The author putting on a quick show of how to drive a 1958 Dennis Loline - fitted with a slow-revving Gardner 6LW and David Brown 4-speed Crash Gearbox.
I had no idea that this batch of Loline 1s had David Brown gearboxes. Were they by any chance originally fitted with Dennis's own strange reverse-via-first box? The two surviving Aldershot & District Loline 1s have one of each: both Dennis-built, one of which is as described above and one of more conventional design. Both have five speeds.
Beautifully crisp, clean-sounding engine and transmission. No clutch-judder on pulling away. People like to say that the Loline is " just a Lodekka built under licence" but these earlier Lolines in particular have a very distinct feel. Good video!
hi great driving,, i love the old crash gearboxes, sorts the men out from the boys. i worked for AEC ltd in the 70s and the lorries were non syncromesh. good luck with this bus
In the olden days it was said you could roll a cigarette between changes. Now days for a bus driver on a driving test to demonstrate proper gearbox control means pressing the right button!
There's nothing wrong with button changes, but to be fair it looks like it took a bit of skill to drive these things. I passed my bus test in 2002 in a Leyland Tiger with First Glasgow, as well as Volvo Ailsa, Volvo B10M, Volvo D10M etc. I loved the simplicity of gear changing and starting the engine up with the touch of a button, and it doesn't make you any less of a good driver.
@@markcaldwell2831 Hm, not sure about that. To have a professional driver have no idea about gearboxes, how they work and what they do is like comparing a lathe operator and someone who presses GO on a CAD cutting. Even if you ignore handling a constant mesh and go straight to synchromesh they ability to understand gear ratios on the open road is a great benefit. Pushing a button might be great driving a No 5 to the shopping centre but descending a steep incline in adverse weather takes a whole new skill set.
I passed my test in 552 OHU 1990. Double declutch was easty enoughh. In together , together 1, 2 3. The best advice I was given was to drive with my ears. I didn't understand that but once you got the hang of lietening o the pitch of the engine and gearbox it was simple. I did most of my test without the clutch and my examiner fondly vcalled me a cocky bastard Haha.
What was a every day way to drive heavy vehicles has vertually gone and the driving standards with it, I ran AECs and Gardner powered ERFs with David Brown gearboxes, I wouldn't employ drivers without these skills as it proved they had no idea of what was going on with the drive line, any driver who had only driven Scanias and Volvo's didn't get a job as they lacked the professional skills needed, it wasn't unusual for a Gardner powered vehicle to do a million and a half miles without the heads and sumps coming off and since I started using a Morris 75/80 semi synthetic oil for the axle and gearbox they to were trouble free, compared to the recomended EP90 oil it seemed like water and I took some convincing to try it but have never looked back, thank you so much for showing this video, it proves there are still some proper drivers out there.
Many of today's bus drivers can't even manage a 'point and squirt' automatic smoothly - let alone a slow revving Gardner, with crash box and no power assistance.
I remember the 1st time travelling on a Southern Vectis Bristol circa 1960 and was amazed to watch the driver changing gear living as I was at the time in SW London where all diesel buses had preselector gear changers. My 1st experience of actually driving an HGV with crash gearbox was in 1969 when driving for Boots the Chemists in a Seden, great fun and much more satisfying than the Commers with synchromesh boxes. I later owned a Commer TS3 with 5 speed crash box, a wonderful truck to drive except for the lack of engine braking due to the 2 stroke supercharged engine having rather less compression than when built!
Old Middlesbrough Corporation Transport and noticed it was the "M" Bus. All Boro buses used letters. My locals were N and the Circular routeY & Z. Stockton Corporation also used numbers so the Joint bus between M'bro and Stockton was the 0 or O Bus. When the Council Buses merged United (National) had to add an extra number so they went to 3 numbers. The local United 63 became 263. The new Bus Company had to mix Green (Stockton) with Blue (Boro) and so we had the first Turquoise Buses, as TMT.
I used to travel on one of these Lolines when I was a child,we had a very low bridge near Patricroft railway station which required one of these buses to go to Gardner engines where a lot of people worked.
My 1947 VW has a crash box. Normal changing up a gear, double-de-clutch changing down. That with cable operated brakes and semaphore turn signals. Proper driving, not like today's buzz boxes which are so easy drive. Easy see to why drivers loved the Routemasters, power assisted steering and semi-automatic gear change. I've driven RTs, very heavy steering of couse, but pre-select gear change.
Absolutely wonderful , the reassuring beat of the engine AEC ? Gardner ? and I cant help but think of the Bond movie "Live and let die" with the bus chase and the sound of the engine .
Wow, blast from the past. I always wondered why buses would pull out and take an age to change gear. The sounds, the vibration, the smell - being a passenger was an event. I eventually got to drive buses using the semi-manual buses, much easier and much smoother. Then we had some newer automatics and I was for ever apologises to the passengers as the gear change was out of my control and passengers were thrown all over the place - much like today. Don't blame the drivers, blame the crap auto gear-changes. BTW, the 'new' bus was a Lynx. Great power and much quicker - but the passengers tumbled around like a pea in a drum. I began knocking it out of gear and cruising up to the stop.
The art is to move the stick into neutral and wait for the engine revs to die before putting it into the next gear , the modest driver said it was luck, not at all just a feel for the machine, now that is driving and he's a driver which not so long ago was a standard skill on heavy vehicles, today's drivers are an embarrassment to our profession.
If the engine revs are right the gears will just fall into mesh without any resistance with less force needed than a synchromesh gearbox, the driver demonstrated well, going down the box a rev in neutral to match the road speed of the next gear is needed which again is knowing your vehicle and taking a pride in being a skillfull professional driver.
@@paulwilson3083 You say today's drivers are an embarrassment to the profession? As a bus driver who is on his 17th year, one thing I know for a fact is that there is actually still competent and decent bus drivers in the industry. I'm not sticking up for them all as I also know there is bus drivers out there who are all boots and no brains, but to generalise today's drivers as substandard is unfair?
@@johnhall4917 Hello John, on reflection my wording wasn’t appropriate to what I was trying to say, I owned buses and lorries with a similar drive lines to the bus on the video, I carried on running them until I retired, I’ve had many drivers join me who hadn’t a clue how to get these vehicles along but after being shown and have an understanding of how the drive line works they turned out to be high class exceptional drivers, unfortunately the vehicles available today with there semi or auto boxes and high revving engines have lowered drivers standards which of course modern drivers haven’t the choice anymore, when Volvo and scania lorries came into this country in the late sixties early seventies you could literally see heavy vehicles skills falling as me and many other hauliers commentated at the time, I’m sorry about the essay John but I hope it helps to explain my earlier remarks.
When really familiar with a crash gear box vehicle, i.e. Speed and sound of engine revs., the need to use the clutch each gear change is not necessary just for moving off.
This one in particular has some longstanding issues, and with a now completely unique and unobtainable gearbox - it is best driven in this manner in order to protect the fragile Transmission.
It looks more like a Bristol than a Dennis, maybe some arrangement. Gearbox is constant mesh, not crash. Some drivers made them crash but not this man, he has a ear and timing for engine revs, would have liked to hear him changing down. 6LW 112 BHP at 1700rpm 340 lbs ft torque at 1000/ 1100rpm. British industry and unions slow to move with the times and died away.
@@MrHarleyoldfart any non syncromesh gearbox could be crash changed or clean changed depending on the skill of the driver. Crash is a slang name for such as a constant mesh box that could be crashed when making a bad change. The modern automatic box's are constant mesh electric computer changed along with clutch control putting it in simple terms. Constant mesh box is the lightest, easily changed box depending on driver skill.
@@billalbion So, there is no difference between a 'crash box' and a constant mesh box as it's the same thing, they're just called crash boxes 'cos lots of drivers can't deal with them and 'crash' the gears.
In a constant mesh gearbox, the gears are in mesh permanently and you select them by locking them to the gearbox shaft via driving dogs. A crash box could be a constant mesh or a sliding gear type. Just no assistance to synchronise the gear speeds
If you want to change down all the gears just to come to a stop it’s just pointless, if the road had have been clear just a blip on the throttle while still moving in neutral and select the required gear without fuss, easy, you soon learn how to make life easier when driving them.
@@paulcharlwood440 Hello Paul, I quite agree, the way he drove was an every day thing on heavy vehicles, you drove them to save yourself as much work as possible as I mentioned in my earlier comment about tapping it out of gear rather than going right down the box just to come to a stand, the standard of driving dropped dramatically when the synchromesh boxes started to appear, personally I found crash boxes easier as there were no resistance of synchro cones to push through .
@@paulwilson3083 Yes, thats right., I knock my old truck out of cog, and drop it back again when the coast is clear. AEC box, linked to a 7.7. I only commented as It doesn't matter what you put online, there is always a "Dung Hill Rooster" crowing about some minor point. Shame I cant watch Mr Hawkins dive.
@@paulcharlwood440 Hello again Paul, your like me, I’ve done countless miles in silent overdrive it used to give the ears a rest too, my first lorry was an AEC with the later 505 their gearboxes were similar to the David Brown as in they went into gear with no resistance, it gave you more pride in your driving to making a change without catching the gears, harder but happier days, all the best Paul.
Crumbs MOGODON MOTORING OR WHAT!!! Dennis could never make a decent rorty motor. Same engine Gardner 6LW in a Bristol KSW with five speed Bristol Box oh Wow, makes the 6LW sit up and beg,.Dreary Dennis sounds like an ERF LV just too quiet,my old Hoover washing machine is far noisier during the spin cycle.
Dennis didn't really make this, it's a gardner powered Bristol Lodekka make under licence to get past government restrictions placed on Bristol. It even has ECW bodywork with a different radiator.
I know ,in the late 1950,s Dennis acquired a licence to manufacture the Bristol LD FS ,and later FLF in order to bypass restrictions imposed by the British Transport Commission on Bristol chassis for sale to BET operators. Dennis supplied the gearboxes and front axles, engines sourced from AEC Gardner and Leyland, early chassis came in kit form from Bristols Chatsworth Road Factory until Dennis bought the tooling to manufacture the parts at their Guildford Factory. Compared to a pure Bristol LD with a sweet sounding AVW and musical gearbox, I stand by what it say the Loline is a sleeping pill on wheels. @@Grid56
