This is a very thorough and informative comparison, Mike. Top work. I'm very appreciative of your efforts to add another quality data point to the knife steel community. Seems like your results are fairly consistent with Jim's testing...very similar performance, with 10V having a slight lead.
Thank you Greg. Slightly larger performance difference between Jim's result and mine, but they are close. But it is different tests with different parameters, so that would be expected. I do think it's fair to say that generally, 10V should be slightly ahead though. However, like I said in the video, these steels hold an edge so long that you really shouldn't notice a difference in use.
K390 and Maxamet, both outperform CPM S110V in edge retention (I'm not sure but maybe also ZDP-189) but at the cost of being not so stainless. I got all of them.
@@newhuskytwenty yes, Thats the problem with those you list, they rust much faster. So if you are in humid environment, you want to carry in pocket sweating or food processing. S110V is the way to go!
I think you had mentioned it to someone in the comments. A viewer was asking you "what's the best slicing steel". You should check Phil Wheeler - he's a custom maker in CO. He makes amazing knives www.wheelerknifeworks.com have a great weekend!
Kudos on the time and thought you put into this comparison. I feel that you addressed and minimized as many variables as possible, while keeping the time commitment reasonable. No doubt your profession is highly technical in nature.
After months of having the K2 and just using a ceramic hone to bring it back to a good edge, it finally came time to sit down and sharpen it. I use the Edge Pro Apex and had a bit of trepidation because I had zero experience of 10V... Long story short I was stunned by the result. Currently the K2 is sitting away in a Spyderco pack bag because I'm honestly nervous to EDC it again it's so sharp.
Jeez! You really took jumps on those strops and s110v fought back!! Hair whittling at .025? You have really progressed. The thought of hair whittling at 5-3 micron is insanity. But I’m not too far away
Spyderco will always be my favorite company because of their willingness to experiment with new steels, but they tend to be pretty conservative with their heat treat. The difference between CPM M4 at 62-64 HRC and CPM M4 at 67 HRC is pretty significant in terms of edge holding, but I realize they don't want an influx of chipped blades sent back to the factory from brainless users.
Elliott Atwell you also have to consider the models. The GB1 and GB2 are work knives. The extra toughness helps. The Mantra however, could use the higher RC... that knife is not made to be tough, it's made to slice.
Oh absolutely, but let's face it the majority of people buying the GB1 and GB2 are just going to be cutting some boxes and using it for general light tasks, not as a work or beater knife. Even with the mantra Spyderco would want to err on the side of caution, though CPM M4 seems to be pretty damn tough even at 67 HRC, definitely beats HAP40 at the same HRC in terms of toughness. I haven't actually used the Mantra before, how's the thinness behind the edge compared to say a military?
They are very similar steels, but one is a stainless steel, one is a tool steel. Stainlessness is a big factor for me in an EDC , but the extra toughness in 10V makes it compelling choice. For a pocketknife, the choice for me all other factors like hardness being equal is s110v because while it's not as tough, it's tough enough for the purpose. I'd like to see some lc200n laminated 10v and 15v stuff. That would be sick.
The Military S110v, is absolutely perfect imho, it is the one knife to rule them all,, I've had mine around a year, and I'm sure it will last me the rest of my life,, just faultless,,,, 👍
great video love the hair whittle.i'used cardboard in tests since the 70s & very aware how much effort is required.maybe not very scientific; friends ask why i use card i tell them that card dulls a blade faster than just about anything.i do'nt want to used a product that takes hours before the knife wont shave hair very nice work with camera most videos dont focus good enough to see the curlicues of hair
Thanks. Cardboard can really take a toll on the edge, especially heavy cardboard. I recently upgraded my phone so that I'd have a better camera. I haven't looked at the last few videos on an actual computer, so I'm not sure how the look, but hopefully the quality got better.
10V reminds me of M4 a little, but it's more difficult to work with. Also, 10V's edge retention is far greater then M4 when cutting soft abrasive materials.
+Big Brown Guy I'm not sure how well it would work for wood carving. ESEE's 1095 does great on wood, and their steel is kind of the opposite end of the spectrum from 10V (low carbide, 55 to 57 RC I think, with very high toughness), so I question how well 10V would do. I don't have much time using the steel on wood.
I have done extensive testing with A11 (CPM 10V) and it's very stable, much more than people would think. It's extremely strong and I haven't seen any stability issues at all with it on wood and I have tested a variety of knives in A11.
I realy like the Blurple PM2. Seems to stay sharp a long time. For an every day carry knife, I think stainless is better, for me anyway...great vid Mr. C!
How is your Spyderco ultra fine bench stone holding up? Seems like it gets lots of use and I am curious about how clean you get it after use and if it is staying flat. Great vid as usual!!
It's holding up great. It's a great finishing stone for high carbide steels. It's ceramic and doesn't wear, so it stays flat. To clean it, I just put a couple of lines of honing oil on it and wipe it with a paper towel. The trick is to clean it after every use. Don't let it get over loaded with steel. I use the UF bench stone, but I want to get the bigger one.
If you can sharpen these, maybe you can help me out. Any experience with recurved blades? I managed to put a paper-cutting edge on my Szabo with my Sharpmaker (40 degrees) but I can't seem to do any better than that. Any pointers?
AkaiShizuku I did a video on sharpening a karambit that you could look at. However, when I did that video, that was really me using what I had on hand. If I was to do it today, I would go about it differently. I need to get around to doing a video on something like a hawk bill.
Outstanding review. Just picked up a PM2 in s110v and looking forward to putting it through its paces. Question (but realize you may not be checking comments on this 2 yr old vid): I’m not deluding myself into thinking I can learn enough about sharpening to this degree when I need a touch up or re-sharpening. Does sending it back to spyderco for a tune up when the time comes seem adequate, or do you think I should look for an expert like yourself to re-sharpen? Tricky question potentially cause I don’t want you to step on toes of the manufacturer’s ability to get it hair splitting sharp....but curious.
JACK ATTACK flat or hollow ground refers to the primary grind of the knife. (Primary grind is the beveled portion of the blade between the edge bevel and the spine.). If the primary grind is ground flat, it’s a flat grind. If it concaves in, it’s a hollow grind. Not sure off the top of my head about the thicknesses of the blades, but Spyderco lists the specs on their website.
Cool. I have a PM2 in 110V but was having second thoughts because of that. I put it against a BD-1 and a cruwear blade and, while it is hard to quantify, they all seemed to perform slightly differently. The cruwear bit in and ran on wood the best. The 110V was a little sharper and wanted to slice more, but felt harder, and bouncier, like it glanced off the wood rather than biting in, and didn't want to go as deep. The BD-1 was the worst of the bunch, bit a little more then 110V, felt softer, but then would hardly cut in at all, too dull. They weren't all the same knife, but similar (PM2 and Manix), just factory edges.
I am very sensitive, but to me I noticed a big difference. Not as much between the 110V and cruwear (there was a difference, but both were adequate), though between those and the BD-1 it took half as much energy to do the same carving. Again, factory edge, if I did what you did and really knew how to sharpen I'm sure it would have performed better.
All the tea in China Bd-1 will have significantly lower edge retention then S110V and probably significantly less then CRU-WEAR on soft abrasive material, but it should be very easy to sharpen. The sharpening on the knives would be responsible for what you were noticing. Not all factory edges or factory angles are the same.
So you think if i put the same edge on all of them the bd1 would have performed more closely to the other two? It was hard to tell what was due to the steel and what was due to the edge or blade geometry.
Thanks for the video. Was looking for a way more durable knife steel for cutting Geo fabric at work for road construction as my trusty leatherman needs sharpening every 2nd day. At least s110v should get a week or so of hard use. Hard to get my brain around the amount of cardboard you cut and still razer sharp!
Damag381 glad the video was helpful. Yeah, sometimes when I think about the numbers after the fact I'm a little dumbfounded. Not to mention, if you spread the wear over the whole blade, you should get even more out of it, because I'm only using about an inch of blade in the test.
Just starting to watch your video. Looks great. Thanks for being so in-depth and analytic and trying to do some good testing. One thing I will note is that you ought to really use the same knife to test the steel, otherwise blade and handle geometry will come into play. Military and Para Military 2 are both available in many steels through sprint runs and exclusives, so those would be good mules to work with as test platforms.
I see you did minimize that variability by push-cutting in one part of the blade, but it still may be a factor, i.e. one blade is more curved and so will "slice" more than the other, even isolated to one area. That is also not to mention the blade height and edge thickness. I think this is a fantastic test you did, but just really needs to be between two militaries, for example, and would take it to a new level of accuracy.
I understand. If am able I'll try to help you out. I am sure I could at least send you $10 or so if you want to start taking up a collection from viewers to buy knives for testing. Otherwise, when I win the lottery, I will buy you all of the knives.
All the tea in China that's very generous, but I couldn't take money from viewers. It would be cool if Spyderco sent me knives to test and review, but I'm just happy with them putting out such a great product.
Can we just call the s110v Milli the milli 2 now? Apparently, there isn't ever going to be an update to the milli name, but this knife uses the same new hardware package for the torsion screws, and the bigger lanyard hole. It also loses the back spacer and uses much larger (thicker) spacers. Any thoughts about how it handles compared to previous gen with the back spacer, more or less sturdy?
Rob Kahla it handles just fine. I think they made these changes to all the Militaries they're selling, but I'm not positive. But who said there would never be a Military 2?
Michael Christy nobody has said that, I'm just stretching a little bit I guess. We're up to the para 3 now, and still military 1, but they have made changes (didn't know that was on all the new ones, thought it was just the 110's) with no new name. Btw, love the videos, just stumbled on them a couple days ago, and subscribed, excellent work!
Rob Kahla thank you. Glad you like the videos. If there's enough demand by the customers for changes to the Military, I think Spyderco will do it. I know there's a lot of people who want to see a tip up option on the knife.
As always a great video Mr. Christy. :) I would like to ask does s110v strop back to sharpness easily after light use? After a fall through on buying an Urban in k390, I'm trying to decide between a Spyderco UK PK in s110v and a Manix 2 LW in bd1n. I don't sharpen really well but I do strop to keep my knives sharp. I am a bit worried on the s110v , hence the bd1n. Thanks for all you do on your videos.
chipdouglas35 S110V would probably be more prone to chipping given the composition, but I've never found either steel to be chippy. I haven't had a problem with either one. I've heard a lot of stories about S30V having chippy edges from the factory, but I usually sharpen right out the box. Although, the last couple of knives I bought in S30V, I used roughly out of the box to see if they would chip on me, and they did not.
Taylor Ung if your angle is already set and you're using the diamond and UF in the process, to bring S110V to a good level of sharpness isn't too hard.
I sometimes touch up my S110V Manix with the medium and fine stones. They....do the job. Slowly. I really need to buy the diamonds and UF stones though.
david drake Instead of switching scales, I was thinking just swap blades, but I don't know if they've made changes to the tang and pivot area on the blade. I haven't taken an old or new Military apart, so I'm not sure.
S30V should have higher toughness then S110V. (Keep in mind the difference between toughness and wear resistance.) Just last night I resharpened my S110V Military. I noticed that the very tip was chipped off. It was not a big deal. I simply formed another tip sharpening the knife. What's interesting is, I don't remember doing anything with the knife that would have caused it. I wouldn't expect S110V to be overly chippy or weak, but with the difference in HT now, we will see. I have a PM2 coming in today in S110V. I'll have to see how that does, and put that Military through more use.
Out of curiosity could you show the fastest way you can get a hair witting edge? If you can swing it I would definitely watch a video start to finish on you sharpening. I was also wondering if you skip stones and some strops could you get the same result in sharpness? And if so at what cost to the edge holding If any at all...
A few months back I did a video titled, "sharpening with pocket sharpeners". Originally, that video was going to be one continuous shot. After recording and watching it, I decided not to post it because it was so boring to watch. I think the total time was 15 minutes, which included beginning commentary and whittling a hair at the end and a little closing commentary. I edited the video down because it was too boring. I might do one using a steel that cuts down on the time, but it's not real high on my list of videos I want to do.
You can skip stones and strops, but some steels do better with that then others. Steels like S90V and S110V don't react well to it. Other steels, you can definitely get away with it. In the video I did on 4V, I believe I made a huge jump in the stones.
One is SS while other isn't - this is huge. SS requires less care. Price also playing a big role. Last time I've checked K2 was about $208.37 & FREE Shipping on Amazon, while Military CMP S110V was $173.97 & FREE Shipping there. Considering all this I'd choose the Military in CMP S110V SS.
Actually, I would choose 10V because it's not stainless, but that gets into the lower chromium content and the intricacies of sharpening. Price is not a concern for me when they're this close in price. But go for the Military if you like it. They're both amazing performers.
I agree: less time needed for sharpening to the perfection plays a role, but constant need to care for the non-SS blade, so it's not getting corroded and higher price of a K2 would steer me towards the Military. If I needed a knife that is. I think I have enough expensive knives and just don't need one more.
I noticed that you have changed your sharpening skill? You used to stroke the blade on one direction, now you've changed into back and forth movement. Want to know the reason, can I try back and forth like you do? I am a beginner. Thank you!
Geto Leper I've found that holding the stone in hand and sharpening using a back and forth motion is the best way to do it. It's also a more difficult way to go about it. Of course you can try it. I would start with a knife that's inexpensive.
Geto Leper honestly you should look up and try different styles to find what works and is comfortable for you there's a bunch of ways to do it right just make sure that you're using Consistent angles throughout the process
if you want longer edge retention you could just sharpen up to 400 grit silicon carbide. or so thats what i read here www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/793481-Ranking-of-Steels-in-Categories-based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope excellent testing tho!
Yeah, I'm very familiar with Jim Ankerson's testing. The testing he's doing and the testing I'm doing are fairly different, but I think both are good data points on any given steel.
Michael Christy yea, use of the knife outdoors in damp,bloody, or salty environments ,stainless would be what you would want correct? And still hold a super good edge? If all I did was cut boxes then I guess I would choose the other.
Big Kyle give it a try. If by salty, you mean anything with the ocean, I would suggest serrated H1 or LC200N. If you’re talking about skinning animals and that type of thing, try S110V with a coarse finish.
Michael Christy I got a couple Atlantic salts, great knives. It’s not that I think s110v is any better, just suits my needs better. Mite give one a try though.
Big Kyle S110V is much better in edge holding then H1. Although, it would be an interesting comparison to look at the cutting life of serrated H1 against S110V.
I didn't like your sharpening man, you sharp the knives in the air, that's wrong.One rule always sharp on surface not in the air holding the stones or DMT in one hand!
