Crazy Minotaur Game AGAIN - World of Warships 

The conversation in this video reminds me of when I had to explain to a person playing a T10 BB on how I was able to "accurately" shoot him during a cyclone eventhough I was outside of spotting range in WOWS. The guy told me that he blew through the lower tiers so fast (idk how he did that) that he was still learning all of the mechanics. Eventhough he was playing max tier (at that time), he still didn't fully understand the cyclone spotting mechanics. I had to sit there an type him a paragraph after the match was over XDXD good times

To give you a bit of context, we were talking about games and how difficult they are to learn, get good at, how simple or complex they are, how many different things you have to know/learn before you can play at all/properly. If you want to have a chance of talking to me live pls drop a follow here www.twitch.tv/flambass or you can join discord and talk any time here discord.gg/flambass P.s. I totally didn't prepare this video the night before and forgot to schedule it to go live on time, nope

You can say the only thing hard about chess is the other players. It's true that it's not the maps, or the rules, or unit stats. Then there's tic-tac-toe, where there's no space for the players to be hard. It's arguable that what makes a game hard is that space it creates for player skill. Winning at a slot machine doesn't happen very often but it isn't hard.

My 2 cents on that, WG is trying to make WOWs closer to other easy to learn FPS by putting in ship classes that don't require learning the game as much, specifically subs and CVs. This is to make WOWs marketable to the garden variety gamer who has very little patience in learning armor angles, gun calibers, positioning, etc.

It's actually really sad how newb-unfriendly this game has become. Aside from simply having a lot of different systems and mechanics to learn, you also have to learn the capabilities of hundreds of ships to know how to play against them. Add on to that the fact that balance is totally out of wack with many premiums being grossly OP, and the fact that mid tiers are up tiered almost all the time, the new player experience really requires an insane amount of patience. I miss the days, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, where matches were often very close and decided in the last couple of minutes. Now, the majority of games I've seen are all blowouts that are decided within the first five minutes because there are so many people making mistakes.

Dev struck the Thunderer with that torp run at 15:20

I think determining the difficulty of a game needs to divided into different areas, and I think you touched on it. The rules and core concepts of WOWS are fairly easy (Reduce the enemy ships to 0 or reach 1000 points). I would say up to tier 4 (maybe 5) you only need the basic mechanics (piloting, shooting, and positioning). Up to that point it is a very easy game and would be fairly enjoyable as a casual game if CV's didn't exist. Its everything tier 5 and up that makes WOWS a difficult game (IMO). You start adding in more cooldowns which will vary in value by ship and/tier, the ships start to diverge and have meaningful characteristics, you are facing different tiers with different capabilities. The relationship between armor and shell caliber/type becomes extremely important. "Oh look and broadsiding cruiser, yummy. Wait, 5 overpens?" On top of that is all the out of game stuff, resources, ship purchases, upgrades, captain skills, flags, camos, events, the UI in general. IMO, a fair assessment of WOWS is that it is an easy game to get into that gets progressively harder as you increase the tier.

Oh man that sub 😂... Pops up next to one of the highest DPM ships in the game, and barely takes a scratch 🤦‍♂️

I like the chess comparison, he’s saying chess like WoWS is easy to learn, but winning is a different kettle of fish.

I think the main difference between the games he calls "easy to learn" and ships is the matchmaking system. Yes, you can load up dota pick a hero and cast some spells. Then you are a 10 mmr herald. You can do the same in counterstrike. Welcome to silver one. Where trackball players meet mouth breathers. But that doesn't mean ships is harder to learn. It's just shit for new players and people who want to play a bit after work and not watch tutorials and read guides. The better you get at any of those games, the more you learn about them.

16:34 Is that an oil-spill I can see>

I just started playing... WAY different than most games, whole different learning curve. You have to get good at maneuvering the ship and operating it. Super hard

0:47 that’s basically every game ever 😂

if you would have payed attention to the game instead of looking at the other monitors you would have seen the oil slick to the right when you were chasing the DD at the end of the game.

flambino! hope you’re going well, keep up the great content!

what you were trying to explain is skill floor and skill ceiling skill floor is how much you need to know about the game to even play it in the first place. Most fps have low skill floors and they are good esports for that reason you dont need to understand much about the game or anything at all since its so basic you pick up the game and learn it in the first few matches, you have the basics but are you good at the game? no Skill ceiling meanwhile is the peak performance how good you can be at the game or how good the game allows you to be. Fps games have low skill floors but huge skill ceiling since reaction time, aim and weapon mastery matter. Ship game meanwhile has a lot of theory behind it that someone who never played the game wont understand so its high skill floor put someone who never played call of duty before a game and they will have a vague idea of whats going on put someone before a ship game match and they wont understand much. Skill floor in ships is knowing armor, shell ballistics (some shells are irritating to hit at ranges), angling, pushing there is so much theory that in many other games would be advanced stuff you dont need to succeed but to be the best of the best meanwhile in wows you need to know this for basic level of gameplay even positioning is absurdly hard to master since ships are slow and maps are huge. Its not a reaction based game you dont need lightning reflexes or some crazy apm but you need to really know what you are doing especially in a dd or cruiser where the best thing to do changes every 10 seconds, while bbs suffer a lot from them being slow so positioning is absolutely the key.

finally you used the depth charges

I have watched DayZ too, it seems like both talent and knowledge are involved. And funny people interactions too.

The infinite number of gimmicks and balance defying ships they have added have made the skill curve steeper and steeper. And at the same time they have made it easier and easier for people to skip the low tiers. End result: maximum potate floundering in the shallow gene pool at the base of the skill curve.

To be fair, WoWs used to be a challenging, difficult to master and fun game. Now you just play a CV and you don't really need to learn anything about any other ship or angles or positioning or armour areas or ranges or anything - not even the enemy AA capabilities since you still going to get all your damage off. The only thing you need to 'learn' to 'be good' with CV is occasionally glancing at the minimap to know when you can hide behind an island closer to the action and direction to fly your planes so they spot a bunch of stuff on the way to your target.

I honestly wish playing Dota was as easy as you're making it sound; tbh it has just as many things you need to learn as WoWs ,THAT ARE NOT EXPLAINED, in order to be a good player. Love you and your content Flambass!

that ship announcer voicepack though...

World of Warships is like golf. Time, place, and circumstances have to be read into your strategy.

i am interested int ehgame but i am so far from having a clue on how to get into it that it would be a massive catch up that i don't have time for

As a new player, aiming was a twat till I realised you could switch on the timer for shell flight making it alot easier,why it isn't on by default is weird. Easy game to pick up but so much to learn once you start getting higher level ie which ships have good AA or radar or long reloads etc

the reason why WOW is so hard for new people to learn is there is a very weak correlation between bad play and bad results; thanks in large part due to the heavy influence of RNG and huge amount of other potatoes playing. people can play this game (poorly) for thousands of matches and think they're rather good because they lucked into a kracken once in a while. Even the people who know they're not good, can struggle for hundreds or thousands of matches because again... the correlation between bad play and bad results isn't particularly obvious... furthermore the correlation between good play and good results isn't obvious either. without clear and obvious feedback when a good play is rewarded or a bad play is punished people learn very very slowly.

Mino vs De moine? Which one to grind?

Most things in gaming are easy to learn, hard to master. Not often you find games that are hard to learn and hard to master. Dota, League and WoWs are all similar in what makes them difficult, it's knowledge, actually understanding the mechanics, items, champions, ships etc that make those games hard to master. Anyone can learn that if they have the patience to learn it. I love games like Starcraft 2, very easy to learn how to play, the units and their counters etc, far easier than learning all the Champions and items in Dota and LoL for example. What is actually so hard, that 99.9% of the player base will never get good at is actually moving units, building etc. That is literally something you can only train so far and get so good at, and how good you get was decided at birth lol. FPS games fall into this category, you can only get so good.

Yeah, played a little on my bro account recently: partial reason for my bad aim is his bad rig (low FPS and high ping), but mainly I even dared to shoot at stationary targets or below 8km (in tiers 4-6), never had a clue if the thing I aim at has armour or no, will I pen it or no, can I outgun it or no etc. Its absurdly complicated game for its low quality.

For someone who is not a good player, the matchmaking at the moment seems to be off. Lemming trains all over the place. Then you get some people message you and tell you to uninstall the game if you have a bad game. Now it seems to be a mass of torps, HE spam and OP CVs. A hard game to play at the moment.

Sorry Flambass but WOWS is extremally ease game to learn how to play. Just 4 basic keys (WSAD), shift to get into binocular mode and left mouse button to shoot. Where is the difficulty in learning how to play?

Texas hold-em, very easy to learn, very expensive to master

The invite code isn't working for me :(

I have to ask, what is that damn commander

Are dds immune to rpf wth theres no way the dd was closer than sub

16:54 on the right side you can see the oil dmg thing from the sub. Funny that the Perk from Flambass don't show the Sub whens underwater, its just seems to show the nearest enemy over the waterline. I don't understand why Wargaming just say that nothing can spot the subs while they underwater, doesn't make sense. If you take a Perk that says, shows you the nearest enemy. Why the hack it don't shows you the nearest Sub also? ^^

I repeat myself but you know, you should try an RTS game such as Homeworld : desert of Kharak. The multiplayer mode can become really hellish.

Having never played Dota, just some LOL (maining jungle) i dont agree that ships is a more difficult game, i consider myself slightly avobe average at wows and when you master a couple concepts for each archetype of ship you pretty much can do well on any match. Being good in Wows id say relies more on game feel, experience and basic knowledge than for example League. My ships credentials if you want to roast me is Orak_Gamer on EU

sub was trying to do the peak a boo ram

Funny how other people cant understand that being good at a game and learning how to play the game are completly different.

remember when Cleveland was Tier 6?

Who is that crazy screaming captain you have on the mino?

Memetaur

Imagine strafing and turning and league of legends making you autobounce projectiles. Nidalee spear max range? Nope I was facing at 45 degrees, bounced away.

Yeah, it’s not an easy game. You have to learn all the different armor schemes, which ships have torpedoes and radars and which don’t, spawn layouts. You have to learn how to aim/lead targets. When to push, when to find cover. There’s also to fun part of trying to figure WtF your teammates are going to do. There are countless little things that you have to know to just be an average player.

thunderer was the dev.

Loved counter strike, and when peeps accuse you of hacking because you knew they was behind the box.. well the thousand other player's before you might have given it away, or the one shot I put thru the box and if heard an ooompf of it hitting someone, knew you was there... Or twitching and getting HS constantly can't be experience it has to be a hack right :p

i say difficulty of a game depends on players play it -- if a lot are not good then its an EZ game/annoying/boring -- if a lot of players are good then its a hard game/exciting/fun

Flambass you should try rust if you like games that take a lot of time to learn

Should've played the original DayZ mod for Arma 2.

Coming from a veteran CSGO and Dota 2 player, WOWs is literally a game for the kindergarten. I like Flambass but this level of ignorance just blows my mind. In CSGO you need to remember the different flash and smoke angles, as well as the spray pattern for different guns. As for Data 2 lmao this is easily the hardest game to get into. The sheer number of heroes, item choices, skill interactions and general mechanics is just insane. WOWs players pride themselves of being able to read maps, just try map reading in Data lmao. If Data is 100 in terms of skill level, WOWs is literally 5.

I love how like 95% of the showcase videos are matches either with no CV present, or Flambass playing AS the CV. what does that say about the game.

pewww pewwww....dakka dakka dakka dakka pewww pewwwwww.....Just had to do that...

WoWs is easy to learn and get into imo. Im not saying its easy to master, it takes time and game knowledge. But i have to say mastering WoWs is something of a waste of time if you don't play it for content or as a job. And that is because, NO matter how good you are and no matter how much you know about the game. Maybe you know how much you have to be angled to ricochet incoming shells, maybe you know about the yamato cheek weakpoint or the Montana citardel outside the hull. All of this is worth nothing if you get screwed by RNG with a Detonation, simple dumb enemys that still cita you from an impossible angle because the game is broken itself. You do everything right but you just overpen no matter what you do or your shells fly all over the place but not into target. Your teammates are a simple letdown and throw. And even if you have the perfect luck and everything just works out. If a CV picks you.. Your game just got very unfun and most likely you are in port soon.

What to sum it up, 2 battleships that have torps both ram each other, that just sums up how smart wows player base is...........

Mandatory youtube engagement comment.

My win rate is around 46 percent my last Montana game ended with me dying with dealing 12k damage... Me thinks flambass is talking about me lol

gg no CV Chat is so cringe I cannot listen to this 😂

I think everything requires a lot of theory if you want to play or do that thing ultra good, maybe not at the beginning, but to be pro you better know some tactics and have some strategical thinking about that game/sport/anything

The complexity of this game is absurd. Just look at the tech tree and then remember there are an equal or greater number of premium ships. Ideally you should have a moderate to excellent understanding of the capabilities of each tier 6, 7, 8 9, 10 and Supership of each nation if you want to play ranked. At the very least know the characteristics of each tech tree and popular or powerful (but rarer) premiums like Belfast. For random you can always just focus on top tier if you want. But either way it is really an incredible amount of data to get in your head that is something of a never-ending work in progress for everyone who plays since they don't stop adding ships.

WoWs is not easy. Learning gun calibres, penetrations, armor models, overmatch angles, torpedo damage, speeds, and range, weakspots of ships, for every ship in the game is not easy. I've played tanks for a few years on and off and I still don't know every tank like that.

like #777 this monkey's gone to heaven ;-)

Wows is pretty easy. Sit behind island, spam, repeat. Go dark if getting shot. The game doesn't reward skill.

Go is a hard game

I am a potato dead WoWs player with a 46% win rate. I taught my son chess and he started to beat me after 1 week playing

lmao this guy is on some good copium lol

Just dodge !!! simples.

it is not about how well you played, it is about how badly enemy played

"Easy game" is quite a stupid statement. "Easy to learn, hard to master" Now that's a much better statement. Many games are easy to learn, and that's how it should be. Also many games are hard to master, just like it should be.

What about world of warcraft 👀

I really, seriously and deeply believe that removing ramming from the game will do way more good than bad. Not gonna happen though because it's the only way a potato can do some damage...Drive bys, a fun and skill dependent aspect of the game has become almost impossible...

You are confusing ease of use vs easy game. Just because something has a complex scheme doesn’t mean the actual game is hard, and vice versa. As a designer the goal is to not have controls be a barrier - like chess, and the difficulty comes in layers of expertise.

hello my friend why u jion me i like gmes ok

Of course you learn how to aim, the game does not take into account the motion of your own ship!

Sorry Flambass but Dota 2 is probably one of the most difficult game in existence. Certainly more difficult than WoWs. Most games are difficult to master though.

play war thunder pls

dota is easy - okay

Ahh tarkov. Deff not a easy game to master. Not really even Easy to learn. A lot going on and the game doesn’t teach you anything lol.

Your argument makes little sense. Warships is like any other game. Point and shoot. If that's makes you a 40% then you at least you know how to play the game right ? You winning 40% of the time right ? Like you said about cod and battlefield just because you aren't good doesn't mean you don't know how to play right ? Therefore by your own logic wow is an easy game

I think you got lost in your own arguments, i dont think that ships are particularly hard game to learn how to steer the ship and fire.. being good at ships require you to understand the game mechanics like how armor works, what ammo use at which situation, which ship can have which equipment, who can have radar, who can have hydro, how smoke works etc and most importantly the map awareness, anticipating enemy moves and position... That is similar to DOTA or LoL... as you said, you can learn controls in a no time, but being good at requires the understanding of each character skills, how to counter some stuff and so on.... To me games like WoWS, WoT, etc are just a slower version of other MOBA games like LoL, DOTA or Counter Strike... its all same stuff... instead of attack spell or rifle you just got a guns and torpedoes... Broken down to basics I think that DOTA/LoL are equally demanding on mechanics/game stuff knowledge as WoWS - the difference is, that in WoWS you got a lot more time to make most of your decisions, but in the other mentioned games most of the decisions have to be made in split second.

This man clearly has never played cs before...its one of the hardest if not THE hardest FPS to learn. You can't just "See person shoot person" you have to put hundres of hours into it just to be even competent. He's right, I can load up battlefield or call of duty and "see person shoot person" but any sane person cannot put cs in that category.

flambino clearly never played cs ^_^ looks easy when you watch someone else

Win rates are over rated. Play and have fun, screw all the rest of the bs.