It can be awkward sometimes but I think of it as developing relationships and people skills. If your coworkers are this deplorable, I completely understand however.
@@danparish1344 As hard as it is to believe, there are some people that have the OPPOSITE of the intended reaction when confronted with workplace gatherings. For some people, these are fun and relaxing events that add value to the workplace. For others, they are grating, irritating, and potentially high stressors. Not everyone needs the same things, and not participating in social events doesn't mean that a person isn't a team player and doesn't know their colleagues. I hate social events at work (and abhor mandatory events), yet I've been at the same job for 20 years. I know my colleagues, my boss, and the people we support quite well, and I am a valued member of the team. I'm so averse to social events (at work) that I would pass on receiving an award just to skip attendance. This doesn't mean that I hate all social events and parties, but they hold no value for me at work. If you want to motivate me at work, just give me a bonus check or a pay raise. I don't need the guff and I prefer to let those who do enjoy it do so without my humbug-ish presence. Edit: I should add, that when my team has events with ONLY us, I am all for it. I love our small group lunches, which have been few and far between in recent years.
I don't make my employees participate in crap like this. I don't even do lunch and learns. Lunchtime is their time, not mine. I always hated that as an employee, and I won't inflict it on others.
@@yunofun that's just it, many companies do these lunch and learns, and they're mandatory. So you end up eating your sandwiich or pizza or whatever cheap lunch they've catered in, and you have to eat it during the presentation. I always hated that. Train me on company time, not my time. That's why I don't have them. That's not to say I wouldn't research things on my own for my job if I wanted to get better at it, but it's messed up to steal someone's lunchtime and force them to do it.
I worked at a steakhouse where we had just been "blessed" with a new manager. He fired one of the servers because she wasn't smiling while at work. Her grandmother had passed away the night before.
Sounds like the consulting company was engaging in wage theft by requiring "team-building" after regular business hours. If it was required, then it's part of work and should happen during working hours.
I've worked plenty of jobs that didn't have a stated per-hour pay rate, or number of hours per week of work. At times, the employer would require extra work, and we were expected to just do it, without whining about it reducing our effective rate of pay. Of course, if they did that too much, employees would leave. They also paid the same even when there was no work to do. At one, I was "on the bench" for over three months at one point, just having to check my email once or twice a day to be sure nothing new had come up. Other than that, I was free to do what I wanted with my day, and got full pay and benefits.
This reminds me of the guy who got fired for not wanting a birthday party. I saw both sides of that one, but ultimately my feeling is this: Work shouldn't be torture, but it doesn't need to be a social club either. If someone's following the rules but not especially effusive, just leave them alone.
I thought about that exact court case. I'm glad the guy got his resolution. Some people just don't want anything over the top, but shouldn't be fired because he said no.
That was me at my last job. I don’t celebrate my birthday because of personal, not religious, reasons. I got badgered all the time. I told them ask HR if you’re so dead set on finding out (knowing they wouldn’t tell 😂). I don’t miss office BS and politics 😂
I had a bank job where the employees sent silly gifs to each other throughout the work day using the company's internal messaging system. One day my manager called me in for a coaching and one of the things brought up is how I don't respond or partake in sending gifs and silly messages with her and my coworkers. I quit the next morning without notice.
When I was in the military, our CO held a “mandatory fun day” at a park and we had to go. I showed up for 5 minutes and then left. You can’t force people to socialize if they don’t want to.
My principal used to chide me for avoiding the gossipy teachers’ lounge during lunchtime. Fast forward: the gossip took a wild turn and focused on the admin. It was so bad that the admin hired attorneys to give warning lectures to the staff. Since I was clueless about the gossip, I was suddenly the golden child. I could eat my lunch anywhere I wanted.
I would not be able to stand a work environment like that. God how depressing it has to be to have to work with people like that. I cannot stand gossipy crap.
@Rich Cran Agreed if it's an hourly position. But in a consulting firm, and he's already had at least one promotion? In Steve's story, it's more likely he was salaried. Otherwise we'd also be hearing about complaints of unpaid work on top of the "not fun" allegation.
@@ronvalley1973 Been self employed most of my life once I finished with the RAF & Foreign Office - couldn't survive in the corporate, arse kissing world.
Now that you mention it, I think I was fired from a job because I wouldn't get in the hot tub with a glass of wine at a work staff retreat. Never been to a retreat before, didn't know what to expect nor brought a swimsuit, and I don't drink. Guess I wasn't too fun huh?
Big corps have same problem with firing someone, even when they lie on job application. Many years ago I new a guy at Ford's in accounting. He hired a young lady that claimed she new Excell and other software. When it was discovered she had lied, every attempt was made to keep her anyway,as her attorney claimed false reasoning for her being fired,,,because everyone lies on appications was his reasoning. My friend would not let it go, made an issue of it and it took almost 2 years but he finally got her fired. He said he fought so hard because of all the people that DO tell the truth, and she took their job.
My cousin does hiring, just makes them do a test to prove their skills at those kinds of programs you should know how to use in an office. Now if you worked on the floor of a factory of some sort, you probably don't need to know Excel. But if you're hired to do paper work, better know how to use spreadsheets, a word processor and anything like PowerPoint if you will have to make presentations.
Whoever decided to listen to her attorney was an idiot. Yes people lie or at least embellish their resume all the time, that doesn't protect you if you are caught though, and more so she lied about being capable of something essential to doing the job.
Totally right! He goes to work to WORK, not to involve himself in their juvenile games. After work is HIS time!! I don't drink, so I would not have gone to their "socual" events either!
"Fun values" is code for book cooking and this guy was not into felony financial crimes. I would look closely at their books before investing or using them.
Way back in the early 1980s I had a superior ding my annual review with “you don’t socialize with us after hours”. I left soon after. She ended up giving birth to a drug baby and fired within a year. Wonder why I didn’t socialize.
@@JohnDoe-qz1ql baby that due to drugs taken by the mother during pregnancy suffered retardation that often present as severe physical and intellectual disabilities.
When it comes to the disc jockey reference...fun IS definable. By listener polls. If people are changing the station because they don't think the DJ they are leaving is fun...then they're not fun. The real reason the analogy does work is because being a fun dj would be part of the job. After work orgies and alcohol binges are not...
There are 2 levels of work in most of Europe. 1) There are at-will employment agencies where you can get fired or walk away on the spot for any reason. These are limited to certain time frames by law like say max 3 years or 3 contracts lasting no more than a year. It's completely temporary in the eyes of the law. 2) Basic employment contract. You usually start with like a half year contract and then extend it for a year several times. After a certain amount of time or contracts, the company is then forced to hire you "permanently" or ditch you when the last contract expires. During said contracts you can only be fired for a just cause but depending on the severity of the cause its mostly just a strike on your record. 3 Strikes and you're out. When you get into permanent employment you basically cannot be fired unless you reach the 3 strikes, and they roll off after a set time. Mostly after 5 years. Each country has their own set of rules but roughly in line with this concept and there are of course exceptions, but the average joe can expect this method regardless of salary. What this guy got fired for is pretty funny tbh because even in Europe this is a big no-no. Kind of weird that it even had to pass the first court.
I'm with the guy, I don't drink at any work events and only speak with people I know. You never know who you're dealing with, I don't even talk to women who I don't know if we're both alone in the same room. It's like a boxing match "protect yourself at all times"
My friend was a sr manager at a major brewery, they didn’t hire interns or contract workers who were good at their job if they didn’t fit into company culture. It is what it is. If you’re not into a company’s culture, you’re better off somewhere else anyway.
@@danparish1344 It should be illegal. Do they do the Job? Yes? Then nothing else should be concidered. He could be the most hated, toxic, evil person outside of the world. But if he shows up on time, and does his job fully, companies should not CARE if he interacts with other people or not. Companies are a Business. They make MONEY they are NOT Clubs, Social Gatherings, and CULTS. People being fired for 'Didn't fit into Company Culture' should immediately get the Company Sued for Discrimination. As they are Discriminating against you, specifically, as a person. Your ideals, beliefs, culture, religion, and disability. Any and every one of those could cause people to not be 'Fitting for Company Culture'. So it's pure 100% Discrimination at it's very core. Sickening that Companies can get away with that.
Being autistic, I find allistic (non-autistic) workplace “team building” to be ableist and exclusionary. I definitely should not be “performance evaluated” on my aptitude at getting drunk and cosplaying romantic scenarios . . . but I often have been evaluated and denied opportunity for that reason anyway.
Technically speaking, it could still be illegal even in at-will states to fire someone for that if the reason the person did not participate in drinking and debauchery was for religious/personal belief reasons, or if the employee had a disability which prevented them from participating. []
Holy Toledo that was a big win for Michigan at The Ohio State! This reminds me of a man who has fired as a truck driver for Budweiser. The man was a long time employee with a perfect record. At a public bar he turned down a Budweiser from a supervisor because he was drinking Coors. Next day he was fired.
He would have been totally fine if it was any other alcoholic drink other than a beer. Why would anyone in their right mind drink a direct competitor's product, at least in front of others from the company you work for.
I don't eat lunch with my coworkers or take breaks with them why would I want to see them in a social setting with them. I rather stay home with my dog.
I'm a little surprised this isn't at least partially being pursued on sexual harassment/retaliation grounds, as mandatory sexual activity would almost certainly violate at least that basic decency
Let's say someone worked at a radio statio. Could they be fired for dropping turkeys out of a helicopter as a Thanksgiving promotion? Asking for a friend.
I remember watching that when I was young and didn't really get the joke. I've never forgotten it though and when I think about it now it is hilarious. That was a great show.
My sister was fired from one of the first McDonald's in Canada because she didn't attend "team events". At a police school I was visiting in France, there was a toast at lunch time and I refused the drink. Was looked at pretty strange. (I do drink - but not before the late evening).
There was one where they had the party even after the man said he didn't want one.. Due to it he had a anxiety attack and they fired him over that. I believe he sued and won.
Edit: My apologies, I must clarify my statement as I was misleading people: Much like in Canada the concept of at-will employment is not recognized in France. In Canada It boils down to an employer is not obliged to provide you with a specific reason for your dismissal however they must include a reason on your record of employment (ROE) reason code M00 would be termination without cause. Most jurisdictions allow employees to challenge terminations without cause. Some are more lenient than others in the regards but upon a valid challenge the employer will be required to provide justification for the termination.
I'm not sure that's entirely true. As far as I'm aware, so long as two weeks notice is given, or two weeks worth of wages are paid in lieu of notice, your employer isn't obligated to even tell you why you're being fired. Unless you have a employment contract, in which case the terms should be stipulated in the contract.
@@jimmy_kirk When terminating an employee in Canada an employer must produce a record of employment (ROE). Block 16 of the ROE must contain a reason code for the separation. The employer chooses a reason from the list of available codes and can provide additional details if necessary. Should the reason code the employer gives not match the reason the employee provides when applying for unemployment benefits service Canada will investigate the issue and make a determination. Producing the ROE is a legal requirement and the reason code cannot be left blank. (I typed a reply a little earlier but it looks like it was deleted, maybe because it included a link to the relevant documents).
@@martinfilion794 I was able to find the relevant documents, and it confirms my original understanding of the law. There is no obligation for an employer to tell an employee why they were dismissed. In Block 16, no reason other than Code M is required when firing an employee. You don't have to specify why the employee was fired, and although you can in Block 18, this is discouraged unless there are exceptional circumstances you wish to convey to Service Canada.
I was told a job in America can fire you for any reason. I worked for a huge retail chain that fired me because I wouldn't sleep with 3 female coworkers. I got out of it for a while because I got engaged to a coworker. After I broke it off for being cheated on, the problem popped back up and ultimately got fired for it
Whoever told you that was way oversimplifying. We do have a law called Title VII of the Civil Rights Act which forbids employers from sexual discrimination (including sexual harassment, retaliation, firing employees for refusing to have sex, discriminatory hiring/firing practices, etc.). Businesses get sued all the time under that law for retaliating against employees who report sexual harassment, refuse to have sex, refuse to perform sexual favors, etc.
Like the other comment says, there are some laws, but in order to fight it, you have to prove it. The real reason might be that you refused sexual activity, but the boss will claim you didn't get your work done. The boss can assign you as much work as they want, so they can assign an impossible amount to make you fail. This is considered retaliation, which is usually specifically forbidden by company policy, but again you have to prove it. Another common way is to have some ridiculous policy that is never enforced, like you must enter the building by this specific door, but everyone uses the door closest to employee parking; boss never reprimands anyone for this, until you anger them, and suddenly they will write you up for it a bunch of times and fire you for it. And while you try to prove they've fired you unjustly, you have no income to pay the court fees, and if they have to give your job back, they still hate you.
In the United States, people are fired or not promoted because they do not fit in. This has been going on for decades. Plus, right to work states, a person can be fired for any reason.
Yeah, this is very true when culture is important to the company. It’s universal though, current leaders promote you to leadership, and they want someone that is not just good at their current job, but is well liked and a respected authority.
@@danparish1344 You mean well liked by them, they can be a shitstain to anyone else at the company and bad at their job but as long as the superiors like them they'll get promoted. It's possible to be unpromoteable by being too good at your job.
My experience in "At Will" employment states is that means "At Will" to document. Most firms don't want to face potential legal challenges to dismissals. To mitigate that, managers document to employees their performance issues. That way any dismissal can be justified on performance grounds.
I used to work at a small company that had a holiday lunch for the employees, usually at a local restaurant. Every year, the owner would single out several people who were called to sit in a chair, get a personally "chosen" gift and he then proceeded to "jokingly" humiliate and degrade them in front of everyone, while we were all expected to chuckle and go along. It was so inconsiderate and unprofessional, I just stopped showing up, as did several other employees. We all knew our year might be next.
Not partaking in alcohol and promiscuity? Sounds like he was sacked for not being French enough, which I thought was a perfectly legal way to get rid of someone in France.
Hi Steve You talked about DJ's being fired for cause. I remember back in the 70's when I was a young adult living Jacksonville, Fla. We had this late night DJ that ask all the girls in radio land to set on their radio's. He then made a slurping noise and then said AH thanks girls. He was gone the next day. Lawrence
There was another DJ (back in the 50s) who followed up the Bulova Watch commercial with a mooooo! sound effect and "whats the matter cow, you got a bullova time?" He was sacked but then hired by a top advertising firm to write copy.
After quitting all alcohol, mainly beer, for good and then finding craig beck the stop drinking expert on yt after quitting, he basically said,...alcoholics like to associate with like minded idiots...which is so true, my god!
I don't do bar based after work engagement activities. I always suggest bowling because one doesn't have to be good to have fun. And 99% of bowling centers have a bar. Sho those who want a beer can have it.
In most places around the world, it's not about contract but law. Unfair dismissal is ingrained as part of our laws here in Australia, and I suspect france too.
I've got you on this one Steve! "What if" I hire a Professional clown and they fail to satisfy that role? I should be able to fire the guy for not being fun enough.
Dunno, if you hire Puddles the Clown, I don't think he's funny. But damn, can he sing! But then, if you hired Pennywise, I dunno if you'd be alive to fire him. lol
I can't stand any employer who requires you to be "happy" at work....work is not a happy place...work is the "blackmail of survival" as Raoul Vanegeim put it, and requiring you to be happy while you're being exploited by wage labor is just sadistic
I knew a women worked in a bank The bank would not give her a promotion because after work the employees went to the bar and partying. She went home have supper with husband and kid. The bank said she was not a team player
A dj's job can be classified as an entertainer, so in that case being fun although difficult to measure, can be a metric of a kind. I suppose though they would use some sort of polling to figure out what ppls opinions are of that person like a performance review.
I knew someone that worked for Hewlett Packard. She said they had to go to Dave and Busters to play games (basketball and whatever else they had there) and they weren't team players unless they played those games for their so called team player event. So yes I can see this happening here. FYI: this was 20 or so years ago.
Nothin worse than mandatory 'fun' 'team building' work requirements. I am a bit of a curmudgeon and do not like my co-workers. I respect their rights to do what they want, I just want the same respect to be left alone.
My wife got a negative review from her manager, because she didn't go to bars and drink with the department. Fast forward a few years, my wife had transferred to a new department, and that manager had left the company. He eventually applied for a new position there. The VP above my wife contacted her (as well as others who had worked under this guy) for her opinion about hiring this guy. She told the truth about that review all those years ago. He did not get hired back into the company.
This would also violate his freedom of religion since many seriously religious people wouldn't engage in excessive drinking of alcohol and/or sexual promiscuity.
This is my boss! We travel about once a month, and he constantly degrades me when I refuse to drink or go to happy hour. It’s so bad that I’m worried he’s going to give me a bad review. This guy orders drinks for me when I go to the restroom at dinner and he knows I’ve been in recovery for over 13 years. How do you get to a high level management role and not understand that some people don’t drink for a variety of reasons, but I have to explain myself almost every time 😂
