this are extremely helpful as illustrations of common behavior patterns and the clinical analyses that follow them are just frosting on the cake. Bravo!
It describes my last relationship. Her rage, my loud voice to argue back. It could drain all my energy. At one stage, I didnot even want to go home, I was sitting in a park afterwork until 8pm. Crazy.
I rage when I argue with my narcissist mom, but she ignores my texts and waits until we are in front of someone to ask me about what I’m angry about. Then of course I look crazy and when I leave she gets to talk shit about me with whoever witnessed.
This was my boyfriend when he was holding and sitting on top of me, so i couldnt leave out of the discussion, so i screamed for help, then he immediately sat down normally besides me and then his parents rushed in and I was cryin, now I was lookin like the crazy one who just screamed for no reason
This is Brilliant Patrick. I think Jim imitates some of the narcissistic reactions of his parent, but he himself is not a Narc and is aware that his behavior is problematic and is willing and able to make changes. I really appreciate the deeper dive into the freeze response as I've had a tendency to leave my body all my life. Turned into Fibromyalgia.
I had NO IDEA how triggered I was over our financial situation as a child, until I literally broke down crying at, "we were poor, not because we HAD to be, but because my parents were terrible with money."
Wow! This editing and role playing is impressive. Thanks for taking the time to put this information out. Very helpful! Also, I want to add that I like how neither partner was targeted as the "bad one." "Trigger city" seemed to call them both out on having different ways reacting negatively and refocusing to make positive changes. I look forward to more videos from you!
My whole life I swung between Jim and Brian's response --- reactive and raging at some times, and completely frozen at other times --- because my brain never knew what was going to help me feel safe. When I wasn't in freeze mode (or straight up dissociation mode), my mom used reactive abuse against me a lot, and as a kid I was manipulated and pushed to points of mental devastation over and over again, until the only thing I had left was rage. And I could never understand why my father didn't see what I was angry about, because why I was angry was so obvious to me --- but now I'm realizing that he grew up with abusers who screamed, so my reactive anger could definitely be really triggering for him and make him freeze. Now I realize my narcissistic mom was playing my trauma response off of his trauma response the whole time :( I went to therapy because I hated who I was --- both the points where I was frozen and vulnerable and points where I was reactive and out of control --- and because I really didn't want to hurt anyone else with my reactivity. I've really been able to cut down on the reactivity a lot, and I'm so glad, but it took really understanding my triggers (for me, a huge trigger is being gaslit) and distancing myself from my whole family. My mom is a narcissist, and my dad gaslights me to maintain his denial --- and since going no contact with her and since really distancing from him, I gave my brain the chance to learn how to grey rock better. Still working on myself tho, and one really good tip I learned from someone online is not to shame myself for my anger, but instead to redirect it healthily and integrate it as a healthy emotion. Invite it inside myself, and then ask my rage what it needs, and then i find that act of self parenting my own emotions to help me have more control over them.
Thank you for this lovely sympathetic realistic portrayal about the difficulty of being cptsd. No excuse for behaviour but someone wounded needs help not judgement
Patrick was able to portray both roles so well that I can relate to both. I have been both people in this fight. It took years to get passed this style of fighting.
Ok wow this was an incredible session and I got lost in the story as If it was a movie. You're a talented actor, director, writer, cameraman and everything in-between.
Woah the anger triggered my inner child. I had to get up and distract from anxiety for a minute. I love how they both apologised and realised that neither party is narcissistic
Brian and Jim both remind me parts of myself that were carried over from having to deal with my parents’ terrible financial decisions well until their 50s and still not changing at all. The role play made the dynamic so clear. Thank you for the awesome work!
Such a great helpful video! I really appreciate the point about narcissism, which unfortunately has become a catch-all for anyone behaving self-absorbed in any way at all, which is not what clinical narcissism actually is. The visual effects to show each partner’s triggering was super effective. Bravo!
I was originally too scared to watch the couple role play videos, since that dynamic tends to be triggering to me (my parents fought a lot growing up, and I still hear about it from my mom especially. screaming and yelling tends to be so triggering), but somehow your videos are super validating and calming anyways even through the tricky situation. Thank you!
Thank you for demonstrating and explaining a shut down. I could really relate to Brian in his response and realized myself how I may come across when I do this. Although, this couple isn’t really real I really was rooting for them because you can see their willingness to make the relationship work out.
Jim is not a narcissist. A true narc would have no accountability for his actions, nor would he acknowledge that he hurt Brian. Brian's feelings are non-existent to the narc. These guys have hope. Jim is also being real and not masking his true self in front of the counselor. If only we were all dealing with such. LOL. I typed this before I finished the video. You said the same at about 22:00. Yes sir.
I think this shows the pivotal point where people do or don't turn into narcs.... These two are willing intrpective and wanting to be empathetic and respectful. They are working at it.... narcs would choose the opposite of all these points and that seems the where the split happens. Acceptance of self equals ability to accept and work hard to have better relationships with others 😊😊
This is one of my favorite videos yet. As a trainee, it’s so helpful to see how you practice trauma-informed techniques in a realistic situation. This kind of video must take so much work! I feel like if I leave this channel and come back in six months you’ll be doing group therapy with 10 Patricks 😄
Yay for you. I was trying everything. I tried taking emotion out ... now i am cold and calculating. Be more myself and any tone or volume shift as aggressive and yelling. To a shutdown response. For me, i just came to conclusion "they will hear what they want to hear and see what they want to" -- i loved them so much but when told how i am feeling, intentions and the contempt in passive aggressive comments as well as long standing grudges that i had understood my mistakes and tried correcting. I gave up. I am not there to fix someone. No foward momentum or seeming effort. The personality profile that they had me take in attempt to help me understand myself... caused me to be put in a defined role. As their negative association grew. I became something wholly different in their eyes. All conjecture because i don't actually know what they were thinking and feeling. I think i became a personification of their past hurts; as stated in video.
The 1-2-3 process is *mindblowing* in this roleplay- seeing partners have such care for each other's wounded inner child and now adult is profound. I hope that I get to experience this kind of acceptance, love, support and mirroring in my life- I'm 57 and I still haven't given up hope in myself, in relating and in the global community's ability to heal and evolve itself out of the abuser/trauma matrix. We're out here, we care, we're not giving up!
Bravo! Best, most authentic therapy role play I’ve ever seen! Hope to see more. I definitely relate to the freeze/fawn response. I couldn’t (and still can’t) ever think of words to respond when something was/is said to me that felt/feels mean, hurtful, spiteful, critical or (to me) just so obviously wrong/not right! You’re a great teacher!!
Patrick thank you for all the work you’re doing on this topic of childhood trauma. I’ve been sitting around the table with my inner kids and selves working these subconscious responses out and how they play out in relationships. Thank you again!
I really relate to the Brian character & I'm amazed at the accuracy of how it FEELS to experience a shutdown. I never realised that's even what it was.
Narcissists have an unhealthy relationship with money. They consider everyone else's money as their own. No problem spending on themselves, but anyone else in the family needs something, this kind of behavior happens.
I love these role-plays! It's so useful to see the couple's dynamic and constructive counseling in real-time. Looking forward to trying the 1-2-3 method with my partner. Patrick, I don't know how you're creating these videos, but it's done in such a convincing way, I actually think you've cloned yourself! Blown away again by your creativity and passion for sharing this content.
Wow, the tunnel vision, words becoming muffled and unable to move/be able to explain yourself because everything's closing in on you. Such a perfect way to describe what happens sometimes when someone's upset with me. I have extreme social anxiety and that's pretty much the perfect picture of a panic attack episode.
I really appreciate you showing the difference between true narcissistic behavior and cptsd. I believe people throw the term narcissistic around way too freely. I think there is more cptsd than people think. Thank you for all that you do. I am grateful ❤
This was incredible just to watch. A meaningful relationship to me ended because we both had CPTSD and were unable to disengage from “trigger city”. Amazing work and healing for me and hopefully any one who feels those pains of triggers and confusion.
Very powerful Patrick. It's scary when it starts out of with the narcissistic discussion. I always see those self protection traits in myself and wonder
Just got out of a relationship where we both had difficult childhoods. I still wanted to continue, but my partner didn't anymore. We did okay for a while, when we both took responsiblity for our own triggers and apologized after a fight. Unfortunately, that changed in the end. She was no longer willing to see her shortcomings and childhood triggers and frequently blew up on me. I shut down and got anxious as a result. In the end she really did show some narc-like tendencies imo. Being overly critical, storming out without explanation, witholding affection, calling me too anxious r scared whenever I reacted negatively to her anger, instead of taking responsibility, blaming fights and the breakup entirely on me. I don't think she is a real narc, but childhood trauma mixed with mental illness can look similar I think. And going in freeze mode is not the best reaction to have. Thank you for this insightful video.
Wishing it works like this in real life. Marraige counseling in my case was a sheer waste of time. I knew she was a narc, and only did it because I could have the satisfaction of trying everything I possibly can.
This is so helpful. My husband and I had very different childhoods growing up. My father had ptsd and was very controlling and aggressive and my hubby had no stability and a very emotionally unstable narcissistic mother. We are constantly triggering each other. I need him to be present and see me and he shuts down and withdraws. I am so excited to see a therapist so we can begin to heal.
I just realized my therapist is using the 1-2-3 step process when I'm triggered during therapy. It is super powerful, just like we see in this video. As always, super helpful!
Thank you so much for this video. I’ve started a routine going to the gym and putting one of your vid’s on. It’s been so helpful, feels like a big self-help pill each time-and this video really gave me a lot of insight into some of my partner/my behaviors.
Wow, I cried periodically during this video. I heard so many things that occur between my husband and I. We're both wounded in similar ways and we project and mirror. We've reached a point where we realize that's the case. The "trigger city" comment made me chuckle because we can both see that happening. I saw attainable healing here too. I saw solutions that I can take back to our relationship. I saw hope. That's why I love your videos so much. The way you explain family dynamics and inner child wounding and healing really resonates with me. Thank you so so much sharing these videos. They are immeasurably helpful.
Really good video . I totally got the freeze bit I always shut down and retreat then pacify any aggressors and to top it all of I feel sorry for them 🤦🏻♀️ it’s so good having it in front of you like this at helps the penny drop and feel about it
jeez, can we just take a minute to marvel at the acting and writing he pulled off. the backstory, and at 13:03 he somehow wrote how Jim comes to the realization, interrupts the format, and Patrick has to get the session back on course, it's like wow. You completely forget they aren't a real couple
My husband and I have been stuck in this dynamic for almost our entire relationship. It is refreshing to know that we can overcome this! thank you for this video!
Its a great example Thank you for creating this Its awesome I've experienced this as a therapist and its scary. I recently had a 6 foot man shouting at me. He was seriously abusive to his wife and had beat people up... Its really tough to operate as a therapist to make sense of people It such beautiful work I'm so grateful to show us how we can facilitate such toxic shame Beautiful empathic listening and so much in it. Bless your work.
My personal experience generational.... My dad intense. Verbal aggressive. Mom passive peace at all cost shut down.. Me fight response brother 1 shut down response brother 2 flight response.... Next generation... Me fight hubby shutdown. Child one fight, child two shutdown, child three fight then shutdown. I wish I had this info 30 years ago.
This video was extremely helpful and I realized I am actually dealing with a narcissist because during the video I was like…”nope, my partner would absolutely stand his ground and stick with his belief system that women (in my situation) are completely careless with money even tho there is no evidence to support that. There is no gray area.. I’ve been TRYING to convince him of my worthiness for 32 years. I’m tired.
I have definitely recently swung from Brian in my past relationship to Jim in my current one. But I’m becoming more aware of my triggers - being lied to and being ignored/disrespected. My brain makes a story of those things and I’m learning to talk through my emotional response instead of acting from the trigger.
Gosh, I felt so frustrated in the beginning! Narcissism? Undoubtedly very high tendencies! The dynamic is so ugly to witness! I so love your role-play WOW! You're such a brilliant therapist who masters his craft!!! 💙 They both were raised by a narcissistic mother for sure! Interestingly, kids of narcissists can either grow to become narcissists (inherently not-good) or empaths (inherently good): two polar opposites. A third alternative is suffering from anxiety, PTSD, and/or addictions. It is still not clear why some children become narcissists and others empaths, but it is more likely related to an element of free-will when they were learning and deciding how best to cope with their harsh environment. I loved the second and third steps! The question is: can this really happen with a person displaying very high narcissistic tendencies, or even worse with NPD?
Wow 😃😄 this is the first time I hear someone explain how trauma can seem like narcissism. I fell flat on my face in love a few years ago, but as I saw these selfansorbed behaviours my mind went wondering. I always came back to it being his trauma being triggered. Still I'm so glad to hear this explanation 😊🙏
I really appreciate this, I often worry that Im a narcissist but after seeing this video, I feel relief because like Jim and Brian- I know I genuinely care. I came to the same conclusion that although Jim wasn't respecting Brian's communication boundaries and Brian was tuning him out, in the end they both show deep concern for each other. Neither are narcissistic. Thank you so much Patrick!
This is the closest to my husband and I that I’ve seen. I’m the PTSD with anxiety (so the loud one who grew up around yelling with tight money), and my husband is the freeze/flight-passive/aggressive with ADD (so the guy that grew up with the dominating mom & older sister that bullied him). Lots of trust issues my way to him vs communication issues him to me. Some very tough years-each of us feeling like the other “just didn’t understand”, leaving us in a bad feedback loop. Honestly the things that have helped are mental health homework, meditation on my part, and meeting in the middle.
Thank you for providing such invaluable videos. As a deaf and visual person, role playing is so helpful. Amazingly it’s all done by the same person! Caption on this video wasn’t available. Could you make sure your videos are captioned?
It’s now captioned...thank you!! Wow this video has really opened my eyes more and given me hope if can find the right therapist. Keep on educating and reaching out...you’re helping many of us!
I used to freeze... but in order to stand up myself I had to start fighting back.. I feel I am constantly fighting and my partner is the freezer. this couple is us omg
This is EXACTLY 100% my boyfriend and me. We had EXACTLY this conversation today! I explained to him why and when my anger kicks in (which I can't handle on my own, yet...but I'm in therapy). As we already know that my anger triggers him to shut down and ghost me, so I get even more triggered, we talked about what I need to stop being angry and shouting. We made a plan that says: My boyfriend will tell me his needs when we both are triggered ("I need to get out of this situation where you are angry and shouting at me..."), BUT he will try not to leave me alone (that's what triggers me) but will instead say something like "I love you, I'll be right back in 5/10/15min and we will work that out. I'm leaving the room for now so I can regulate myself and talk to you. Try to regulate yourself, too or at least hold on and wait for me so I can help you." I CAN offer to wait for some time but I really need co-regulation for now. Hope it will work out.
My husband thinks the loudest one is the one who's right. Whenever he wants things his way he rants and slams his fist on the table. And he gets his way like a toddler temper tantrum. But the cost is huge. Things are his way because he invoked fear. And fear is not respect.
