Craftbot FLOW IDEX XL Update - THE PINS WERE BENT! 

"I';m not mad, I'm disappointed" ooooh they are gonna feel that!

I have to say, the comments of people saying they also had problems is really concerning - the problems seem to run way deeper than we were made to believe. I have no doubt they are improving with time, but what happens to the early adopters (who aren't YT'ers and get overnight parts and a full spare machine shipped).

Love the shirt! Have one myself. Just got into 3D printing myself. Currently FIGHTING with an Ender 5 Pro. Fix one thing, find 2 more things that need to fix... It sure as hell has been a learning experience. You channel has helped me out A LOT in discovering and fixing these issues. Keep it up!

You are incredibly patient. Here’s to hoping it works great!

We have one of these since 2 months ago. Spent a lot of time to get it commissioned. They clearly have quality control issues, our machine had the set screw for the right extruder filament gear overtightened (hex slot ruined). Also one of the right extruder hot-end hex screws is eating its threads and will need replacement. A few other practical observations: - Despite the automation, this is not a beginner printer. You need considerable expertise to work through eventual issues. There are apparently only a few users as there is not much help online. - Overall the machine is built like a tank and you can see quality design touches everywhere. The automatic calibration is a must-have. - Extruder shroud re-assembly is delicate work. Think of it as attaching the display flex cable of an iPhone. If you misalign the shroud and use any force you will get the results in this video: bent pins and de-soldered guide pins. That is not shipping damage but forced assembly. - Don't think the nozzle is pre-clogged, there's just some filament left in the feed channel (filament was unloaded cold after factory test?). Just heat the nozzle and use one of the smaller hex keys in the kit to force the filament into the nozzle (after releasing extruder gear pressure) - When you swap a steel nozzle to print non-toy materials, it will be higher than the brass one. So swap both of them even if you use the right extruder for support. If the nozzle heights differ by more than 0.1? mm you need to move the right extruder manually. It does not work like in their instructions (gravity drop to the bed), you need to actually force push it down to touch the bed. - We have had nothing than trouble with PVA supports. All PVA we have tried has been flexible enough to get stuck in the filament sensor aperture. Results in terrible clogging that needs extruder disassy to clear. If you release the extruder tension it does not extrude properly. Just use HIPS for support. - Firmware (latest of course) has weird issues with the whole printer freezing with no apparent reason (just stops and extrudes a biig blob, or makes weird moves and the freezes completely). Suggest power cycling before a longer print. - The remote UI does not (yet) replicate all the features of the touch screen so you cannot really adjust the print job remotely. And the camera is too low resolution (cheap?) - Our biggest gripe is the lack of z fine-tuning. The automatic calibration leaves z too high. To get stuff to stick to the bed we currently need to apply a global gcode offset in S3D - Get spare silicone socks for hot-ends (they break easily when you swap nozzles). Also get spare bed probe pins, the machine eats those whenever you crash the left extruder

This makes my $1800 T-Rex 3 IDEX machine look amazing in comparison. 400x400x700 build plate and I upgraded the extruder to use BMG dual geared drives. The stock extruders worked great in a 24/7 environment for 3 months straight.

I wonder if someone bought this printer, if they'd have the same experience you've had with Craftbot replacing it completely? This is why I struggle with stuff like this, I have had very differenct experiences with custom support than what youtuber/streamers seem to get. For $4000, that is a riduclous price to pay for something that just..doesn't seem to work right. I'd expect that from my $300 QQ-S or $200 Q5...not from a $4,000 IDEX.

Thanks Joel, you saved me hours of frustration. Im glad I found these videos before saying yes to an invoice. They mirror the experiences of the very sparse threads on reddit where people are having issues.

Joel, great update video on this product, I must say I do love all the editing Sean is putting into the videos and up close shots of your troubleshooting ! Thanks you for your Honest reviews and transparency in this experience. Keep up the great work --- Happy Extruding !

Holy cow Joel. You have the patience of Job! I'd have been done long before this point. Thanks Bud. I hope to make it to your live stream Wednesday.

A connection like that should ideally be made with pogo pins and not spring pins

Ha ha, Thank you Joel. I would really like this printer, but I want to wait until I can be sure they have all the bugs worked out. Until then, I'll keep rocking my Dreamer. Keep up the good work, and hello to Shawn from another Bay City resident. (Well...munger) lol

Thanks to your video I will be holding off on the machine. I am hoping to see reviews in a year from now indicating there are no issues.

Thank goodness you aren't afraid to call them out on the shortcomings. RU-vid is FULL of patronizing "reviews" that are not objective at all. This seemed honest. And the reference to Angus' review adds credibility.

Hey Joel, another awesome video. I hope the new machine goes better because, on paper, it looks like an amazing machine.

I think I'll stick with my Prusa I3MkIIIS. Those guys are awesome. I've had problems occasionally - but the tech wizards at Prusa have always stepped right up to get me going again. I'm into my 14th month of printing with it, and it's still going strong.

I just got a prusa mini yesterday, and I love it so far!

I'm sooo glad you posted this. We have the exact problem with the exact machine at work and I thought I was the one that screwed it up, being a newbie. I'm hoping that the solution is just to disable the FMS on the right print head. I'll check out your stream to see how your new machine works out. Our machine did about a dozen prints before having issues on the right side. Please do let us know if the original machine works fine with the FMS disabled on the right side.

There is 2 problems here: The design which lets this problem to occur (the alignment pin shouldn't be able to detach from the solder if other fasteners hold it well in place); I don't fully agree that it's a shipping problem The fact their replacements had problems already. I suspect that filament in the nozzle is a higher temp material hence why it didn't budge when attempting to extrude; the fact it wasn't removed prior to sending it makes it seem like the replacement was done rapidly for damage control rather than quality control in mind.

Nice video Joel ! 👍

I have this printer as well. I’ve had to spend a lot of mo why on spare parts so I’m envious of your experiences getting things replaced for free.

I encountered some jams as well, along with a few more serious issues. Lucky for me the jams were cleared successfully by the machine itself. I guess your jams were tougher to clear. I think for the price this printer comes with too many issues. I hope the company can fix these issues so other customers will not get frustrated.

Had the same bent pins issue on delivery. Several temp driver errors. Fan issues. Parts were replaced, but still have some print warning errors. When it works it prints well.

This sounds like the printer I was sent to review. It has/had several problems with it but the thing is that the unit they sent me has been already used at an exhibition. So I had no idea if my problems were due to it being used or if new machines would have the same issues.

7:46 "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. Such a dad thing"

Wow. I was looking at purchasing one of these but I think it might be wiser to pass this one up 🤷‍♂️

I have one of these. My print bed is actually warped (bowed up at the left and right edges). After calibration my first layer z-height is perfect near the center but the nozzles actually scrape the surface at the extreme right and left edges. This has happened gradually. It did not do this when I first got it. Craftware initially blamed it on a faulty BL-Touch calibration. Then they told me to downgrade the firmware. I finally sent photos of a straight-edge laying across the bed to show the bow. After a week, they have not responded. I really want to love this machine, but... I hope they get their act together. It is a beautiful piece of hardware when it works.

Great video Thanks for sharing👍😀

YES! It's another mad Robo kind of video. So sorry for the companies but I always have to laugh so hard about your reactions to it. :)

Is anyone else amused by the fact the “filament blockage” tune it plays is the first few notes of the X-files theme?

Hey Joel, I have 4 of these machines and they are workhorses. First thing use S3D or Ideamaker for your profile, 1000%’better results than Craftware ( I use S3D). I get you have had issues but I just havent had the same experience and there are many that havent had issues. This printer has so much potential hopefully the new one is much better.

wow. that was the most diplomatic way of saying "fuck this thing" I've ever seen

Honest opinion, that's what I like about you Joel! Great video

Sounds like "shipping damage" is the new "excuse" for bad tech... The machine looks amazing but... My much cheaper HicTop I got as a return keeps chugging things out... Shows cost =/= best experience...

It's not isolated. I just got mine last week and have the EXACT. SAME. PROBLEM. Plus a few more. Craftbot has some work to do to keep me from just returning it, but I doubt I'll get the same level of customer service.

WOW, I guess I'll be sticking with the $300-$700 range printers, at least these work!

Listen. I hear ya. It seems frustrating, but let’s look at the positives here....you don’t need a stylus to use the touch screen....

WELP Joel, one person is an anomaly, but more than one person having issues is a PATTERN #justsayin

My FLOW IDEX XL came damaged with a dent in the front, loose belts, and FMS issues. They said it was damaged during shipping and.... nothing. Didn't get a replacement and took weeks to get help. A great community on Facebook helped with the issues. Sad when the users have to do the job of the company all the time and this shows that they want those with influence to be happy while those of us with no influence are told that the damage was from shipping and get crickets. No offer for replacement, just months of trial and error to get to print a cube.

hahaha i just changed my craftbot nozzle to see this vid, pretty epic imo.

Yikes Craftbot. Also, it was great to meet you the other day, sir!

Have we fallen into a black hole and ended up in 2012? Highly expensive printers that just don't work right? So Rapman 3000!

Every time I see that foxy model on a printbed, the first thing I think is that it is a huge blob of a failed print

9:15 Yes, exactly this. For 4K, I would expect a fully functional unit. What 'I' would receive is a 2 month struggle of unanswered calls, emails and suddenly the company disappears off the face of the earth.

I have a Tronxy X5S and i have been looking for some time now to get another printer. This one was on the list since I started looking. Seems you are not the only one with issues on this one. I guess i will be putting this one on the bottom of the list for now till issues get sorted. Its too bad though.

Is it me or does that error tone sound like the X-Files? It's good that they give you a 5-year warranty, but apparently it really really needs one. I mean I have a $700 ANYCUBIC Predator and I honestly expect it to have the issues that you had. But for a printer that should run out of the box, shipping issues or not, I think that $4000 is a little crazy especially when there are better options in that same price range. Great review showing it with its flaws and all.

It looks to me like the bent pin actually warped of heat (i.e too much current). What do you all think?

I built a full enclosure for my Prusa - you might enjoy watching it :)

These expensive printers can be frustrating. I bought an ultimaker 3 and I had the same problem with a broken cooling fan and heat creep. Now I'm having issue with the PCB in the hot end.

I'm not sure why you and makers muse had so many problems with your printers...I've had the IDEX since March and haven't had any of the problems you guys have had.

After that intro with a story about failures and issues I suddenly started hearing "crapbot"... XD

Hey, Joel, I have some plans for a trebuchet if you need them! LOL

Why was the clip showing bed calibration with a curl of filament out of the tip?

Well, I WAS considering this machine, not now.

I couldn’t find a place to post this so here it is. I have changed both heating element on the extruder and the thermal sensor. When I turn the printer on and turn the temperature up to 210. The temperature does nothing and then I get the error saying E1 thermal runaway printer halted please rest. Should I do a PID to fix’s this issue or could be the main board that has went bad? Any help would be appreciated.

oh, wow.. uhm.. yea.. wow.. Hope they sort this one out..

I see the problem, 8:39 the warning sound is a few notes off from the x-files theme tune. If you get the firmware update that will be corrected, and anytime it mysteriously breaks it will be thematically accurate.

You saved me $3500! thanks!

Oh Joel... remember RoboR2? Lol. RoboR2’s ended up on Craigslist for next to nothing after that. .

Having to strip the extruder down to the gearbox just to clear a jam inside said gearbox is bad design. It's $4000 not $400, there is not much excuse for that sloppy design. Suspect the right extruder jam sensor is connected to electronics with some minor manufacturing fault, eg wrong resistor in a certain place. Will this be the first 3D printer to catch fire, due to Joel getting so fed up he set it on fire himself ?

Idea was great. Except I'd prefer standard E3D compatible parts.

You should use the 7th at 7 clip from Bruce almighty for your stream announcement :)

I own a Craftbot 3, where is the IDEX printer before this one. It wasn't available for long, but it has/had the number of trouble you had. Like others have said, Craftbot didn't seem to send me a new printer like you received. I had to deal with these problems myself, and it wasn't as FUN as your experience. But here is what makes me VERY mad. They haven't updated the firmware since the new printer came out. Check their website if you don't believe me. And my printer still has lots of firmware bugs. Good support, yeah. By the way, I get those clogged filament problems ALL THE TIME, and unlike your printer, mine DOES NOT have ant sensitivity control. I would NEVER go near CRAFTBOT again with a 1000 ft. pole. Even if their new printer is great (It isn't) what about just abandoning all those with the previous model? Glad you could get them to keep sending you new replacement printers, but for normal customers, they don't.

You are the best 3dpn

It looks like Craftbot is going a similar path as Makerbot was a few years ago.

Almost want to cry watching this. Only thing missing was some dramatic music.

Dame thats the end of Craftbot..well on to the next

I wonder what "shipping" damage the new one will have. I've not heard of anybody as of yet to not have some kind of problem with these machines.

Can you share the IDEX profile you used for Dual in Simplify3d Please?

Did you ever do the follow up video on the new one in the box? Where is this printer at now as far as issues?

oof... This makes me question even more if I should just build my own printer. I mean noone is free of flaws but just looking at this I see a lot of things to improve or do different while still keeping the price point.

Highly doubtful the pins were damaged in transit. There is nothing for it to snag against and the other pins would show some signs of damage. This machine has/had a lot of potential but I'm avoiding it because there is just too much proprietary hardware. Sure it has a warranty, but that is machine downtime while you wait for them to send replacement parts, where as most makers HAVE parts ready to go.

To bad.... I have kind of the same trouble with our CB3 as well....

I watched last night's live unboxing/testing of the 2nd machine and it's no longer listed. Do you edit and reupload? I want to watch the moment it topples over on repeat!

My hmi failed after 40 hours of printing. Still working with craftbot to get fixed

I’m actually considering getting an industrial grade index 3d printer, I was looking at this one but after seeing this video, there’s no way in hell I will even consider getting one of these….

Brand new to 3d printing and looking for my 1st printer. Can I get an honest answer? I have an opportunity to get a used (looks in great shape) makergear m2. Price is 600.00 us Was 1200 but he wanted a quicker sale. Should I get that or one from Creality. I have hopes of making stuff like the millenium falcon, space ships, busts of super heroes etc. Watched many of your videos on creality printers and im convinced they might be a good option. Any thoughts. Thanks

Is it supposed to be tuned from the factory? While we're dog-piling on them, that benchy looked rougher than I've seen from Chris Riley in an assembly live stream. I'd expect a lot more from exchanging $3k in hard-earned greenbacks. I can see investing in a much less expensive alternative and have at least $1500 of my time to invest in tinkering. I should have to at all at their price point. Hope the new unit is head & shoulders better then the first lemon.

Nice vid! I hope we will see a solution to the problems. As a fellow Hungarian I am deeply disappointed in the quality of support the fellow guys provided :(

This sounds like the Robo R2 videos.

this is such a highly regarded printer. I really hope they fix these issues. $4k for a consumer printer is steep.

Just disassemble the extruder one more time, if you unscrew the 2 allen screws which hold the spring you will see that one is too long and contacts the other side, so the force of the filament ist low. I had the same issues.

Hello, I would like to know if there is 3d printer made in the USA that is under $400 that has a print area of 12"x12"x12". Thanks for all you do.

The quality of that benchy is abysmal for a $4000 printer. I would be dissapointed if an Ender 3 produced that (disregarding the dual colors of course).

Very expensive, lots of bells & whistles, but QC is crap and it's generally worse than printers costing far less. 10/10 would recommend :D

I hope you get a new bcn3d sigma d25 idex review

Seems like bad luck, i loved my Flow Idex

OMG! I had a nozzle shipped to me that was full of sand. I never created a review about my Craftbot 3. I always thought that it was my fault that it didn’t work right. I also had mine replaced. It was a long journey. In den meantime everything works as it should. But it costed me lots of nerves. Maybe I should record a video about my longterm thoughts about it and what problem I had until I got to the working status with the printer as it is up to date right now.

Thank you for being honest with us. You could have faked it. Thank you very much.

I guess BCN 3D printers if you are looking for idex . That machine looks more polished .

Hey 3d printing nerd do you have a good suggestion for my first 3d printer

Story time with Joel

At least you know they have excellent customer service LOL. Personally, I would stay away from manufacture that uses proprietary parts unless its been tried and tested extensively. Nowadays, I recommend people to get the cheapest printer as your first and then start build your own, until you get into pure PC / PEEK league

We go 2 Craftbot Index flow Xls for our lab at school. RIGHT filament issues NONE stop. I am so tired of taking apart this extruders. I have so many issues.

Hello everyone. Off topic question. My calipers are cheap, and not very accurate. I'm looking for new digital calipers that are accurate, but not $100+. Can anyone recommend a set of digital calipers that are accurate and cost less than $40? Or is that an oxymoron?

Why does this guy look and sound like an alternate universe Markiplier? xD

Between you and Angus, I think this company has blown their chances with anyone connected to the community, and probably just hoping on oblivious corporate buyers at this point.

Just buy makerbot method if you want to buy this. it has great customer service and it has easy slicer.

dude we waited over 2 months for the parts for my craftbot at work... it killed our productions and many sales... they acted like i had to wait or it was my fault because the parts were from somewhere in europe....

See you Wednesday!